ODYSSEUS OF ITHACAAA! | Keep Your Friends Close/Ruthlessness - Epic: The Musical | Reaction/Analysis 

"Odysseus have you ever thought for 6 milliseconds before doing something?" Well he did spend the course of a very fucked up lullaby deciding to drop a baby off a wall, and has regretted it ever since. Maybe that's why he's not stopping to think things over now

Drowning at sea was considered one of the worst ways to die in Greek mythology… because your body couldn’t be retrieved.. which makes this even darker

A lot of people are saying Odysseus didn't actually apologize and that's why Poseidon killed his men, but I think they're missing the point. Poseidon just sang a whole song about how ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves, saying you can't make an enemy then let them live. Throughout the song it is very clear he has every intention of killing Odysseus. And the line directly after the apology (genuine or not) isn't "that wasn't an apology." It's "The line between naivety and hopefulness is almost invisible." He's calling Odysseus naive for believing an apology would earn him Poseidon's mercy. Poseidon was never going to let Odysseus or his men live, because it goes against his entirely philosophy. "You are far too nice, mercy has a price." "Unlike you I've got no mercy left to give." Nothing Odysseus said would ever have gotten them mercy from Poseidon.

Another parallel I love in AnniFlamma’s Ruthlessness: Poseidon as a horse saying to Odysseus “I am your darkest moment”. Odysseus is the one who came up with the idea for the Trojan Horse, and he regrets doing it. In his mind he was dishonorably slaughtering sleeping men, and it haunts him still.

odysseus has 12 ships with 50 men each (600 men) Polyphemus killed 7 from the main ship and Poseidon sank the other 11 ships leaving 43 on ody's flagship

You'll also notice that Odysseus. Never actually apologizes. He doesn't say I'm so sorry or we're sorry. He just Deflex around it with words.

The little guys are called "winions!" Also, Telemachus' face is scratched out because he was just a baby when Odysseus left (remember when he compares him to Hector's infant son in "Just a Man"?), so Odysseus doesn't even know what his own son looks like :( At the end of "Keep Your Friends Close," Aeolus warns the crew that they are heading to the "land of the giants," so the background vocals from "Ruthlessness" are being sung by those giants, called the Laestragonians. So far, I haven't seen any artists who have actually depicted the Laestrygonians in their animatics. In addition to reprising "I am your darkest moment," the last "remember me" from Poseidon is also an echo of what Odysseus said to Polyphemus.

I just noticed recently and I can’t stop thinking about it: after the lines “A Greek who reeks of false righteousness - that’s what I hate!” the piano comes back for a while. And later when he sings “so close your heart, the world is dark”, there’s the piano again. Because Poseidon is echoing what Athena was saying. Her lessons. Maybe Athena is even listening in, like “see? That’s what I was talking about.”

Worst part, Ithaca was just on sight when they opened the bag, so he literally almost succed Also, Poseidon never intended to let them live, he just wanted to see him humilated, bc in case you haven't noticed, Odysseus fatal flaw is hubris/pride. Also Ody technically never apologized, just excused his actions, he tried to bluff, to do what Poseidon asked without actually doing it, using his wits (you rely on wit, and poeple die on it), you can see it in how he phrased everything, and how the animatic shows him smiling, it's definitely not an Im innocent smile, more like I got you now, fall for my trap/lie. He always looked for the "smart" way out- didn't really work against the god who no matter what wanted to see him dead.

There's a lot of people saying Odysseus didn't apologize, and I feel like those people don't understand what an apology _is._ It's not about literally saying "sorry", or "I apologize". It means an admission of error and/or acknowledgement of what you did wrong. When Odysseus says "we meant no harm" and "we took no pleasure in his pain", that _is_ an apology. That is an admission of, "yes, we hurt your son, and we shouldn't have done it". Does he give the reasons why they did that? Yes, but that's what you're _supposed_ to do when you give an apology. Explaining what happened is literally step two in the Harvard guide on how to apologize. Poseidon doesn't sink the fleet because Odysseus "didn't apologize", he sinks it because that's what he'd been saying he was going to do the entire time. "The line between naiveté and hopefulness is almost invisible." is basically him calling Odysseus out on, "Haven't you been hearing a word I said?" - pointing out that his offer of mercy flew in the face of everything he'd been saying up to that point, and that Odysseus was a fool to believe it.

