PATREON: www.patreon.com/Overanalyzing... Overanalyzing Avatar on the deserter, one of the sleeper hits of Book 1? Twitter: / overanalyzinga #atla #avatarthelastairbender #overanalyzingavatar
I think the river metaphor is like this: Aang insists that he needs to be taught by Jeong jeong because its his *destiny* to learn fire bending, and he believes it was his destiny to meet Jeong jeong at that exact time of his life. Jeong jeong's response is "A fish doesn't know the river's course just because it swims in it, similarly, you don't know your destiny just because you're experiencing it." Jeong jeong is warning Aang not to make assumptions or jump to conclusions about why things happen. They met, sure, but Aang assumes that their meeting means he should learn fire bending immediately. Jeong jeong is saying he isn't ready, and that Aang is wrong.
It’s kinda ironic too considering his interpretation of what firebending is comes from self hatred and ignorance. fire is life and energy, not just uncontrollable destruction as he believes. I mean he gets so close to realizing this too All of the other elements are just as capable of causing natural uncontrollable destruction: storms, floods, and earthquakes. And misuse of them is just as dangerous
Something cool about Jeong Jeong escaping from Zhao is that, before he cloaks himself in fire, there's a firebender at the top of the screen, dead center. After the cloak disappears, that firebender has moved a few feet off to the side. Zhao instantly points that exact direction when saying he ran off into the woods, so that actually creates kind of a continuity of Jeong Jeong using the fireball to shove past that firebender and run off. Neat tiny detail.
Even crazier, if you watch the fireball disappear at the top portion of the screen, the flames also reach where that guy was and then motion to where he ends up. The flames literally carry him
I always find Jeong Jeong's philosophy on the purely destructive nature of firebending fascinating. You can tell that his years of war, and the senseless loss of life therein, have irrevocably changed his views on his own culture and that of firebending itself. He's too blinded by his own trauma to see firebending any other way, and that's the tragedy of him being such a great master.
One thing I love about Jeong Jeong is how he is subtly inspired by waterbending in his firebending. In the retaking of Ba Sing Se, he never just throw a fireball, instead he creates a literal wave of fire that he controls, the same way a waterbender would do.
I feel like that is THE Zheo we were introduced to. He talks a big game, knows when and who to show off to .When he is outsmarted or defeated by someone he deems inferior(aka a fallen prince or a 12 year old child) he is shown to act recklessly and with clouded judgement, i.e every encounter he's had with zuko thus far
I agree, it's pretty consistent. The "cool and collected" side of him always seemed like a bit of an act to me. He's no Azula, who is actually that chill. No blue fire for Zhao.
I agree. In the earlier Agni Kai Zuko actually uses Zhao's temper against him. The reason Zuko wins that match is because he keeps his temper while Zhao loses his. Zhao is smug and calm up until something goes south or his pride is challenged, then he makes reckless mistakes.
While I also found Zhao's character in the scene consistent, it *does* feel a bit too... cartoonish. The way that Aang barely even tries with his insults and just makes it utterly obvious to the viewer what he's doing. I think the scene would land better if it were played seriously, and the result that Aang is going for was hidden from the viewer until the end.
@@vene Yea, I agree. I think it's something the show improved at over time as they realize they don't need to be overly cartoony and obvious like many nickelodeon shows before them.
One really nice contrast in this episode is between the firebending Jeong Jeong speaks of and the firebending from the festival. In the festival we see a bunch of neat and fun uses for firebending: cooking, storytelling, theatrics. All of that is in stark contrast to how Jeong Jeong sees firebending, as purely hurtful and destructive. Really nice to start off the episode with some lighthearted firebending so we don't necessarily agree with Jeong Jeong right away
saameee. it shows he really took what his dad told him seriously. aang clearly meant no harm, but i can still respect that he has no hesitation protecting his sister from anyone, no matter how chill or attached he previously was with them.
Something I find interesting is that Aang actually can firebend this early in the show, and technically could have used firebending throughout the show, but because of his trauma with Katara and understanding of the discipline and training he needed to use it safely, he didn't.
No he couldn't. He can create fire but he can't control it. You need to be firm when dealing with fire that's why an airbender has to learn earthbending before firebending.
@@DaDunge hold on, I don't think he even created his own fire. other than the failed fire punch he did when zuko asked him "show me what you got", aang has never actually created his own fire before meeting the dragons.
One thing I noticed about this episode was that Aang actually failed the last thing Jeong-Jeong told him to do. He told him to "concentrate on stopping the fire from reaching the edges of the leaf for as long as possible". This, to me, sounded like Jeong-Jeong trying to teach Aang to control the fire's spread. Had he learned that control, he may have also been able to avoid burning Katara. But in the end, he was too impatient and let the fire spread, allowing him to create his own fireball without having enough real control over it.
He's trying to teach Aang as if Aang was stepping from earthbending, he's essentially trying to teach Aang the things Aang would have needed to know from earthbending. Earth is the element of stability which is where he starts Aang's firebending. Aang however wants to step into firebending from Air which is the element of freedom and bending fire the way you do air is possible but it leads to what we saw in this episode, uncontrolled destruction.
@@DaDunge Good point, he wants to teach him control but, more than that, he wants Aang to learn how to make this stuff stable. If Aang could approach this from an Earthbender's mindset, this is a challenge to be tackled head-on. But from an Airbender's mindset, it's restricting his creativity and it's just more pointless busy work. It's also important to note that by this point, Aang has calmed down and apologized for his earlier outbursts. So Jeong Jeong is assuming that Aang understands his position, he's thinking that Aang gets the relationship and would want to make amends by following him to the letter. So he leaves him alone thinking that's what is going to happen. He doesn't realize just how far his methods have actually pushed Aang's frustration because, again, as an Airbender, he's being indirect about his true feelings here. And, as a former soldier, Jeong is thinking Aang will act with more conformity in the same way that he would after messing up, I'd assume.
I think it’s really cool that Sokka, being of a disheveled Southern Water Tribe victimized so thoroughly by the Fire Nation, becomes instinctively furious and combative with a close friend after seeing him use fire, even accidentally, to directly harm his sister I feel like if he was learning earthbending or even waterbending and somehow harmed Katara, Aang wouldn’t have earned as much scorn from Sokka. It’s almost like his response was conditioned, by trauma
9:12 A detail I always loved was when the attack on Jong Jong begins there are 8 soldiers attacking him but after the fire subsides the soldier closest to the woods was shoved over a few feet, implying that's how Jong escaped and how Zhao was able to call him out on it so fast.
