EQ pedals are still so undervalued. That being said I've watched a bunch of vids that talk about their relevance. Now I just need to put it into practice. And practice in general :)
Just my opinion, but if you need an EQ to make your amp sound good, then it’s possible there is an amp out there that will satisfies that tone requirement you’re looking for. When you add an EQ pedal, you totally disregard the characteristics of that amp (imo).
Spot on dude. People are way too opinionated about something that doesn't affect them at all. Like you said tone is what the player is going for not some random dude on youtube. Great work dude. \m/
My take: I think overdrives (or at least TS808 circuit overdrives) in front of a high gain amp are overdone at this point. It's not something I personally want to pursue. I'm happy with not using one. That being said, the general sentiment of this video being "to each their own" rings true. If you want to use an overdrive, be my guest. It's not my rig. It's not me dialing in your tone. If that's the tone you like, go for it. Who gives a shit what I think at that point?
I would usually poo-poo this notion of 'oh I dont like something just cuz it's popular', but in the guitar world, it's hard to deny that this mentality of wanting to be contrarian and sort of forge a more unique identity is responsible for many of the innovations and trendsetters in both tone and style that we've gotten over the decades.
@@maynardburger For me, it's not even a notion of "it's popular so I don't like it". I've been just as guilty of doing it. I'm just bored of it at this point. But like I said, I don't disparage for anyone who does it or likes that tone.
Recently traded out my maxon od-808 with a boss blues driver and it rules. I was getting tired of the overdone mid hump of the od-808. The blues driver is knarly and kinda squishy while also being tight. It’s great.
I'm one of those guys that will hit the front end of the amp with a OD pedal or distortion pedal and EQ. I have early JMP heads and a Superlead that I do not want to mod or chop up..I may even look into the V2 EVO. I have learned a lot off of your clips and what ODs can do for tone on the Marshall 2204/2203 and the modern amps. It has helped me. I wish I could afford a modern head at this point but am retired from the military on a fixed budget. What you have demonstrated has helped me to get the best of my Marshalll JMPs and my DSL100. P.S. I got a hold of Mr. Wagner and he is a really nice guy and is willing to look at my DSL issue. Thank you
The more raw an amp is the better it is for me. That's why I love the Mesa Mark Series amps. You can really get a whole ton of tones out of those things
I back this 💯 you don’t need an overdrive (especially if you’re running a Mesa dual rec or any type of 5150/6505). The boost itself is just that little extra punch that can smooth out the high end. I use a TS9 on my 6505+ but I have the gain dialed back on 3 so it’s super smooth and the chords are wet. In the end it’s all personal preference. Great video Kyle! 🤘🏼
Agreed. I use the TS9 on the blue channel of My EVH 50 watt stealth and it's perfect. Like you said, it gives it a extra punch without changing much of the tone
Well stated. I once owned all the gear Dimebag used in the Vulgar Display of Power album for that tone, and well I wasn’t happy with that tone cause it wasn’t for my fingers. Your hands also affect your tone and I had to search for what I liked. So to all, try out gear and find what YOU like. My setup is: PRS MT15, ESP Ltd EC1000ET with SD Nazgûl pickup, ISP Decimator/DigiTech Drop Tune Pitch Shift/Maxon 808-OD in the front and BBE Sonic Stomp and Noise Gate in the loop; this is pushed though two 1x12 16 ohm Thiele cabs with Eminence DV77 speakers. I LOVE this setup and it’s MY sound, that’s what you all need to find; your sound.
My All time favorite setup. Guitar > preamp, mesa triaxis > 4 cable method with your amp. You can insert gate and eq in the loop as necessary. No pedals where harmed in this setup. Use the preamp like a pedal. Bypass the rack preamp, use pedals. Best of both worlds. Some amps dont need help, others shine.
I'd put it this way: depends on the needs and on the amp. No way would I use a Recto or a Mark Series for death metal or grindcore without some mid-heavy boost in front, especially if I tune down as low as B standard. 5150III (not the original 5150, it's too loose as well), on the other hand, while not my favorite way to go, would be completely acceptable. Some solid state Randalls like the RH series and some ENGLs do fine without a boost. But really, in music there are no hard rules.
I don't *need* an overdrive with my main high gain amp, but I still own a bunch of them. Because they're fun, and how else am I going to get drive tones out of my Matchless and fender bandmaster? People should do what they like. BUT..... I think the main reason for the criticism about overdrives in front of a high gain amp isn't because of how people use the ods,/amps themselves, but because lots of people are bored to death of the same "808 - 5150/recto - v30" modern metal tone. The criticism is a side effect of that, I think.