The survivors amounted to only the men on Odysseus' ship. Also, when Poseidon was drowning the fleet and all the men were crying "Captain!" The melody of the captains is the same melody from the beginning that was chanting "Poseidon". And that melody is the "Danger is Near" motif.

The whole white thing over telemacus's eyes is just bc Odysseus has been gone so long he doesn't know what his son actually looks like its not heinous lmao

There is a reason that AnniFlamma is usually The Recommendation for Ruthlessness - such a *fantastic* animation. Of note, while I agree that Odysseus was heartfelt in his explanation, it wasn't an *apology*. Someone also pointed out somewhere else that Poseidon drowning the rest of his men first (just sparing Odysseus's ship) was him honoring his son's "gift" of Odysseus being the last to die.

Posidon asks for an apology. Odysseus gives excuses/ reasonings. Not an apology.

The parallel of Poseidon holding the infant while talking about his son can also work with the line "a greek who reeks of false righteousness" cause Odysseus was all on his high horse not wanting to kill Polyphemus (which I do think would have been the right move if he hadn't revealed his name) but he couldn't spare any mercy for the infant who hadn't done anything wrong yet. That's why I could never be on Odysseus's side in his argument with Athena, even though I'm all for mercy and compassion. I, too, hate false righteousness 😅

For the Circe saga, I'd recommend doing: Puppeteer: Gigi Wouldn't You Like: Ximena Natzel Done For: AnniFlamma and then waiting for AnniFlamma to finish their There are Other Ways animatic before reacting to the Circe saga. Almost no one has a There are Other Ways animatic yet, so you'll be waiting for someone one way or another.

15:47 Ody considers being a father as an active role. The fact that he hasn't been there for his son's foundational years is something that haunts him through the whole story.

Poseidon: apologies for what you did to my son! Odysseus: we did not mean to harm him. we only wanted to escape. Poseidon: I see your point, but did you not hear where I said to; ME DAMN APOLOGIES?!!!

“ I am your darkest moment “ as the eldritch horse grin’s sadistically . So terrifying

"and yet you hurt this son of mine!" "It was at this moment he knew...he fucked up."

"The line between NAIVETY and HOPEFULLNESS is almost invisible." Did Ody apologize? Absolutely not... Even if he HAD apologized, Poseidon says 'I cant tell if your stupid or hopeful, but either way die.' Poseidon had no intent of sparing them if they apologized.

He's going to absolutely LOVE Hermes lmao I do too tbh

Fun fact: Aeolus is actually wind or at least is depicted as the wind in the original story or something apparently there’s a lot of different thoughts. Also one thing that Gigi does is know how to add artist interpretations that break your heart for example when Odysseus is dreaming about his wife and son, Telemachus’s face is scribbled out because Odysseus doesn’t know what he looks like now since he left when Telemachus was a baby 😭

Telemaceus face being blurry is because oddy doesnt know what his son actually looks like

I've made this joke before on the actual animatic's video, but Odysseus gave a youtuber level apology there. He never even apologized, he just tried to justify his actions. The least you can do is say sorry to the God of the Sea for blinding his son.

Unfortunately, however pretty it sounded in Ruthlessness, what Odysseus did was an excuse/justification of what he did to Polyphemus, and not an actual apology. Not that it mattered, Poseidon was going to murk him and his men either way. "The line between naivety and hopefulness is almost invisible."

600 men, 12 ships, 50 men per ship. 6 crew from Odysseus’s ship + Polites died so 43 left on that ship. Poseidon sunk just the other 11 ships.