Actually, Jeong Jeong is being pretty straightforward with his metaphor. Aang says it's his destiny to master all the elements and defeat the Fire Lord, but Jeong Jeong asks what would Aang know about what his destiny actually is. He compares the path of Aang's life, his fate/destiny, as a river that flows ever forward towards it's big ending, the ocean. But the Aang who is just living his life day to day, he is just a fish being moved by that river. Sure, it's moving him towards that ocean, but as an ignorant/innocent "fish" what does he actually know about the river it lives in and where it ends? Aang is too young and ignorant to really know or be in control of his destiny and to pretend that he can is just the arrogance of youth. The metaphor isn't that complicated as long as you keep in mind that Jeong Jeong is replying to Aang talking about destiny and don't try to read farther into it.
I love how jeong jeong fights like a water bender he creates a wave of fire to stop the ships and during the comet you see him using waves to attack fire Nation tanks
@Rj-Lamar i think the order of the white lotus teach each other how to bend with other elemental bending styles, like how iroh is seen using a lot of other bending styles, most importantly water to generate lightning
Also, all of Jeong Jeong's fire bending is defensive. He never throws fire at someone. He creates defensive barriers and walls and, at most, uses them to push tanks.
@@mcmonkey26 That was actually for the purpose of redirection, hence why Azula and Ozai had learnt it. They don't study waterbenders, but they can generate (but not redirect, see the day of black sun) lightning.
another layer i got about Aang's personality in this episode: Aang is a 12 year old airbender who has earned his tattoos. meaning that he is a prodigy (similar on the level of Azula, but the airbending version) so he is used to things coming easily to him and is used to learning techniques and being encouraged to play around with them. Aang is such a natural at bending that upon learning a small amount of water and earth bending he was able to apply it near immediately, effectively, and creatively against trained soldiers later on. Learning firebending requires discipline and patience that he had yet to develop by having bending come naturally to him, but eventually develops it while training with Toph. Techincally he still made fire and has been able to bend it for the majority of the season since this episode, meaning he is perfectly capable of learning it and learning it well and could have been just as proficient in it or more so than water and earth bending if didnt develop the mental block from hurting Katara.
Aang wasn't just a prodigy with airbending - the tattoos were only given to master airbenders. Aang had proven himself a master at age 12, shortly before he learned of his destiny of being the Avatar. Doesn't change your explanation, but it's important to mark the distinction.
My new favorite head cannon is that Jeong Jeong heard Iroh saying wise things and thought it was really cool so he tried it himself BUT he only heard season 1 Iroh
I think it's cool to think that benders have this kind of presence or subtle expressions when they walk. It makes a lot of sense when you think about it. Airbenders are all about being light on your feet, waterbenders go with the flow, and Earthbenders have a strong stance. That's why Jongjong was teaching Aang how to breath and stand for so long, he needed to learn to move like a firebender
I like to think Jeong Jeong recognizing Aang's raw power can be tied to his cultural knowledge. Similar to how he recognized the healing arts of the waterbenders, he recognized the tattoos of a certified airbending master, something many would spend their whole lives striving to reach, on this young boy not even out of puberty yet.
I think aang got his tattoos due to his Avatar status (correct me if I'm wrong, if he had tattoos before or after the monks told him) but if he truly earned them, Jeong Jeong wouldn't necessarily waste aangs time with the waiting and breathing exercises that lasts hours since he already knows how to meditate.
@@lemmy4965 I just realized that the number of techniques are a reference to "The 36th Chamber of Shaolin", a pretty cool Hong Kong martial arts film from the 70s
@@sebastiengendron6427 As Lemmy said, he was a certified master of air bending. The reason Jeong Jeong was putting him through that training is that he's young, and the philosophy of air bending is different from the philosophy of fire bending. A chess master may be brilliant but they can't just sit down across from a Go master having never played and be proficient without first learning the philosophy of the game and how it's played.
I actually do think Roku was speaking on behalf of himself and the previous Avatars. That's probably why when the Avatar is in the Avatar State, you can hear this reverberation like there's a bunch of people talking at once; I think those are the previous Avatars vocalizing.
This was my favourite episode in the series for many years. A couple of points to note - It's interesting that an earthbending (or firebending) Avatar would have learned fire quite early on. But that it's super risky for an airbender avatar, being so casual and easy-going, to learn firebending early. It comes back to discipline. And we all know what happens when you fan the flames. Zhao is only calm and collected when he is in control. He's been promoted twice this season, so I assume his early cool was from his military victories. And his recent failures to capture the Avatar (especially with the Blue Spirit incident) has made him much more irascible. Fish in the river - Aang says "it's my destiny to.." and that's what sets Jeong Jeong off. Like, you, a human being with no abilities to divine the future, how can you know what your destiny really is? It's similar to what Iroh tells young zuko in the Western Air Temple flashback - that he may think he knows what his destiny is but really, a fish in the river cannot anticipate the ocean. Personally, I love the build up to Jeong Jeong's character. And the homage to Heart of Darkness / Apocalypse Now.
I feel that zhaos fatal flaw that is consistently shown throughout avatar is his lack of self control. Here he burns his own ships, when he loses to zuko he tries to attack him dishonorable and the finale of the show he kills the fish out of pure rage. He can be manipulative and scheming but he is easy to be enraged and once he is its hard to put out, like a fire.
There is an interesting way in which Jeong Jeong comes across as someone who would be bad to teach Aang about fire because he's also a self-hating fire-bender. Sure he's a genius, and sure, he understand the dangers of fire, but his views and experiences are polluted by him personally having to deprogram himself from Fire Nation propaganda. For someone like Aang, who's generally ignorant of fire bending this would just affirm his fears of fire. So I'm glad they went with the dragons and the Sun people teaching Zuko and Aang an important lesson that goes to the root of fire bending.
That actually sums it up quite well. To Jeong Jeong, firebending is a "burning curse". To the Sun Warriors, it's a "living sun". The Sun Warriors teach Aang why firebending is a positive trait, whereas Jeong Jeong does nothing but say that's it evil. So in the end, he just taught Aang to hate himself for being a firebender.
