It's 2024 and I can say that for the past 2 years I have been sowing pepper seeds in Happy Frog successfully and do NOT need to fertilize them for the 2 months they are indoors prior to transplanting outside! Yay!
The damn guys at the store say the same thing tho too ! That's why I went with happy frog 🐸 it's more a mild soil and ocean forest is to acidic for seeds and clones, but I might just try ocean forest again
@@mattpersico518 yeah I hear that a lot. There are so many variables. But this study and the 180 pepper plants i germinated 6 weeks ago - had great results.
@@mattpersico518 i did a mix and one of my plants seems sensitive to the soil. Started doing the claw thing and leaves are super dark green. Just may b too hot for it. The other one seems to love it 🤷🏻♂️ going all happy frog next time.
Love this video. I moved from starting seeds in a seed starting mix to starting them in Ocean Forrest, since I buy Ocean Forrest anyhow, and I’ve had a ton of success with it. Glad to see that decision reinforced.
Hi, outdoor cannabis grows in NY here! I start my seeds in happy frog because they tend to sprout faster and have stronger roots due to the mycorrhiza. I’m not too worried about nute burn, In ocean forest it just doesn’t seem to treat my plants as well when planting. Once I transfer to the 7g pot I put the root ball into a little more happy frog, and then underneath I put ocean forest, then strawberry fields & perlite at the bottom. It’s worked extremely well and requires little to no feeding throughout the full photo period cycle. All I added was extra mycorrhiza, dolomite lime and diatomaceous earth for insects.
Sounds like a plan! The last batch of HF I just got must have been extremely hot. I got clawing right away and leaves were super dark green. I think next grow I'm going dr earth soil with no fert so I can add my own for 100% control. I've been hearing a lot about inconsistencies in FF soil, and now having experienced it myself....
when you start them off as seedlings what do you put in the soil cause i have the ocean forest and it’s burning one of my plants just want to know what to put in the soil while starting them off
Thanks! Did 2 grows for my peppers, this feb was the true run and they all did fine without any added fert. So much easier than dealing with the trio of ff ferts.
I used 50/50 mix for a while. I noticed the 50/50 was better for the more ornamental and resilient plantings. However, for my peppers, tomatoes, eggplants, etc. I used 3 quarters ocean soil and 1 quarter happy frog. I don't find it absolutely necessary though because you can get good growth with cheaper soils and fox farm fertilizers. Just smaller blooms and produce.
Happy frog has less nutrients than ocean forest. So you should start your plants in happy frog then when you transfer to a larger medium upgrade to ocean forest
Yeah I grow all kinds of tropical fruit trees and seedlings..they love happy frog and ocean forest...I mix the soils together with added sand and worm castings. Ocean forest over time does clump together into a solid mass if you never cycle it out of pots though..so keep that in mind..but if you regularly keep the soil healthy and cycle it out once a year it's fantastic!
Thanks...I started my seeds in Ocean Forest and had great success for years it's just i didn't know they said not to start seeds in it but i will go without additional fertilizer until the 40th day because the plants stay consistent not totally stressing them.
Yeah 40 days sounds pretty good. I think i went 60 and they were pretty much depleted by then. Germ'd in a mix of of/hf for the 2022 season and had terrific results too!
I use both. However I won't use Ocean Forest indoors, because any time I have, I end up with Fungus Gnat infestations. That never happens with Happy Frog. Love Ocean Forest for outdoors, but only Happy Frog indoors. Jiffy Seed Starting Mix is the worst. It all falls off of the roots when transplanting, which ends up subjecting the transplants to unnecessary stress. I've used Happy Frog to germinate my seeds and it works great!
Yes, happy frog all the way for me. Just picked up 2 bags recently. Fungus gnats is all about the place you're buying it from. Some places just don't store it properly. Luckily, where I get it from - zero gnats! However, they leave it outside and it's absolutely water logged. Takes forever to dry out. Pick your poison I guess. It's difficult to get where I am.
