Origen: The First Christian Genius 

Brilliant. As always. It's beyond me why Centre Place don't get millions of views. Don't ever get jaded - keep up the great work!

You are a treasure of knowledge-giving. Thank you very kindly, John!

This is why i love RU-vid thank you

Thank you dear sir thank you for your hard work G- d be praised for your gifts

Excelent presentation. Thank you John.

I have never heard a lecture or debate on the Greek and Jewish “alliance” or shared intellectualism facing the Roman Empire as viewed as subjected peoples. We don’t allow The Hebrew kingdoms to belong to a Greater Phoenicia, nor do we center history on the Phoenicians, but if we did, conceptually, it might be interesting. Carthage and Greece itself fall to the Romans in the same year and the arrival of Roman administrators begins trickling in (or pounding in) over the next few hundred years, all recorded and remembered at the social elite, educated level. Makes you wonder what is going on in this context in a cosmopolitan city like Alexandria with regard to perceived needs or desires to codify and create a social system (religion) with a shared and agreed philosophy/morality capable of overcoming the sacrificial rites polytheism that they can see is basically an unsupportable sham and superseding this “End of Times” final empire. I don’t know what that particular lecture would be called, but I would be curious to hear John take a stab at it. One important aspect rarely talked about is the Red Sea and Nile River as two waterways of historically equal importance and the reality of long term Phoenician and Egyptian collaboration.

Origen's universalism, allegorical approach to the scriptures, and the view of the meta-historical fall (/pre-cosmic fall) were also accepted by some of the main Byzantine saint church fathers such as Gregory of Nyssa, Gregory of Nazianzus, Evagrius, and Maximus the Confessor. There were many Greek church fathers that were universalists. Gregory of Nazianzus and Basic the Great curated an anthology of Origen's quotes in a book called Philocalia. His contribution to the development of the doctrine of the Trinity is crucial. Before Origen no one said the Logos / Son of God was eternal. And with regards to that Origen introduced in Christian theology the idea of eternal generation, which he got from the founder of Neoplatonism Ammonius Saccas, of whom he was a student, as mentioned. And the condemnation of Origen is itself a problematic affair. In the Fifth ecumenical council Origen is condemned without mentioning any of his doctrines, then the Emperor Justinian forces the fathers of the council to, in addition to the documents of the council, sign a document that he presents to them, which are a series of anathemas against alleged origenist teachings. Of those teaching, as they are formulated there, it is questionable if Origen held to any of them. The whole thing seems to have been an attempt to suppress certain monk communities that had certain neo-origenist ideas widespread among them.

This topic helps to contextualize early Christianity. Thank you for an interesting, original and thought-provoking introduction to the theological evolution of Christian thought!

It's not surprising that uneducated people can be geniuses. I believe that the sophistication of the styles in the gospels is because the authors were inspired. Very informative work - thank you. (Oh what a huge loss that the vast majority of Origen's writing was not preserved!) Btw, always thought the 'g' in Origen was hard, as in 'again' - even though it violates the usual rule of pronunciation.

I just started reading Origen’s work this week. Thanks for this lecture! It gives a lot of good context to my reading

As far as popularity goes when it comes to our earliest church fathers, Origen must have some good numbers. Many who feel some of Origen's perspectives don't fly still honor him as a founder of the church. Great presentation as usual John.

Imagine Origen and the so-called Church Fathers sitting around the table discussing future church doctrine and he says Satan will be forgiven. If I could have seen the look on their faces. It makes me chuckle EVERY TIME! LMFAO 😂😂😂

So thankful i found this channel ❤❤❤

You do very good lectures. Thank you

I absolutely agree with Simcha Jacobovici and Dr. Tabor. I would lo know more and will follow up on their findings 🤗🤓

Can you do one on marcions gospel of the lord and the apostolikon and the biggest differences from the canonical texts?

Thank you…

Thank you again

Origin was supposedly castrated by his own hand. His mom talked him out of being a martyr by going to the roman authority and basicly asking to be put to death. Later he hid when the authorities were rounding up christian leaders he hid out to avoid capture. He was a genius but a troubled one.

The accent on the name of the Greek translation of the Old Testament is on the first syllable: *_SÉPTuagint_* (Latin for “70”).

Thanks!

Please do a lecture on Clement of Alexandria! And the Holy Spirit - originally the feminine aspect of God. Love your informative and thought-provoking lectures, more please!