@@ShinobiPXO Well, the problem is that Aang isn't following the Avatar cycle. Learning to earthbend would have given him the stability and firm control necessary to stop his fire from spreading. So I think Jeong Jeong's approach was necessary for a pre-earthbending Aang. Like, if he had been taught by the Sun Warriors or the Firebending Masters at this point in his journey, I think Aang still would have made the same mistake he made here. By the time he has to learn Firebeinding again though, he doesn't have a problem with control, and needs to unlearn his perspective of fire as something purely destructive instead.
Fun fact, you don't HAVE to learn the elements in a particular order, its just the traditional way to go about it. Kyoshi herself learned the elements out of order.
Zhao getting tricked by Aang is actually perfectly in line with his character. Whereas Zhao is a masterfully cunning and intelligent planner, as well as a skilled firebender, his ambition, hubris and hotheadedness in the heat of battle cause him to be short-sighted all the time. It cost him the Agni Kai against Zuko because Zuko fought smart and went after Zhao's roots while Zhao had too much confidence in his raw power. It cost him Aang during the Blue spirit because Zhao could not imagine someone coming in to save the avatar. Now Zhao has perfectly planned his attack on Aang and Jeong Jeong, but at the moment of truth he is so sure he can win by simply overpowering Aang that it actually hinders his creative thinking and makes him fail to realise that he is being tricked. Besides this, his pride and hubris make him even more susceptible to Aang taunting him with being unable to take him down, since in his mind that should be a given, so him losing his cool even more, causing more short-sightedness also is logical, which is enhanced even further by Aang(unknowingly) triggering his memory of being humiliated by Zuko all the way back in season one. In conclusion, yes, Zhao absolutely would lose this battle due to his hubris, lack of calm restraint and discipline in the heat of battle and that lack of restraint is perfectly symbolized in him destroying his own ships.
Yes! I also think that he was starting to slip, just a bit. Like you said, he had taken a lot of heavy blows to his pride. Instead of being able to keep a cool head (like I think he might have been able to in the past), Aang's insults hit a need to redeem himself. After all, he did lose Aang right after his promotion. I think it's not too much of a stretch to say that Zhao saw that as a personal failure and wanted to recapture Aang. Of course, this didn't work, leading him to try and take the Northern Water Tribe. Again, it didn't work. That left the spirits to break him and reduce him to what we see in LOK. Just my take.
This is a reasonable take, but I think Overanalyzing's point is that he could have been a more interesting villain if he couldn't be provoked by the words of a child. To me, a flaw in Zhao's character is that his rapid ascension to the rank of Admiral does not fit his numerous blunders. When he first met Zuko in the show, he had just been promoted, then lost to Zuko - who wasn't even that good, at the time - and next we see him he's promoted again to the highest rank in the Navy? It makes the fire nation seem like a bit of a joke
True but Zhao didn't have to turn into a comical villain here. Had he hit Aang once or twice and Aang still manages to get him to burn his fleet (maybe deflects his fireballs), then he'd be a lot more compelling down the stretch
What I also like about Roku appearing to Jeong Jeong is that it emphasizes how important it is for Aang to learn fire bending. The universe and past avatar lives are intervening on his behalf to try and get him a teacher because they know how important it is. For me, this was a clue early on that even though Aang says he's never going to water bend again, that they would need to find another instructor and as we saw Zuko's character arc over the season that it would eventually be either him or Iroh (after the Book 2 finale, I really thought it would be Iroh).
Jeong Jeong's line about the fish in the river is pretty cheesy, but he's basically saying that Aang's sight is limited by his age, like a fish that will never see the ocean. It has no right saying what the ocean is like. Aang can't say what his destiny is because he's too young to understand it.
I think it's less about his age and more about his experience. JJ keeps pointing out that he's weak or lacks discipline or how he hasn't learned the other styles yet, but nowhere does he just say "you're too young".
@@ferdinandvillafuerte468 also he says “even if the fish is to spend its whole life in this river” in the metaphor so it’s pretty openly about experience/perception, which generally increases with age, but not necessarily.
@@ferdinandvillafuerte468 "What would a boy know about destiny?" - @ 3:26, "boy" implying he's too young. But yeah, I agree, it's about his lack of discipline or experience, I just rolled that into age. Obviously some young people can be mature, and some old people can be immature, but it seemed to me like JJ was treating youth and immaturity as one in the same.
@@ferdinandvillafuerte468 I don't know, to me it seems like he is talking about people in general, regardless of age OR experience. I'm no expert but the line sounds like a famous Taoist quote I herd one about being water that flows around a rock. Personally I think JJ calling out Ange for acting like hot sh!t when he doesn't know what's gonna happen next more than anyone else.
@@astrobeef-l4581 To me, the way he said “boy” in the context of the rest of his speech felt more like implying Aang was young mentally and spiritually, but not physically-pointing back to experience again, instead of age.
i actually really liked what this episode did to zhao. this extrapolation of his character into growing unhinged and reckless when faced with defeat sort of makes him a pre-ozai. the show has this theme where the fire nation villains are deeply imbued with this pride in their character that drives their terrible actions. zuko's character begins with this pride, but it becomes constructive as he develops, and zhao is the first example of this dangerous sense of arrogance. when his ego is being supported by the things happening around him, zhao is calm, soft-spoken, and a manipulative threat -- see how he acts in his first scenes -- but when his pride is challenged, aka by being defeated by a banished prince or 12 year old airbender, he gets pissed. and this moment of defeat for him probably makes his destructive nature fester into the book 2 finale. azula has this pride written all over her character. she's always full of herself, always believing to be the smartest and strongest in the room -- often, she is -- and always bossing others around. and when she's betrayed at the boiling rock, she's so taken aback because for the first time people don't bow to her command. we only learn later on that her pride is rooted deep into her upbringing and pressure under ozai, and it ultimately drives her mad. ozai is the final iteration of this -- powerful, _absolutely fucking unhinged,_ and so full of himself and full of prejudice against other people that he is ready to burn the rest of the world and crown himself as the absolute king of the world. he is full of royal pride and, quite frankly, racial pride -- and so much of it runs through him that it bled into all of the characters i mentioned above. and what did aang do when he defeated him? he took away his bending. in other words, he took away the source of his pride -- being a firebender -- and, in effect, destroyed the origin of this entire theme.