Fun fact: in "luck runs out" you can hear Aeolus' flute when Ody sings "this is the home of the wind god". Mental image of her listening in and playing her flute, thinking of how to cause a little chaos

The entire shot of Posidon as a dark horse kicking up the waves was amazing. Just the sheer horror on Odysseus face is perfect

Some suggestions for the animatics of the circe saga, since there aren’t a lot that available with the now completed songs, for “puppeteer” I suggest gigi’s animatic, for “wouldn’t you like” by Ximena Natzel, for “Done for” by AnniFlamma, and for “there are other ways” (there aren’t much with the full song yet) by juu

In my opinion, Poseidon is less mad that Polyphemus is hurt, but more so that Odysseus blinded his son and led his siblings to believe he's a liar, but he's willing to kill an innocent infant child. His ideology of ruthlessness makes him think that leaving his son to live the rest of his life blinded instead of being at least mercy killed is the worse outcome. And plus, I dont agree with Odysseus being genuine about that apology. What his "apology" boils down to is him syaing "We didn't MEAN to hurt your son, he forced our hand" and that is not an apology. That is deflecting blame, and while it is true that Polyphemus is at fault, deflecting the blame to the son of the god demanding an apology from you is not exactly smart

Telemachus’ eyes are blanked because Odysseus hasn’t seen him since he was an infant. So he doesn’t know what he looks like older.

"Is there ever a time when Odysseus has thought about something before doing it". Yeah, when he dropped that fuckin kid off the wall!

Honestly my take is that Poseidon took that as an apology, but was NOT going to let him live if he did, which is why he called him naive, like no dude you are gonna die anyway

“Keep your Friends Close” is one of my top favorites, excited to see your reaction Aeolus is my favorite character by far, her carefree attitude and talk singing is amazing.

I took him dropping the baby as "you're willing to kill an innocent and helpless child, but won't even finish the job with a cyclops who's trying to kill you and has slaughtered your men'. That also brings more sense to the "sense of false righteousness" accusation.

What makes the bag opening sadder is if I recall the story, they were within sight of home when they opened the bag

“Mortius, the horse is back.”

It’s so frustrating because they were so close to Ithaca’s shores that it was literally in sight, before Odysseus’s men opened the bag! They were so close!!!

25:33 Poseidon asked for an apology, at no point during this song do the words "I'm sorry" leave Odysseus' lips, he's also straight up lying by saying he didn't take pleasure in Polyphemus' pain because he mocks him at the end of "remember them", he revealed his name so Polyphemus knows who blinded him, he called him a beast, and tacked on the "I am your darkest moment" as a blind joke for good measure, everyone has their own interpretation but I don't see anything Odysseus says here as genuine, to me he's just being his old silver-tongued trickster self also for the next saga, I recommend waiting for anniflamma to finish their animatic of "there are other ways", there are very few animatics of the full song and all of them exclude a very important detail about a scene that takes place in it, anniflamma kept that detail in the wip from a few days ago so it'll probably stay in the final piece as well

When I hear "reeks" I think of odor/stench, so that begs the question, what _does_ false righteousness smell like?

It was 43 left alive at the end because he saved Oddyseus and his ship for last, he was gonna kill them all but he wanted Oddyseus to suffer first.

Honestly idk why the animatics show him as so happy when he opens the bag. It might be the way he says it but I imagine him more so as having an attitude than being happy or relieved.

I think a lot of you in this comment section are misunderstanding Poseidon. Even if Odysseus had apologised, he wouldn't have spared him. He was repeating the lesson Zeus had taught him (with the infant), that Athena had taught him (with Polyphemus), that in order to survive you must be ruthless and merciless. Odysseus' fatal flaw was holding onto his compassion. An apology would not have saved him. Odysseus didn't bother with an apology and immediately defaulted to using his 'silver tongue,' because he saw through Poseidon, not because he was too prideful to apologise. And Poseidon saw through Odysseus, calling his hopefulness naive. Athena also called him naive. Zeus countered all of Odysseus' hopeful suggestions to spare the infant. The gods know better than the humans in Epic, which Athena passionately exclaimed in 'My Goodbye'. Because in the end, it is being ruthless that gets Odysseus home. I think Jorge meant this to be a pivotal song in Epic, but so many of you are hung onto the idea that none of what happened later would have happened if Odysseus had just apologised. Even Poseidon from myth is petty - an apology would have meant jack, and the both of them knew it.

Here on the waiting list✋🏼 Might write something new tomorrow! But while we're at it- Jay recently annoucend on his platforms that the next saga (The underworld saga) will release on THIS 26th! It's also the end of act 1 so- get ready!!👻

For the Circe Saga you have to react to Puppeteer from Gigi! Hers is incredible.

