Not Every Product is a Winner (should we keep it?) 

I dont feel like book storage on the table is a problem that NEEDS to be solved. Books stack. Peoople have book shelves. There's already storage being planned for the chairs. Kill it

That should be made into the chairs, not something to hang off the table. Make it lean out to put items in or out, but can be pushed in to be flush with the outside edge of the legs. It would also be much less hardware necessary than using those chair drawers you were messing with a while back. Actually, make it a chair addon, and one that can be mounted left or right or a pair of them left and right for the GM who has too many books. Possible front mount would be good too if it could be done.

Guys, from a gamer perspective with a medium table who’s playing games that take up the ENTIRE vault, what I’ve been looking for is a PLATFORM to place/hold books. I have the player desk and I don’t like using it because I’m sitting so far back from the center of the vault that I need to get up off the chair every time I reach in. What I want is a platform that’s half the size of the player desk that I can have right beside me that locks into the rail over top. Bonus points if you can make it so it sits in the corner. That way with a full house it’s not taking up a “player chair spot”.

Kill it. Ed needs to focus on products that are actually innovative. I can just stack my books on the table.

The editing in this episode had me in tears. Absolutely hilarious. 5/5 star wipes.

Make it wider instead of taller, that would reduce the leverage, and allow you to display the books with their spine up.

I always store my books resting against my chair leg. A book holster as a chair arm attachment would be much more useful than a sharp block of wood I’ll hit my knee on attached to the table

The personalities of wyrmwood make the show, but the editing MAKES the show. Perfect comedic timing in every episode.

With the current design I'd say kill it. It could damage the table, takes up too much room, and looks like something I'd find at my grandparents house. I like the idea from another comment to build it into the chair as that could have use for both the DM and player and free up more table real estate.

The main issue you’re having is that you’ve got something relatively large and heavy with a balance point far away from its connection point. If you can bring the balance point directly below (or close to directly below) the connection point it’ll be much more stable. One option would be to make it slimmer. That would lessen the negatives but mean less storage. The other would be to have it hang directly below the rail with the book rails angled appropriately for access. Another approach would be to have a secondary mounting connection for stability (probably by attaching to one of the legs, but that will almost certainly look ugly). A final option would be to attach it to the GM’s chair. That might be the easiest solution.

Reading a couple of comments below gave me an idea. A lot of people bring other tables, chairs, etc. adjacent to the game table so that they have extra room to spread out their stuff next to them while they GM. What if you designed a stand-alone product (like a really nice folding table/TV tray). Give it the Wyrmwood quality treatment, but then give it a feature that interacts with the magnetic rail system. Then when people put it next to an MGT at dining table height, you could lock the corners together to stabilize the TV tray. Maybe when the TV trays are used by themselves, this same feature could also lock them together for added stability. This would be an innovative feature that I have not seen on the market before that would be a draw for gamers and MGT owners, but also a potential product for the general public.

When I'm DMing, I use two TV trays on both sides of my office-style chair, creating a U-shape around myself to store my books, DM Binder, minis, and such. A side table that attaches to the mag rail on one side with legs on the other and innovative storage solutions below the topper-like surface would be aesthetically pleasing alternative to TV trays.

Those drawers definitely want some kind of metal bottom, if possible. If people want to use it to transport Minis, which are fragile, they could have the bottoms magnetized and then they'll stay relatively secure in the tower. One could probably mock that up on their own (especially given you wouldn't be ruining nice wood in the process), but it'd be nice to not have to.

Classic product that asks more questions than it answers.

As a dm, I can pretty much guarantee I wouldn't ever pay money for something like this. I can easily stack my books or pull over a small end table to stack my books if I need more space. This solves a problem that doesn't exist

The biggest issue I see with the book holder is that it will take up a lot of leg space.

