. I had one of these '62 JetFires back in the day... metallic red (Honduras Maroon?)/red interior... don't recall any recalls ever on them... kept mine till late 1960's... the fluid was just water to cool the engine combustion while under boost, the alcohol was just in it to prevent freezing in winter... in summer, you could just use water... a gallon of Turbo Fluid (~$3.50) lasted about a month (the way I drove it as a teenager)... before modern antifreeze (ethylene glycol) was sold, all cars used ordinary alcohol in their radiators to prevent freezing... the JetFire's advanced all aluminum V8 engine had special forged pistons and special rods with high-strength bolts with 12-sided/star heads, and prolly a forged steel crank since that was about all Olds used back then... it could have been the 'Buick Turbo GNX' of it's day, but Olds limited RPM to about 4600 with weak valve springs ( I found to my dismay after I added a tach) and the heavy turbo didn't spin up fast enough in 1st gear to provide boost in 1st... they used high compression with the turbo to keep MPG up in regular driving, it got about 25+ MPG at 75 MPH, better than about anything else available back then... notice the weak shocks in the video when it comes to a stop in the construction area, car bounces about 2 or 3 times before settling down level, kinda typical of shock performance back then, they should only bounce once or, better yet, half a bounce when reaching a stop... it was exciting to see the gauge needle go over to the boost side and feel what happened to power and acceleration (in 2nd and 3rd gears) when it did, just like in this video... even in high gear, the front of the car stayed up, then dropped suddenly when the lifters pumped up and the engine could rev no higher... it was actually a fairly simple system and any knowledgable mechanic or shade-tree do-it-youselfer should have had no problem tuning or fixing it... such a cute car, wish I had kept it...
BuzzLOLOL The 215 aluminum engine was a Buick engine. Olds had their version with different holes for the heads, put their own heads on the engines and put their own induction system. Normally asperated the engine was the highest compression engine Buick ever mass produced. However, the blocks were part of an engine that was supposed to be in a low cost car. But the aluminum castings were costing Buick more than it was worth; they had to throw out many unacceptable castings to get a few good ones. So after just a few years of producing them for Buick and Oldsmobile the engine tooling and design was sold to Rover who put it in their little cars. Later Rover was split into 2-companies, one for coupes and sedans and one for the Landrover. The Landrover company got the Buick Engine and used it through 2005 (I think). It was the Buick version with the L-head design. Rover increased the size a couple times, and did other things to it. In about 1960 Buick engineers took a cast-iron 264 V-8 and cut off 2-cylinders. They used this for making a mold for a V-6. They cut off one throw of the crank and did similar things to the cam and heads. Buick's new V-6 effectively replaced the aluminum V-8 and through today, with multiple changes, has been used by several divisions. Some books say the aluminum V-8 was made into the V-6. But this would not be plausible. A 264 CI eight with 2-cylinders gone would be 198 CID. And that's what size the first Buick V-6 was.
Daniel O Carey ... The Buick 215" aluminum V8 was developed around 1950 and was first seen publicly in a 1952 Harley Earl Buick concept car... it's early design was apparently the reason it got shaft mounted rocker arms instead of the Pontiac-designed stamped steel rocker arms like the '55 Chevy got... ALCOA was pushing automakers to use aluminum in engines and all aluminum Chrysler Slant 6's were also made for a few months... I think Rover dropped the Buick V8 about 2000 when it became German owned and got German engines... but the aluminum 3.5L V8 lived in the aftermarket and got enlarged to 5.2L/318"... earlier, Jaguar apparently used the Buick 3.5L as the basis for their 1960's V12 as it had the same peculiar way oversquare 3.5" bore x 2.8" stroke... earlier, English engines were way undersquare...
