I have been a HVAC/R technician for 30 years, and I can tell you from experience that installations such as this are unfortunately very common. For some reason a lot of installers are either not properly trained and qualified, plus a lot of them just don't care. It's very sad.
If you have been out there 30 years you and I both know a lot of contractors that claim to have all this experience and do quality installations. And they send out anyone they can to do them and bitch about how ling it took them. Worked for some realy good honest contractors, and some real pieces of crap. Have also met a lot of people who can pick apart other peoples work when their own work is no better
Absolutely correct ,!!!! Down here in Florida from what Ive seen is there are such a high demand for calls so these installers and technicians are rushing through there jobs trying to get to the next so they can make it home before 10/11:00 p.m ! Now I'm not making excuses for this at ALL !! Just saying what I see there always in a rush , at my employment we get from 7 to 13 calls a day and when we try to take are time on a job we get called and ask wtf is taking so long !!! I have yet found a company down here that does not do that !!
We all no what the problem is it's cheap unskilled labor it's not only the hvac trade its all over from hvac to plumbing to electrical I work in commercial live in Texas every job or company I've worked for have Forman that don't speak English because 99% of the crew is illegal cheap labor
Churches are notoriously horrible to do work for. They always have some "expert" member, dead broke and want to micromanage the process while beating you up over price. HVAC is one of the most expensive items on a structure, yet the trade as a whole is also one of the worst hacks of all. I've only known one tech that knew water doesn't flow uphill in a condensation line and he died 60 years ago and apparently took that secret to his grave. Last but not least, you get what you pay for and I'm 100% sure this was the low bidder and the sales guy probably had a silver tongue.
@@dcj2045 Churches are very cash constrained in the real world. Most of the money goes to the higher ups in the church and especially if you are in a backwater area, the people are dirt poor and getting money from the church higher ups is near impossible. So of course they try to cut down on costs and 'get something for free'.
Since I retired ten years ago I have been taking care of the HVAC at a large church campus. It is exactly like you show in this video. In the past this church was broke all the time so anyone that was willing to give repairs a try was given full access to the HVAC equipment. Many were members of the parish. I don't fault them. When you have zero bucks you get what you get. First I joined the finance committee to turn the budget around so we have real money to fix things. Next I started with replacing and upgrading every large building's HVAC equipment and boilers. The church school is the last building to get a new boiler in the future but the one we have is working fine it's just fifty years old.
When I joined the finance board the idea of fixing things was a joke. There was no money to do it. Since I have done pretty well in managing budgets in the past and investing myself so I could retire at 50 I helped them work out a system to actually have money set aside for repairs. I guess they just were hoping someone would come along and volunteer to not only fix things but pay for the parts. Now a few times this did happen but if your cousin's friend is doing the fixing job and donating the parts the repair might not be up to what I would call professional standards.
Even if the church is broke it's still no reason to be unsafe. At least there will be people to pray for the dead when people die. The exhaust was really taped together lol! That's simply a lack of responsibility! GOD, please pray for your followers if you can't help them the devil will. You get what you get are you kidding me! :)
That's an excuse , high bidders can and will fuck you over just the same , most of the mistakes are often done by new contractors or those with low experience . You are equating yourselves to other people just because they charge more wich isn't very smart . Just because you do a good job and you take pride in your work doesn't mean others will or do no matter how much they get paid.
Wind - if you're the successful high bidder, you will have a loooong list of satisfied customers and I will visit many of your completed projects. You will also provide a finish or completion bond.
The bid amount has nothing to do with how many satisfied customers, or the standard of your work . Anyone can have enough pride in their work to do an excellent job ,the price they charged you doesn't illustrate this. In fact the business model for a lot of people or companies is to bid extremely low on a large number of jobs to quickly spread examples of their work or services . What's being sold is a service and the basic principle isn't any different than a new store opening with lower prices than its competitor across the street . Simply put you may do a excellent job at a set price , someone else might do that same job better or worse because that's what they think their effort is worth. This price doesn't control the quality the person behind the work does .
Wind - you're comparing apples to oranges. Here today gone tomorrow, low bid gypsy like contractors can't be compared to a discount box store like Wal Mart. Argue with someone who knows nothing about contract work. You'll be sitting in the unemployment line soon enough low balling jobs as a contractor and in front of the bankruptcy court as well!