Kill it now. I love when a company is willing to try. Then willing to fail and when we get to failure they fail fast and move on. Something’s just don’t work out

Fuck me man, you guys are killing it with the editing lately! 5:48 had me dying hahaha

I actually love it. No need to have the books on the table taking space when you don't need them. This keeps them a hand away.

of course Doug would like the missionary position equivalent of a doughnut

Two ideas to save the design: 1) Put foam or felt on the stopper piece that went underneath the railing, have it be designed to slot the book rack into the magnet rail first, and then put the stopper/dowel/magnet attaching piece in the back of it afterwards (this is more work for the user, but makes it not a scraping/tightness issue going in.) 2) Design it to go up and over like you did there, but instead of adding knobs to clamp also make that a stopper attachment. The extra wood for the wrap up and over part gets made the same so it can hold pencils and whatnot, and then a magnet hits the inner rail and either a stopper/dowel/magnet attaches it to the book rack.

Considering I've been suggesting just such a book module for the system for like almost 2 years, both on comments and in person, and Crazy Ed came to the same conclusion, I'm personally thrilled that it's now coming to life, and I hope it stays alive, because it certainly fulfills a need. I think you just need to iterate how it's going to connect to the table a bit more, same as you iterated the GM screen, and it'll be a mainstay to the point that you might just combo it with the screen.

Wyrmlife has become The Office, and I love it. Oh and, maple bar.

Kill it. You all tried to make it work, and the math just isn’t there… For all the people saying it should be a chair accessory, the high end chairs will have drawers and do the mass market chairs even have a rail anywhere other than the arm (even less leverage area)? It’s no longer worth investing resources into IMO and I really wanted to see it succeed.

Good content. Interesting to see the little failures mixed in with all the other successful products of Wyrmwood. I can see the appeal for a shelf if you're using books but as a tablet player, I say kill the shelf. Now if Wyrmwood ever made a bookshelf that had modular shelving and magnetic storage for the table and board game accessories ...now we're talking

I would make it a Chair accessory. I think it would work better on the side of a chair

The first review of this product last week hit the nail on the head for me when Doug said it was "dentist office-y". I'm not a DM so probably not your primary target audience, but I say kill it or do a single run of it based off pre-orders on the website. I don't know how much demand there is for this, and it's not really innovative (to channel my inner Jason).

The first method seems better overall. I think Doug is onto something with adding felt though. Tighten up the gap in the back and give it a felt strip where it contacts the side of the curtain and felt on top of the wedge that prevents it from rocking. The felt shouldn't damage the finish and it allows it to stay usable with the topper on. I think they underestimate the usability of having it work with the topper on for things like doing session prep where I WANT a regular table top, but would also benefit from having my books and paper right there.

That shot of Ed with the VO "FUCK" just killed me.

Maybe make the book rack a corner piece, so it can rest against a table leg to support it, which moves the pivot point to the bottom of the rack.

kill it. if you have books, set them on the *table*. what a concept. When you're done, put them in a *bookshelf* :O this feels like reinventing the wheel.

A finger joint would increase the sheer strength of the top joint. Might be worth trying.

The book hangars look good. The 1 fin design works. Stressing over the gap feels like an artist overthinking the design. I do think that they'd be even better integrating to the chairs. Another way to go would be to make a caddy. Put feet on the bottom and a handle on top. Then the back could have a holder for map or art display with the clear acrylic panels. Or something like that (mag friendly dry erase board would be an option). On the tower drawers, you could work a thin sheet of steel into the bottom of the trays. This would allow integration into mag systems (magnets on the bottom of figures) that people already use.

It feels like something you'd hit your knee on if you forgot it was there or got super excited when you throw the big baddy miniature on the table. With the weight of the wood and all the books you're guaranteeing a break.

A wise man named O'Hare once said: "Let it die, let it die. Let it shrivel up and-- Come on, who's with me, huh?"

If you really want stability and to make these work why not just do them as a corner piece to wrap around the table leg and still attach to the mag rail, so both DM and players have access to a single side of a right angle system. On a six man table having one on each corner would give every player and DM access to some additional book storage.