It sucks being a genius in a social world. No matter how many you are with, you are always alone 😔

"Having castrated myself, I do not recommend it." -Origen possibly

According to Roman Piso, 'Origen' and 'Dio Cassius' were two of several aliases of Domitius Ulpian, yet another royal descendant of Arrius Calpurnius Piso. Listen to Sleeping Wasbands.

brilliant, thank you!

Origen sounds like an ancient Galileo: a genius persecuted by the Church. Note also that in his later years Galileo was force to recant and sadly declared his own teachings to be wrong. He was force to state publicly that the Earth did not move, based on the ridiculous church 'evidence' from the Sun stopping in the book of Joshua. The writing attributed to Origen that said: "I do not know whether it is wise to go beyond this" sound like an interpolation added to defend Origen in the face of dogmatism.

So thoughtful, and thought provoking, thanks.

Did Origen write or say anything about the Sign of Jonah?

Excellent

Do you discount the Epistles of Peter and John as not being by the disciples?

Read Origen when I took Church History when I was studying theology for my M.Div. degree.

Yeah, love these vids and love your digging into early christian thinkers!

How do we know the, “extra literature,” in the Septuagint version of Daniel was not in the original Hebrew text from which it was translated since somehow that original mysteriously vanished? Conversely, how do we know that the, Masoretic, didn’t edit the original, e.g., remove stories that reference events centred in the Northern Kingdom of Israel in order to consolidate Hebrew history into the history of the Southern Kingdom of Judah; and by extension, the later traditions of the Pharisees cum post-Second Temple Rabbinic Jews?

How did Paul claim about his conversion when it is recorded in Acts by Luke?

Some languages J and g are silent Orion 🤺💐

May I ask who the presenter is? (Thank you.)

It says in Arabic script on the top right of the orange painting: "Al bab'' (the door) and underneath "Al Akram" (the most honorable). Ramadan Kareem: honorable or sublime Ramadan--Ramadan cream cookies inspired by Ramadan Kareem (maybe)

Fishermen fluent in Greek? Hahaha.

“Despite important work on the Greco-Roman antecedents of modern racism, very limited attention has been paid to early Christian literature in this connection. This is remarkable not least because modern Western racism took shape initially in a European context heavily influenced by Christianity. The present essay contributes to addressing this lacuna by analysing statements about ‘other’ ethnicities in the work of Origen of Alexandria, one of the most important thinkers of the first three centuries CE. It argues that Origen defends a number of positions that exhibit substantial similarities with later racist modes of thinking. Earlier scholarly accounts that portray Origen as a champion of human equality and as engaged in anti-racist efforts therefore cannot stand up to scrutiny. Origen disparages certain ethnic groups and develops arguments that connect ethnic identity and geographical location with various degrees of sinfulness. His work offers clear evidence that theories of ethnic inferiority have a long history within the Christian matrix that stretches considerably beyond the modern and medieval periods.” The Journal of Theological Studies, Volume 71, Issue 1, April 2020, Pages 164-195,

Real good tough stufff

The Greeks were imaginative story-tellers - white lies like the mythologies were common much like the writings of John the genius.

Origen did not believe that Jesus was in essence God come in the flesh in the person of Jesus Christ. He believed that Jesus was a created soul that did not fall away from God as all others did. He was a genius by definition. But it is very obvious that he did not rely upon the Holy Spirit for the right understanding of the Holy Scriptures; but instead he relied upon the powers of his own reasoning. The apostle Paul would have rightly rejected Origen without question. If you don't get Jesus right nothing that follows will be right. Paul and all the other apostles understood that. Origen was a Christian by profession and form, lacking the power that comes from the Spirit of Christ within. Religious minds are so fascinated by his writings, that they overlook the inexcusable errors that saturate alot of what he wrote. When you allow the Holy Spirit to teach and guide you in your biblical study, He makes sure you get Jesus right first.

I don’t think God originates the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart as much as focusing what was already in Pharaoh’s heart so that he doesn’t endlessly waver but actually does all he, himself, intended in his heart as distinct from his rational mind with all its potential and sometimes contradictory calculations. “As a man thinks in his heart, so is he.” I’m suggesting a better translation than, “harden,” would be, “solidify,” which is a perfectly legitimate alternative translation. The two words seem to have the same meaning but have different connotations in modern English mostly thanks to English being very much a mishmash of several diverse languages (and why it’s considered bad form to use the same word twice in a paragraph.”