It may just be because of my love for Hamilton, but to me, when Odysseus says "All I gotta do is open this bag!" Jay's voice sounds like Lin-Manuel Miranda. Also, Poseidon's "WHAT?!" reminds me of Lil Jon.

Circe Saga. - Pupperteer / Gigi and Ximena Natzel - Wouldn't you like / Ximena Natzel - Done For / Anniflamma - There are other ways / Gigi and Anniflamma (It's incomplete... there are no finished animations for that song, so you'll have to listen to the animated half and the other half from Mr. Jalapeño´s channel)

Poseidon sounds like an angry surfer dude who gargles salt water, which makes perfect sense for him

Something I noticed when I first heard the song "Keep Your Friends Close". Aeoulus actually says "And if you WIND you'll get what you're yearning". Just thought it was a nice little pun 😁

"the line between nativity and hopefulness is almost invisible." Line with those strings is SO AMAZING, and I love this animation Poseidon stepping on Odysseus's ship, and all of the callbacks from Poseidon mocking Odysseus, it's so good~ 👏 Also, Ximena Natzel's pupeteer is awesome :D

I love keep your friends close it s one of my favorites song so far BUT I CANT LISTEN TO IT , when odysseys says NOOOOOOOOO !!!!! My heart shatters …. The despair in his voice is just heartbreaking

How did I just realize the parallel in the animatic between Posideon dropping, supposedly his son, while toying with Odysseus’s guilt of doing the same to Andromache and Hector’s son.

THE CAPTIONS HAVE COME AT LAST!! Gigi is amazing for doing that fr :) I also REALLY need that so same struggle there 😅😅

I recommend watching Gigi's animatic of "Ruthlessness", the one who made the animatic for "Keep your friends close" that you watched in this video. She gets a lot more action from Poseidon and it feels really full of movement and transition through the whole thing. Also, the way she animated the final scene was a lot more in-line with the tone of the moment I would say.

I'm sure somebody else has pointed this out already, but the reason Poseidon keeps attacking is because Odysseus never actually apologizes. He gives an explanation, a reason as to why he wouldn't need to give an apology, and phrases it in a way that makes him sound sorry, but he's just using his silver tongue again. Poseidon sees right through it.

Drawing the baby parallel is so conniving of Poseidon. (And the animators genius) He’s mocking Ody’s “false righteousness” because he wouldn’t kill the Cyclops who was trying to murder him and his crew but he would kill a tiny innocent infant. “You totally could have avoided all this if you’d just killed my son” like you killed Hectors child to avoid a scenario like this. Not to mention that Ody frames sparing Polyphemus as a ‘mercy’ when in reality he left him blind and unable to defend himself and stole his easiest source of food. It wasn’t mercy it was revenge for the death of Polities. He wanted Polyphemus to suffer when “ruthlessness” may have been a preferable outcome. Also he never does apologise - his pride is his mortal flaw. He brags to a cyclops after being dishonourable - not just by maiming him terribly but remember the lotus wine - he never truly gave Polyohemus a chance (he always planned to knock him out and steal the sheep). And I think the animator does a good job of showing how Odyssey isn’t being genuine here either. In his little “monologue” about “we meant to harm” you can see the plan forming to use the bag. His little smirks and smarmy “I think I’m smarter than you” face. He is just buying time. Something about the little trill in “we took no pleasure in his pain” strikes me as the musical indication that he isn’t being genuine. It sounds like lying to me. And lastly I think it’s interesting to note that he never apologises for or sings “I’m sorry” for killing hectors son. Instead he says “forgive me” which is laughable to request in such a circumstance. It was all about making himself feel better.

Odysseus didn’t apologize. Additionally, “Remember me! I’m the reigning king of Ithaca!” from Remember Them and “Remember me…” from Ruthlessness. Watch Puppeteer by Gigi. He hadn’t seen his son for 10 years, he doesn’t know what he looks like. And yes, considering what Odysseus will go through, his death would have been mercy from Poseidon. Oh, and the next saga is Circe saga, so a fellow reader of Percy Jackson knows what will happen.

The reason why Telemachus is blurred is cuz ody didn't see him grow therefore he doesn't know what he looks like

That "Remember me" was another reference to the Polyphemus situation. Odysseus said that to him too.