@@anexpertateverything4816 And what size would that be? You can only cut the hole so big. Throw it on a box or do a wrap around, but I think a box looks better.
I used to work for an electrical contractor and sometimes churches are the WORST...They want the best for the cheapest so stuff like this happens, especially when the members get involved because in my trade they "know some electrical"...
REWYRED did a no cool the other day Furnace and condenser wired in the same circuit and same breaker rated at 30 amps I was like what the hell man call a electrician. You can't do this.
I'm glad i came across this video. I'm building a custom house and vlogging it on my channel, you should see some of the stuff that they let slide. Like installing an HVAC upright on top of a wooden box right in the drip pan. Most people think i complain a lot, but honestly it's all about doing it right the first time.
Agreed, can possibly over look some low voltage splicing , lack of proper strapping and maybe even a shitty filter, but duct tape joints on exhaust pipe! WOW... Your going to kill somebody dude
I have a feeling some of the wiring was repaired after being hit with the weed eater too many times and I am hoping that pvc was cut after the fact by some hack for whatever reason and they taped it back together. Edit: At 4:16 the cleaner/glue that dripped from the elbow is on both pieces of pipe but under the tape. It was either cut after the fact or somewhat retaped it at some point.
@@stonegallimore1163 Exactly. I'm no tradesman, HVAC or otherwise, but lots of that stuff is obvious - and far easier to do right the first time than to fix later. *Such* a shitty job. On the other hand, if the congregation is right with their god, they're protected from any and all shortcuts taken.
Well, I blame the consumer. They probably got a pile of quotes and took the cheapest one. I’m a York dealer and have been for 15 years. It is a shame to see that done to such good equipment.
Wow! My guess is lowest bidder on that one. My experience with churches has always been cheap as possible. Even my own church operates that way😂 While I’m sure with 4 furnace change outs it wasn’t cheap, there’s a reason why the other bids were higher.... And I love the Foam Core PVC pipe that was exhausting from the 1st two units. It’ll be yellow in a couple years. Great video Ted. Shows some of the guys watching this what not to do! Excellent teachable moment!
That is an unfair stereotype. Most pastors are working a full-time job outside of the ministry (and gladly do so). That translates into two full-time jobs. What is unfortunate is that many churches are doing the best they can on a very limited budget and get taken advantage of. I worked for several years in the non-profit sector and witnessed hack jobs and people donating trash. Quite unfortunate.
Unfortunately, most HVAC installers are the jack of all trades and master of none. They do a little electrical, a little plumbing, a little wood work, and a lot of screwing metal together in whatever way makes it work.
Also see the incorrect trapping of the condensate drains. There should not be any atmospheric venting until after the trap/running trap. A vent leg before the trap is an air leak, and negates the function of the trap.
@@TedCookHVAC Watching this I am not surprised. My old church was wanting to build a new sanctuary. Dad was on the steering committee for it. He told them the geology of the area required them to take precautions to keep building from sinking (he was a 30 year geologist at the time). They ignored him and took the advice of the guy building the sanctuary, who was also a member, on the same steering committee. Five years after it was built it started falling apart because it was settling unevenly. Church had to pay lots of money to get it all fixed.
I'm always so careful to make sure my installs look perfect and are up to code, watching these makes me feel better about myself. THAT ANGLE JOINT? WHAT ARE YOU THINKING
the pvc pipe being angled would drain water into the system, wouldnt it? or is that ok? I obviously have no experience in this but that just screams big no-no to me if its a vent; not even any kind of cap on the outside.
@@NVMDSTEvil you want the condensation from the venting to drain into the furnace trap and then out into a floor drain or condensation pump. you need to pitch the pipe back towards the furnace, but it doesnt have to be as dramatic as it was in the video. and you should make sure your pipe goes all the way into the fitting lol
We went in behind a company that installed brand new units on a complete subdivision that was just being built none of the ACs worked what was wrong they didn't open the Service valves
The term jury rigged readily comes to mind. I see several areas where that was done starting with the beginning. It may work for a while, but it catches up to you later. It’s good you found these issues. I wonder if they were even aware of them.
Man, this does make me glad we had contractors as members of our church and hired the right people when we built our new sanctuary. I would hate if that happened to us. We try to even out the cheap vs is it too cheap deal.
Water in air duct ...can I say legioner disease. ..make sure you address that and non pressure pvc is a no no...should be high temperature plastic or at least schedule 80 maybe 40...also should pitch down not up to the outside for condensate drainage and make a drain condensate tee with a condensate pump....