I think that for low gain amps, yes, you need that treble booster to get more gain and chug, but high gain amps have already those characteristics in them, so adding a treble booster will just get “that” boosted “sizzling” sound which may be desirable or not.
Well said. It's your tone, do what you want and how you want. I'm one that will play the amp unboosted first and not just boosts anything and everything I plug into.....those are the people I roll my eyes at. Also, I feel a great player can get a great tone without the need for a boost by just changing his/her pick attack BUT it depends on the amp too. Some amps like rectos and 2203s have a fat, loose, slow bottom end that can't be dialed out and needs a boost for metal. For rock tones, no boost is needed. 5150's...I don't see how anyone feels they "need" to boost those amps, Ed didn't boost them................ but to each their own. Again, it's your tone, do what you want.
I love real amp distortion but once you venture into the realm of overdrives and just pedals in general, it can become addicting. And I tend to be of the same mindset...lower the amp gain, then add the pedals. I've tried it several ways but that seems to work best for me.
It's all about the fun of making different sounds, I enjoy switching thing around and trying different equipment just make a sound that I like. Don't care what other people think about my tone. You have yours and I have mine and that's just fine
Similar to what you said, need and want are different things. You don’t need an overdrive in front of most any amp, but you can use one if it helps the specific sound you want. I don’t quite get the love for using ODs with the gain all the way down as opposed to dedicated boosts and EQ pedals, but I don’t have to. Guitarists as a community often get too concerned with doing something “right” when it should really be to each his own.
Before I knew that running an OD into an amp was even a thing, I LOVED the sound of my Engl Powerball. In fact it was the envy of the local scene. So chances are it didn't need a boost or people liked it without. I now own a Laney Ironheart 60 and a Peavey XXX. Neither of them NEED a boost per se but they DO need a boost for the sound I like. Well, the Laney definitely does at least. I like amps \ tones with and without. However, when I am cratfing what I want, I would nearly always opt for a boost. I like really juicy, punchy sounds for those Mid 200's metalcore single note riffs that need to leap out of the speaker into your ears.
I agree completely. To me, it's all about options and experimentation. There is no right or wrong if you want to use an OD pedal in front of a high gain amp, it all depends on what kind of sound you want, what kind of feel you want, etc. I'm glad everyone likes discussing these types of things, but in all honesty for the time and energy spent we could all probably cure cancer.
I went through a phase of trying every boost pedal I could get my hands on, but taking the time to learn to dial my amp in properly has done more to improve my tone than anything.
Totally understood, but once you understand how to manipulate the amps controls to get it to do what you want, overdrives become even more useful because you know how to dial the amp for the whole signal chain, boost or no boost,
I agree with ya. Whatever it takes to get to what you want, the sound in your head. They’re all just tools. I personally dig overdrives and such and use them if I need them, but I don’t have to. Wouldn’t it be boring if we all just had the one same sound? Eekk
The internet is the issue...to many people sharing unwanted opinions on people's personal tone..its all subjective at the end of the day..if you have to use 10 different boosts to get your sound then do it..nobody can tell you if its right or wrong 🤘
I use a ST9+ with my Dual Rec. Gain on the amp dimed at all times. Drive on the pedal to 12, level around 12. Without the pedal it just sounds dry and sluggish with a muddy low end (I also play down tuned 7 strings). There is a video with Rob Barrett from Cannibal Corpse showcasing this exact scenario and how much better it sounds (to my ears) engaged.
The way I see it, it’s nice to have two (or more) different units adding their own flavor of saturation which helps thicken it up. You could have a lot of one type or a little of multiple types, sort of like running two different amps.
One thing that often gets overlooked, and you touched on it when you talked about thrash riffs and tightness..... not every section of every song needs to sound the same. Some parts I use an OD, other parts I don't. If I'm doing a slow chug section, I can afford to let the amp do it's thing in a boomy way... but if I'm doing something faster.... then it makes sense to boost. It's all about context, and that can easily change from riff to riff even within the same song.
