I love your videos. This one was difficult to watch because the Persian & Kurdish words weren't formatted properly; also the Kurdish way to write 'hebû nebû' is ههبوو نهبوو.
@@NakariSpeardane Thank you so much! The letters need to link together, but they were also written left to right instead of right to left. I know some applications like photoshop can't do it properly (I'm not sure why) but notepad and textedit do. Also, I cannot wait for more about the floofy domesticated wild dogs!
@@NameLess-bm8jp Thank you! I was so happy that my usual font was able to display the characters that I didn't check it was displaying it right - now I know to check that better in future! I think the left-to-right ones were on Wikipedia like that, which is... unfortunate :/ There will be dogs... eventually :3
@@NakariSpeardane Also, and this isn't a negative criticism by any means, just some info from someone who has a first hand experience with these fairytales))) 4:37 The most common Russian one is "There lived and was/were", it's a rhyme, that introduces the characters right away: жили-были - zhili-byli (plural) or жил-был/жила-была - zhil-byl/zhila-byla (singular masculine and feminine forms). It usually is either the very first thing you see or comes right after stating the time or place (or both), for example: давным-давно (a very long time ago/very long-long time ago), в некотором(some)/тридевятом(three-ninth) царстве, в некотором(some)/тридесятом(three-tenth) государстве, which is pretty much how you translated it with the exception of how you translated царство, which means kingdom/tsardom, and государство, which means country, the point here is to not just state a fantastical place, but also make the "address" contradict itself, since kingdom and country mean pretty much the same thing. You're basically saying, that the story is set in the place A, while at the same time saying, that it's set in the place B. Often times some is used instead of three-tenth and three-ninth, but both are fairly common, with occasional combination of the two: в некотором царстве, в тридесятом государстве - in some kingdom, in three-tenth country. Also, what did you mean by a tense, that kind of died out at 5:55? Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like the regular past tense in Russian. Maybe I understood you incorrectly? I absolutely love your videos, thank you for making them ❤️
I’m Cuban and the ending I’ve always heard and repeat to the kids I tell them to is “colorín colorado este cuento se ha acabado, pero el tuyo ni ha empezado” “red goldfinch this story is finished but yours has yet to begin” I like it because especially when you tell it to kids it has another layer of wonder to it.
I would have liked to see a mention of "Long, long ago, in a land far, far away" as this is a primarily English video and it hits so many of the characteristics you mentioned- spatial distance, temporal distance, and repetition.
I really enjoyed pausing the video every time a new phrase came up and trying to pronounce it the way I might say tell the story to a toddler with that funny nursery-rhyme intonation. Especially the swedish and icelandic ending phrases.
As a native Dutch speaker, we don't use the elephant version that much anymore, it's usually 'en ze leefden nog lang en gelukkig' (and they lived long still and happily), but I personally prefer the elephant version. I also think I heard a different version of it a few times as a kid that used a pig with a long snout instead. Might be a difference between Flanders (where I live, the Dutch speaking part of Belgium) and the Netherlands proper. I wouldn't know. We also sometimes use 'toen de dieren nog konden praten' (when the animals could still speak) to start a story, but that also significantly less common these days than boring old 'er was eens' (there was once).
I also just remembered an alternative that I adore. It isn't really used for fairy tales, but it's similar enough. Kid shows (especially shows made *by* kids) will sometimes start with 'dames en heren, appelen en peren, boeren en boerinnen, de show gaat beginnen!' (ladies and gentlemen, apples and pears, farmers and famers wife's, the show is starting!). With shows I mean mostly litteral shows like a puppet show, or a kid doing some magic tricks for their parents. It's meant to be funny, mimicking the standard 'ladies and gentlemen, the show is starting', while also rhyming in Dutch. It might also be worth mentioning that the word 'boer' (farmer) in Dutch has connotations of rudeness and being improper, so it's meant to contrast with the 'ladies and gentlemen' bit.
