Thanks JP. Excellent chat. I really wish I could get some folks I know to watch this. They're not really interested in discussing the real world, though.
Thank you for the insightful talk with Chris. I found it particularly thought-provoking. In my life, I notice how cult-like behaviors can manifest in wellness and fitness contexts, including martial arts studios, yoga studios, gyms, etc. One question that arises for me is whether the presence of a code of conduct in such settings could be seen as an indicator of cult-like dynamics. For instance, martial arts studios often have guidelines, like requiring members to shower, remove jewelry, or avoid unsupervised sparring for safety and hygiene. While these rules serve practical purposes, I wonder where we draw the line between enforcing safety and creating an environment that might promote conformity or control, as discussed. In my own practice, I use a code of conduct to ensure safety and address foreseeable conflicts. However, I would appreciate your thoughts on how, from a philosophical perspective, we can design rules or have strategies that promote safety without fostering an overly controlling environment. I’m particularly interested in any historical or ethical approaches to this issue. Thanks John and Chris.
Well Jonathan you really stirred up the Maga's with this one. It was obvious back in 2015 that there was a cult forming around Trump, and he happily embraced it.
Chris is absolutely right What the USA needs is a lot more political parties so the extremes of left & right can not hyjack the major parties . IMHO the US constitution and thus the political system was designed by wealthy business people to create a system of government that was always subservient to business . It has desperately needed a "purple party " to represent the sensible centre . Forcing people to either identify asa republican or democrat is so divisive it is destructive . A decade or so when I met an American they would describe themselves as a "occupation" from a " particular state " However now days they will describe themselves as being a "state" republican or "State" democrat as if their political affiliation was more important than being an American . Where as when I meet an Australian they never use their religion or political persuasion to describe themselves . In fact last week I was at an event with around 100 people many I have known for over 40 years and I would still have no idea of their political persuasion or religious beliefs , if any .
Yes, a center-right and a center-left party with rank choice voting and a mechanism for coalition between them. I miss the days when people split their votes for the best candidates on both sides.
My mom pointed a book out to me in a library once called: Financial Founding Fathers by Robert Wright. In it say's the U.S. became financially strong in 1800 from 'Cheap Labor and some Resources.'
He ended his playlist with November rain and I believe it was November reign was the inspiration. Has anyone listened through the whole list yet to determine if he was telling a story through the songs?
The traditional position of extreme left and extreme right is since long identified as 'Total/tar/an', but I think that Islamism (NOT the religion of Islam itself !) is total/tar/an as well. I see so many similarities in the power structures, the lifes&rights (or lack thereof ...) of followers and leaders looks to me like it fits into the same pattern. By the way, I love the fact that Chris is using the same words and concepts to describe cult-stuff that I use to describe total/tar/an stuff in politics/history. To me that shows the strong relation and overlap of this two seemingly not related things. I come from politics&history, not sociology, but if you start with one you'll sooner or later learn about the other as well, plus psychology to understand the whole picture when it comes to people. It looks like the conclusions that I've drawn over time add up very well with what Chris Sheldon described here. The overlap between 'Total/tar/an' in politics&history and 'cult' on a personal scale is so big that they can be seen a the same, or at least very similar. The main difference is the scale, the number of people involved. I have always wanted to understand how Auschw/tz has happened, I was born 30 km away from that, in communist Poland, so in a 'softened, former total/tar/an' state with the outlook of a full horror total/tar/an state (3.Re/ch Germany) in front of my eyes (my family owned an apartment block in the infamous town). Thanks for all that input and clarification today ! I consider my personal quest of understanding demagogy and 'social fire-starting' (the original German phrase is 'Soziale Brandstiftung') resolved now, once and for all. And here's the outlook for the future: People, be careful now, there are people in power or raising into power that might go down the same paths again that were responsible for death camps, reeducation and Total control over societies. It's the Putins, the North Korean Kims, the Ayatollahs, to a certain point China's Xi, and their tools, the Trumps, the Farages, the Orbans, and these tools tools, people like Tim Too ... ah ... Pool, MTG, political parties like AfD, Rassemblement national, MAGA. And they're all working more or less to together to shatter the rather nice-to-live world we live in today and replace it with their version which - well - might not be that different from the world many of our grandfathers had to fight to bring down leading to millions of dead and destruction on a scale not experienced before.
