Definitely there are circumstances when it would not be prudent to shoot at that distance on any animal. Thank you for highlighting that since you are an accomplished shooter with quality firearms and ammunition. Great education for shooters.
This solidifies my point I made in his first video that nobody should be taking this far of a shot at a live animal. I'm sure he was 1000% confident that he would make a good shot...yet he did not! We as hunters owe living animals the respect of making the best shot possible. Spend the time to stalk within 300 yards and this shot lands in the vitals even tho your gun was off and you get your elk. You have to hike to the elk after the shot anyways so why not get closer for the shot? The 800yd shot probably fatally wounded it but the chances of finding it are slim. Elk are tough animals and can travel a long way if wounded.
That 1moa left and ½moa high just happened to you despite your very meticulous attention to detail which is a testament to the universal fact that s**t happens. The other thing that happens is that animals move, sometimes suddenly. Bullet time of flight is approximately 1s at that distance… this is a long time for something that is out of your control. I like that you are doing these illustrations because it can show through example how risky long range hunting is even under controlled simulated conditions. Cheers!
Jim at Backfire shared a hunt where the animal moved just as he broke the shot and the animal was wounded. He spent a lot of time looking and could not find it. Driving out on the access trail, he found it, again. This time, at a slightly longer distance but a clear broadside. And finished the job. And people can miss at 100 yards with a perfect gun. it does happen and there is a risk. But having the ethics in place is important. There are two hunters. Those who have wounded game, those who will wound a game animal.
I'm an east coaster. When I go to Wyoming or Idaho to hunt, it is imperative that I confirm zero and velocity. Zero at 400 feet above sea level (home range) surely is NOT the same zero at 5K feet elevation. Awesome series! Thanks for bringing us along!
This a why practice is so important! Well done highlighting the issues with the rifle. I missed a bear at 650 because my scope got knocked off. Things happen in the field.
the poi where you shot that elk is a empty spot in deers, it is the most uncertain poi. if the bullet hits rib, then it takes out the lungs and the deer will die fast. BUT if it doesnt hit any ribs and it is a harder bullet (lead free) it is completely possible to just zip trough and there is basically nothing done to the deer other than harm ! i have seen this.
Depending on the powder, you can see quite a difference in muzzle velocity based on the temperature. Density of the air changes with temperature as well. Those effects could stack with the ES of your ammunition to cause a large swing in velocity and your dope is no longer what you thought it should be or what the ballistic calculator calculated with the numbers it is given. Just a guess at a possible cause.
i do some long-range shooting too. I have a friend who coaches me. we had this same experience too with sometimes shooting high exactly like you did... he swears that a bullet will do a "cold weld' to the case after loaded ammo has set for weeks or months.... for example-with fresh loaded ammo, bullet slides in and outta the case easily and consistently but if it sets for a while it will seize up a bit from oxidation, corrosion etc. even a penny or any type of copper will darken or change color from corrosion over time. this increases pressure and increases velocity in our experience bout 30fps.... he shoots alot and loads enough that he swears that he will always go with fresh loaded ammo on a big long range hunt or competition. he says annealing also helps with neck tension to be consistent.
What temperature was it when you designed your original load? Compared to the temperature you’re at during this video? Also the density altitude? That is very easily a problem. If you don’t adjust for it. I have seen 28 ft./s to 100 ft./s difference between a winter load and a summer load. Cold weather, the bullet flies slower than hot weather. I enjoyed your video. It shows it’s not a chip shot that a lot of these guys think it is. There’s a lot that can go wrong. You owe it to the animal to make a great shot. I also enjoyed the fact you had your son with you. Mine are all old and out of the house but I included them in most everything I did as well. Good job.
Definitely would do a follow up shot. If you're shooting faster it could be a number of things. Different atmospheric c9nditions from when it was developed, temp sensitive powder, even a different lot of powder, primer or projectile could make a big difference. It's quite common for different lots to show variance.
First and foremost, good for you for being a top tier dad and including your son. Hard to tell but his eye relief appears to be very long during his shot. When his scope is at full mag is he able to see the entire sight picture? I'm 5'8" and have a bit shorter LOP than standard. All of my stocks are 12.5 to 13" which is where I need them to see full view at highest magnification in my scopes. With a standard LOP at 13.5" I have to really creep my head fwd so I got a gunsmith to shorten all of my stocks to fit accordingly. Great video and thanks. I subscribed the other day. I tagged 4 deer with two of my 7PRCs this season also. 3 with Hornady ELDX 175s and 1 with ELDM 180. The match bullet performed like any other hunting bullet I've used.
I would be curious how many rounds are through that rifle since you said it has "sped up". Also it might just be a powder temp stability thing for speeding up depending what the conditions were when you crono'd the load before.
At 800 yard, even the ELDX won't fragment much but it may still mushroom. Not sure how low the velocity is at 800. If it didn't mushroom you may have a wounded elk needing a fast follow up shot. That's the problem with long range shot. 30 fps could be just the effect of temperature.
This just shows that at that range there is a lot that can go wrong and when things go wrong the animal pays the price. There is another guy on youtube shooting at a mule deer life size target and out of 10 or so shots he put multiple shots in marginal areas that are likely to wound and make recovery unlikely. Erik Cortina said he is going to try the BF challenge with Jim and BF so we will get a chance to see how one of the best in the world can do. If he can't reliably kill animals at long range nobody on earth can. For what it is worth Erik, said that his personal limit on live animals is 600 yards. That should tell you something, if Erik Cortina is only comfortable shooting animals to 600 yards, a mere mortal should draw the line much closer.