The cat in the bog reminds me of a character from Russian folklore who's primarily used as a framing device for stories. He's a Professor Cat who's connected on a golden chain to an oak tree, spends his time telling stories. The oak also has mermaids in it's branches. It's not a direct connection, but since there are mermaids in the the trees I always assumed that this oak is by water and Russian mermaids are often found in bogs and swamps.
As a fairytale\folktale lover, this video was super interesting! And as a Romanian, I definitely got WAY too excited at seeing my language represented lol (7:10). What I find funny is that besides the ending in the video, some stories also use "Și încălecai pe-o căpșună și vă spusei o mare minciună", meaning "And I rode on a strawberry and told you a big lie"--which I think is really interesting, because it conveys almost the exact opposite of the other commonly used ending. I guess it depends on the storyteller's mood lol
Oh that's a really interesting one! I didn't think of there being different and basically opposite options. Is there any pattern with which stories get which ending?
@@NakariSpeardane That’s an interesting question actually! I’ve never really thought about it, but from the stories I’ve read (and from what I remember from my childhood), I think maybe that particular ending is used more often when telling stories to little kids? Since they’re the most likely to be entertained by it. I definitely remember thinking it was the funniest thing ever when I was little lol
There is one in Italian, which is not much known today, and it's something like: "The leaf is broad, the street is narrow Tell yours, 'cause I've told mine" Of course in Italian it would rhime.
the finnish version, "olipa kerran," means "well, there was once..." the word "olipa" (oli, "was" + -pa) is a little hard to translate, since the -pa suffix serves a number of different purposes in finnish, but in this case the best way to translate it would be "oh, it was" or "wasn't it" or, like i said, "well, there was." the word "kerran" has mostly lost the meaning of "at a point of time in the past" and now mostly means "at a single point in time," being the accusative/genitive form of "kerta," which means "a single instance of something." oh, and i actually really love our version of "happily ever after:" "sen pituinen se." it's a VERY finnish phrase in aesthetics, and i would classify it as the kind of phrase that just has that sort of finnish energy that can't ever really be translated or even understood by native english speakers, a feeling of finality and relaxation. i would translate it as meaning "as long as that, that is" or "that's about as long as it [the story] is," although literally it means "its length, it [is]."
There is also a czech ending that falls into the third category, ad it is "a zazvonil zvonec, a pohádky je konec." which would mean "and than the bell rang and the fairytale is over" , where bell isin an archaic form, now just zvon is usually used. And really good video again
Speaking of wedding endings, my grandpa used to end his tales with '' bio sam tamo i pio puno vina, i još mi je jezik mokar '' which translates from Croatian as '' I was there and I drank a lot of vine and my tongue is still wet ''. Also there is a phrase '' čiča miča gotova je priča, doš'o ćika Blaž rek'o gotova je laž '' which I don't know quite how to translate but it would go something like '' čiča miča the tale has ended, and there came an uncle Blaž and said the lie is over ''. Great video btw, I enjoy listening to your beautiful voice
German fairytales mostly use "Es war einmal..." (There once was...) and add "... vor langer, langer Zeit..." (..a long, long time ago...) more often than not. Variants like "Einst lebte..." ("Once lived...") exist as well. Also, the "seven mountains" were used by the magic mirror in "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs" to answer the queen's question, since "Berge" (mountains) and "Zwerge" (dwarfs) rhymes. "Frau Königin! Ihr seid die Schönste hier, Aber Schneewitchen hinter den sieben Bergen, bei den sieben Zwergen, ist noch tausendmal schöner als Ihr." ("Madam Queen! You are the most beautiful here, but Snow White behind the seven mountains, with the seven dwarfs, is a thousand times more beautiful than you.) Endings usually are of the "And if they didn't die, they are still alive today." variety: "Und wenn sie nicht gestorben sind, dann leben sie noch heute." Variations of living happily ever after are common, too. Negative endings showing the misfortune/punishment of the bad/evil/wrong-doers exist, but they are less common nowadays; or at least less graphical. (For example, "The daughter was led into the forest, where the wild animals tore her apart, but the witch was put into the fire and had to burn miserably." is not really something to be considered child-friendly nowadays, I guess.) They are often contrasted with the fortune of the good to convey certain morals. Archaic terms, old name variants (different dialects), obsolete word forms, etc. were relatively common, at least in older versions. PS: Nice video! I really liked the one with the cat in the bog^^
