He actually has a vid on this. Not sure how long ago. I dwell for 15 seconds w/a timer. Sizing is exact as it can be with a caliper and shoulder bump gauge. Every time every piece if your die is set up correctly. Thanks for that valuable info Keith!
There is only one reason I lube necks, and that is to allow reseating of bullets after travel. That is limited to the 284 in F-Open. For everything else, I travel with fully prepped ammo.
@@ironDsteele I like clean brass but I don't compete. These pros load so much they have to prioritize time. I've heard time and time again, many would just rather buy a new die. I clean my dies often but I have more time on my hands.
Why size dirty brass ? I used to do that years ago , I could not stand the gritty grime mixed with lube inside my good quality dies . It’s also responsible for the longitudinal scratches on the necks . Clean brass equals clean lube and clean dies while sizing . Why expose your good quality dies to abrasive carbon .
@@Accuracy1st That's completely understandable. With machining tolerances and resources they have I'm sure getting another die the same isn't an issue. I'm no pro either lol. I'm just having fun.
I wrote a large order of process I do and it was instantly removed. I deprime, stainless tumble, full length, prime, load powder charge and seat the b (I think this word caused the comment to auto remove).
Bolt action brass directly from the rifle isn't that dirty, but personally I can't get over sizing "dirty" brass in my dies. I even, up to this point, put the cases through a soap and water bath to remove any tumbling dust media, but I don't shoot very often and can afford to use up some time. Interestingly, any neck lubrication you have is taken away during cleaning, so nothing to help ease bullet seating. Thanks for the video, always fun to see what other people do.
I guess why he lube/size/trim before tumbling is to remove the lube so he can reduce some potential seating problems. I myself might add one step using the compressed air to remove potential debris before the first step (annealing) though.
Im similar, I decap, anneal, tumble, size. (The sizing die with depriming tool installed, no expander ball), then etc etc. Thought is less wear/tear on sizing die
@@johnplummer1619 what did I miss? Video is about the order in which you do things. You don't run dirty, gritty, grimy brass into a die that has finer tolerances than wheel bearings. Unless you like ruining dies.
de-prime tumble wash anneal mandrel size with neck bushing trim if necessary or run through brass station dry tumble to clean any residue bag with info note on all dimensions including tools used
Why is everyone still using commercial case lubes??!! I use regular coconut oil (looks like shortening). A very slight amount is needed and it wipes off easily (heat above 80 F to make it even easier!) The residual oil that gets wiped off also cleans up any residual tumbling media dust and oxidation from the cases. Try coconut oil for your case lube and you will never go back to the sticky, stinky, messy, & expensive commercial lubes!
....Copy that, when & if I anneal, I want the brass, (the necks) - inside AND out, to be ABSOLUTELY clean & free of carbon BEFORE annealing,....makes for MUCH more even annealing, thus - more even & consistent neck-tension
As usual, appreciate the videos! A couple of things I caught on. The AMP annealer has an autostart function that allows it to start annealing once brass is placed into the pilot. This saves a little time since you don't need to press the START button every time. It is located under settings and is available on the newest firmware. Also, to speed up the annealing process, you can use TWO BRASS HOLDERS and literally double-fist the annealing process (load and go while the other holder is annealing). Absent an AMPMate, this dramatically reduces your time. Marking brass is helpful when done at the base of the cartridge, around the rim. Over time, you will get ink transfer to the chamber which may produce pressure issues or a pseudo-sticky bolt feeling. These issues are usually found in a wet environment where the case is wet, fired, and ink is transferred to the chamber. This also occurs when shooting in a humid environment (I'm looking at you Impact Foundation PRC and Texas matches...) Other reductions in time include using a die that will size AND mandrel at the same time: Short Action Customs Modular Sizing die with the mandrel (bought separately). Sharing my process, as I generally use an automated Dillon setup (I do have access to a Zero or Nexus, however I hate sitting at a bench): 1. Clean in corncob mixed with NuFinish 2a. Load hopper and decap using FW Arms Decapper (around 800-1200 rounds an hour) 2b. Straight into AMP being fed by AMPMate (the key to get this to work is Dillon variable casefeeder on the SLOWEST setting) 3. Resize using SAC die with mandrel after using One Shot 4. As the resized brass falls into the bin, I pick that up and trim on Henderson 5. (when ready) Feed brass into hopper again, prime, powder charge from dual Ingenuity Precision setups, bullet drop from feeder, bullet seating using SAC The Seating Die. I generally can load, for PRS, 300 rounds in 25-30 minutes. My limitations are filling the hopper and bullets fast enough.