BuzzLOLOL I believe the 1938-39 Y Job Harley Earl concept car used a 320 CID straight 8. That car is known as the very first concept car. A 3.5 liter Aluminum V-8 in 1951 powered 2-concept cars, the LeSabre and XP-300 of which you refer. Both cars had this supercharged 335 HP engine, I believe. But I didn't know it was the same V-8 used later on the Special and F-85 since the head was radically different. And we know that Olds had their own head design for the F-85. But I went to Rover in 2004 and had a look at a Land Rover that was powered by the L-head Buick design made bigger. And this vehicle was brand new. The dealer told me the next year would be the last one with that engine. The Range Rover used a different looking aluminum V-8. I assume the Land Rover next got that engine. Jaguar using the Buick engine is news to me. I have liked V-12s in various cars. But I never had a warm place for the Jaguar V-12. I thought of it as a monster I'd never care to work on- even though I have a grease pit in my garage. I didn't know about the Chrysler aluminum slant six either.
+BuzzLOLOL - Our family had one of the Jetfires. After problems with stalling at idle developed my parents took it to 2 different Olds dealers in the Cincinnati area. When the mechanics opened the hood and looked it, they had that look of deer in the headlights. You could hear crickets chirping in the background. They had no clue and absolutely could not get the car to idle properly. I remember it was a quick little car, when it ran.
+RB Brown .. Yeah, mechanics looked the same way at early mechanical fuel injection and EFI... The Jetfire simply had a 1 barrel carb. and responded to the same repair technigues as any other carb'd car... (clean fuel filter, clean float bowls, etc)... I got a steal many years ago for my '79 Cadillac Seville from a local auto repair shop since they had no clue how to work on that early EFI... they thought it had TBI and I looked for it at first, but discovered it was PFI... blowing air backwards through a plugged injector while electrically jumping it open cured the 1 MPG it was getting when I bought it... I tried that after Cadillac told me a new injector was $150... and it has 8 of them !!! Liquid gas was actually dripping out of the tailpipe while it was running... 20 gallons of gas gone in 20 miles !!! OUCH !!!
beeman4266 Yeah. I have old car brochures. And the most disappointing ones are for the Saturn. Open them up and see flowers and a few words about freedom and the breeze.
They installed a water injection system from the factory which helped. When the tank was empty it would automatically limit boost. Many people didn't like extra maintenance steps though.
This was during the era when Oldsmobile was marketed as "The Rocket Action Car." The 215-cubic-inch (3.5-liter) all-aluminum V8 was one of the smallest engines of its type ever developed at the time, and the block would be the basis for the Repco 3.0-liter V8 engine that powered the race car Sir Jack Brabham drove to one of his three Formula 1 World Drivers' Championships.
. Turbo Fluid was water w/ methanol to keep from freezing in winter/prevent rusting... .. Turbo gauge said 'Fluid Injection' on it... .. Left side of gauge is vacuum, center -0-, right side is turbo boost pressure... . These early turbocharger setups used large, heavy turbos that didn't spin up very quickly, provided little or no boost in first gear because the turbo couldn't keep up with engine revs, but went into full boost in 2nd gear, making 2nd feel as strong as 1st... redline 4600...
Awesome! Thank you episodes of American Muscle Car on Netflix for bringing me here. Olds was just way too ahead of things with this introduction, and obviously underestimated customer disgust with maintaining another fluid level onboard. Today might be a different story, but nothing this risky by today's standards would ever make it this far into production, and that's kind of sad, but kind of exciting that something this innovative was actually put to market once in history.
Today's customers won't even check the antifreeze and engine oil level... I repaired a neighbor's 2005 Malibu, it didn't have any oil or coolant in it by 60K miles...
If only they knew at the time that turbochargers would revolutionize cars. Turbos are still changing after over 70 years since their introduction in WWII
Yes, 52 years ago, Oldsmobile was held in high esteem of producing powerful engines that were desired by the buying public. This was before the EPA rulings, before the Oil Embargos, and further restrictions by the EPA on all auto manufacturing. Fascinating to look back to see what we use to have available in the marketplace.