Well said! I know person analyzing the video didn't like this part about Zhao but I agree it shows how truly unstable firebenders or some fire benders are.
The country does largely revolve around the Fire Lord, being a tightly controlled absolute monarchy with a _possible_ cult of personality, so I can see how Ozai's defeat was also the symbolic defeat of every tragic flaw of the Fire Nation which Ozai just so happens to perfectly embody.
@@wildfire9280 Possible? Did you miss the fire nation schooling? They definitely built a cult around his character. Same deal with Hirohito in ww2. The writers struck at a very large part of imperialist nations.
8:14 I think the thing here is more of a master versus novice thing. Katara sat still because she didn't react in time, given how she cowers in fear when the one approaching them hits; meanwhile Jeong Jeong sat still because he was preparing to block the one about to come at them, as he did perfectly.
I really respect that Aang's regret for hurting Katara creates a long lasting mental block that "prevents" him from using fire for a long time. I actually think it's one of those deep seated choices. A choice that he embodies despite that if he didn't have that mental block he would have raw fire power (if not subtle disciplined control). He recognizes how important discipline is and swears with his mind and body to not touch that power knowing he "can't" until he's developed more.
He developed quickly 😊 it's amazing how much growth can happen in weeks and months when there is daily exposure to all things relevant to his role in the world.
"I don't know why, but I thought you'd be better than Zuko :D" might have hit a sore spot since Zhao knows that he did in fact lose the agni-kai to Zuko a dozen or so episodes ago.
6:56 it always felt like it was originally going to be Sokka punching Aang or something but Nick being "No change it" So they made it to Sokka used Tackle attack.
I feel like that reflects better on Sokka too, like he's aware of his strength so he doesn't wanna punch a clearly distressed 12 year old, but is still mad enough to feel the need to use violence to drive the message of "you're too reckless" in further, especially as he wasn't on board for this detour in the first place 👀
Considering Aang did it unintentionally (and was much younger), it would have been way ooc for Sokka. Sokka punching Jet, though? We were denied, because that is 20/10 in character.
Has anyone ever noticed that the voice actor for the pigeon bender shows up multiple times in the show and is definitely the voice actor for robin in teen titans go? He is that messenger guy in Bato of the water tribe, and that one student in Ba Sing Se
Honestly, in a world where magic is common (and nothing in Avatar indicates the FIre Nation has a shortage of fire benders), firearms likely would not have developed, or at least they would have been greatly delayed. The concept of firearms in the real world began with the development of large brass cannons that were basically using a modified bell shape. They were big, heavy, hard to move, and nobody had come up with a good way to hold them in place for recoil other than pulling them off their cart and half burying them on an earthwork ramp. Which in turn makes it *very* hard to aim. They also were very prone to overheating, which would allow the brass to warp enough to destroy the cannon (either blowing outward such that it didn't fire with sufficient force or the barrel deformed enough that the stone (or metal if you were really dedicated) ball within couldn't get out....which makes it a giant pipebomb in the middle of your army. Early "handguns" weren't much better - the term "handgun" originally meaning any firearm that is small enough for one soldier to carry and use, since "gun" meant cannon. They were basically small cannons mounted on the ends of a polearm, and you pointed the pole at the enemy and lit the fuse with a match...and held steady until it fired. It's not until a couple of centuries on in the 1500s and 1600s that you start seeing firearms that resemble the classic musket we tend to think of as the staple of pre-rifle firearms, and even then there's a number of substantial, though smaller changes in the firing system (like developing the flintlock rather than matchlock's actual burning match and fuse) and getting to acceptable levels of guns that don't just explode in your hands rather than sending a bullet in the right direction. The history of firearms is long and very complex. If you've got the ability to train soldiers to literally control fire and you're at the very start of the process, why the hell would you bother? You've got something that's so much more powerful than anything that's close to being viable. Sure some mad genius can (and probably will) work on the idea for years and years in the small scale and once they've finally developed something vaguely close to a legitimate threat on a battlefield dominated by magic, the idea will suddenly proliferate and become very popular (unless you're in a world where magic is commonly viable and usable by literally everyone, since then you need guns to surpass what magic is capable of, and that's a very rare setting.)
But I mean also, they got spears and other such normal weapons for the non-benders. A fair firearm would really boost their effectiveness by a solid degree.
@@turkeygod6665 If someone were to give them a decently functional revolver, yes. But firearms had a lot of massive hurdles early on - the earliest firearms were extremely basic cannons - They were usually aimed on an earthen ramp that soldiers would dig into in order to change the angle of attack or turn. - They weren't very powerful - more powerful than a trebuchet, but that's a fairly low margin when you're considering the full history of artillery. - They were extremely prone to overheating, and could misfire and kill the gun crew if they were even a little too hot. - They were incredibly inaccurate. Hitting a city wall consistently was considered a feat of gunnery at first, and the first armies that managed to focus on a specific section of wall pretty much shocked all of Europe because actually managing to aim at a 10 foot wide section of wall was considered impossible. Compare that to bending. Earthbenders can just tunnel under the wall, or turn the wall into an open gateway. Waterbenders can get water into the joints and freeze it, bringing the wall down. They can also straight up cut through metal, as seen in The Drill. Airbenders can fly over. Firebenders are the only group that walls present a serious obstacle to, and given their ability to make concussive blasts, they're far better off shooting blasts that operate like modern artillery shells than making that explosion happen in a tube and shooting a rock into the target. Once you start getting into 1900 era firearms, there's definitely an advantage - artillery by then was better than anything the firebenders manage except with comet superpowers, and would be accessible to all other combatants. Rifles give people incredible stopping power at ranges where bending literally doesn't matter at all. But that technology came from centuries of refinement of the original crude concept, and if you don't take that first step, you never get decent firearms. That said, it's not impossible for firearms to be developed in a fantasy world, but they'd have to be the product of some obsessive genius who gets stuck on an idea and has substantially more advanced knowledge of materials. Someone like the guy who invented the hot air balloon in the Northern Air Temple, but more focused. Once they've iterated on the process and have something decently accurate and portable, armies used to using bows and spears and swords would start mass producing them and iterating up the technology in droves, but early firearms were very much a niche technology. There's a reason the gap between the invention of gunpowder (the earliest known record of a formula for it dates to 808 CE in China) and the development of fire lances (a flamethrower that was basically weaponized muzzle flare) at some point in the 1100s CE, is so long: it's hard to make an explosive powder into a useful weapon. The addition of projectiles to be thrown came even later.
honestly its such a shame Jeong Jeong's concepts of control and humility in firebending is never really used much again, i think the idea of this opposite philosophy to traditional firebending could have been developed so much more.
