@@Richard_L_Y It is. "The X ring has a smaller contact surface area" is what oddballperformance just said. He took a good, detailed, 9 minute explanation, and made it into an explanation that somebody who doesn't have the mechanical ability of changing out their front tire, can understand.
And X-Rings provide a better lubrication since it holds back more lube in the gaps of the X-Ring that contacts the friction surfaces. That is what I think a good reason to have a X-Ring chain.
Very helpful second time watching this video. I've used O-ring chin loved it for its quietness. Cant wait to try an X-ring next. Makes perfect sense. Thanks
My experience with o-ring chains is not good. They used to sell them as high end chains in the 70s. I have always ridden in all kinds of weather. What always happened with the o-ring chains I've had is that it wouldn't be long before they got kinks in them. I couldn't get lube to the spots where the kinks were because the o-ring.. I believe that water and other contaminants were sucked in, when the chain was hot and then hit cold water. So, the bike I bought back then came with o-ring chains on them, as if they were doing you a favor.They never lasted very long for me. Once they are kinked, they are trash. I always replaced them with a regular chain, which could atleast be cleaned lubed, so it did last longer. But, the maintenance on them was high. So for a long time I went with shaft and belt drives. A few years ago I bought a sportbike and put on an x-ring chain. It was amazing, no high maintenance and no kinking. I would have to credit the x-rings shape as to better sealing, one part of the x keeping out contaminants, the other side keeping grease in. The way I could tell is by how little chain adjustment was needed. My last bike was a ZX10R that I rode almost every day for 2 years. I think I had to adjust the chain 4 times. When I sold it at 10000 miles the chain was still serviceable. So in my opinion x-ring chains do last longer by far, plus they are cleaner.
"My experience with o-ring chains is not good. They used to sell them as high end chains in the 70s." - well that was the 70's - things get better as time goes on.
i run did vt2 x ring chains and they last about 60 hrs and the links are still ok the rolers wear through and brake of. no ring chain (did ert) lasts 15 to 20 hrs. i have also tried the vx series o ring chain and the links also held up til all the rollers had fallen off so it is hard to tell if the x ring beats the o ring or not...
Brilliant man love the videos thank you very much❤👀👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
This game of Tic-tac-toe looks very complicated but I am sure my RR will love to play... xD My wallet prefers the O and my bike will get the X. Great video! Thanks!
Matt is there any benefit in going down chain size to increase power? For example going from a 525 to a 520 chain? I've read claims made by people saying that going down a size can increase rwhp by approx 5hp. Sounds like bullshit to me but is there any truth in It? Surely the chain size is chosen at design/test stage of bike to be suitable to handle the stress put through It?
That's presumably down to removing accumulated shite from the rollers & lubricating them effectively. I've been using scottoilers on my bikes for years - and they definitely reduce wear & reduce the need for regular cleaning.
I’m getting it, I at first thought that X-rings would hold on to more lubricant where the O-ring would just have lubricant at it’s surface and the X could have it inside it X figure and because of that make the chain itself last longer because of better libricated friction surface
thank you for the very valuable informstion & awesome drawings! what do you think about Z ring vs X ring? I have KMC Z series 9 speed, should i switch to KMC X series for better performance?
ive always wondered ? the chain comes pre-greased. but as time goes on. does the grease stay put behind the seal through its lifetime. or is it slowly being replaced by your chain lube. hencefort doesnt it also being contaminated by dust slowly making its way in between, behind seals and into the rollers? "If" does the new applied lube replaced the old contaminated and fling of?
Sure there is O-ring and X-ring but you forgot the 3rd option... Dell-ring. Dell-ring chains come lubricated from factory with snake oil and promise to remain extremely slack regardless of how much you tighten or paid for it.
Are there any bikes that use an "automatic chain oiler" like a chainsaw? When I was young- my Friend had a Yamaha 250, that was 2 cycle- but it had a separate oil tank, and when you twisted the throttle- it would squirt oil into the charge stream. No pre mixing of fuel/oil required. Kind of a PITA if you forgot to fill BOTH tanks!
HUBBABUBBA DOOPYDOOP I don't think any came out of the factory with a chain oiler, though some bikes had fully enclosed chains submersed in oil. There are a few aftermarket chain oilers though, I'm not great with chain maintenance and I do a lot of miles so I bought a scottoiler and it's great
What's the best spray for x ring chain like d.i.d.? I had a quick look on google and it says it's best to use no lube because the x rings are already lubed so just keep them clean which is what I would ideally want, no grease on my new chain.
here - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Nl4CKAUvfU4.html and the follow-up here - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-agxlrQTrHV8.html
I use parafin oil (a.k.a. lamp oil) to clean the chain, and "bar and chain" chainsaw oil to lube the chain. Bar and chain oil is cheap; I use Walmart brand. I brush it on with a cheap 1" paint brush.
