OG Tekken is insane. 

It’s not super common, but a frequent concern that often gets brought up with Tekken 5DR (or really even Tekken Tag 2, another Tekken with notably strong movement) is that if movement is as strong as it is here, then it presents a balancing/gameplay pacing concern because it becomes so much harder to push offence on your opponent. I really appreciate that you took the time to do this analysis, because it showcases the best argument against that concern: powerful movement doesn’t prevent you from conducting offence in Tekken, it *turns movement itself into offence*

Phi this vid is so FUCKING COOL and this is what i want from high level player creators more, actual analysis of high level play. Ive SEEN match replays, i play them myself, but it aint everyday i get a treat like this. I don't play Tekken, i tried, wasnt for me, but I live for this shit. I hope we get more intelligent analysis like this, shit like this is how you get players to actually understand and think about how these games work, rather then just throwing emotional opinions out as fact. Also your energy here is great, I love how much you love this shit.

Oh god this bring back old memories and the obstacles we needed to overcome to get just decent in this game. Only the OG will understand the stress in breaking 1+2 grabs. so freaking fast.

Bro, seeing a character run up to you that quickly is just anxiety inducing 😂 Movement back then was scary to deal with, damn

I was around for the arcade era,a lot of you that started with 6 or ttt2 likely wouldn't have been able to handle it. You really had to be good back then and every game cost! You couldn't cheat with a lag switch or rage quit or choose who you wanted to play.

From Peppegen 7 to Kekkuga 8 with overpowered launchers all over the place and +5 to +7 on hit lows and mids on block that frame trap into nh/ch launchers that also track and prevent movement. What a series.

Prime Knee is arguably the best player to ever do it! Like a freaking machine

Yep, T7's problems are: Too good properties on many moves: Everything either ch or nh launches. And then also these nh/ch launchers(electrics, all magic4s, nina qcf1, etc) recover as they were pokes with low reward, like jabs and d/f+1s. Then there are power lows like Bryan's qcb3 that deal big damage and give big frame advantage on hit. And then most moves also track both sides, of course.

I've seen this fight when it originally happened. I saw Speedkidkcs breakdown and I've never understood the fight like this. I don't know what I was watching before this video.

Gate keeping is good, I have seen too many games and franchises ruined because they opened the gates.

Man I miss late night T5 battles with my cousins on the weekends

We need a tekken collection, with all previous tekkens for pc with online. Atleast tekken 4 and 5dr. So we can have some different tekken for a change

Tekken 5 Fans: TTT2 combo damage is dumb, Tekken 5 combos without wall:

Awesome video, such an interesting analysis

This is why TTT2 is still my fav game: it better movements like T5 but more a modern game

people want to play their mind games with attacks and not movement since its more intuitive. fighting with your attacks makes sense to players, fighting with movement does not. If tekken 8 can do a good job of helping players feel confident about moving, then they will really be on to something. Tekken movement is the only system that no other fg can compare to.

Interested if you still think tekken 8 has this better movement you where hoping for. I think for me it does but I've come in and out of tekken but never really played ranked before so probably my opinion on the previous games doesn't hold much value.

They’re calling us gatekeepers because we want our game to remain the way it’s been to open it for people that will be gone in less than a year 🤷‍♂️

To this day, no one can convince me DR aint the best Tekken ever made. Truly was an incredible time to be a tekken fan. I must admit, 8 seems to be the best tekken since BR/DR. Hope Qudans returns to play Devil Jin, The fighting game community needs a reminder how Peak of a fighting game Tekken actually is.

Sad that Tekken Team wants to try to stop some of these mind games in Tekken 8. That’s half the fun!

IMO tekken 5 dr and tekken 6 are the two best tekkens because you need to put more effort to win. Tekken 7 is a simplified version of tekken 6. They made everything easier to input and the hotbox is larger in tekken 7.

If you made this comparison prior to anything Tekken 8...

pog

People are supposed to use their brain while playing Tekken? Oh...

They know they can't do a Tekken DR with rollback for steam because a bunch of people will stop playing T8 💀

Tekken 8 being dogshit in terms of movement and anime ass mechanics would be fine if tekken had the same legacy options sf players and gg players have, watching this footage is just depressing because I wanna be playing this not a shittier version of this for 60 quid

Forward dashing is fun until you do it into an Akuma d3 clean hit range.

Knee was fucking cracked

I hope we get this as a series, reviewing legendary VODs of old T5DR/T6/Tag 2. Could use some guests too 👀

Movement IS gatekeepy though. *And that's a good thing.* Fighting games imo need a balance of easy to pickup, hard to master mechanics and tricky to pick up, even trickier to master mechanics

DR is the best Tekken ever made. I'd kill for another Tekken game like that. Or even a 4K remaster of it.

These dudes are cracked to this day. Neither of them are exactly old men but they are pushing their 40's. You'd think their reflexes would start taking a bigger hit than it has.The core tekken 7 systems have done more to harm their gameplay (however slightly) than age has.