I just saw the part about the rifle shooting faster. That’s pretty basic knowledge for a reloader new Barrels usually speed up around 200 rounds after break in
Also, the distance to the lands is always changing, extremely hot rounds/cartridges exaggerate this alot more quickly. My 22 creed in 230 shots has sped up 90fps.
Been meaning to ask, what are you using for a rifle there Cowboy? What cartridge/bullet etc? Edit: That shot was sketchy. I think that elk would have lit out for the territories. You're better in the wind I guess.
It's been nice watching you practice, hope to do some myself in the next few months. Question though, what is the rangefinder you're using and does it have programmed moa adjustments for you?
Thanks ! Glad you enjoy them. It’s an sig kilo 8k and yes I program it with the BC and speed of the bullet and it gives me true MOA at any elevation and angle.
Things are not as consistent as we all think when it comes to ammo/rifle/weather/rifle hold etc etc etc. Those inconsistencies really tend to show up past 600 yrds. A few tenths of a grain diff from load to load or not sqeezing the rifle consistently due to excitement or even the rifle speeding up from last time you shot it till the day you film a new series. Again, these phenoms PROVE that looooong shots should be avoided and that we can't humanly PREDICT when these anomolies are gonna happen. You definitely would have loss that bull
@elevationrifles lots of advantages could be gained doing it for your own video. And what you did wasn't the same as his. Take him up on the challenge it would be a fun time for you.
That shot equals hours of tracking and an elk that is never found. You hit the "dead zone" just above the vitals and below the spine. I have seen this shot many times in my 46 years. 99% of the time the animal is never found.
Sorry, I have to say that that shot that high could be a lost elk. I’m sure it would die, but how far would he go? And maybe I’m wrong. It’s hard to guess it based on a picture, but that high of a shot misses a lot of the vitals and if he was quartered even slightly it could mean only just damaging the very top of one lung. Your son’s shot could be deadly as well, but also so hard to call. That bullet is falling hard at 800 and is on a pretty steep downward trajectory. Very likely hits those thick shoulder and chest bone and misses the heart entirely. Good shooting by both of you. I don’t mean to sound like a skeptic, just giving my opinion.
I’d say he’s taking few shots getting his dope before videoing starts for sure, not cold bore hunting scenario plus a bullet hole was in lungs on target when he walked down after his “1st shot” Great practice but no way peeps should take shot past 5-600 on animal especially “target bullet” believers with calibers lacking impact velocity at long range!!
Yes I have considered your accusation, and we have no way of knowing other than to trust his word. I think that hole may have been from a few days ago when he did this the first time. As for long range hunting-that is what brought up this series. He is responding to something another guy did regarding testing for what is an ethical shot. So that’s a subjective question. There are plenty of people that shoot long range in big game animals and are very good at it. Check out Stuck n the Rut you tube channel or their website. They live here in north Idaho and shoot animals long range a lot, but they are using high caliber very well built rifles.
He’s def doing what should be done to take LR shots at animals for sure, and I’ve watched those and others videos taking LR shots ethically. I’d never do it cause never practiced at distance past 250yds. Spent yrs trying find a place 500-1000 but live in KY, hard to find, and I have 300rum, 7mag I’m handloader etc Myself, even if I’d practiced at distance I wouldn’t trust myself and all variables that’s me tho. Never been elk hunting, I’ve almost committed to going west but expense and public ground hunting beside 40 other hunters keeps me from making the “jump”. My hats off to the guy especially undoubtedly teaching his son ethical hunting.
I live in north central Idaho. I elk hunt only with a bow, so all very close range there. As a kid my dad taught me how to stalk an animal. I’ve stalked to within 15 yards of some nice whitetail bucks. I personally don’t shoot long range on animals. Longest I think I’ve killed an animal is 350 yards. Also, can say I’ve not got a bullet into an animal and not recover it, but accidents can happen.
Well, that shot killed the elk? Maybe maybe not but for sure you wouldn’t recover it. They are tough as hell and they will go miles with a marginal shot
@@andythies7133 not necessarily. I shoot a 300 win with 200 gr bullets. Killed an elk shot one high like that clipped the spine . It fell over got up and ran . No joke. It took 3 more behind the shoulder. It felt every time and got up and ran. They can be more than tough. I’ve seen other elk drop with one shot from a 7mm-08 rt in thier tracks. However anything can happen. For me I won’t shoot past 500 yards. That seems to be the cut off for consistency in grouping with wind etc. This is just for my shooting and my loads.
Too far for our majestic game animals and too many things can go wrong including the elk taking a step. They call it hunting, get closer, that's why it's called hunting instead of target practice. Work on woodsmanship.
I practice marksmenship out to 400m. I harvest game within 80m. I'd get on my high horse about it but the truth I hunt thick bush were most things happen within archery range, and the deer almost always knows something it up. I imagine if I lived somewhere else my story may be different.
If you practice enough, it isn’t “cross your finger shooting.” You can miss game at 25 yards if the deer takes a step or something spooks it and it spins as you pull the trigger. Heck if you don’t practice and know your gun, you can miss game at 25 yards just because you can’t shoot. I practice at longer ranges to make closer range shots easier. Shoot a handgun regularly at 50-100 yards and the 7 yard shots are all of a sudden a lot easier to make. I feel the same applies for long range with rifles.
So you missed by 20” from an ideal position on a known range with no time constraint. What does that prove? Not to mention that elk is the largest set of vitals you’ll likely pursue and you would have missed over the top of a deer. 99% of people have no business taking that shot. 20% of people think they are in the 1% who are qualified.
@@paulvandenberg5341lol. Rt. Just my opinion most people have a hard time shooting 300 yards. I do practice at 500 and that is my max. Also only if the wind is good etc. a bad shot means less meat for me to eat and a wounded animal. An alert animal is a no go!!!