I loved the Ruthlessness video. It is incredible! But a cool little minor detail Gigi's adds is when Odysseus reopens the bag of winds, Aeolus makes one final appearance as the rest of his men are blown away just before Poseidon sings "Remember me..."

technically he didn't apologize but beat around the bush, avoiding an apolog. Great Video !

Fun fact: in your last video when you heard the "storm" motif, and you said something along the lines of "I swear this is familiar", well in "Ruthlessness" when Poseidon says "I mean you totally could have avoided all this had you just killed my son" you can hear the storm motif, indicating that YES Poseidon caused the storm.

I just want to warn you in the later sagas animation they don't animate the full song so it's best to listen to the official tracks

In the Odyssey, there is a couple other locations before Odysseus meets the wind god. Man eating giants being one of them…but also some people that the crew wanted to plunder. The people had enough support that the crew had to retreat. But they were pretty upset at the lack of spoils when getting close to home. That also helps to explain why they opened the wind bag, thinking it was treasure. Edit: I think the giants were before the wind god…but maybe they were after. 🤷‍♀️

Musically speaking this are two of my favorite songs too - I've been kinda quietly following and wanted to just say that discovering you as you react to one of my favorite series of music out there has been a wonderful experience. You're awesome! Please keep it up.

“All I gotta do is open this bag!” The men who died to Poseidon: You couldn’t have done that before we died?!

Odysseus has this massive ship, and you're trying to tell me he doesn't have a locked chest in his sleeping quarters that should have a lock on the door? That's how he could prevent anyone from opening the bag. LOCK IT AWAY.

Regarding whether Odysseus has taken more than a few milliseconds to consider any action ever: He did, over the first two songs of this series - a very significant decision he spent an entire song figuring out!

I remember when the tiny beings said “it’s treasure, bye bye” i immediately respond with “little shits!” while dying from laughter. The delivery was so funny. Also I love both Gigi’s and Aniflamma’s art

Quick question. Are you planning on reacting to the newest saga when it releases end of April or will you wait until there are animations?

The odyssey is still one of the greatest stories, this presentation is very emotional and beautiful. Gotta check the rest out. Thanks for sharing.

I’m so excited for you to get to the Circe saga, it has my favorite song in the whole musical (“Wouldn’t you like”), and I think you are absolutely gonna adore Hermes

Fun fact: The name of the person who plays Poseidon is named Steven Rodriguez Jr. The person who plays Polites is Steven Dookie. The two people who represent both sides of the Ruthlessness vs. Open Arms debate at the center of EPIC's theme are both played by someone named Steven. And I find that hilarious.

One of my faborite consistencies in the entire series is Odysseus' moments of "...what?" Just, confused. Also the foreshadowing of Luck Runs Out, into the "friends turn to foes in rivalries" and some... future knowledge... oof

Try tea with honey in it for a sore throat! Also: Odysseus had 593 people with him when he encountered Poseidon. ... Poseidon killed 550 people.

Your utter shock and horror at “Die” was so good. Like it is for moments like this that I love reaction videos. Thank you for sharing. I already knew what was coming when I listened the first time, so thank you for letting me experience it vicariously through you.

No time for consideration, Odysseus storms Full Speed Ahead!

8:14 gives Aang (from the last avatar cartoon) 22:56 Fun fact - Posedao (Poseidon Mycenaean Greek) his form looks kinda like horse that would run on the waves of the ocean to bring storms and bring the souls of the dead to the underworld

Also worth noting that Aeolus’ back up singers are called winions. I have nothing to add to that, just to say it’s delightful.

The crossing out of Telemachus' eyes is basically saying that Odysseus doesn't know what he looks like.

i thought id point it out but no one ever seems to notice; 'ruthlessness is mercy upon our -" always gets cut off by 'captain!" so ruthlessness is mercy upon our _captain_. such fun lyricism!

28:24 I love this because the dude threw me off guard I literally said "WHAT???" Only to hear poseidon be as confused as I am lmaooo

I'm so glad you pointed out that shift right before Poseidon yells "Odysseus"!! I've listened to this so many times but somehow never picked up on it, now that I have, it gives me chills.