Genuinly infuriating that we have so many people fighting against a competitive in-depth experience. I am afraid that we will have the same experience with T8 as we do with sf6 right now. A great casual experience that receives tons of praise making the game seem great on a surface level, but then a whole bunch of problems at the higher levels and an overall garbage ranked/competative experience.

the concept of ranges = attacks is so sick, super important in melee as well

You really get it, and I think this is an important video for people to see to understand what older Tekken had that's missing in the formula. I don't want gimmicks to be the answer for the Stale-ification of T7, but more thoughtfulness.

Tekken is actually just the coolest thing ever cause of stuff like this, the amount of little things that go into all of this is insane

I think it's worth noting how much actual game play is happening. No cut scenes or over drawn cinematic. I fucking miss DR so much

Prime Knee is arguably the best player to ever do it! Like a freaking machine

T5 was the most "Tekken" out of all the games. You definitly had the most freedom in all aspects of the game. Unfortunately when I played it years ago I was way too shit to appreciate that :D

This what u call a content and that is what u call a fighting game and lords of fighting game. They doin more math, psychologicaly and hypothesis than a math teacher. W content keep it up.

If you like vids like this, check out Aris breakdown of some Tekken Tag 1 matches and Tekken 4 matches. Super fascinating stuff before he went full stoner lol

I loved this game! My favorite Tekken by far. I still remember me, my roommate, and Anakin holding 3 of the Top 5 positions on the online leaderboards for a loooong time. Great times!

Please analyze Knee vs Qudans at Tokyo Tekken masters T7 where Knee picked Lili. You can also look at the run up to that moment. That would be sick!

Speedkicks has sum great vids. Very insightful

There was a time when I watched a T7 match and I laughingly said the game looked 2D. This video explains exactly why in a very entertaining way. Thank you.

Great video, Phi. I hear people say "they nerfed movement" a lot, but there aren't a whole lot of analytical videos about the differences across games. I'm curious about how it was changed from 5>6>TTT2>T7, and what other system changes contributed to the feeling that movement got a lot worse.

The insane thing about this game and the high level players playing at that meta is that these players can adapt in the span of literally a few micro seconds. It's like playing chess at light speed. Many casual observers and even long time players cant appreciate that kind of insane hand eye coordination and quick thinking on the fly.

I loved this video! And would love to see more detailed breakdowns in the future. I do want to provide some pushback however in terms of the narrative of this video. Mainly, in Tekken 7 we've gotten to see the meta revolution caused by Arslan and other Pakistani players. I can't say for certain as I only casually played DR, but from a post-arslan meta perspective, it seems to me that a lot of the gameplay between knee and qudans had some waste/excessiveness to it. For example, knee's approach to qudans hinged on reads that was carefully set up around a jab/movement mind game, but watching arslan (or ulsan) now for example, I think he would have been much more forceful and oppressive on qudans mental stack, forcing string and frame mixups on top of movement and adaptation. But maybe this is only possible because of the strength of characters in T7, not sure

19:40 In Tekken 7 it's impossible to ss anything after holding to your guts like that. Such hit stuns immobilize the player. Also later 19:54 an impossible step. F4 would track.

I pray Murray and Harada don't see this shit. They're probably wondering what else to take out the game

All the tekken games been broken after 5, 5 was the best and truly skilled tekken fighter

What's also worth mentioning is Knee moving around and trying to mess Qudans' head up and bait hiswhiff using Bryan's taunt cancels.

omg that side step into jet upper was beautiful. I miss this style of Tekken so much

there is just so much jailing bullshit in modern Tekken. The technicality is essentially lost.

I am so sick of the 1 forward dash 2 backdash T7 meta. 3D movement is fun, just let me move.

Sometimes I wish I was born 10 years earlier so I could've been active when DR was about. Need this game on steam

I used to really hate the KBD and thought it was a stupid mechanic. But now I realize it's place since it adds risk to backdashing consecutively. If people could backdash quick af and block the whole time that would be lame. Also, being able to actually do it comfortably now makes me a bit biased in favor of it, lol.

this may be the greatest analysis of high-level play i have ever seen. hands down.

This is the type of stuff that got me into Tekken. Good video, Phi.

This is frame by frame analysis, that's the very best and super fun. Awesome. Thank you.

Excellent breakdown. Been praying at nights for T5DR on PSN but I think the good Lord is too busy perfecting his KBD.

it would be awesome to get more analysis of OG tekken, though that's probably hard to do without having been an OG hence why Speed's first video is so important

With the context of Tekken 8 it really does make a lot of sense from Bandai Namco PoV on how they made being active in the game more rewarding. No offence to either of the players here but being a spectator of that Knee vs kkokkoma would be much less hype than say AK vs Farzeen from Combo Breaker 2024. That set was insane.