I never really thought much about the ending "Snipp snapp snut, så var sagan slut", Personally i'd say the first part are just random words but it could be read as "cutting" the story to give it the end, and the rest really just means "and so the story has ended". Its how majority of stories from my childhood ended - some even ended with something similar to "and so they lived happily ever after" ("Och så levde de lyckliga i alla sina dagar") which would mean more "and so they lived happily for the rest of their days" which sounds kind of grim in english haha
American here, I'm from Oklahoma, and when we're telling folk tales or the handful of Cherokee myths that my great grandparents and grandparents managed to pass down to us, it almost always starts "This is the story as I heard it, as grandpa/grandma/great uncle/whoever told me"
Well an apple to you for making such beautiful videos! Just to add something: in Italian we have "c'era una volta" there was a time, and a "e vissero per sempre felici e contenti" and they lived forever happy and contented"
1:32 In Hindi, we also have a more common- “एक समय की बात है” (ek samay ki baat he) translating to “Once upon a time” (literal translation- Its a word/tale of a time)
worldbuilding inspiration: engage! ok so my conculture is definitely going to start folktales with "From beyond the Horizon" or "they came from beyond the horizon." which is the spatial distance strategy. it also signals their ancient nomadic past. theyre going to end folktales with "And you can still find their footprints in this very city.", which implies that they (the protagonist) were actually *here*, but now have moved on. this is the connection to reality ending strategy. now i just gotta translate these. edit: wait i just thought of a way to like, introduce archaic-ness to this whole thing. where prefixes and suffixes were understood to "exist" in language changed. first, they were considered separate from the stems and later became conceptually fixed to them. so maybe they werent technically affixes at first. anyway, this can be seen in "Otolae" or, horizon. this is how it would be "spelled" (the orthography in an alphabet) in normal speech. but in the folktale opening it would be "O Tol Ae". separating out affixes as particles like that would seem very old-timey to audiences.
Oh, I was actually even eating an apple while watching this! It's interesting just how many ways you can begin and end a tale. So many creative phrases!
The version for Russian I heard was "жили-были Давным-давном", which directly translates to they were living a long time ago, a long time ago a long time ago
I like the German ending phrase I learned from German class in school, "und wenn sie nicht gestorben sind, dann leben sie noch heute." And if they didn't die (in the story), then they are still alive today!
I guess Niger-Congo languages must have the same general format for this cuz my language (Igbo) and our neighbors start with what can be translated to "story, story" and the audience replys "time, time".
In Japanese there tends to be repetition; むかしむかし、あるところに (Long ago, long ago, in some place) andめでたしめでたし (I don’t know how to translate this, but it might roughly be “Good fortune, good fortune” (in terms of “good fortune for them?)?). You can also see reputation in onomatopoeia and other things often, so I guess we just like repetition?
Fascinating stuff. I've got a collection of Nart Sagas (from the Caucasus region) and I've noticed they seem to rely on temporal phrases. It's recognizable stuff like "Once, long ago," "One day, long ago," and the more distinct "This happened in very olden times" and "In our land, in the age of the Narts". I'm not sure if it's an introduction exactly, but I've also seen from one Circassian ballad that while they initiate the framing device with "In the time of the Narts...", the poem itself begins each stanza with "A woreda-woreda, a woreda-rau". I figure it's either setting the scene or a literal intended vocalization, but I haven't been able to find confirmation on either theory.