Awesome video, I typically use a 50/50 mixture of the two for my veggies (though I just kind of eyeball it so it’s not exactly that). I have run a similar test with this and some different Kellogg’s organic and Omri certified soils and the plants stunted at the seedlings just like yours did for those soils. I’ve only had to add some fertilizer for some peppers and tomatoes once or so a season (I use MicroLife 8-4-6) while some others never needed extra fertilizer. The microbial life in both of those Foxfarm soils is really nice so they definitely don’t need a lot of extra fertilizer in my experience.
Yes, me too. Lately, I've been mixing pro-mix organic with happy frog since my FF supplier leaves their pallets outdoors and the bags get absolutely water logged. 😩
germinating in HF or OF is probably not recommended because it has big chunks of wood in it, I use Happy Frog for literally everything, I just sift out the larger chunks for germinating seeds, and just add those bigger chunks in the bottom of any grow bag
Yes me too, those big pieces of wood always end up covering where the seed would emerge! I sift out the big stuff. I've been going on 3 germination sessions so far with about 150 plants each session and so far so good with the HF. However the last batch I got was extremely hot.
I just got a bag of Happy Frog to start some seeds. I also bought a second heat mat but seeing how warm it gets in my $45 green house I might not need them, also it's been 80 the last 2 days randomly in February
I hope im ok growing houseplants on the ocean forest My local exotic plant store Only sells the ocean forest and happy frog as they claim there the best on the market
Well, my 2c, I'd argue they're prob the most popular soils among enthusiasts, but they are known to be a bit inconsistent with the amount of nutrients in them. I've had some hot bags before. I'm honestly not sure when it comes to house plants. Seems like overkill to me. I don't believe it is what the soil was intended for. 🤷♂️
I only have about 50% germination rate in jiffy seed starter mix with heat or without. It's a lot better mixed 50/50 with raised bed garden soil, sometimes as high as 95% germination rate.
Interesting. I usually had pretty good results except for what happened in this video. Regardless, after this video i never used it again and never looked back! 🤣
Lol i love it. It's like I'm watching a video about growing cann😂bis yet you are saying peppers. I had no idea that peppers should be watered with ph water as well. I think i will treat my pepper grow differently this year. Thank you
Haha, I had no idea these soils were so popular with cannabis until I posted this video! 😆. All plants have an ideal ph range, so if you're growing something inside through harvest it's a good idea to ph the water. Since my peppers are inside for only 2 months I normally don't bother. I just did it for this experiment to reduce variables.
I like how you mentioned cannabis. It was still informative. Have you tried ghost peppers? Does it make any difference what pepper it is? I want to try. I won't try bell peppers again. They grow, but there's no real meat to them. Like paper peppers.
I honestly had no idea how popular it is in the cannabis community. Yes, ghost peppers of course. If you Google 86 peppers and get to my site you will see all the seeds I have for sale. That's pretty much everything I've ever grown. Well, maybe a few other s that didn't make the cut. A lot of the super hots are very thin walled, especially the ghost pepper. Ghosts literally are like sheets of paper. The outer skin is very thin. I never actually thought about it but It's possible that I the hotter the peppers are the thinner walled they are 🤷♂️
@86peppers The GP I grew came out canary yellow and stayed that way. HOT but sweet..ish. I was expecting thin walled peppers. They were fairly thick. Did I just luck out?
Yes, I found it to be pretty hot as well. And inconsistent. I only use HF for peppers, and for my other plants I use 50/50 soil/peat with vermiculite and perlite. No fert. Or, the promix red bag which is just peat and micorizhae 👍
My pepper plants starting wilting and dying in top soil on transplant then switched to Fox Farm soil and now they are doing way better! The jackass at the hardware garden store gave me really bad advice to use garden soil on pepper plants in containers. It was by pure luck in meeting a local pepper farmer who advised me to use the Fox Farm soil.