Could always make the storage out of leather with just a single piece of wood inserting into the inside rail and the leather draping over the rail.

My sides are killing me. I’m laughing so hard LOL this editing is genius

At 5:35 - Doug: "What do you guys think?" Silence, deer in the headlights look; nobody wants to say they hate it to The Boss. (Editing for spin?) Needs more recursion designing and clearer end goal. The concept is interesting but I have a bookcase behind my seat when I DM that gives me access to all my 3.5 and 5 D&D books and minis (many of them not all). This gives me maximum room at the end of the table. When I get my MGT, that is (making do with 6' folding tables in the interim). Question: Has anyone asked for this? Is there a reasonable need for this product concept? Enquiring minds want to know!

I'll echo others in agreement with it being changed to an eventual chair accessory. I usually only have 1 book with me at the table with the others on my shelf nearby, so while getting that 1 book out of the way would be nice, it's also an issue pretty low on my list.

As Doug said "if the idea isn't good enough kill it" if you like the idea then show it and it's problems to Jason. If Jason likes the idea it will bug him until he finds a solution

It has to hang from below the weight bearing spot...right under the rail, like a coat-hanger. The reason the problem exists is because its hanging with weight "away" from the table.

If I had the room I would absolutely use my books

2 things: who would ACTUALLY use this (if you have books or tablets, they are always out, not stored) and 2 it reminds me of the magazine holders that you put in your bathroom

I’m going to mess this up since I’m not a woodworker so I apologize. A standard sheet of paper is 8 1/2 x 11. You’re building the slots so they fit the 8 1/2 as the width and the 11 as the height. What if you flip it so the 11 is the width and the 8 1/2 is the height? Then you wouldn’t have leverage issues. (Yes I know books have different dimensions, but I was just trying to come up with an example that was understandable). Just a thought. I think the storage idea is actually really cool.

It looks like a magazine/newspaper rack you'd find at your grandparents.

A tip - felt on the bottom of the 3d-printed drawers. Protects the minis if they fall over, doesn't clatter so loud when in use.

I wouldn’t do the hanging table magazine rack. I’d rather have a small rack or bookcase on casters, but without gaps between slats. I have a mix of hard and soft cover GM books. The soft covers are going to catch those slats. Bookcases, in general, would be nice. If you want a small accessory, though, what about a book holder? Something I put a book on to hold it open at the section needed… and it goes behind the GM screen because I’m not giving away what module I’m using (yet).

the edit of blank faces is brilliant!!

Not gonna lie. I felt vindicated when I first glanced at the design and immediately thought, this is going to be the player desk 1.0 and lever itself right out of the accessories slot, and lo and behold... While the accessories slot in the table design is elegant in many ways, it is quite restrictive in terms of design, and potentially in terms of weight bearing. Clearly, you could design this book holder much like the current player desk, and I think it would work, but I don't think I would buy it. I wouldn't want it to consume arm rail space, prevent the use of a flush game deck, be incompatible with toppers, generally look a little awkward, etc. Frankly, I could just stack books on a player's desk if I was that desperate for space.

Injection Mold Pro Tip! Don't forget about adding draft angle to pull the plastic out of the mold, especially if you want the plastic to be textured (so its not shiny like a cheap-looking toy). 3 degrees of draft is about the minimum you need to get a half-decent texture. 1 degree if you are okay with it being shiny.

Thought One: rotate the product 90 degrees, the problem seems to be in the weight distribution. Thought Two: put magnetic rails on the chairs, like the armrests or where the legs are. People do the same thing with living room chairs and the back of the chair/armrest organizers. You could even put rails underneath the seat of a chair, allowing for more attachment options. I think it would work best on the left and right sides. Disclaimer: I’m not a designer or a woodworker, I’m just calling it as I see it.

