OCSS-018 Finishing Frames and Building the Scow Bow Panel - Mini-Cruiser Sailboat Build

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In this episode I finish up the edge work and fairing on frames C2 and C4. After edges get rounded with a sander, they are covered in 1 layer of chop strand mat and 1 layer of 6oz cloth. I discuss my plans to add a foil shape to the twin keels. I then cut out the bow panel, form it into its scow bow shape, and fiberglass it.
Final footage is of Yann Quenet’s boat Baluchon sailing in Mauritius. Baluchon is a major inspiration for me taking on this project, as Yann has proven this type of pocket-cruiser can be sailed across oceans and around the world.
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Join us on the Facebook group to discuss the project and view design drawings, general build, and behind-the-scenes photos: / 581818059568072
📧 Contact me at dawnlandfall@gmail.com
Ocean capable small sailboat, Mini-cruiser, Micro-cruiser, Pocket Cruiser, scow bow, twin keel, PVC foam core, garage DIY boat build.

Опубликовано:

6 фев 2022

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Комментарии : 70

@skyak4493 Год назад

I am so glad you are giving your keels some shape. Most armatures don't realize that a flat plate has higher drag going through the water than a thicker foil section because the boundary layer starts growing fast from the leading edge. I hope you are not too attached to your profile selection -you don't need something that thick and there are better profiles. You also need to consider the zero lift angle of attack -it is likely not where you expect. There is another guy on YT building a small twin keel sailboat that has a friend with significant experience making keels in steel. He would certainly be worth a consult.

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat Год назад

Thanks for the comment. What profile are you thinking would be better? I don't think the one I chose was that thick, about 8cm / 3".

@Garryck-1 2 года назад

Excellent move, changing to foil-shaped keels. Be sure to use a foil shape for the rudder, too. I know of someone who changed from a flat board type rudder to a foil, and he said the improvement in handling and performance was incredible. Can't say I'm a fan of those square cornered holes in some of the frames though. Square cornered holes tend to concentrate stress forces, leading to cracks and/or failures. That's the reason all such holes on boats and aircraft have rounded corners.

@matthiasletson-maddux1933 2 года назад

Who is you favorite literary vampire? "That one from Sesame Street" Dude, he doesn't count. "I assure you he does."

@davidrumsey3180 2 года назад

I fully support the idea of adding a foil shape to the keels. Even though some sailors avoid windward sailing if they can, you have to do it sometimes and you need everything on your side. Being able to go to windward efficiently can save your life. Keels with a decent foil profile work better than flat plates. Do it!

@gumbykevbo 2 года назад

Perry, In addition to the hydrodynamics of the foiled keels, it gives you the opportunity to fix a structural issue. Your (angled) T section is asking a lot from a fillet weld. The foil section will allow you to add gussets between the keel plate and the mounting foot that will do a lot to mitigate fatigue at the weld joint. then you can fill in between the gussets with foam. Don’t know what corrosion concerns might be with glassed-over metal submerged in salt water.

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

Yeah! I was consulting with a fabricator who suggested using 2 or 3 angle irons welded to the vertical plate, so that it makes tubes with triangular cross-sections. Very strong.

@arnekvinge6073 2 года назад

I like the "lifting" foil keel for some reason and not for one. When both keel is full in water no problems. When one keel start to go over water it loose lift. For supporting side forces I would have a wider and thicker plate on the top and bracings or knees inside the foil where the lift is strongest. And maybee a brace inside on a plate ( bolt on) one the top of the bracing.

@krismatski 2 года назад

I also used NACA shapes in my tween sweeng keels. Different boat from the same stable.

@BalaTheRealOne 2 года назад

I like the new keel shape, maybe consider to add more lead to compensate the foam core's lifting effect to keep the waterline as it planned.

@leolems7666 2 года назад

Im not sure abt the foils... but maybe im wrong... If the boat heels over a lot... the leeward side keel could be above surface. The other keel which is still in the water keeps healing the boat further instead of bringing it upright. I would reverse the foil action... (But thats just my 2 cents) English is not my natural language, but i think you said minimize leeway (can i interpret that as drifting sideways?) In that case longer keels will help (that will also help in pointing towards the wind) Good job by the way.. nice to see people actually making things and enjoy that :)

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

Thanks. I don't think there's any danger of the keels being out of the water. They are located on the bottom panel, each is just 28cm from centerline. I'd have to capsize to get a keel out of the water.