👍 lately I've been doing a 3 way mix with peat (pro mix garden), vermiculite, and soil w/ perlite (dr earth black bag). Just stuff I had laying around. No nutes in it, it's just medium that needs to drain well, but not too well! For the peppers while inside for 2 months, yeah i use happy frog and I just need to water them!
A lot depends on where/how/how long the product is stored, either at the store or your house. Never got gnats with purchased soil. Only time i ever got a wicked case of gnats was when i overwintered pepper plants. The soil is pretty maintenance free. As song as you're watering regularly with ph'd water and carefully applying nutes. That's assuming your climate is suitable. I'd venture with autos u prob don't even need to fertilize. But ymmv of course.
I was wondering if it was safe to use ocean forest soil to grow garden vegetables in a square foot garden. The package had only mentioned shrub, trees and roses
It's safe to use. If you're planting in a pot or container, use it straight from the bag. If you're planting in the ground, be sure to mix it in with your soil.
It's weird my hydro store has been out of ocean forest and only had mother Earth by Hawthorne. He said it was very comparable to Ocean Forest. Now I'm thinking it might've been better cause i just bought a bag of ocean forest for $27. $25 plus tax. And i just opened it up and I swear it doesn't look like the same ocean forest I used to get. It seemed really fluffy and barely any perlit. Wtf is with that?? Lol. I've used Happy frog too. I used it both indoor and outdoor. Happy frog is supposed to be for outdoors and Fox farm ocean Forest is more for indoors, but the drainage in this bag I got doesn't seem to have as much perlite in it and the drainage doesn't seem the same. I think I'll actually go back to Hawthorne groundswell i think, and it's cheaper. $19.99 vs $27 tax included. Groundswell has the drainage that fox farm used to.
Interesting, in my talks with Fox farm on the phone. They never mentioned anything about what environment their soils were intended for. I'll be honest, this stuff is getting really expensive. I spent $100 on 3 bags of soil last week. Dr earth black bag 1.5cf $22, Pro mix white 60lb $50, Happy frog 2cf $25. I think I'm going to start mending my own. Yeah nothing wrong with adding more perlite. Gotta find that sweet spot. Too much it'll drain too quickly and not enough will cause compaction. Too quickly is the lesser of the 2 evils here imo
@@86peppers I think I'm gonna go back to the Hawthorne groundswell, it's almost exactly the same as ocean forest and it has a lot more perlite and better drainage. Plus it's only 19.99 a bag. They used to only be $15 for a bag of ocean forest or happy frog.
I have a white widow auto this is my second grow my first one an hour before the lights out the leaves went down and then 1 hour before the lights go on went up this new one is 2 months old and the leaves never go down even in the dark wtf lol is this stress? my tent lights out is 70 degrees and about 50 to 60 humidity and the lights on 80 degrees 60 humid I don't know what the hell is happening and I go 18 hours light and 6 off.
That is strange. Am I reading this right- leaves droop in response to light? Only thing I have seen trigger drooping is lack of or too much water (root rot). Any type if intense/weak light would usually cause discoloration. 🤷🏻♂️ What kind if light?
If you used 3 or even 5 gal fabric pots they would have stayed healthy much longer. Happy frog is the best cannabis seedling starter soil, I've tried many.
They needed bigger pots for producing Fruit, they got Root Bound and with larger pots the food would have lasted longer. I think straight Coco Quire, mixed with Perlite, a little Pete Moss, and Feed them from day 1. I am getting great results with that in heat thus far getting up to 114 f outside under 30% shade cloth. Arizona is hot, now, 105 today at 11;46 AM. I water a lot, 2 times a day, Vermiculite is for Seeds, I have 100% Success in Strait Vermiculite to Germinate seeds. Old school Vermiculite is No 1 in my Book. I gave up on the Heat mats, my ac is on 80 F and that Sprouts seeds for me all the time now. Fox farms Trio with some Alaskan Fish oil sometimes, and that is what i Feed with Cal-Mag. I germinate indoors, and in a week or so I Plant them outside in Fabric 10 gal pots.