@@winninginthewind All great tips above, agree 100% with not marking the case body and only mark the case rim or case head. I've had issues before too with sharpie transfer to the chamber. Other suggestions, check out corn cob blast media 20-40 grit, it's fine enough that it won't stick in flash holes and you'll save a step having to clean it out. For time savings, you may eventually end up with a Dillon. I've done all my brass prep on Dillons for years (550 and more recently 650). Deprime, size, mandrel all on one pass through. Very consistent sizing, very low runout.
We took our granddaughter to see "Inside Out 2". After watching this vid, I feel like the "Anxiety" character.😂 Just kidding. Great content. It can't be easy being you , Keith.
I debur all of my flash holes on all my reloads even pistol then check / size the primer pockets. The amount of brass that comes out of deburring the flash holes is amazing sometimes.
Removing most/all of the inside neck carbon every time, and then adding dry lube (like NeoLube) before seating seems like a great way to control that variable. Did Greg test that?
Annealing first. Let me just say I believe this too be the most important key too the process for me. All the other stuff you really don’t have much choice in the matter because you can’t trim before sizing really. It literally brought my rifle too life. For years I chanced pretty annealing marks after tumbling and it really almost doubled my group sizes sometimes
For me its wash , dry , anneal , lube with lanolin , decap , resize , mandrel , wash case lube off , dry , and 3 way trim with henderson ... about to try switching to dry tumbling cause double wash and dry is annoying
I appreciate that you don't dictate one process as the only process. I watched Greg's video, and it made a lot of sense, although my process is a bit different. I deprime, clean (wet with small SS pieces rather than pins), lube and full length size (w/o button), trim, clean again to remove any shavings from the trimming. In an effort to get more consistent bullet seating (and release), I dip the necks into Imperial Dry Neck Lube, and run over a neck mandrel. I then use a nylon brush to run through the necks. My thought is that it will distribute the Imperial Dry Neck Lube in a consistent manner to the inside of the necks. This will differ from Greg's process, and unfortunately I don't have an AMP press to determine if brushing the Dry Neck Lube actually results in consistent seating pressure, as I just have to go on "feel". My ES and SD's seem to indicate that the process is working, but who knows.
Relatively new to reloading, but I thought that cleaning brass before sizing was preferred to avoid carbon or other "dirt" getting into the sizing die?
Why trim then expand? I expand then trim. In my mind the oal is final and also the edge is chamfered so the mandrel should go in smooth and easy with no burrs.
I could never see myself annealing dirty brass . After 1000’s of pieces of dirty brass in a period of a few years into the AMP annealer there will be pieces of carbon that will flake off and accumulate. I feel like a clean piece of brass will have a more consistent annealing .
Annealing first yes, but no way would I put that dirty brass near my reloading room. My reloading room is the operating room and it has to be clean and sterile. I run my annealer in the garage, and then clean them. From there they go to reloading room to get the TLC they need for the next loading.
This is all so much different than Benchrest, we don’t ever anneal our brass nearly everyone runs Lapua Russian, we make up 20 new cases for a new barrel and use those cases for the life of the barrel which is around 2000 shots,which is needless to say we load at the matches
I was wondering if sizing the neck after annealing but before cleaning would be an issue because of Any oxidation that happens during the process. I think that's how Primal rights said it.
Yes. Pretty sure he indicated that. Annealing leaves an undesired texture inside and outside the neck that needs to be removed. I just can't remember if he indicated prior to sizing or prior to bullet seating.
I do basically the same thing except I neck turn the cases. Annealing ? That's like voodoo for consistency and placement for me. I've finally have a process I use because I'm an old NM shooter with barrels of 308 brass on hand and I convert it to 6.5Creedmoor but I've collapsed hundreds of cases experimenting with time, temp and placement on the shoulder but I think I have something that works and I resize with a .002"-.003" bump. Glad to see that quality brass can be readied without overthinking it.