Can verify the "Es war einmal" phrase for German. There is also a longer version, "Es war einmal vor langer Zeit...", which means something along the lines of "There was once, a long time ago,..." And, I can see how it might be from the brothers Grimm, because as a child that's where I always heard the phrase. :] Edit: Adding to this for the ending phrase, I don't read or listen to fairytales anymore but I'm certain that we have the ending phrase "Und wenn sie nicht gestorben sind, dann leben sie noch heute", which fits in at 6:46, as it translates to "And if they haven't died, then they still live today"
okay i have something to share. so, in the anime Shoujo Kageki Revue Starlight, the story, themes, and characters are intimately linked with a musical called "Starlight" based on an in-universe book called "The Starlight Gatherer". The first page of this book is shown on screen and reads: "This is a story of a nearby and distant planet, It is an epic of ancient times, a drama of the far future." essentially using three(!) of the five folktale opening strategies discussed in the video! spatial distance, temporal distance, and contradictions! i think this is very interesting. also watch Revue Starlight it's really good.
This was a really interesting video! Really handy for conlanging. As a native speaker from Spain, the first one I thought of was "Érase una vez", which is essentially the same as "Había una vez". Había una vez x = there once was x Érase una vez x = x once was (in weird grammar, nowadays if you were to make that phrase it would be "era una vez"; the "se" here gives it a really nice sonority and slightly arcaic feel) As for "Colorín, colorado, este cuento se ha acabado." I had no idea it was the name of a bird xd, if it even is. I think here the words are just used in a more basic meaning: "calorín" as in the diminutive of "color", meaning "colour", and "colorado" meaning "red", so it'd be "Red colour, this tale has ended.".
I'm wondering if you're writing anything (book...) with your worldbuilding. Or are you just worldbuilding for fun ? Also this was an awsome video, and I'd be curious to see what the custom phrases are in your world ^^
5:48 I would say that "upon" is still used in day-to-day language, but I can't since the only evidence I have is through personal experience. I have recently used it to describe an image for my Physics homework. Here is the passage, in verbatim: "The ray of light shines upon the mirror, illuminating the paper from whence it was reflected."
The "word" for once upon a time in telugu is అనగనగ which is literally the repetition of the word "mean"(as in meaning)twice Meanmean . Iloveit😂❤ Omg i didn't realise it's already in the video 😂😂😂😂
There is also ఒకానొకప్పుడు -one time ago ఎప్పుడుఎప్పుడో-whenwhen? (it's like a long time ago you weren't even there) Also we say the letter అ or అఆ so as to let the teller know we are paying attention and to continue the story I remember my grandmother and grandaunt used to pinch me when inm not replying back with the a sound and tease me they'll stop until i say the letter 😂❤
Who knows if you'll read this comment Nakari, since the videos is old, great video by the way. In Italian we have an old-fashioned rhyming story ending. "Stretta è la soglia larga è la via dite la vostra che ho detto la mia." The gate is narrow, the road is broad, tell yours for I've told mine. Meaning it's hard to begin a story, but easy to go on, and it's time for the audience to tell their own tale. Over time, "soglia" (door) got corrupted into "foglia" (leaf), so the phrase has evolved into rhyming nonsense (the leaf is narrow, the road is broad) which is the version most people know. People also switch around randomly "narrow" and "broad" all the time, since it no longer makes any sense.
In Hindi, we use the phrase "एक बार की बात है" considerably more than "बहुत पुरानी बात है" which means something along the lines of "This is the talk (story) of one time," so it's rather similar to "Once upon a time." I am a native speaker, and, on a similar note, I have a lot of experience with Hindustani stories; and most often, the only "fantastical" parts of most folktales here are speaking animals, this was most likely influenced by the prevalence of the tales of the Panchatantra, the Jataka and Aesop. Other folktales just have... folklore and stuff. Also, stories about wits are pretty common. Akbar the Great and Raja Birbal, Vikramaditya and V/Baital (from Vetala Panchavimshati), and Raja Krishnachandra Roy Nadia and Bhand Gopal Chandra. I know this is a rather old video, so one may not see this comment, but I am leaving it anyway because I have got nothing better to do than try to sound smart in a RU-vid comment section. Peace.