BuzzLOLOL True. But I have been thinking about that. Buick advertised about the vertical valves as though this was better for wear. And it is true that even Chevrolet used this engine in some of their pick-ups because they fit easier in a narrow engine compartment. But the move from straight eight to the "V" needed some kind of a bridge. The old guard loyalists needed something to keep them buying Buicks. So perhaps the new V-8 in 1952 (Sept) could sort of look like a straight eight with a large offset and the appearance of vertical 4s. When looking at an L-head I can see possibly a straight eight.
I don't know if Chevy pickups ever used any engines except Chevy engines, but GMC pickups (eventually about the same as Chevy pickups) used Olds and Pontiac V8's for their bigger size before Chevy came out with the larger 348" and 409" truck V8's... Don't recall any Buick V8's in GMC pickups and the aluminum Buick wasn't used in USA pickups. I used the Buick version of the aluminum V8 in my MG Midget because the wider Olds version had the valve covers blocking access to the sparkplugs in the narrow engine bay...
Alot of "Racers" have used water/methanol injection kits for years, particularly on force-fed engines. The results from cooler air temps are more noticable on a blown motor than a normally aspirated one.
It's what's refered to as a 'wet turbo'. Most turbos on cars are oil cooled only nowadays. Wet turbos are still used mostly in heavy machinery, marine, petro and gensets.
The turbo jetfire had serious problems. The factory had a massive recall and offered to convert them over to conventional no-turbo with 4 barrel carb. As a result almost none of the turbo versions exist.They had detonation problems which is why the "jet fuel" was needed. Too much hassle. Sort of like the Caddy 4 6 8 and early fuel injection such as the 1957 Rambler Rebel. Very few in original form survived.
The aluminum 215V8 was a lemon, and the 215 turbo version even worse. American Motors Nash-Rambler however succeeded in building a 6 cylinder aluminum engine that was both reliable and durable. Rambler took the extra step of sleeving the cylinders. The Olds 215V8 and Vega are two examples of designs that compromised reliability and longevity in the interests of saving money. .
***** In 1962 an aluminum engine was considered a cheep version of something good. Corvairs had an aluminum engine because it was better in the rear. And they got nearly 200 HP out of a 164 CID engine. That was effectively 1.1 horsepower per cubic inch- rare power in an American car (1.55 HP/LB). And the Buick 215 was a reliable engine in the hands of a conservative driver. With the Oldsmobile configuration of their own heads and induction system the company was throwing caution to the wind and forcing a little weak engine to make a lot of torque and horsepower. But Rover, who bought the engine from Buick, used that engine through 2015 with good results, and in a big LandRover. But I did not know that about the Ramblers. I admired the Marlin and some others. But their in-line sixes sounded quite awful to me. I was just a kid. But my impression of the worst cars in the world were first the Rambler with flat-head sixes (I guess they were flat-head) and Falcons. I worried for people who were going for a trip in a Falcon. I hoped they'd get there w/out trouble. But I certainly didn't know everything. And the Buick aluminum V-8 sounded to me quite loud and frail. I suppose it was. But to this day I have a love affair with the Corvair. Can't help it. My father was a little boy when the Ford model A was introduced. He never wanted to own one as an adult. But that sound they made stayed in his mind in a happy way. For me it was the Corvair- especially the turbo. I have one, and love it. But maybe that's just me. I also fell hard for the Hudson cars, especially their large six.
Daniel O Carey ... Maybe the aluminum V8 you heard was actually the Buick V6 used at the same time... it was loud and horrible sounding and shook back and forth about 6" when idling because it was an odd-fire V6 (V8 with simply 2 cylinders removed, ran like a V8 with two bad sparkplugs)...