@LEGOWENTV 2 года назад

I stated fabricating my daggerboards for my Naut 475. They have a similar profile to your keels…bowed toward the center. I’m not looking forward to pouring lead. Glad you are giving Fusion a try…definitely helps to plan things out.

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

Cool. I can see in the plan preview that he put the foil shape in there. Does it have a NACA identifier so I can look it up?

@LEGOWENTV 2 года назад

@@ocean_capable_small_sailboat He doesn't list it. You could probably ask him. I'm a little bit torn on the idea of asymmetric daggerboards as it means they aren't redundant to each other if something happens to one of them. I guess if something happens to one of them it means I crashed badly and might have other problems with the boat other than a bad daggerboard. ;)

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

It's such a remote chance that you'd break one, I wouldn't worry about it. You could probably build an emergency daggerboard with a symmetrical foil that fits in either slot. It would be good enough to get you back to port.

@videobob 2 года назад

Perfect

@NA-xm7wj 2 года назад

Lookin good captain. I’m definitely liking the new keel design. Good job

@DowneastThunderCreations 2 года назад

👍👍👍

@DavidJones-ex6pi 2 года назад

Perry. I am wondering if your boat will be suitable for two occupants? Keep up the great work, Dave from Canada.

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

For sleeping it would be cozy. 1.16 meters of space measured athwartships in the cabin between the walls of the storage compartments. My family is pretty slim folks so I could take both kids on some overnight trips on it with just me. or 2 adults with no kids. Hell you could even rig up a bunk that folds out of the way so you could have 2 levels of sleeping bunks. I'll likely be mostly solo sailing.

@stephenjdixon1 2 года назад

that asymmetric profile only works one way as an aerofoil. To work with two angles of attack you need a symmetrical one such as a C6

@Garryck-1 2 года назад

That's exactly the idea. The profile on the other keel is a mirror image of the first.

@areyoumad 2 года назад

Your twin keel design seems interesting. You should definitely check one more French guy (after Quénet & Delaunay, haha !) : Erik Lerouge's "twin keel system". It is fin-like, very stable and performance-oriented. Hope you like it! Salutations de France, l'ami!

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

I'll check it out!

@mattevans-koch9353 2 года назад

I like the foil idea for the keels. Have you had a chance to research the Americas cup foil designs on the boats from this last year? There might be something you could use in finalizing your design. Of course if you go all out you could end up just sailing on the foils in the right wind. Good video. Looking forward to seeing the bow panel and the rest of the bulkheads in. Also loved the Sesame Street homage. Take care, stay well and keep having fun.

@leo169 2 года назад

Hi Cptn Perry, using a pair of foils would be exactly what I will do. One idea is to fabricate the foil fully from steel and filling with lead, either poured or shot. Can be done relatively easily using a couple of different diameter pipes some flat bar and sheet. If you are interested I can send you an email with some details.

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

Yes, please send me some info on it. Thanks.

@DIYCameraGuy 2 года назад

If you tear the chop strand, it will lay down with a smoother transition.

@constantinoslaliotitis7073 2 года назад

Looking good Captain Perry! Can't believe the progress. I do have a question. At 4:48, you say the foil will be on the "inside". I may be way off here but won't that create lift on the wrong side of the keel. So when you heel and pick up speed that will increase lift to the inside, thus exacerbating the degree of heel? Regardless, amazing project. I wish my project moved as fast as yours. Best!

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

Thanks bro. Progress feels slow to me! You saw the diagram I drew at 4:44, right? I didn't understand it at first either, but after reading up on it, it makes sense. As you heel, the windward keel moves more horizontal. So, it's lift force is pointing down, helping to right the boat. The leeward keel is more vertical in the water at that point and its lift pulls the boat to windward, helping to minimize your boat's slip to leeward.

@paulgiusti9703 2 года назад

You might be over thinking the keel setup. My guess that on a boat of this size, the performance risks around the foil design out weight the possible upside. I'd think your number 1,2, and 3 issues would be the structural integrety of the design. With two keels you double the chance of knocking one off...

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

The great thing about the boat being small is that it's easy to make these keels strong for the size of the boat. I can't think of any risks added by adding a small foil. It's just a bit of performance increase.

@paulgiusti9703 2 года назад

@@ocean_capable_small_sailboat Risk is probably the wrong word, questions probably better. How lift, drag, cavitation at different points of sail, heel angles...all in a dynamic environment impact boat performance - who knows? To go to all the extra work and cost, the performance benefits would need to be substantial. Good luck.