4:37 The most common Russian one is "There lived and was/were", it's a rhyme, that introduces the characters right away: жили-были - zhili-byli (plural) or жил-был/жила-была - zhil-byl/zhila-byla (singular masculine and feminine forms). It usually is either the very first thing you see or comes right after stating the time or place (or both), for example: давным-давно (a very long time ago/very long-long time ago), в некотором(some)/тридевятом(three-ninth) царстве, в некотором(some)/тридесятом(three-tenth) государстве, which is pretty much how you translated it with the exception of how you translated царство, which means kingdom/tsardom, and государство, which means country, the point here is to not just state a fantastical place, but also make the "address" contradict itself, since kingdom and country mean pretty much the same thing. You're basically saying, that the story is set in the place A, while at the same time saying, that it's set in the place B. Often times some is used instead of three-tenth and three-ninth, but both are fairly common, with occasional combination of the two: в некотором царстве, в тридесятом государстве - in some kingdom, in three-tenth country. Nakari, I absolutely love your videos, thank you for making them ❤️
Another addition to category 5, distancing from reality or at least introducing duality after the "It was and it wasn't" formula: Mallorcan storytellers would usually start with the preamble _Aixo era y no era._ But, as I was just made aware by this video, all the other examples of this formula are from areas far, far east of the Balearic archipelago. Isn't that really strange? Are folklorists aware of this? My source is structuralist Roman Jakobson's long, but really superbly readable and groundbreaking lecture titled "Linguistics and Poetics" (1960). The reference from there was Giese, W. "Sind Märchen Lügen?" _Casiers S. Pușcariu_ 1. 137ff. (1952)
The Russian cat intro a different commenter mentioned is from Ruslan and Ludmila and is by Pushkin, but it’s so good that it’s used everywhere now. On seashore far a green oak towers, And to it with a gold chain bound, A learned cat whiles away the hours By walking slowly round and round. Fairy tales from Russia. A. S. Pushkin: On seashore far a green oak towers. To right he walks, and sings a ditty; To left he walks, and tells a tale... A strange place! There a mermaid sits in A tree; there prowls a sprite; on trails Unknown to man move beasts unseen by His eyes; there stands on chicken feet, Without a door or e'en a window, A tiny hut, a hag's retreat. Both wood and valley there are teeming With wondrous things... When dawn comes, gleaming Waves o'er the sands and grasses creep, And from the clear and shining water Step thirty goodly knights escorted By their old tutor, of the deep An ancient dweller... There a dreaded Tsar by a prince is captive ta'en; There, as all watch, for cloud banks headed, Across the sea and o'er the plain, A mage a warrior bears. There, weeping, A young princess sits in a cell, And Grey Wolf serves her very well. There, in a mortar, onward sweeping All of itself, beneath the skies The wicked Baba-Yaga flies; There Tsar Koshchei o'er his hoard withers... A smell of Russ! Of Russ all breathes there!... There once was I, and the learned cat, As near him 'neath the oak I sat And drank of sweet mead at my leisure, Told me full many a tale... With pleasure These tales of his do I recall And here and now will share with all... This one was popularized by Pushkin too, but it’s probably and actual ending he heard(since his fairytales are based on the stuff he heard as a kid and this isn’t looong). «Сказка - ложь, да в ней намёк, добрым молодцам урок» (The tale is a lie, but it has a hint, a lesson for young lads)
4:36 i've heard in post-1917 russia it has become common to say "in the days of the tsar"... i'm not russian, but if that was true or just a twisting of this phrase, id be interested to know.
I was just about to comment on Bylo Nebylo. There must be an I diam variation as well since Salman Rushdie uses it often in his writing. It has been, it has not been. There was and there wasn't.