@rj doggman most 90%+ furnaces require a 1/4 inch per foot pitch back to the furnace. There is a drain built in that has to be piped to a plumbing drain.
@@Guillotines_For_Globalists I was referring to the pvc flue pipe. It should drain back to the furnace so the water will flow out of the drain on the furnace. It's is also required so flue gasses will flow up.
@@scorpionsting47 You were suggesting adding a T in-line with the exhaust to drain the moisture out? Wouldn't that allow exhaust gasses to seep out in to the dwelling? The reason I mentioned the condensation drain on the furnace is because I believe if any condensation drains back from the exhaust it will flow there as well.
@@Guillotines_For_Globalists the other commenter referred to the tee. There are some manufacturers that allow that type of connection, but you must follow their instructions carefully. They do not apply to other manufacturers. And to answer your question: if it set up like this, there is usually a p-trap of some kind to keep flue gasses from escaping. Much like a p-trap on sewer drains keeps sewer stink/gasses out of your home.
I recently ran into a 96% Goodman furnace and the installer piped in vent pipe instead of Pvc. It was piped along with 80% hot water heater. Had to change it over to pvc.
Just put it in corrugated wire loom and zip tie it to the line set. I swear I also heard someone else mention in another channel that they run the low voltage in the same conduit as the high voltage as well.
About the masic tape on the joint, idk if mine beats it by any means, but my best rigging find was under a house in Auburn, AL, a part of the duct board connecting the supply of the air handler to the trunk line had rotted out from moisture so to fix it the homeowners uncle replaced the wall of the duct board transition with a Budweiser box, and somehow over 6 years it hadn't rotted out like the duct board
If you’re going to not pipe the fresh air from outside on that 90 % then you install a 90 degree fitting at the furnace to prevent someone from blocking off the air intake. Underground air duct is just stupid.... it always fails. It’s unsafe to use since water is inside of it. Abandon it.
There are those of us that turn wrenches in the hvac business. And then there are those of us in the buisiness that know WHY we turn the the bolt. Master your craft my brothas
Wow man. That is insane. The thing about churches is they dont have helicopters bc everyone's out living. My local church needs a plumber bc their handy man is messing everything up including the hvac. I should show you their hacked mini splits. LOL
I've been watching a few of this dudes videos and I don't understand why he keeps cutting up other companies work , that is just not right because what is legit today might be wrong tomorrow as per codes and the companies work ethics , should just be concerned about his own work and forget about the rest ! I've never in my 45 yrs of experience in the HVAC work have put down another company or what some people try to do to save money !
This is a total bad job. Hes showing the dos and donts, he cnt help it if the other guy did alot of donts. I commend him for doing that so next time the church leaders get an idea whats right. I would thank him if it was my house and got a bad job done. Theres a word called ethics, this man cares, unlike whoever repaired it b4.
Where I live we always run single wall galvanized pipe to either a lined chimney or to where the b vent goes up through the roof. We never fail an inspection because of this. Just curious why that isn’t allowed in your area.
Building code standards are different in other areas I guess ? This one I agree with but I am sure you do not run 30Ga. dryer pipe ? Single wall pipe is safe if it is thick enough in my opinion. Like 24Ga.
I love this guy's videos. There's a lot of bad systems out there. I hate running into them because it's a "new unit recommendation" and that never goes anywhere, it's just a waste of time. If it can't be fixed with a reasonable amount of money and labor... may as well wish them the best of luck and move to the next call
There are good furnace installers and bad, just like car mechanics, roofers and plumbers. There seems to be more bad than good. My dad always told me if a job needs doing, it is worth doing right.
One problem churches have is if they heat the space say 1 per week. Instalation cost is high v running cost (fuel and maintenance) . Also building can have poor thermal properties Inc high ceilings. That presents particular problems for HEVAC. Building sharing can split the costs but also the committees that manage them.
Very saddening when 'so called' techs do mess jobs like this! It is an embarrassment to the whole industry! I feel terrible for the church! (Though it may have been one of their own people who did it as a 'gift' to the church! NOT!) B.l.t.n64!
I generally shy away from bidding on church jobs. From my experience, it's usually pretty hacked by people lacking skills (but full of good intentions). Nobody mentions Brother Knucklehead when there's a problem, they always mention whatever contractor tried to rectify the situation.