Thanks, as always, for all the great content. I would advise a warning for folks who don't shoot fancy F-class guns with extremely tight/controlled tolerances: at least a light cleaning before putting range brass into a die may be advised. I know Erik Cortina also doesn't clean brass before sizing, but I've also known reloaders, who have ruined dies with scratches and stuck cases (THE worst way to spend time). I'd rather stay on the safe side and clean brass a bit too much, rather than too little. Shorter barrels, gas-impingement, and suppressors each magnify the need to clean brass. Just my 2 cents to help those of us on the less-experienced end of the reloading spectrum.
I saw in the comments on his video where Erik C. said that if he ruins a sizing die, he'd rather just buy a new one and continue his process as is. I don't know if all these competition shooters feel the same way but I'm guessing they do?
@@Accuracy1st Yeah, I recall that. I'm certainly not in that camp, and I just want to warn newbies that this is highly specialized advice. I try to incorporate these gentlemen's methods whenever possible, but not this one. 😆
When you shoot in a match, you take it out of the box, pull the trigger and put case back in the box, or on your mat. If the neck is sealing, the brass doesn’t get dirty
@@Patrick-xd8jv Point taken. I'm not trying to 'debunk' Keith's methods; I'm offering input for less experienced shooters, possibly shooting gas guns with suppressors, on how to avoid mishaps with dirty (really dirty, not simply 'fired') brass. I think it's fair to say, "If your brass gets dirty (especially with something like sand), it should be cleaned BEFORE it goes into your sizing die."
I've done it both ways, decap in a universal decap die that doesn't contact the case other than punching the primer out, then anneal and vice versa. I've seen no difference as long as both of these are steps 1 and 2.
I use a Giraud trimmer as well, I clean my lube off first. Do you get lube buildup in the cartridge holder? Super fast way to mark cases is with a spray can of Dyekem layout fluid.
Great tip! There is some transfer, but since I always trim lubed cases, it doesn't cause any serious problems. I wipe them out with a cotton swab occasionally.
Do you do that with brass that is shot out of ARs? May sound dumb asking but most my brass is very dirty after shooting with ARs. Hope you get time to answer👋👋👋
I use range pickup brass in the 223. That stuff can be filthy. I do have to go above and beyond to get it clean, especially if it's been sitting in the rain a while.
Nice video funny how those processes get complicated and fairly simple again over the past 40 years !did notice can of Redding imperial sizing Wax leaning against the in line fabrication base is that for the necks?
I didn't at first until I started seeing that dust/lube build up in the dies. Either way you'll add time to the process. You can wipe off or rinse off the dust before sizing, or you can size them dusty and just clean your dies after each batch. Or don't worry about it at all. I clean my dies frequently
3 hours in the tumbler 😳 ….I accidentally left mine in overnight and that was the end of my primer pockets - had to throw them all out - so its harsh way to clean if left in too long - im now switching to ultrasonic cleaning which can clean better in 10 minutes and not get bashed around
@@wayne9903 hi Wayne - after leaving them in the tumbler all night accidentally it wore out the primer pockets - i was putting in the primers and they basically fell in - one of the brass i just tapped it on the bench and the primer fell out - so i use an ultrasound cleaner now using dishwashing liquid and a small amount of lemishine - but after resizing i do put them in the dry media to get the wax off for 15 to 20 minutes max
As a hobbyist long range and benchrest shooter and reloader for 30 years, I can admit when I'm out of my depth. Can anyone elaborate on case dwell time in the die.
Brass flows, has spring back. When you size a piece of brass, say, the old fashion way, run it up, pull it out, you allow more flow/spring back immediately. When you run the case into the sizing die and leave it for several seconds (I'm anywhere from 6-10), you obviate the full potential of that brass flow and the goal is consistent shrinkage with much less flow
For the love of god hopefully the decapping is done with a dedicated decapping die and not a sizing die . Again decapping with a sizing die is another way to introduce grime and abrasive carbon to ones good quality dies .
How much wear does full length sizing dirty brass cause on your dies? How often to you need to polish or replace them? I don't shoot all that often but I've got a batch I'll be shooting this weekend and might give the not cleaning until after sizing and trimming thing a go.
In over 10 years of using these dies, I've never had to do anything to them or replace them. They are hardened steel, so a little grit isn't seeming to cause any harm.
Roughly every 50 rounds I wipe a sizing die out with a dry paper towel, then spray brake cleaner in it, wipe that out, then wet another paper towel with G96 synthetic oil and wipe it throughout the die, then dry paper towel again. Takes about 1 minute if that