If it's all about performance (less resistance), how much improvement are we talking about? Is it even a factor? You might get more performance by filing a few ounces of metal off some other component. This needs to be quantified.
I think it's more about how long the seals last, as he said it depends on how long you decide you are keeping your bike and how many miles you are likely to do. That is why X-ring chains are sold as heavy duty chains.
It isn't and that's a good point - however in real word applications seperating mechanical load (force over time) seen as though the system is a contact system then force and surface area this is a pressure. With Coulomb's equations we just use force and usually this gives a close enough approximation, but surface area cannot be ignored - This is why dragster have wide tyres. Wiki - "Friction and contact area It is an empirical fact for many materials that F = μN, where F is the frictional force for sliding friction, μ is the coefficient of friction, and N is the normal force. There isn't a simple derivation for sliding friction's independence from area. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contact_area
You guys need to understand they have different types they make for different types of engines like if your engine is small you must use a type that is easier to pump you also need to use the stuff they tell you to use to flush your system before you put the waters coolant in
I thought the point of an x-ring chain was that you need two lips to keep the external water seperate from the internal grease - similar to a double-lip oil seal on a shaft. Supposedly with o-rings the water wicks under and draws the grease out leading to early failure. With an x-ring there is an (air?) gap in the middle seperating oil from water. Is there truth to this?
Can you make a video about the advantages and disadvantages of wave disc compared to regular brake discs? also why do they put dimples and grooves in brake discs?
Ewout Wielenga wavy discs may stay cleaner on a dirt bike, other than that there's no advantage. Drilled and grooved discs are for releasing gasses made by the brake pads, much less important now with modern materials
bro best description ever the drawings haha brilliant your great..... u are British version of me curse words and all {not on the drawings tho i cant draw for shit} and crazy i just started using vape to gonna try to quit smoking with it too hope its been working for you ya
hi Matt. 2006 yam yz250f. raced at Dezzi raceway in SA twice. all good. we decided to drop the back sprocket from 49 tooth to a 45 tooth. took bike for a spin in the neighborhood, developed a heat seize. oil and and coolant good. does the valve timing need to be adjusted?? after 1 hr bike started properly. no hassle. should we do the valve timing??? thanks mate. give me your cell number. i'll be a hit in SA.
Awesome channel! Zero BS and all the information. And ofc I have a question :) can I use X ring rivet link on my O ring chain (525 DID V8), rivet link is did 525VX.
A scottoiler not only lubricates but it keeps your chain clean and rust free. i've got one on my bandit 1200, my last chain adjustment was over 4000 miles ago and is still in spec (did x ring). The downside is that they do make a bit of a mess. As for extending chain and sprocket life, if you keep your chain clean and lubricated i don't see a scottoiler extending your chain life very much, I got it for the convenience as my bandit is used every day in all weathers and chain maintenance in pissing rain in the middle of winter wasn't high on my list of priorities, but if you only ride on weekends i don't see them being worthwhile.
+1 on the mess, got one on my sv650s. I use it daily as well, was never good with chain maintenance so in my case it was well worth it. I wouldn't buy one new but they come up used on ebay for around £30 quite often. When it comes to extending chain life I think they do help, no matter how ofter you oil and clean your chain, normal chain lube is thick and tacky and picks up grit which wears out your chain whereas a chain oiler uses thinner, non tacky oil which is constantly replaced (hence the mess)
My Scottoiler equipped ZZR1100 has done 45000 miles and still has the original EK chain and JT sprockets, it hardly ever needs adjustment and I can barely pull the chain off the rear sprocket at the 3 o'clock position. There's no hooking of the teeth and the chain is always clean and grit-free. Same on the mess but it's worth it.
Is there not an argument here that as well as there being less resistance and lower drag with the "x"ring, there is also the advantage of having not one, but two sealing surfaces. Granted that there is, overall, less sealing area but having two barriers against road crud has to be better and therefore longer lasting (theoretically).. I've had both types on my bikes over the years (as well as no rings at all!) and I couldn't really tell if there was more or less resistance in the chain that would affect my ride (other than longer service life...). however, I'm not a racer and there every tiny advantage helps..
So, your saying that if you want to drive a motorcycle for the X-Men, one should buy an X-Ring chain because the chain of this type is design by the X-Men, however, not by "O" men! Right!?😳
As long as the X ring maintains the seal for as long as the O ring chains do. It could go either way. A well designed X ring may last longer than an O ring. A poorly designed X ring may not last as long as an o ring.