A lot of this comes down to the split between a humanities based education & a science based education . Unfortunately teaching people that nothing is real unless it can be independently verified in their late teens if way too late because the vast majority of people have already been brainwashed by being forced into their parents religious beliefs to accept certain things that can never be proven as unquestionable truths . As such they can not accept that there is no overall controlling factor and things just happen because of the decisions some one made . We have had lots of interesting conversations when I have said that "there is no meaning of life " we are here because of an accident of evolution , we have no higher purpose . Humans are just another animal and the only one that serves zero purpose on the planet and if we vanished there would be zero negative consequences . This is why the potential for mutual nuclear self destruction does not present any fears for me, in fact it is a prospect that I rejoice in because the planet will start to recover from our greedy destructive ways the second we cease to exist .
11:21 Curious if studies have been done on the effects of play in regards to this in/out groups stuff. I know play has been studied in rats indicating that it’s an essential function, so how could that be feeding more polarized applications in greater society in the othering issues?
Could the lack of acceptance of the self from society without conformity to stereotype expectations be creating a “Stockholm syndrome” in which they cling to the system that they have conformed too that has potentially made them live a life not suited for them personally, but is seen as successful creating rewards for compliance not character?
Re: "Let's Go Brandon" Joe Biden and his policies are profoundly unpopular with nearly 50% of the US electorate. That percentage ranges even higher in the crowds at most sporting events. When Biden dared show his face in sports venues, he was met overwhelmingly with boos. On one occasion, the crowd started an enthusiastic group chant, of "F__K Joe Biden". A young female newsperson who was doing a standup during the sport event said concerning the chant heard behind her "They're chanting 'Let's Go Brandon' " "Brandon' was the name of one of the players in the game being played. The modern MAGA chant is a celebration of the absurdity of the mainstream media being in the tank for Biden while also being able to express the sentiment behind 'EFF Joe Biden" without being profane. Your pronouncement that this is a slogan that turns off rational thought indicates a moral and intellectual smugness that says more about you than those who support Donald Trump's candidacy. I suspect the typical MAGA fan's sentiment is more nuanced than that of the typical Trump Derangement Syndrome victim.
@@WhizzRichardThompson You have no idea apparently how I came to my political opinions or even what they are. Your knee jerk ad-homin speaks to some sort of mind control techniques were used on you.
Chris’s “professional” opinions obviously mean nothing in regards to Trump given his Trump bias. He has even gone so far as to out himself by tweeting: “There is hardly anybody speaking out openly in the cult field about Donald Trump. @CultExpert and Bandi Lee wrote books and that helped. Yet there has never been a bigger existential threat to the US than the cult of Trump. “ That being said he is an interesting case study on how people use positions that were traditionally “authority” positions, like so called “experts” in a field, to amplify propaganda for political gain. Always remember, secondary education just means someone is further indoctrinated. It’s probably the most shameful thing I’ve ever done in my life was accepting that nonsense to get through school but the mafia that is the government forces those ghouls into being the gatekeepers of being able to earning a higher income (to force social compliance). It’s part of what Elon and RFK Jr. need to fix with their social reforms!
@@ATPGeo sure. But it doesn’t mean he is right. It’s just an anecdotal observation on his part. Him being educated in England is another data point why I would never trust his analysis on something like this.
@@issttaabbrraaqq Cutting 75% of the regulations in government and 80% of the workforce for starters. Also making America healthy again. Gotta get the seed oils out of our foods. Most importantly abolishing the department of education and instead giving that money directly to the states.
Good stuff. Emotional thinking needs a lot of focus in our education systems. Faith (being an emotion) needs to be challenged as a core response to life. I visited friends (a family in France) again recently and asked a teenager what her favourite subject was these days = philosophy. I almost laughed instinctively, it being such a French trait to philosophise, but the laugh would have been on me. Is there a more important skill for children to learn than how to grapple with concepts and come to conclusions for themselves?