I think the idea is that Jeong Jeong’s philosophy and technique is heavily curbed by his disgust and fear (rightfully so considering his backstory), but would not necessarily bring the artform back to the true purpose it was created for, ala the Sun Warriors.
It is explored more, but you have to be paying attention to notice. When aang truly learns fire bending, it is AFTER he has already learned discipline, both from paku who is willing to use both carrot and stick, as well as toph who is an avid fan of the stick. When he accepts zuko as his teacher, it is this exact moment where he lacks restraint that proves he learned through regret. Then finally, the idea of nurturing a flame as if it was alive itself includes an implied discipline. How can you raise something living if not for the discipline to carry through? Abandon the discipline and the life will either perish or lash out for lack of care.
Jeong jeong’s line about the fish echos the line “whoever discovered water, it certainly wasn’t a fish”, which was first recorded by an anthropologist explaining why it’s important to listen to people outside a culture not just those within it while studying it. He’s saying that being in/surrounded by something does not give you the best perspective on it. Which in this case means that even though Aang can follow his destiny he will not be in a position to know where in it he lies, or where it ends.
I always interpreted Jeong Jeong’s quote as him saying that Aang is young and naive, and he thinks he is wise based only on the very small portion of the world he’s seen (the river) and he really isn’t as wise as he thinks, and he can’t understand the greater world (the ocean)
I will say Zhao as a whole was weirdly easy to goad at the end, but I think it could've been really good if the line about Zuko being better than him was the one that set him off. Zhao is clearly a very proud man that has never seemed to have faced much difficulty, yet he was beaten in Agni Kai by a 14 teen year old banished prince with no special skill in fire bending. Aang saying the line about Zuko should hit a pretty serious nerve with Zhao causing him to blow up, yet they treated it like a throw away line that was just an insignificant part of Aang's taunting. I guess that's to say it's disappointing that they had the tools to make that scene work in character, but they failed to execute.
@@Vanillastump honestly age is mostly just a number when it comes to being a master bender in this show. All of Aangs crew plus Azula are at the very top when it comes to bending ability by the end of series. Even Zuko is essentially a master bender in season 1 (as evidence of him beating Zhao, he'd defeat 99% of firebenders in this universe). He just isnt at the very top yet with people like Azula, Jeong Jeong, Iroh etc.
@@100navat That isn't really the point. Plus, Zuko isn't a master. The only firebending we saw Zuko do before the series was him embarrassing himself in front of Azulon. And Zhao sees himself as better than Zuko, regardless of how good he or Zuko are. Arrogance doesn't have to be earned.
The Zheo in his introduction, and the Zheo we see now are the same person. When he's first introduced, he's in his element. He's at a Fire Nation Base that he has huge amounts of influence over. He knows he's on the fast track for promotions and status. So when we see him, he's cool and collected. Cocky even. But really, underneath the showy exterior, he's a ruthless, arrogant, lunatic with a tendency for violence and outward displays of rage. Couple that with the fact that he's been bested repeatedly for weeks by two teenagers whom he deems completely inferior, and you have a recipe for an already deranged lunatic to become truly unhinged.
I find it interesting how what we see with both the masters of fire that we love - Jeong Jeong and Iro - is that they have theoretically mastered every element. They can't bend them, but they know the theory, movements, and rules around all of them, allowing them to further master their own element by knowing exactly what it is and where it fits in the larger world, and perhaps help create new moves by using said knowledge.
3:20 Oddly enough, after watching this, you actually realise that Aang carries himself slightly more “smoothly” after mastering waterbending, “firmer” after earthbending, and then overall more confidently when he’s comfortable with firebending (we don’t get to see much of it, due to him freaking out about the eclipse, war and comet)
I think Zhao was like that this episode from built up frustration of constant failure. From the start every time we see him he's slightly less composed. At this point his men have just failed him again right in front of him, for the second time in two days. Then the next thing to happen is the thing he was failing at starts taunting him at his failures, and he just loses it. Also fish = Aang, river = his journey, and ocean = his outcome/destiny. He says Aang doesn't know what his destiny is nor how he will reach it, just like how the fish doesn't know when or where the ocean will be at the end of the river.
I still think one of the coolest things about the series as a whole is that the Elements are always treated as entirely different but the same, disciplines from one carry to the next. A Fire Bender would find it easy to control the vastness and borderline abstract ideas and techniques of Air Bending, the discipline needed to control Fire would carry well into the spiritual discipline needed for Air Bending. Though that doesn't go both ways, as a natural born Air Bender would have difficulty with the strict disciplines of the mind and body that a Fire Bender must master to achieve their highest heights, and when thinking about it through this lens, it makes Iroh and the White Lotus members seem even more terrifyingly skilled.
This is a breaking point for the dear General. It isn't the Zhao we're introduced to, this is several promotions and a failed agni Kai later. He changes, just like everyone else.
Fun fact, you see a cannon on one of the air ships when Azula attacks the air temple. The problem with hand held guns is that the early iterations are really only useful as terror weapons. Good luck terrorizing someone who's been fighting people who can shoot fire from their hands all their lives and can throw a tank sized rock at your head. It took generations of people building on ideas to make a gun that could give a pleb a chance against a bender. That's a lot of time and effort to invest into something you have no assurance will bare fruit.
An early gun was more than just a terror weapon. It essentially was a crossbow that used explosive chemical reactions to hurl a projectile instead of elastic potential energy. Crossbows could already turn plate armor into swiss cheese, and a .69 calibur musket can do 10x the damage from farther away. Yeah sure, the reload time sucks, but thats why you had a flipping BAYONETTE on the end to effectively double it into a short spear.