Poseidon dropping the infant is such a hurtful touch

I think the baby posiden holds then drops is to mock how odyssesus was able to drop the baby from horse and the infant (in front of his mother no less) but couldnt kill a CYCLOPS.

in the earlier video where you were very confused about who the wind god was, i immediately wanted to ask exactly how much of the percy jackson universe you read LOL :D great video! you're probably my favourite reactor for epic so far

The Eye thing with telemucus during his dreaming in the friends song is probly because he doesnt know what his son looks like after a decade roughly of time passing

It SEEMS genuine, yes. But then you realize that, 1, he wasn't apologizing, he was making excuses. And 2, if you look closely, in the animatic, as he finishes speaking, you can see his smile grow ever so slightly. In a sly, cunning, and deceitful way. As if he thought "gotcha" JUST as he finished speaking, and had to fight to keep his expression from becoming a full blown grin. Poseidon realizes this, and that more or less completely seals Odysseus' fate. One detail I love after that is how, right after, when you get the Poseidon POV shot with him looking down on them, you see Odysseus' eyes fade away from his face, leaving it pretty much blank. Personally I read this as Poseidon closing of what little humanity he may have and going full God mode. A sort of "Well, I gave you the chance to lighten your punishment, and you tried to weasel me. What happens next is on you, and I'm not gonna feel a lick of guilt over it."

The reason why Telemachus’s eyes are blurred out is because it’s been so long that he doesn’t know what he looks like 😭also dis is anni daughter and i love your vids so much ❤❤❤❤

The wind god is actually a guy but jay interpretation of aeolus as a carefree yet mischievous God so he got a higher volume to match thw character!! Fun facts: aeolus has 6sons and daughters but for epic aeolus children was replaced by the winions!!

Since there aren't many animatics for a couple of the songs from the Circe Saga, I'd suggest you check out Jorge's official Circe Saga listening party video that was held on his RU-vid channel. It covers all 4 songs and includes on-screen lyrics, a unique animatic for "Done For", as well as live action visuals for different segments. That way it can tide you over until more Circe animatics are released :)

"Deal" -Mortius immediately gets mad 😂😂😂😂😂😂

A super cool detail I really love is when Odysseus starts dreaming, Penelope actively moves him to try and keep him awake everytime he tries to lean on her to rest as she softly chants “Just keep your eyes open~”

If you didn't notice aeolus said "and if you win you will get what your yearning.". But it also sounds like "and if you wind you will get what your yearning." Like a oun cause she the wind god. Intentional or not i like it.

Odysseus can be aggravating at times, but if this were D&D, the lotus wine and "All I gotta do is open this bag!" moments would earn the player Inspiration. It's so clever.

I know the correct lyrics, but for some reason, when I just had a different tab open, "Sometimes sneaking is a must." sounded like "Sometimes singing is a must." I do have a harder time processing things if I'm just hearing it, so that just shows how important subtitles are for some of us.

I don’t know why people in the comments keep saying Poseidon would have spared Odysseus if he’d actually said “sorry.” Poseidon wasn’t ever going to spare him and his men. It would’ve gone against his whole philosophy about ruthlessness, hence “Ruthlessness is merely upon one’s self.” He was just toying with Odysseus, giving him false hope and mocking his naivety. Simply a predator playing with their prey.

No one has mentioned it yet, but the line "the line between naivety and hopefulness is almost invisible" alludes to the fact that Poseidon didn't really intend to let them go even if they apologized. He was just playing with them.

I really don't think the reason Poseidon attacks is because Odysseus didn't apologize. He was always going to kill a bunch of Odysseus' crew. The whole song is about how being merciful is stupid and will always come back to bite you. Poseidon is trying to teach him a lesson, and you can't teach a lesson by letting the learner be an exception, that defeats the point. And Poseidon isn't merciful at all. He's KNOWN for being ruthless. When he says "The line between naivety and hopefulness is almost invisible" Poseidon's essentially showing his disbelief and disgust for how stupid Odysseus is to still think apologizing is going to be enough for the god to let him go after this WHOLE song telling him why that mindset doesn't work. Poseidon's whole "unless, of course, you apologize for my son's pain and all his cries" is meant to be a test, of sorts, to see if Odysseus got the message and understood his lesson, but he didn't, and that just made Poseidon all the more annoyed.