Sounds like you got your system down! With this study I wanted to see how long the soils would feed the plants specifically in 3.5" pots since that's what I and a lot of people use while they start their peppers indoors (typically for only 2 months) before they transplant them outdoors. I tested it for the first time for real this year. I sewed my seeds in mid February. A mix of both of these soils supplied the plants with everything they needed while inside without any added fertilizer.
I was loosing so many seeds with of and hf. I changed and found a method that’s much better and it involves heat. So, heat is necessary and works in my opinion
@@86peppers yea. I started off with happy frog. Then ocean forest. But, I’m switching back to happy frog because it has humus and peat. I’m starting to add clovers to my pots. Planning to work towards a super soil using happy frog as the base. I only use happy frog and ocean forest from ff.
I think this would be overkill with house plants. Since there is no emphasis on growth or fruit, you're just keeping them alive, so whatever soil you can get is fine.
FF ocean burnt my tomato plants. I think maybe seeds planted directly grow well but not so well if transplanted. I am going to mix forest and frog 50/50 next week here in s fl. Has anyone tried this mix?
Yes, that's the most economical imo. I usually do this. However, the last batch of happy frog was really hot. Plants were super dark green. I think next time I'm going with a fert-less soil and just add my own. I've been using the dr earth organic liquid ferts (google dr earth cannabis) on my peppers. Working well! 👌
Ocean Forest uses synthetic nitrogen...it's no longer an Organic soil product unfortunately. Notice how the bag doesn't say organic anywhere like they used to back in the day
It's a bummer that it's not organic. I don't believe I've said they are organic in my videos (aside from their Big Bloom fert), but still I hold FF to pretty high standards and trust their ingredients are of the highest quality.
@@86peppers thank you I had put it in my square ft garden box without reading the bag notes...until recently. I freaked when it only said Trees, shrubs and roses😲
@@86peppers some people who grow those “other plants” will add a bunch of perlite to the mix, like at least 30% and then layer it. Happy frog on top ocean forest underneath. I guess the thinking is by the time the route to get to the bottom of the plant can tolerate the hotter soil.
Lol, I wonder if this has more to do with how the retailer stores the product. I've been getting mine from Agway here on Long Island for the past 4 years and, knock on wood, no gnats. Other places, no matter what you get - it's gnats galore.
Why didn't you fertilize the other two soils? Seems like a bad test, because those soils were used incorrectly....they were designed to work with added nutrients. This is not a fair test, as only 50% of the test subjects had food!! You starved the other two, which makes it absolutely impossible for them to survive beyond sprouting. Ocean Forest runs out of nutrients around 30 days
This was done intentionally. The Espoma and top soil were the control plants. Their intended purpose was to establish how long the plants would thrive without any additional nutrients. This helped inform the difference between FF and OF. This study was just about the difference between those 2 soils. Not all 4. Apparently, in my study I found that they feed quite a bit longer than 30 days.
Good idea! Clones aren't that popular in the pepper community..... So I did the next best thing by using all the same seeds from the same pepper pod 🤷🏻♂️
Fox farms ocean forest is your best option for organic growing all the ammendment are solid for at least 30-35 days I use it on cannabis so they eat .....problem with happy frog is the ph run off drops off quick as shit ....honestly not even sure why they sell happy frog you can build everything you need off ocean Forrest furthermore as much as I love fox farm you shouldn't ever use bottle nutrients it's just inorganic sugar water ....don't care if it says it's organic it's now a chemical so it's a inorganic medium.....use natural ammendment build your soil to a living soil purely organic and you won't have 95% of these problems.....the problem is it's a balancing act you have to do the job of the soil .....just let the soil do the work....take care of the soil and the plant grows itself. You'll have flawless harvests and you can recycle and save the soil and with a minimal amount of love and effort you'll have even stronger better soil for plants that are finishing vegging stage sure yiu can't use it for seedlings but watch what happens when you start recycling your soil better tastes yields no bugs etc