@@UltimateDurzan They were mostly terror weapons because they were stupid inaccurate. I'm not even talking things like civil war muskets, or anything you would recognize as a gun, I'm talking literal hand cannons that werea literally just a tiny cannon on a stick. To get to modern guns you have to go through that entire line of development which would be a massive resourse hole with literally no fruit to bare until you get a long way down the line.
china has had gunpowder for centuries if I remember correctly so yeah guns took a long time to be made and even then it took an incredibly long time for them to be effective, weren't cannons more effective long ranged gunpowder weapons compared to guns for a fair many centuries
What about a gun that just uses firebending with no gunpowder, seems like that might be able to fast track things a bit. Would also keep it from being used by earth kingdom and water tribe
10:11 I think that it actually makes sense for Xiao to fall for Aang provoking him, since Aang unknowingly reminds him of the Agnikai he lost to Zuko previously and attacks his pride, from which his coniving nature seems to stem. Xiao is a very intelligent and coniving villain when can prove himself to be superior to others and when he loses this edge he has nothing but anger left.
@@DaDunge there's actual and official romanized spellings of chinese characters referred to as Pinyin, Xiao is most commonly referring to the chinese character for small
@@Xeno-The-Wanderer If that's the case, that's a really hilarious coincidence. Zhao has a big ego, has lots of pride and grand plans, but he was defeated by a teenager in a fire bending duel, a teenager that was still studying the fundamentals of fire bending at the time. He can't back up his ambitions. Sounds pretty "small" to me.
Speaking of the benders in the intro, I always thought the Water bender was Packo Earth bender was The Bolder Fire bender was Azula Air bender was Monk Gyatso
The spear dudes are actually from Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad, or its more popular film adaptation, Apocalypse Now. This episode's whole setting is an adaptation of this story. A military officer has gone AWOL in a dangerous jungle (Jeong Jeong) and is operating with natives (spear dudes) to kick the Imperialist military's ass (fire nation), so a younger officer (Zhao) is sent on a journey up a river to save/kill him. Chey being a goofy fanatic is from this story too. The book does a lot to show how ridiculous, wasteful and brutal Imperialist war is, and specifically counters the common thinking in London from the time (1890s) that there were "savage" and "civilized" races. Big themes for a kid's show but this is Avatar we're talking about. I forgot one more adaptation people might know, the video game Spec Ops: The Line.
Spec Ops: The Line was a strange game. Not sure of any other game that made you so thoroughly wreck your character, and make you, the player, feel like a bad person for playing. Like the game says “Hey, you see the shit this guy’s in? The atrocities he’s committed? Yeah. You personally made him do it. How do you feel now?”
I love that jong jong says “I have never seen such raw power” and was giving such a hard time to Aang.. excellent teacher , treating Aang like anyone else eveen tho he knows how powerful he is
Jeong-Jeong’s philosophical monologue also mentions that fire is life and that’s a sentiment carried out in the episode with the sun warriors discussing the original form of fire bending.
Look Ma, I'm in the credits! I interpreted Jeong Jeong's fish thing as like, you can't predict the future. *cough* Madame Wu *cough*. Like, the fish lives in the river and only has a limited view of the world. Even by following the river and learning more, you still can't claim to know how things will end. Also, I like the Northern Air Temple! It's not my favorite by any means, but I like the characters introduced, I like that Sokka shows off his intelligence, and I like that they explored how much Air Nomad culture has been lost, on top of the people lost during the war
I think that Zhao's character is pretty consistent in this episode, this feels like exactly the same guy who attempted to burn Zuko when his back was turned after winning the Agni Kai. I do think that Aang's insults were pretty childish and his strategy was obvious though, which is a shame because the show usually takes fights like this pretty seriously. If Aang was just a lot more subtle with his plans then I think this fight would've felt a lot more realistic.
seriously if that attack had hit that would not af gone well banishment or no he just asaulted and burned the prince of the fire nation who just beat ass in a duel with plenty of witnesses barring what iroh would do to him I doubt the nation would approve of that either
At 4:54 Roku says, "I have mastered the elements a thousand times in a thousand lifetimes." In The Legend of Korra, harmonic convergence happens every 10,000 years, meaning the first avatar lived 10,000 years ago. This means on average, the avatar only reaches 10 years of age. And remember Roku said they MASTERED the four elements. Must've been some pretty legendary kids.
@@mranima748Hyperbole to what degree though? 900 lives? 800? Even if he had only gone through 100 reincarnations, that means that the Avatars only live, on average, to be 100 years old. Nah, it's far more likely that the bad writing that plagues Korra just unintentionally retconned this line as well.
One detail I really appreciate about Jhong Jhong recognizing Kataras healing abilities is that he specifically used gender neutral language of “powerful waterbenders”, when it could’ve easily been downgraded to simply the woman benders as we learn healing is the only type of bending woman in the northern water tribe can do, which itself is looked down as a lesser form but not by Jhong Jhong
3:27 when Aang said he was the Avatar and it was his destiny to learn firebending Jeong Jeong gets really angry. Why? Because Jeong Jeong seems to believe that you can't actually know or control your destiny nor you can predict the turns that life has (something like fire?). Like a fish can't predict the river future nor change where it goes but only go with the flow the same with destiny. Also it would seem to imply the lack of the general picture one has of the world and the possible ramifications of the actions because of all the things we don't know, like 'a fish who lives all his life in the river can't imagine the ocean'. Jeong Jeons has a point when he says Aang wasn't ready because he doesn't understand all the damage he can do with fire, but because it was so necessary for him to learn firebending, Roku intervenes.
Hope this makes sense as it’s my interpretation: The fish in a river metaphor I’m pretty sure is just a way of describing how a single person cannot claim to know what’s at the end of their road or what their road even is/how it will end up in time, even if they’re the Avatar. Aang “knows” his and the world’s destiny only to the degree that he knows of what he’s supposed to do by the end of it and the vague idea of “learn the elements”, but he still doesn’t know the in between from where he is and where he’s going. It kinda ties into the “how you carry yourself” obeservation, where he can tell Aang is inexperienced and not truly ready, so this continues that topic with aang claiming he knows his destiny. The fish doesn’t know the ocean and probably can’t even think about it as it’s only been in the river and Aang doesn’t know how the rest of the world is since he’s still young or how he’s going to learn the elements or how he’ll accomplish his goals.