Common Era,.Ano Domini is all that's needed. The year of our lord 🫡

I tried to read Origen, and in my opinion he didn't know what he was talking about, he was faking it. But, he had had access to writings of people who *did* know what they were talking about, so there are flashes of borrowed genius, mixed with confusing and confused ideas.

'Tekton' means builder - probably in stone at Sepphoris, four-ish miles from Nazareth!

Can’t wait for Baal!

I'm not sure if you're saying at 3:26 that it was during Paul's time that people in the communities Paul founded kept and read his letters alongside the Hebrew Bible and the Septuagint. But to clarify, during Paul's time, the Septuagint had yet to be written.

"You can't get the idea that Jesus is the Logos from the gospels." Okay, got it. What the entire hell...?

Did you know a new recent book by Origen was found? It’s about transvestism, and is called “On the Origen of She-He’s”

I could listen to him and also Robert Sepehr

Origen could be that threshhold, before which meditative openness and spiritual universalism was a possible direction for Christianity's development, but after which dogmatic clericalism and sectarianism have been dominating the Churches to this day.

Origen's origin is obscure.

A lot of people mistake forgiveness for acceptance which is why they denounced him as heretical. You can forgive someone that does something bad because you love all living beings and all living people. A terrorist could have been you in a different life. They could have witnessed war their entire lives and been fed lies and only witnessed the West subjugating them and the soldiers raping their people. Terrorists idea of God then is martyring himself for his people and sacrificing his life for what he feels is a greater purpose. I don’t accept what he has done and what his choice was in life. I don’t accept the mentality he had and the people he took from me. But I can forgive him as a human being who has been misled as we all often are. I love him as a fellow human being because we are all coming from the same beautiful divinity. In another life, we may have been friends. So I forgive that person for the way he has misinterpreted life, I do not accept the choices that were made. I do not know the full decisions of Satan leading to his fall, but his experiences clearly misled him and drew him away from his father. He chose to hate humanity and Gods creations, maybe he misinterpreted rhe love that God has for him versus Humanity. I don’t know. I cannot accept how Satan has fucked with and misled our fellow human beings into destroying ourselves, but I can forgive Satan as he is a creation of God just as we are and thus we are all from the same divinity. Satan was misled whether by himself or something greater rhan him, so why would it be so heretical to pray for his redemption and forgiveness?

Jesus read from the scroll in the synagogue as I have no doubt many Jews did because of the work of the Pharisees many Jews were actually literate

Yes , inventors are useful

Was this not a lecture on Origen?

What a wonderful lecturer. He walks on water and is as cute as the dickens. I wish I would have had a nice teacher in Catholic school. Nothing but abuse. Six nihilistic years for an innocent little boy. Lost my faith when I walked into the public junior high library and started reading Azimov's Astronomy, then realized I had been lied to. Jesus was here five minutes ago on a Cosmic time scale and there were humans on Earth two hundred thousand years ago who had the same number of brain cells as I had and fully developed languages. Jesus never said anything about a Universe of four hundred billion galaxies with two hundred billion stars in each. All he knew was astrology, the age of the fish, Pices, and the age of the water bearer, Aquarius. No wonder why he never came back. He was a flimflammer. They put him to death because they didnt like phony flimflammers. The people from Nazareth hated him the most. They knew him better than anyone: son of Mary.

Every break thru for Christianity was due to Roman military action, whether at the Milvian Birdie or the Jewish Wars.

The concept of Christ incarnating as wisdom on earth is very similar to the avatars of Vishnu in Vedic traditions (with the Father being Brahma and the Spirit being Shiva)

Shalom

I forgive you all. You are all forgiven; for you know not what you do.

What he claims is definitely true is a matter of opinion. About John. a liberal Anglican bishop, John Robinson, au Contraire that John is the most historical of the Gospels, albeit one that was the work of three authors. the apostle John being the first who make an attempt. As for the fisherman thing, archaeologist have concluded that such boats were in fact a considerable investment in capital, and that John and James were about to leave the business because their father was the equivalent of a small businessman.