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

@@paulgiusti9703 Not much extra cost (a friend and I will do the welding,) just have to add in a couple angle irons & steel pipe for rigidity and the shape, with some foam inside. The fiberglass materials I already have. A little extra time, but I enjoy the time spent on it.

@cornishhh 2 года назад

One of the most compelling reasons to fit twin keels is an ability to dry out on land. IMO you'll get a more stable boat with less stress on the keel to hull joins if you make the keels a bit longer, even if this means sacrificing a little speed. If you make the skeg protecting the rudder a few inches shorter than the keels the boat will naturally dry out in a stable position on flat sand. Regarding the foil section; I'd be interested to know how much speed you'd sacrifice with additional drag over using just a thin flat plate. If you were sailing downwind wouldn't the channelling and squeezing of water between the foils tend to act like a brake?

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

In my first mock-up, the keels are only 3" / 7.5cm thick, the foil should let it slide through the water more efficiently and add that benefit of a little bit of lift, but I don't think the drag will be enough to really cause any trouble.

@troyboyd3100 2 года назад

The flat plate at the bottom of your keel will work as a drag any time your bow is down. Won't that increase the hobby horsing on such a short boat?

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

I don't think so, there are other examples of keels with wings out there. The great thing is you prevent water from slipping over the bottom of the foil. It increases efficiency and reduces leeway. The advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

@alanduncan9204 2 года назад

Am no expert, for my 2 cents worth those "airfoils" look a bit broad/wide in profile? Compared to what you see on much bigger vessels. Anything under the water line is going to create more drag by dimensions and weight.

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

3 inches (7.5cm) thick, 21 inches long (54cm). Shouldn't be too thick. I haven't really finalized any dimensions yet though, still have time to make changes if people have better ideas.

@dc14522 2 года назад

Something about the keel foils doesn't seem right. I think what you're going to end up doing is adding drag to the foils without any noticeable improvement in upwind performance. I'm not a nautical engineer, but I think symmetrical keels (like you would have for a rudder) will provide lift from both keels without having them work against each other. Yes, the keels will be at 30 degrees to each other, but both will be in the water virtually all the time, and whatever force vector advantage you have from the leeward keel you'll only have going upwind, and it will be very small. The opposing force of the upwind keel will cancel 85% of the side force generated by the leeward keel. Meanwhile you'll have extra drag on all points of sail, with no advantage at all going downwind. I used a NACA 0012 foil shape for the rudder on my 44' sailboat which was a reasonable compromise between lift and drag, and from what I've read would be a good choice for your keels. Good work... and keep those updates coming! thanks, Dan

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

Thanks, the foil shape I used isn't really the final choice, just one I grabbed for the 3-D model. I could use the NACA 12 foil and just make the outboard side a bit flatter. I think there's a compromise I can find where I get a bit of lift to use as described in the video, but don't really add much of any noticeable drag.

@tomtom6319 2 года назад

Not sure if you addressed the benefits of the scow bow so maybe at some point while constructing it add a little insight into it. Cheers!

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

Hi, I got into it in detail in OCSS-006. Hope you take a look.

@tolentinoosayan3493 2 года назад

hi, what is the main material are you using? the yellowish or cream color is that polyethylene sheet.? thanks

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

I discuss it in OCSS-007. PVC foam @ 4lb density.

@svfixerup 2 года назад

Did you consider using G10 for the mast step?

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

Not really, I wanted something easier to cut and shape for that part.

@DrSurf-fx4gf 2 года назад

I was wondering when you were going to figure out that foil shaped bilge keel's would be much more efficient. Only down side to a bilge keel, is a snappy roll in some conditions when at anchor. There is a free program available that simulates hull tank testing that will let you test your keel design and placement in order to minimize turbulence and improve your hull efficiency. Just saying.

@Garryck-1 2 года назад

Do you have a link (or at least a name) for that tank testing simulation, please?

@KarstenM. 2 года назад

Wont the keels work against each other and create drag? They will create a force towards the center and mostly cancel each other out, but the forces are subtracted from your forward force created by the sail!

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

Any keels will create drag, these just add a little bit of lifting action which improves performance. Much smarter people than me came up with this design and it's been successfully been implemented on ocean-going yachts. With the keels canted outward and the boat heeled over, the forces aren't fully cancelling each other out. One acts more downward and the other sideways. See diagram at 4:23.