BuzzLOLOL Well, no. I knew better than that. But you're right about the V-6. But they are still in use today after many refinements. In '77 the 3-throw crank was replaced with a 6-throw at 60 degrees each. Later a counter balance shaft was introduced. And fuel injection and electronic controls and multiple coils. I have one now that has transported passengers nearly 300,000 miles w/out ever needing major work. It doesn't burn oil or much fuel. I can get 38 MPG at 60. What a car (36 @ 65). The V-6 though was never loud, as I observed it. I have had close association with one uneven firing in a Skyhawk, and 2-even firing ones. They're the strongest engine I have ever had in use. But the Buick aluminum V-8 was loud because it was aluminum which does not insulate the sound well. Cadillac Northstars are loud too. But both Buick's aluminum V-8 and iron V-6 have made great runs at Indy. And it was gearing instead of engines that stopped them.
+1949kf - The Buick/Olds aluminum V8's used iron cylinder sleeves, the Vega 4's didn't... Never heard of Rambler offering any aluminum engines, but might have since ALCOA was pushing automakers to use aluminum... I know Chrysler offered an aluminum version of their Slant (straight) Six engine for a couple of years... never seen one in person...
1949kf Not at all...the 215 was great. It only went away to consolidate engine production but was purchased by Rover who kept building it until about 10 years ago! The Olds version especially was less temperamental with wedge heads instead of hemispherical.
My parents owned a 1962 Olds Jetfire. It was light blue with dark blue interior. After they had it for about a year, there were problems with the car stalling at idle. They took it to every Olds dealership in the Cincinnati area, but no one could fix the problem. They soon traded it in.
The "Turbo-Rocket Fluid" was a mix of water, methanol, and a rust inhibitor", the MAIN reason for the mixture wasn't for "freezing in winter/prevent rusting"--it was to utilize the methanol fluid to decrease the intake air temperature and keep the 10.25:1 compression V8 from pre-detonating under boost. Normally, it had a max. of 5 lbs. of boost WITH the "Turb.Rockt. Fluid". When the "Fluid" ran out, a mechanical system would step in and lower the available boost to avoid detonation.
Amazing a Turbo and Meth Injection! Only if owners of this car would have paid more attention to the "Rocket Fluid" running out! Only a gear head back in those days would've understood. The average person had no clue back then. I'm sure if they had "synthetic oil" back then the turbos would have lasted. That and the addition of an intercooler too!
0:26 Love the Jetfire, but this commercial... "True High Compression Performance" ? Uh dude, it was 62' when high compression was common and readily available. That line would be more at home in 72' than in 62'.
Kinda reminds me of the urea tanks on some of the newer "eco" diesels. Though they're reputed to flat out shut down if the tank remains empty. Progress? Gimme the old shit I can figure out and fix with a test light and few hand tools.
The turbo wasn't reliable and there were many problems. My parents had a light blue Jetfire and after a couple of years, it began stalling at idle. They took it to a couple of Olds dealers and the mechanics would look at it and just scratch their heads. They had no idea how to work on the engine/turbo. Unfortunately, they traded it in on a very ugly, but reliable, Mercury Comet.
+Jason Wilson .. Can get better turbos now on eBay for almost nothing. 1,000 HP for $1,000: www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ccrp-1009-cheap-turbos-from-ebay-on-a-350-small-block-engine Never had any problems with the turbo on my JetFire back in the day... but did melt the engine down when ran out of Turbo Fluid while under full boost... it had 10.75:1 compression ratio for good MPG when not under boost!!! .
A lot of it was likely oil coking. Without synthetic oils and the understanding of how hot a turbo gets, shutting down with the engine hot would coke the oil and restrict or block oil flow
I do not share your opinion of the 215 being a lemon, i have owned three of these aluminum "Rockette" powered f85's and had no engine trouble whatsoever..say what you will but they took any abuse that i dished out.
D Von Krup I am glad to hear that Buick engine with Oldsmobile heads and induction system was tough! I liked it better in the F-85 Cutlass than in the Skylark.
They used to "suck" because they did innovative things back then and not everything was perfect. Now they suck because they build crappy mainstream junk. Things like 30+ years using plastic components that distort and leak at tens of thousands of miles, can't even make it 100k without pissing coolant and oil. Garbage Machines.