40:52 😊 41:46 This is why I love your lectures: always telling how these things really work, instead of sugarcoating it. Everybody is claiming to have “the original” thoughts as their own. Which necessarily leads to these stories having it all backwards compared to what really happened. - In hindsight all the Eureka moments merge and fuse ideas, as if they had always been that way / were intended that way by nature / God, and I can’t even blame them: because that’s what it feels like when you find something out! But of course this method of storytelling is necessarily anachronistic: starting one’s writing with one’s very own conclusion feels right, because that’s what it is what one has “found out”, but of course it’s having the process all backwards. There’s probably even a name for this kind of fallacy. It makes for a good narrative to leave out all the exploration and false ends, and only keep what you found / your own conclusion. I do It all the time myself 😂. Just ignoring all the problems and impossibilities and non-sequiturs for the sake of one owns narrative. Of course in the end it’s a disservice, but one always wants to believe that the general idea was right and can be saved, just because it “felt right” at some point. - In principle a lot of ideas are open to scientific investigation, but to be honest: creativity comes first, science comes later to weed out all the falsities. - Ideas may start as Skeletons, then acquire a fat body, and then have to be trimmed down again to whatever holds water, or discarded. But one does not start the process with discarding… - so the question is: when do you write your book? In the skeleton phase? In the full body phase? Or once you weeded everything out, and found out that it all belongs on the compost heap and you just wasted three years of work? - Some things maybe should be left to the contrarians in the first place. Digestion of new ideas always takes time and a lot of back and forth / discussion, not to say a whole generation to discard again and another one to resurrect/ find the true nucleus / rediscover what was attractive about it in the first place. 47:02 Plotinus Neoplatonism and Augustine 49:50 wtf - you can’t just throw in a depiction of a guy cutting his own balls off! Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. 😮 1:01:19 the whole thing about Hagia Sophia and the Logos in modern scientific parlance seems like a discussion on wether the laws of nature are preexistent to matter and energy: Did the Creator create the laws on how the stuff should behave before he created the stuff? It’s the same as asking about the transition function of the state holding bits in information theory. You can’t have one without the other. - I’m beginning to see how Joscha Bach is repeatedly saying “I’m always late to the party”: it’s pretty hard to come up with original ideas, when everything has been thought before. Stephen Wolfram would probably say: “Hagia Sophia is an Automaton.” And his New Kind of Science is just the realization that there’s possibly an infinite amount, and by enumerating and testing them all, he wanted to identify the one, that created this universe of ours… As for the inseparability of the “Trinity”: elementary particles are defined by how they behave: their behavior is “non-optional” in Sheldon Cooper’s parlance. And when there is the Multiverse or even the Ruliad, all “potential” is realized in it. - I think we are coming back to some kind of Holy Trinity in the end: things exist, they behave, there is no unrealized potential - but we only ever can see slices of it. Kind of funny how science becomes theology again in the end. The circle is closed.

1 Timothy 4:10 - The New International Version (NIV) 10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. 1 Cor 15:22 for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive 1 John 2:2 New International Version 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Einstein was a genius. His genius is often summed up in: E=MC2 Copernicus was a genius and his genius can be summed up in: Heliocentricism. Geniuses often have shorthand ways to validate their genius. In 2-hours of a video on _Origen - The First Christian Genius,_ I couldn't give you such a summation. The Apostle Paul was the first Christian genius on the level of an Albert Einstein. Of all the people who had read and studied the Torah, the Apostle Paul was the only one to pick out Genesis 15:6 as a pertinent theology: "Abraham believed God and it was credited to him for righteousness." That single verse is Paul's E=MC2. That verse became the cornerstone of and justification for what Paul called "My Gospel". No one else on earth had ever picked out that truth. Paul was the first. Two men in the whole bible talk about Genesis 15:6 - the Apostle Paul and the Apostle James (Jesus' brother). Paul uses it to support his ministry, mission, and message. James uses the same verse to debunk Paul's message. James uses it as a polemic against Paul and his ministry. The first Christian genius has his detractors to this very day but the truth of his finding cannot be denied.