Do an analysis on Gordon Ramsey's burger

This is a fun Tekken. Pure skill and movement gets you the win, not this today's joke of what tekken 8 is. Fucking rage arts and heat system, people not caring about distance and frames, just mashing rage art on the 5% health to finish their enemy as soon as he starts a move or is doing a mixup, because the rage art player sucks and don't know how to play the game so they rely on boosts

Thanks, Phi! I surely couldn't have read the same suubtitles on my own.

I'm thinking yeah, that's cool and all, problem is you have to be at top 1% to understand and appreciate these things. We need a slower game for us mere mortals if you ask me. one where the slowest jab is 14frames or something

That "hypnosis confidence" search history made me LOL :D

Movement is cool, in any fighting game. Don't you ever call it gatekeeping.

Should have grabbed a Knee vs Nin match instead. Whatever happened here, is way more exaggerated in their exchanges, even in T6.

Yessir im from the ol g era, can def feel diff when playing online lol some newer ppl dont know how to fight if they cant get a juggle.

Being an old boomer that played in tournaments during T1 and T5DR it's awesome seeing you watch old Tekken and analyzing how different of a game it was than T7. I told my friend after playing the beta for T8 that the sidestepping reminded me more of T5DR.

Great video! You really explain these concepts super clearly, I feel like I've learned something.

i think it was around when noctis was introduced that i remembered kinda disliking the direction of t7. stuff like noctis ff1+2, king ff+1 and asuka ff+3 were all these big mids that tracked and were safe on block just kinda made it scary to approach. i think asuka's ff+3 was buffed around that time too if i'm not mistaken D:

This game is a lot more interesting to watch than t7/8. Does anyone still play t5?

Extremely smart breakdown of this match. Admittedly I didn't understand this back then, but wow. Excellent video!

This is a different level I never see it like that

The best tekken requires most skill . Movement is everything in this game.

this is effective when playing with high lvl player not with yolo player.. 😂

coming from T8 a few months in, it did not deliver on any movement promises

Do Jang Iksu vs Park Yong Tekken Tag 1❤

been putting out bangers lately mane. god bless.

Tekken 5 DR is probably my favorite Tekken. Watching Knee's Bryan, Quadans' Devil Jin, JDCR's Heihachi, and those old Tekken Zaibatsu combo music videos by Castel, the best times for me.

I MISS REAL TEKKEN LONG LIVE T3 Tag1 & T5 honorable mention Tekken 2 i love you

jang iksu tekken tag 1 is the og footage battle of tekken

Og tekken best tekken, no bullshit just fundamentals. DR just need a final balance but movement and moves are amazing. Also no special moves, rage art, heat etc

a beginner here: I don't mind movement to be a key factor in this game. I even like that concept. The only "problem" I have is things like the korean backdash or any animation cancellation for that matter. Not the resulting options it gives the player, but the input requirement and the training. To me it feels like you want to get good at something like bowling and the developers of the bowling ball put the 3 holes in the ball (normal back dash) but left in a 4th hole by accident which would allow you to dual wield the bowling ball but you have to stand in an unnatural and hold the ball in a weird position. I don't critize the player who learned the technique and got to the point of executing strike after strike, but I do find it weird that the developer would not consider the dual wielding of the bowling ball a viable strategy and design the bowling ball around that strategy. but, oh well. I still enjoy the game (Tekken, not bowling) at my own rank. Maybe it is that it fascinates me that they leave all these animation cancellations in and made it a feature instead of a bug. I can even understand if you would say that Tekken got its success because of it. That the extended learning curve to get better at the game that comes with it, is what keeps the game interesting for so many different players :)

after viewing the t7 analysis in this vid it seems like t7 would benefit from being played on a shorter timer, the pressure of time running out is what leads to the eventual 1/3 damage lol. i think if we had 40 second rounds like t3 it might help get the aggressive play that the devs want without crazy mechanics.

Great breakdown, really helps explain the classic "Tekken 5DR was the last great tekken" that you hear from time to time.

I don't get why you have to try to convince anyone that movement in Tekken is cool. I don't think anyone's saying Tekken movement is boring. That's just stupid.

“I’m glazing” took me out

watching and learning how actually important movement is in tekken outside of 7 and what it looks like in 8 im realizing im gonna get super washed when tekken 8 comes out.

I wish they’d bring back things like 8f jabs and get rid of rage arts, a far more interesting way to differentiate characters.

Top tier content as expected Phi, hope to see more :)

Your breakdowns of Tekken are so entertaining thanks for the entertainment man! From a fellow Noctis main 🫡🫡

This game seems faster than t8/t7

Try SC6 you will see real 3D movement

But with DR tier movement, wouldnt moves have to be low commitment in order to be good because the risk of getting stepped is so high?

T5DR Online heads... who remembers Ziggyfield? lmaoo

7 was the most nerfed tekken ever