The width needed to hold books hung on narrow end of table would be really annoying for a gm to sit next to, would be constantly banging against them. Maybe a wheeled side table they can pull out next to them would be better to solve this particular issue about on hand storage for books?

It may be quite the ask but would it at all be possible to have something like the open shelves of the sit/stand for modular game table? Cause that would serve the purpose of the "magazine" rack but possibly put less strain on the table.

I will never use web-based anything for my games. I don't want to rely on something that has the potential to just shut off and lock me out of my purchases. The only way anyone can take my books is at gunpoint, and with this I have a solid option to beat them over the head with before they can take my books.

I would consider where the center of mass and the forces present. Why is the accessory pivoting? If you keep the center of mass directly below the connector, the forces applied from the accessory will go straight downwards and not pivot. It should not hang at the end of the table but hang beneath the connector. You should also consider where the center of mass is when you start adding books. The weakest part that would need to be reinforced is the accessories connector. You would be putting a lot of strain on a small piece that could easily fail.

Put the magnet clip only towards the middle and leave space for it to slide to the edge of the table, using the table legs to support it down lower. More surface area contact for stabilizing it. Designed only for the far corners of the table.

Injection molding that drawer could prove challenging depending on the wall thickness and how the walls attach to the bottom. You'll need a pre colored plastic to avoid color differences from batch to batch. You'll also need to consider uv resistance for color fading or it becoming brittle. - an injection molding processor.

A piece of wood that fits into the grove is better than that book storage. I can stack books on a flat surface... and still have a flat surface that can be used for other things as well as opposed to just an expensive magazine rack.

I’ve just been standing my books up on the floor, leaning on the chair.

This should be a fabric bag with rigid mounting points. That way you get rid of the pivot problem and reclaim leg space when the holder is empty.

Earl Grey Tea traditional donut (not cake). I can see why the shelving is an issue, especially with some of those heavier books. But I think there is an opportunity here that was missed. Right now you are using the channel with the magnet, and doing all your testing with that directly. What about using the table leg as the stabilizer. It can sit on the right or left corner of the table, in channel, and at the bottom there is a brace to touch the leg (with some felt on the end to prevent scratching).

Kill the book box! Have Ed blow it up. While I’m DM’ing if I have to reference a book… I just get up… go to my shelf pull it off the shelf *gasps*… don’t need no stinking box… Oh, and Boston Cream for the win!

5:49 Laughed my ass off at this editing

'Twas a time when leaving that little drawer around would result in it becoming an ashtray, by someone other than the owner.

Horizontal shelf under the chair seat.

I'm a huge fan of modular storage; especially as a DM. It always seems like I don't have enough surface or shelf space to store things while I'm playing. However, I don't think that I would utilize this in the way it's been presented (for the table). I do like Reyn's idea of having it be a part of chairs. I can see players using it that way.

That cracked beam above Doug's head looks like it could be a problem.

They should have the book shelf connection on the side of chair like you would have at high school to the side

They get the plugs from the back of your head Doug lol

It's probably not worth manufacturing, but the answer is having solid wood wrap around the top and hook under without knobs or whatever Ed was talking about by using a hinge along the top that requires you to lift the book area to remove it.

HUGE WIN ON THE DRAWERS!!! Please KEEP the Book box, as it will free up table space which can be limited by only having the railings, i.e. if im playing a boardgame and want the rules nearby, they dont have to go on *another* table or *another* space, its right there!! super useful for DMs as discussed, but really can be applied to games and other small needs, like you see in the tablets. Doug is being too pushy that there is a gap on Ed's solution with the tab underneath the table to stabilize. Also please "playtest" with actual RPG books, (maybe not *just D&D as there are *hundreds* out there).

Vic Berger demands royalties for this editing

I could be wrong, but I feel like there isn’t a hole in the market for this product. Books stack, in fact, we like our book stacks, our emotional support book stacks. To have them just on a table/tray attachment is just as effective.