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:03 📜 Origin is recognized as the first Christian genius, with his early Christian writings admired by modern scholars for their significance in taking Christian thought to a new level. 01:23 📚 Many of Jesus' early disciples were from working-class backgrounds, and they left no writings, making it challenging to assess their intellectual contributions. 03:33 🖋️ Paul of Tarsus, who had never met the historical Jesus, played a significant role in the early Christian movement due to his writings and ability to articulate Christian thought. 05:20 🙏 Origin's interpretation of Christ as Lord, identifying Jesus as the Messiah and the glory of God, contributed to the development of Christian theology. 09:51 📖 Apart from Paul, there were other significant early Christian thinkers, including the anonymous author of The Epistle to the Hebrews and the authors of the Gospels. 10:18 📜 Christianity attracted more intellectual elites after being patronized by Roman emperors, leading to thinkers like Ambrose and Augustine, who played a pivotal role in shaping Christian thought. 13:20 📕 Origin's contributions included producing the first critical edition of the Hebrew Bible, inventing scriptural literary criticism. 14:57 📚 Origin created the first systematic Christian theology, making significant contributions to the development of ideas like the Ransom theory of atonement. 19:22 📚 Origin's hexapla was a groundbreaking work that included the Hebrew text, Greek transliteration, and multiple Greek translations to assist in studying and interpreting the scriptures. 27:21 📜 The subagent version of the Old Testament included books not part of the original Hebrew scriptures, with some texts likely composed in Greek. Orthodox and Catholic traditions include these texts as deuterocanonical. 28:29 📚 Eusebius, the main source for Origin's life, was a biased and unreliable historian who portrayed Origin as a perfect Christian scholar. 29:13 🏛️ Alexandria, the birthplace of Origin, was a significant center of intellectual and cultural capital in the Greco-Roman world, with a strong Hellenistic influence. 36:16 🕍 Alexandria had a large Jewish population, making it the biggest Jewish community in the world during that time and a major center of Hellenistic Jewish thought. 38:02 📖 Origin studied at the Catechetical School of Alexandria and may have attended the Platonic Academy under Ammonius Saccas, who influenced Neoplatonism. 43:51 📚 Origin was influenced by Clement of Alexandria and advocated for the compatibility of philosophy and Christianity, emphasizing that Christian ideas predated pagan philosophy. 52:05 🗣️ The story of Origin castrating himself, based on a literal interpretation of Matthew 19:12, is questionable and lacks credible evidence. 55:40 📚 Origin's conflict with Demetrius and other bishops led to disputes about his preaching and ordination, including rumors of self-castration, reflecting the early church's complexities. 59:03 📖 Origin authored around 2,000 treatises covering theology, philosophy, and biblical interpretation, contributing significantly to early Christian thought. 01:00:09 📜 Origin's work "Peri Archon" is regarded as Christianity's first systematic theology, though it's controversial due to later condemnations. 01:10:23 🕊️ Origin's theology sees Christ, the Son of God, as eternal and coexistent with the Father, emphasizing the unchanging nature of God. 01:17:12 🙌 Origin's writings provide a more spiritual and comprehensive understanding of Christ, emphasizing the logos and its role as holy wisdom. 01:20:29 🌟 Origin's theological perspective defines the roles of the Father, the Word (Logos), and the Holy Spirit, with the latter enabling beings to attain holiness through participation. 01:21:56 📖 Origin, an early Christian thinker, had concerns about the concept of Free Will, particularly in relation to God hardening Pharaoh's heart in the Exodus story. 01:25:17 📖 Origin wrote a response to the Pagan philosopher Celsus, critiquing Christianity. Celsus questioned Christ's suffering, and Origin argued it was prophesied. 01:29:05 📖 Origin faced persecution under Emperor Deus and refused to renounce his faith, becoming a Christian martyr. 01:36:22 📖 Later, Origin's teachings influenced many Christian thinkers, including John Scotus Eriugena and Erasmus during the Renaissance. Origin was considered a significant Christian genius. 01:47:39 📚 Origin had supporters who found his ideas worthwhile, which contributed to his recognition as one of the Church Fathers. 01:48:06 📜 Origin's rehabilitation in later times was due to improved scholarship recognizing the context in which he lived, prior to the development of the Trinity doctrine. 01:48:45 🙏 Origin is now considered one of the Church Fathers by some Christian traditions, although sainthood varies among denominations. 01:52:05 💡 Origin argued against Gnosticism while incorporating some of its spiritual and Platonic elements into Orthodox Christianity. 01:54:27 ⛪ Origin and early Christian communities were independent of the Roman state, with periodic persecutions being the only direct connection. 01:55:27 👤 Preaching by ordained priests became the norm as hierarchical structures within Christian communities evolved. 01:57:18 🌐 The political agenda drove Justinian's actions during the Second Council of Constantinople, rather than a strong opinion on the creation of human souls. 02:01:08 🧙 Origin's theology was highly influential among his contemporaries, leading to both admiration and opposition. 02:02:05 🌍 Origin's universalist writings have influenced modern thinking on the subject, contributing to the development of the concept of universal salvation.