This was a really nicely articulated video! Thank you for sharing your opinion in such a passionate way! I agree with you! It's all down to the player, end of discussion! :)
As always, great content, Kyle, with a lot of good points. For me, the gain has nothing to do with a boost in front and everything to do with increasing harmonic content, increasing the response and feel, and shaping the sound a bit more. There is a more immediate attack, harmonic content, and reaction from the amp when playing leads through an overdrive vs without, which in turn makes me play a little better when I hear it. You do not get the same effect by turning the gain knob up by 1. Does it need it? Probably not. Can I get by without it? Probably. Do I want to get by without it? No. As long as you’re digging the sound / feel is it anyone else’s business or should they be criticizing you for using one in front of your high gain amp for your recordings like people typically do online? Definitely not.
EVH Variac is a myth, a legend; it really doesn't do much. I've tried many times with different amps; setting down input voltage decrease amp power and volume. That's all. No magic mistery.
This is also my take. Good tone is subjective, and if someone finds an unconventional or traditional method toward making it sound great to their ears, then awesome. The problem with wanting a super processed sound from an amp at the very beginning is it actually leaves you with less options toward finding something that might actually be better. Give me an unboosted amp, and a variety of overdrives to test which one compliments it and helps maximize its potential. Why WOULDN'T anyone want go approach it that way?
I think that for the purpose of reviewing amps, it is sensible to demonstrate what the amps can do and keep as many other variables as possible fixed, or use links in the chain that most of us are familiar with, such as passive pickups, 4x12 cabs, and Vintage 30 speakers. The choice to use an overdrive and what overdrive to use is highly individual, so, it is better to either omit it, or introduce it towards the end of a review (as you already do), where the use of a reference overdrives (SD-1 and TS 9) is preferred to the more exotic ones. If the review reveals that an amp is inarguably too loose in the low end, it would be especially appropriate to introduce a reference overdrive pedal to demonstrate how the amp could benefit from adding an overdrive. I think the reason many people have an issue with overdrive pedals in general is that they make cross-comparisons less reliable. Especially on a channel like yours, which reviews a large number of amps, the value of the being able to cross-compare in order to form an opinion about an amp or make a purchase decision is immense, and it is reduced when inconsistencies are introduced.
Can also be skill issue. Rectifiers sound bad when you don't strike them hard enough. Get a good, powerful firm right hand > any overdrive pedal. That's why rectos sound like shit in my hands. Poor skill lmao.
I back this 100 percent. A amp like the invective that has 3 channels, a overdrive on the clean channel, a boost on 2 high gain channels, as well as a noise gate on the high gain channels completely negates the need for pedals in terms of tone/gain gascading. And if you're a pro player, I really don't understand why somebody would wanna get a amp to pop pedals in front of when you can have everything necessary in a concise and cohesive amp. It is what it is, to each their own. The more older I get, the less I care about pedals and effects. Gimmie a real dope amp and a guitar and it's a done deal. Meat and potatoes is so pure and irreplaceable.
My Orange Crush 120 does. The orange amps have tons of low end, hard to get the pick attack for crunchy thrash riffs. It has the roar but not the bite. So I use a tube screamer with volume at 50% and little or no drive and I get that sharp pick attack I want
I think the big point is being missed here. I had amps that had tons of gain for 20yrs and never boosted but then got some that needed help. Using a TS9 lit them up not just in gain but touch sensitivity and natural harmonics you get by hitting the V1 tube hard. To say none need or benefit is incorrect. Example= Gary Holt and Zakk Wylde= (Boss SD-1), Metallica (TS9 and Pro Co Rats), Vai (TS9 and DS-1). EQ mid boosting= EVH from 78' on, Kerry King, Exodus, ect.... Love the amp demos and great content on your channel tho. Sweet shirt! I have 3 AMT preamps.
I use a J Rocket Rockaway Archer which is a klone with a 6 band eq, and I couldnt live without it. Really. Its just better in every way. Always. Even for clean tones.
When tuning down, it’s very hard to get a very tight low-end without a boost or eq to trim some of those deeper low’s. When amps have an input sculpt then the anti-boost people will have a point but only Mesa Mark’s kinda don’t that. Mixing engineers will often use 2-3 compressors on a vocal to get, say, 6db of compression. It’s not because you can’t get 6db’s with a single compressor but you might want a fast and a slow compressor a tube and a solid state or fet unit to get not just the amount of compression but the quality, timbre and tone of compression just like we do with boosts for amps.