@KarstenM. 2 года назад

@@ocean_capable_small_sailboat I see the benefits, its used in aircraft too. Downwarts angeld wings for agility and upwards for stability, but your keels are more parallel and water is much denser than air, so the canceling forces might be pretty high. But I dont know boats and if it bekomes a problem, you coud always remove the wing shape! Nice build, by the way, I am learnig a lot about fiberglassing! Greetings from germany!

@KarstenM. 2 года назад

@@ocean_capable_small_sailboat I looked again at your keels and the explanation and I am pretty sure it doesnt work that way. The forces cancel each other out around the lenght axis, all that remains is downforce directly in line with the mast, ballast would be better for that, because it always works down and doesnt change with the heeling angle.

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

@@KarstenM. www.brayyachtdesign.bc.ca/article_twinkeels.html Read the article. You're not taking into account the fact that the keels are not parallel to each other, they are canted out. "When heeled, bilge keels draw more water. At 15 degrees heel this boat draws 5'-0" but when upright it only draws 4'-0". Also the lifting action of the asymmetrical keels can be seen. The vertical one is reducing leeway and the more horizontal one is helping to right the boat."

@BrunoWiebelt 2 года назад

the new keel feels good, but what say the numbers ??? is it worth it

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

I think, it doesn't hurt to add the foil. Takes a little more time to make, but it will flow through the water more efficiently.

@barneygoogle4003 2 года назад

Will twin keels make tacking difficult due to slow turning response?

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

I'm not concerned. Looking forward to testing it in the water.

@paloureiro 2 года назад

What's the material that you used to shape the bow? A foam?

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

The bow panel is made of 1cm thick PVC foam. The female mold was all scrap wood, some is plywood some is solid wood from a pallet I found.

@nuthenry2 2 года назад

it says 'Air Foil' do air foil work in water just fine or do you need a water foil? also it may be worth getting 2 steel keel fabricated for you if they are a hard steel shell you could to that water pocket thing where the keel will drain out the water if it capsizes and make it easier to right

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

I'm not sure if there's a recommended "water foil" shape, but I'm open to suggestions. Why would I want water to drain out of the keels when capsized? That's when you need that weight in the keels to help you right. I'm not wild about the idea of having water inside my keels, though. I feel like it would just get filled up with marine life and be impossible to inspect/clean/repair in there.

@nuthenry2 2 года назад

@@ocean_capable_small_sailboat i was mistaken, On Lifeboats they have pockets that fill up with water to help stabilization, After I fought about it the weight of the keels would tip the boat back over. but that said i remender some boat use water as ballast and they just Empty it before putting it on the trailer as for foil shape if you look at fins and keel fins you will notice that there are quite thin, water is 800 as dense as air (more or less) so airplanes need steep airfoils to Direct enough air, with water you will get a lot more lift action on the keel. it could (possibly) lift you out of the water if your going fast enough. You should probably speak with a professional Shipwright at some point before you commit to anything expensive Because it would be a lot cheaper for a consultant fee than having to remake the keel

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

@@nuthenry2 Keels are only 7.5cm (3 in) thick with a length of 54cm. Not much. I will have water ballast below the floor in the form of drinking-water bottles. Easy to remove if needed.

@vaidotasratkus7619 2 года назад

Its very sad that you went from junk rig to overcomplicated, unreliable spinning mast.

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

That's a negative way to look at it. First, this boat was never going to be a junk rig, so there was no switching. I'd say the junk rig is much more complicated with all its battens, extra sheets and other lines. The spinning mast is simple, just requires a bearing at the bottom of a tube. Unreliable? Tell that to Yann Quenet who has sailed around the world with this rig in his boat Baluchon without issue!

@vaidotasratkus7619 2 года назад

@@ocean_capable_small_sailboat Its your boat - your choices. But tenten 425 V2 plans are with junk rig. In plans there is mast step, all needed reinforcement for rigid free standing mast not spinning mast. Also triangular sail will have different center of effort than junk rig in plans, this affect sailing quit a bit. Not sure about Yann Quenet, but I from looks of it its not original tenten 425 or he heavily modified it. But hey - good luck for you!

@ocean_capable_small_sailboat 2 года назад

@@vaidotasratkus7619 From the beginning, before materials were ever ordered, I planned for this boat to have the Ljungström rig, so I don't see the relevance of what you're writing. Tenten 425 plans were a starting point, but there isn't a single panel on this boat that still has measurements from that plan. I don't really think you can call it a Tenten 425. If you want to build a boat with a junk rig, go for it! I actually like junk rigs too, I just want to use the Ljungström rig.