How about cooking the chain in grease ? I'm a farmer and in winter we collect all chains from the machines, clean them and then cook them in special chain grease, a hard type of grease. My wife is not happy with it cos it stinks in the kitchen,but its only once a year. It makes the chain real smooth. The art is about at which temperature you take them out again, cos we want the outside cleaned but the grease must stay inside. Taking them out is not in the kitchen, its in the shop. A few trics to clean the outside,with air and stuf. We have no O rings in tha chains
out of most of you videos, I have not seen that silver can move on your work bench. is that a torch? every time I see you videos I look for that can and sure as shot it's there lol
It is frictional coefficient of oring rubber and the force, not the surface. You can use oring and not squash it and you will have less power loose on the chain drive but not very good seal. Xring can deform like scisors so you can reduce that squashing force and keep the chain sealed.
force applies to a surface area is pressure..... if what you're saying is true then how would a Nitrile O ring in an x shape reduce the coefficient of friction? I think you need to rethink your comment.
nitrous oxide: N2O Easy. An engine can only burn so much fuel (based on how much oxygen it has). By adding a dab of Nitrous oxide you are basically leaning out the engine (more air than is needed), so you can add more fuel for a bigger bang. The limit is only your stupidity. You WILL destroy at least one engine in your life if you ever get into nitrous. You can't really overdo it, until it melts.
x ring lasts longer because it has 4 seal points "than" 2 in side of pin, one keeps oil in and upperone dirt out, keeps oil better inside roller when chain gets wear
hello . I just saw a video that had a engine kind of like your 1stroke. it was a huge stationary engine. of 1000s of cubic inches. 18" bore x18" stroke. 2 cylinder. they called it a double acting. because it fired on both sides of the piston! looked like a 2-3" rod. through the cylinder head on both ends. maybe you can find more by searching double acting engines? if you are interested. it was 4 stroke I think.
O'ring or the X-ring chains are supposedly better than the older style chain, pre (O'ring) yes manufacturing tolerances may be better these days, but it's totally impossible to clean a modern chain & re-lube it effectively ... older style chains are a 1/3 of the price & 2/3's of the weight, they can be 100% de-greased & cleaned & 100% re-lubed ... a well looked after non O'ring chain will outlast any modern chain, tested this fact myself.
After 15 years i quit for a year and ended back on the smokes again, went to vaping this time and i've not smoked for nearly 3 years and have no intention or desire to go back this time, if you can do it good luck to you but vaping is nowhere near as bad for you as smoking, i feel much better. Anyway, any chance you could explain pro's and cons of standard 'O' rings V 'X' rings in different applications? please.
All I know is my cheap chain and sprocket has died after a few months even cleaned and oiled so this time Ill spend a bit more and get better stuff then some cheap Chinese stuff
NIce explanation but it seems theoretical. What is the actual difference in performance? 2 hp loss on a 100+ hp bike? 0.2 hp? Less? Or are people paying for the hype of a mostly theoretical difference that doesn't manifest outside of absolute top of the line performance, e.g. nitrogen in F1 car tires?
lol, I always laugh when people claim lost horsepower with o ring chain....I just think they need more horses...never had an issue. I'd rather have a negligible " loss" of HP than a chain unlubed in the peat/ mud/ sand/ clay that I ride in. gotta say an x or o ring lasts far longer in service and better sprocket wear than plain chain. power loss on my current 125 4 t Suz or 450 r Honda ....never noticed much...or dvx400 or ds650, or 350 warrior but I have noticed premature chain failure without x or o. but what would I know....only been riding sport quads and dirt bikes since 1980.....I learned what worked and what didn't.... aluminum sprocket s and non o ring is best suited for 1 race in the big leagues....not long term reliability
ok so it's just less drag on your engine useing x ring. more horsepower. be very minimal. useing high octaine 98 pump fuel will give you more horsepower.
Agree with the chain comment, but not the octane comment. Higher octane has nothing to do with power just by switching, that's not what octane ratings are about
@@dirtygarageguy i googled it says higher power and performance 98 over 91 octane . so ive allways thought. more bang is more power . unless im missed something...better economy and more performance. well thats what i reading. i wouldn't be thinking much power more ..same very minimal .. same as the chain drag.
Octane ratring is about anti-detonation. Nothing more. If you increase the compression ratio then you can get more power, but not if you just change the octane rating
@@dirtygarageguy the debate is on at work now .. that if I run 91 octaine down the drag strip quarter mile .and then 98 octaine . I will get same time. same horsepower.
main reason for x ring chains is that they are more narrow than o ring chains. Sone bikes (especially bikes that originally came with a standard chain) cannot use an o ring chain because it will touch the engine case. One example is the KDX 200/220. An o ring chain will wear against the engine case behind the front sprocket but an x ring will not. Bet you didn't realize that.