The presenter gives too much credence to the charge that Origen castrated himself. The origin of that is from a shaky source (Eusebius of Caesarea) and it's clearly counter to how he interpreted scripture.

Origen was honestly a baller

Has there been any since though?

Humbly I ask you , Plz read the Book of Mormon, it straightens out the confusion as the lord said it would in Isaiah 29. Best wishes

Origen brought the antichrist into the catholic church. He sold the trinity doctrine to the post Apostolic christians . A trinity of gods was a pagan practice. Paul did meet Jesus. He spent 3 years in Arabia learning from Jesus from the risen Jesus.

All of our Apostolic Catholic fathers were geniuses.

Team Celsus 🧠⚕️🔬🔭🧬⚖️📐🧮

Video says: "Origen was the first to propose the 'Ransom Theory'" Mark 10:45 - For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. What more evidence do we need that the wheels of this guy's religion have come completely off. These lies are SO egregious that it's hard to continue - but continue I will because I love exposing reptiles like this.

Wow peasants. I wouldn't equate working class with peasants

Forest for the trees . Look under the priest story hear the slave. Look for the man find God😊

Maybe he needs a podium of be sitting down. He looks so uncomfortable

Thank you, but a sad story, not just the loss or bowdlerisation of Origen's work, and his undeserved end, but his life's work - a convoluted attempt to justify the frankly nonsensical.

Why seminary education gets ruined

There were no colleges

52-minutes in, the RU-vidr says, "This is just speculation now." NOW? Most of the stuff he's said about the New Testament has been speculation. HA! Lizards. What are we gonna do...?

How could anyone who has read the Book of Romans say that Origen was the first "Christian" genius? I am less than one minute into this video and I can already tell that the RU-vidr has not read not comprehended what Paul wrote to the Romans.

if the holy spirit could make the apostles multi-linguistic on penticost, why wouldn't it make them literate as well?

Paul wasn't a genius?

Origen And The Orangutans: I want to write a book. What about the souls of orangutans? They are wiser than we are. They keep their mouths shut. They are not anti-semites, but then they actually know what Semites are. You would think their DNA would be closer to ours, but the more violent chimps are closer to us. Probably ancient three hundred million year old dragonflies with their three foot wing spans had souls. Too bad Origen knew nothing about orangs or ancient dragonflies..

Putting the K in Krazy 😂

I enjoy many of his videos- but when he gives his OPINION on who wrote different books in the Bible- he acts as if his OPINION is written in stone and is agreed upon among all Biblical scholars . His opinions are NOT factual or agreed upon among all scholars. Moses absolutely wrote the Penatuc - John ABSOLUTELY wrote John and Revelation- Daniel ABSOLUTELY wrote the book of Daniel etc..

The statement that "none of [Jesus disciples] left writings ignores the disciples who wrote the New Testament. He should have said that none of the disciples that this pretend "scholar" wants to recognize wrote anything about Jesus. This thing already shows the bigorty of the Atheist religion.

Jesus is a tale like Pinocchio 😅😂

I can tell that you came from a mormon tradition .. Because actually And perhaps surprisingly so..they are more grounded in the text of the bible..

why is he sporting the hidden hand 🤔

Origenes was a professional liar! Faith and critical thinking are mutually exclusive! .

What is the purpose of defining God and Jesus if we know nothing about God and only bits of Jesus. How many people were prosecuted and even killed for not hanging on to the prevailing definition. Who got helped by having the concept of a Trinity that is impossible to comprehend. Is this all discussion for discussions sake while lacking knowledge.

(Spits coffee)

Why is Origen not a Saint?

Romans 15: 27 🆚 Philippians 4: 15

Right off the bat, the first few claims of this pseudoscholar speaker are in error and can easily be shown. It is therefore a prelude to the quality of the content of the rest of his claims. Internal evidence shows with ease where he is wrong on all levels of his theories. Many scholars would also disagree with him. I could point these things out but space and time does not permit it. He needs considerably more education to make any argument at all. I would be personally embarassed to speak in such an uninformed fashion.

Imagine trinity was introduced by a man