My interpretation of the "fish in a river" scene was that he was reprimanding Aang for presuming to know best. Jeong Jeong is basically saying "Oh you think it's your DESTINY to boss me around and learn firebending RIGHT NOW? Well guess what little guy, you don't know as much as you think you do. When it comes down to it, you're just one more fish in the sea trying to figure things out just like the rest of us, so don't start pretending you actually understand the DESTINY OF THE WORLD (aka the ocean)." PS - This is definitely a highlight episode for me. It introduces a lot of nuance not just to bending, but also our hero's journey. Interestingly, it also shows the avatars as flawed, because we see Roku so dramatically overrule Jeong Jeong's refusal, and then in the same episode see exactly why that was a bad idea. That moment doesn't get explored any further in the show but it did stick with me.
1:56 Gun powder was confirmed to be around for nearly 100 years before it was used for war and nearly 300 years before it was used as a catalyst for a projectile weapon let alone anything that might be considered a gun. There is even evidence that it might have been around for nearly a 1000 years before it was used for war. Having access to something and utilizing it effectively are 2 totally different things. The romans had a basic understanding of the mechanical potential of steam but relegated it to a novelty item failing to see the bigger potential it had.
Seriously what kind of logic was that? Do they think they know what guns are pre-invention?? How would they know “Okay now we can make guns!” when guns don’t exist yet… It’s like discovering clay and immediately inventing everything ever made out of clay
I love this episode, I watched it for the first time when I was really young and it was so painful to watch (in a good sense) that It stuck with me through my whole life. Just that sound of Katara crying was burned into my memory no pun intended. Really taught me about control, regret, and thinking about what you do to avoid accidentally hurting people.
I think the ocean part is kinda like saying “seeing the big picture.” All they know is what they see, the river, the river flows like time, you don’t see where the river is leading to as a fish, you just see the river.
Zhao getting mad is entirely justified. He's having his pride directly challenged by the biggest goal of the fire nation, and a 12 year old at that. After what Zhong Zhong said, Zhao def. has at least a tiny suspicion that Aang could really beat him, and that makes him mad. Also he uses the typical anger-focused firebending, as opposed to the breathing and life focused ones that Zhong Zhong and Iroh use.
I think Jeong Jeong is saying something similar to the Japanese proverb of a frog in a well. A tadpole growing up in a well will think the entire world is just the well and the sky is only the section above them. But as they become a frog and jump out of the well they will see a larger world but they must grow into a frog first
It might be part of a pretty cartoonish fight but Aang's "I don't know why but I thought you'd be better than Zuko" followed by a massive direct fireblast is so fucking good haha. The comedic timing and the fact Zhao doesn't say anything and we don't see his reaction, we don't need to, is so funny. And it again makes the world feel more real and 3 dimentional that there's individuals ostensibly on the same side with their own motivations - obviously we the audience have known that the whole time but it's being acknowledged in universe.
My reading on the Jeong Jeong Philosophy bit: Basically criticizing Aang (fish) for thinking his experience in the "lake" (current life/bending experience) is sufficient to face the "ocean" (dangers of fire bending)
Somewhere in the episode, I can't remember when, but a cart containing masks go by and one of the masks is the blue spirit's. Of course it's during the festival though.
That scene with Roku appearing to Jeong Jeong always gives me goosebumps. It is perfect. With the music and the drawing and the calm yet serious manner of Roku gets me. Also it really underlines that he is a sacred and ancient spirit. Something so deep there, rarely ever a scene gives me such goosebumps.
I think Jeong Jeong's speech is tying into everything Iroh tells Zuko about destiny (and sort of I guess maybe Aunt Wu in The Fortune Teller and probably a bunch of other people). It's impossible to know your own destiny - your life may be oriented towards a particular goal and you may feel 'destined' to reach a certain event, but how that 'destiny' plays out is the result of your actions and choices up to that point and beyond it. Destiny is the ocean: bigger and more unknowable than anything the fish in the river can imagine. By the way I'm currently binging your entire channel and I'm loving every second.
I always interpreted Jeong Jeong's quote in this episode similarly to God's lecture to Job in the Bible- no one can hope to comprehend all that happens in this world because the universe is just way too complex. Aang can't possibly know what his destiny is because not only has he not lived through it completely yet, but destiny is too complicated a thing for someone to ever be confident in their interpretation of it.
hear me out about Jeong-Jeong's metaphor: Aang is the fish, the river is the Avatar's journey. Aang knows what his end goal is but is confusing it with his destiny which is explicitly to master the elements and die. If the river fish makes it to the ocean, the fish's journey has ended and anything that happened in between was just a matter of consequence. If Aang were to learn Firebending before he was properly matured and attuned to the other elements, if a fish were to swim for the ocean assuming it was its destiny, the consequences would be far beyond the fish's control. I think.
I feel like what Jeong Jeong was saying is that, Aang hasn’t completely finished mastering the other elements, he can’t imagine the ocean ( which in this case I could imagine being finishing fire bending and mastering all the elements) whereas at the moment he is only a fish in the river, he has no idea about what the ocean is, and since he hasent come down the river yet he cannot begin to imagine the ocean, at the moment Aang is living in the river, not wanting to go down the river, and master what he has to first, he assumes that he is ready to learn firebending, he is assuming he knows his destiny, when he cannot know the destiny of the river as it’s something he has yet to travel fully
I just want to mention that I don't think Zhao was out of character here. While he is shown to be calm and collected when he has the upper hand, upon defeat his anger can spin out of control, much like how he lashed out against Zuko when his back was turned. This was shameful, but his anger got the best of him. Also, if I remember correctly, Jong Jong was Zhao's master. Having your master make a fool of you in front of your men would be humiliating in the extreme and helps to explain his blind rage. Basically, his calm and rational demeanor is a front, covering his insecurities over proving himself and rising through the ranks. Great video as always. Thank you so much for making these.
I think the most out of character he ever was in the Blue Spirit episode where he's so insistent on catching the avatar alive to allow the encircled Aang and Zuko escape from his encampment for plot convenience. Seems he'd have either called Zuko's bluff or went away with their capture anyway- if avatar dies in the process so be it, he still captures a dangerous traitor and now has the perfect reason to present to the Fire Nation administration in support for his dream of Northern Water tribe's invasion.