I love that they debate the product while it's literally hanging on the wall behind them

I say kill it. It looks like something you'd see in a doctor's office back in the 90s, and I don't think that's what you want with your high end gaming table.

I don't mind the idea of injection moulding drawers for the storage tower. Its going to be covered anyways and keeping the cost down will help me afford it :) I am excited for the final product!

Any donut is a good donut. 🍩

*_Wow, this channel was a blast from the past. You see, YT has been steadily un-subscribing me to soon 100 channels the past year(s). Then it recommends a channel it has un-subscribed me from, like yours. I have re-subscribed._* *_Now, i have questions, that I think will get drowned in the other 450 comments:_* *_Do you make any reading furniture for (comic book) Omnibus? Like a Marvel Omnibus._* *_Have you made a hm, not sure what it's called, but it's like a carousel of books, it's from the middle ages. It is a bit large, I'd guess 4feet in diameter. You can have several books open, like tabs in Chrome, and rotate the carousel as you read/look up something. It would take some skill to make this._*

For the plastic drawers, I wonder if it's possible to get them to be less monochromatic? Like, mostly a walnut brown with swirls of black that could give each piece an element of wood-like character. Almost certainly not enough time to pull that off that sort of development, though, if it's even possible.

THE WINDOWS NOISE! 🤣🤣🤣

Instead of this, I could be stacking my books on the Wrymwood bookcase. The one with storage for my books, minis, lighting and hidden storage. 👀👀

If that drawer model could be also sold as a file that people could buy I think alot of people would like it as well

I love having extra options but this item looks like something I haven’t seen since I sat on my grandparents couch.

Books go one shelves. Though I wouldn't say no to a compatible bookshelf to attach all the accessories to

Cut a notch in the sides of the connecting piece so it can be used against one of the table legs, which gives you the vertical support to keep it from racking. That said, it's not a very compelling item and I say kill it.

Not everything needs to hang off the side of the table. Just make a stand-alone magazine rack style thing that can hold the books and can just rest beside my chair on the floor

The rail version with small fin underneath was the best option (@5:04).

I want wooden drawers for the storage tower! Make them add-ons/stretch goals

I hope you have multi colored drawers, like neon green, cherry red, ocean blue, just get crazy with it, not just black.

Everyone just standing in silence 🤣!

Oh god, it's been a hot minute since the last d in a box joke. Still a beautiful insider... Or rather outsider

As a DM I have always hated how the books are just kinda in the way. I pull up a second chair and just stack them. Would love for the idea to work but I dunno if it will!

Maybe make them horizontal in stead of vertical, like the sit stand desk shelving. Then you can have storage for let's say 4 books and then a smaller shelf to store more minis, cause you can never have enough storage for minis.

Looks too bulky and would be in the way. Maybe make it attach to the corner and wrap the leg. Then you could felt the back where it touches the leg. Could even put a strap to latch it on so it doesn't wobble.

I would make the book/ tablet holder sideways to have the spine up. Leaves less material at the bottom and more on top to reduce the pivoting force

This feels more like a modular desk, coffee table, and chair (backside?) than a table accessory. With that said, the 'over the top' is... ewwww. The hang-down with the underside dorsal fin felt like a good idea. Add felt to the top of it, and see if the back of the unit can sit flush against the table with a felt strip for finish protection. If it fits the table, it should be interchangeable with the rest of the modular portfolio., IMHO.

As someone who both has recently found himself within reach of Wyrmwood products and likes books/magazines/printouts, I like the concept... books clutter GM space, even at a spacious table. My solution was to make the GM space similar to a writing desk... I'll see you folk at either Dragoncon 2022 or 23 (still deciding if I go).

Glazed Ring with a pot of chocolate pudding as a dipping sauce

Change it up from a table accessory to a chair one. Don't kill it, it's already a better product than the cutting board DM screens. Favorite donut: tie between a maple frosted and apple cinnamon filled.