Yea they are pretty angry at the moment talking about court cases and such.... Shame on the one(s) who installed that crap !! We gave them a quote to straighten it all out. Geeze what a mess.
I read a bunch of comments about the single wall. Gas code says 6” to combustibles is table 503.10.5a. I was told 9”. Either way PVC IS considered to be combustible so single wall should not be used right off the furnace or copper drain line should be installed for that distance. Inspectors should fail for this. Single wall pipe is acceptable for condition spaces. Must use bvent in unconditional spaces. We always run bvent now. Part of my bid. Also read a comment about grading the pvc vent towards the outside. Please read the manufacturer installation manual. It says to grade all pvc vents toward the furnace...
I work in Chicago metro metro area we have very tight codes all power must be in conduit, no flexible gas on HVAC equipment, .. what code requires B-vent from the main flue?
Nice evaluation. I don't know if the church paid the lowest bidder but this happens quite alot. A couple things. Not sure of your local codes but you have to have 18 inches of clearance from combustibles. The fiber duct wont pass the clearance requirements. Five ton systems need to be elevated and fed through the bottom to provide air to both sides of the blower. I did not see any combustion air in the mechanical rooms and that is concerning the most. Not enough oxygen equals an incomplete burn resulting in CO gasses produced. Just because it has a high quality filter does not work well if it's not installed correctly. You are loosing at least 30 percent of the furnaces efficiency.
From Tennessee,I wouldnt say common but ive seen it some.usually in older buildings repurposing and such.Its not something that would be designed into a new structure below grade.At least not that ive seen.
Water in the underground return fosters mold and legionella. We had this in Ohio recently. Filled the old underground duct with concrete and ran all duct overhead in the attic.
Have a church where they ran all returns in concrete and metal duct liner. After 15yrs duct gone and during heavy rains duct fills with water. Sounds like a washing machine. I tried and tried to get them to put sumps in and UV lights. But as always no go, not in the budget
Most manufacturers require at least 18" of rise before the first elbow , on the exhuast. If you put that 45 right off the top , youre going to have problems.
Please explain to me why installers put P-traps on the pressure side of the fan. I did HVAC service for years and never saw a drain pan trap water on the pressure side of a system.
One thing in common in ALL these videos.....no inspection stickers from the city. Which means probably no permit pulled and definitely no final inspection performed. Saved a few hundred only to cost themselves way more. A good inspector would have caught everything and made the original company correct it. Also, in my experience. 9 out of 10 times work like this is performed by a "friend" or family member. I'd always ask the owner, "Do they not like you?"
And this is why I diy. You can't trust many service providers to do a quality job. You must at least educate yourself on materials , local codes , and learn from the experience of quality professionals in a particular field. If you don't do it yourself or trust the service personnel you have to do quality control yourself. Thanks for allowing us to enrich ourselves with your experience.
No mention of flexible gas line to the furnace? That yellow caught my attention immediately! If its not code in the International or in state or local codes--or 3ven in the furnace instruction manuals, im shocked. No flex gas line to furnaces, especially when not neccessary, unlike maybe a wall furnace where the gas connection is down low and impossible to run hard piping and fittings.
Otherwise, your on point, my fruend. Hell, t ht ere is so much there that is stupid, your almost have to miss something. You probably fixed the gas line anyway. I would have. Just for liability reasons alone, hell
I bet they didn't try to cheap out on the pipe organ. Every time a church calls me I run. They always have a member who will dictate how much it should cost and want to argue over price. That's why I run.
Video stopped at :030 to make comment, At the beginning, that joint could easily be explained by the distance from the unit to the wall, the drainage and weeds..... landscaper error on top of installer error, With the unit location, I would have put the control cables in their own conduit for protection. Better yet, install the unit to avoid the drainage and closer to the building, landscaper should have put down weed-block cloth and pea gravel around units to avoid damage when trimming! If the trimmer stays away, the unit keeps working!
I'm no HVAC certified person but I know that's a shit job. So I'm assuming they went for the lowest bidder. If they would have just paid a little more they would have gotten it right the first time. So now this gentleman will repair the shit job and the church will pay probably more then if they paid a little more the first time.
Single wall is fine as long as your not within 6" of combustible material. Yes the seams could have been completely inserted instead of leaving an inch of crimped pipe.