At like 9:44ish you don't like what it does to Zhao but it's a perfect character moment subtlety, he's calm and badass and powerful when things are going his way, but the moment things drift from his control he panics and tantrums, gets pissed that he's not the one in power anymore, instead of staying calm and objectively figuring out and taking steps twords how to regain the upper hand.
god, i love your channel intro. It's so simplistic and too the point, but also *noice.* never been a fan of drawn-out intros, so yours is extra noice imo.
3:20 I always assumed Jeong-Jeong lied about how he knew Aang hadn't mastered water and earth. Since the white lotus kept some track of Aang and his training I assumed Jeong-Jeong got the info from there. He of course can't say that, so he claimed he could see it in his walking instead.
4:11 My understanding of the cosmic universal stuff : i can imagine Jeong Jeong being irritated by Aang using the term destiny very casually and without truly understanding it. He then uses the below story to explain why destiny isn't as simple as he thinks. "If a fish lives it's whole life in this river, does he know the river's destiny? No! Only that it runs on and on, out of his control. He may follow where it flows, but he cannot see the end." Aang says he needs to learn fire bending because it's his Destiny even though Jeong Jeong tells him to get out. Almost feels like a privilege, to by pass any red tape. Now Jeongx2 isn't irritated by Aang because he is using destiny as a privilege token, but rather that he doesn't understand that Destiny is still a mystery, even if you know what you are expected to be doing, just like the river which we know flows in one direction, but cannot see the end to. this does take a step back, since Mr.Roku appears a few seconds later to put Jeong Jeong in his place, so maybe not that solid? what do you guys think?
0:58 Are they using actual hand puppets? Cause if they are, that explains the fire coming out of the puppets mouth but the dude controlling the earth kingdom soldiers puppet has third degree burns down to is wrist at least
2:03 Actually, it took an additional few hundred years between the discovery of gunpowder (900ish) to the creations of cannons (somewhere between 1300-1400). As it turns out the difficult part of making cannons isn't the explosives but instead the metallurgy required to make something strong enough to withstand the explosion.
The problem is that the fire nation seems to have industrial revolution type steel. So the being able to make canons with steel doesn't seem out of their cabalities.
3:48 None of the above. He’s talking about himself here, not Aang. Specifically his journey as a soldier, as a fire bender, and as a man. The ocean most likely represents true knowledge and understanding embodied by his goal to find something meaningful/peaceful/honorable to do with his fire-bending and to a much greater extent his life. The river represents his journey (and how constraining it’s been for him), notice how he says it “runs on and on out of his control” clearly referencing his own life and how for years he’s tried to make sense of it and take control with little to no results. He goes on to talk about how fire is wild and dangerous clearly talking about himself, and later when he seems envious of Katara for being able to heal with her water bending this starts to reveal the whole puzzle. Jong Jong is in a deep inescapable pit of self loathing. He hates his past, himself and his fire-bending for being a constant reminder of the monster he used to be. He had no control and no true understanding so he’s attempted to build control of himself so that he can someday find a way to break free of the narrow confines of the river (his life) and finally reach the ocean (enlightenment). He recognizes this fundamental lack of understanding of these truths in Aang and rightfully says he isn’t ready.
1:11 That just reminded me of something. I remember when I was a kid, my parents got me a subscription to the Nickelodeon magazine, and I distinctly remember a short Avatar comic about the Gaang looking to recruit new members. The thing was, that all the people they looked at were really weird and unique benders that don't appear in the show. The only two I can specifically remember were that one of them could specifically bend cookie dough and apparently nothing else, and the other could bend shadows and use them like whips. Really cool concepts for bending "mutations" or something? Even though it was likely just meant to be a joke for the magazine.
My favourite part of Jeong Jeong's character display in this episode is his value and knowledge of the other elements. Not just the talking about water; but when he conjures the fire wal he moves like an earthbender. That always really stuck with me
I think that's the shows way of subtly setting up his inclusion in the Order of the White Lotus. All the members understand the importance of drawing knowledge from all cultures instead of just their own, like how Iroh learned to redirect lightning from the water benders. Multiple times throughout the show we see that a lot of the most powerful benders are the ones who bend creatively instead of limiting themselves to the usual orthodox methods of their culture
I just wanna say, I really appreciate that you pointed out how powerful Jeong Jeong is. I've been trying to tell people he's arguably the most powerful firebender for years but no one listens to me. He's one of my fav characters so thanks for doing him justice :) also, your dry delivery and everyday audio quality is amazing and absolutely makes this perfect, don't ever change
he only got a few scenes the series so thats probably why most people forget about him. He also kinda handicapps himself with his extremly defensive use of firebending. But just looking at his insane amount of fire he can produce and control perfectly in few seconds he for sure has be the biggest potential of any firebender in the series. Only thing is he probably cant or doesnt want to bend lightning because he wouldnt be able to use it with his style of bending.
3:30 there is an old Japanese proverb I read somewhere that said, “ a frog in a well does not know the great sea.” And its meaning was that there’s more going on than you know, try and see the big picture. I think this is what jeong jeong was going for. For aang to stop being narrow minded on firebending and take a look at what’s going on around him. Which is a cool lesson since he uses that against zhao later. Just my thoughts.
1:13 Maybe falcon-doves or something? In Book 2 we once see 'Sparrow-keets', so it seems that less outrageous mixes are possible, maybe birds being particularly prone to that. Or they could be a completely original bird that just fulfills a similar niche but is superficially similar, like the messenger hawks.
There isn't another channel on RU-vid that I audibly laugh aloud during every single video except for this one. I'm both glad I found you this early so I can watch you grow as a creator (You can already see a ton of growth), but sad because I can't just sit and binge the full season. Amazing work dude! Quickly became one of my top 10 youtube channels!
I have an even simplier interpretation of the fish river analogy. All he's saying is "You are a small fish in a big pond" He's saying the exact opposite of Aunt Wu. "Just as you reshaped those clouds, you have the power to reshape your destiny". Here I believe he's saying that as mere humans we've no concept of destiny as it's bigger than us and it's out of our control. Personally I don't really see how that disproves that the Avatar needs to learn firebending. You don't need to be La the ocean spirit to know that bending the 4 elements is kinda their whole thing. But it's obvious that Jeong Jeong's in a defeatist mindset so that explains it all.
Your commentary is just so funny sometimes. Like the sense of humor you have is spot on with mine. You’re the best. Also the edits at funny moments. Love it!