In the very beginning both Kerry and Jeff used BOSS GE 10 and modded jcms …i teched for Kerry for reign in blood and was at just about every practice 86-88 Jeff let me borrow that JCM over summer they went to Europe first time they are all the best humans ever …we were told to handle those BOSS Ge10s like fine china …they were integral in the slayer sound back in the 80s ..that was the pedal board ..that’s it
I agree with your point of view, I believs it is pretty accurare and for your style, your approach works well. It think (as with everything in life) it’s all about the point of view. For thrash, boost definitely. You almost kinda need the sound to be a bit thinner, I think Slayer riffs would sound wierd in a non-boosted dual recto. On the other hand, people playing sludge or doom, where the guitar needs huge low end, there’s no reason to give the amp a different saturation.
At the end of the day, what sounds good to you should be the only thing that matters. Beyond that is just noise. Side note: watching Kyle hold up a ghoul screamer and a mxr 10 band made me smile. The man has good taste . Cheers!
My portable revv g20 non boosted sounds meh, but boosted it's one of my favorite high gain tones. That combinations sounds better to me than my engl fireball and friedman (even with a boost). Big fan of boosting when tone is the most important thing. On the flipside I do dislike the hassle of having one more thing to worry about.
To me, it just comes down to how some people think that what works for them is the ultimate solution, but they overlook what might work for others. I personally need an overdrive to get the kind of tone I want, regardless of the amp I'm using, but that's not to say that someone absolutely needs an overdrive to play metal. As you say, people should just experiment and find what works for them, and not worry about what others are doing.
I know this video is older now, but I am just now seeing it. I REALLY enjoy your take on this. I have a 5150 iconic, and I've been wondering if it's worth it to add an overdrive to get "my flavor". I think you're correct-I tend to dwell in the "butt rock" realm, but have been interested in the super tight djent sound. I'm gonna try out a few OD's. Any suggestions would actually be welcome for somewhere between "djent" and "butt"😂
I personally don't like overdrives with my Peaveys, I prefer to just use a clean boost, specifically a MXR/CAE MC401 on 18V set at 9 o'clock, not dimed. It lets me use a bit less amp gain for a less mushy gain structure, but it doesn't add that annoying tubescreamer EQ
Excellent overview and general philosophy about tone. I recently ordered a JCM 2000, based partially on your glowing praise, and I absolutely love the sound of the OD1 pushed by an OCD, much more so than the amp’s hi-gain overdrive channel. I’ve got a Walrus Emissary as an occasional lead boost, and it’s all really working for me when playing live. Cheers and keep the excellent content coming!
Back in 80s and 90s bands like Ratt, and Pantera used the rack-mount Furman PQ3 parametric equalizer before their amps to shape and boost them. I ain't sure why that trend went away. If anything it's way more convenient to use a parametric EQ these days because small parametric EQ pedals like the ones made by WMD, and Master Effects can do everything that the big Furman PQ3 can do.
Couldn't agree more my man, in general, less talking, more playing. Get gear, play with it, try it out, see what you can get out of it, get it to sound as close to what you hear in your head, there is no right or wrong, just do the best you can for you. Simple as that.
Here's my thought. I personally prefer looser sounding amps. Dual rectifier and now my orange rockerverb. I love hearing the amp breath without an overdrive. And that's usually how I play it. But when I want a tight chug I throw my ts9 or my dirty tree on And it's monstrous. I also run really hot pickups, I prefer how a hot pickup interacts with an Amp then a medium output pickup reacts with an overdrive to an amplifier. There's no bad sounds just what you prefer. I can always tighten an Amp up , I can't loosen it.
Pretty much. It depends on the player and style and setup in generl, the style etc. I use boosts for some ampsims/real rigs, straight in for others. No wrong answer. At the end of the day it's about the art and having fun. Glad you brought up different OD = different flavor. That's been proven many times to me over the years. It's all about experimenting.
Im an OD/Boost pedal fanatic just as much as amp heads and cabs... There are NO rules when it comes to gear... Thats what rock/metal/punk/etc is supposed to be all about... Quit sniveling about everything people do that arent things you may do, people... Or go into boring ass politics if you feel you need to be a nutbag like that... Do WHATEVER you think sounds cool to YOU, kids... Thats the fun of music... Thank you, KB. 🤘
All I know is for years nobody told me how crucial a freaking 90$ pedal could be on the front end of your sound. I bought 5150's Orange, Marshall's , engl's, and so on, Sold them all thinking they were kinda not giving me that heavy distorted tone, Now I can't play without an overdrive pedal before the amp. If I only knew what I know now! I would still have some badass amps! cheers
I got a demon tube screamer for like 40$ shipped off eBay. It's literally like the original tube screamers with the JRC4558D chips in it. I would suggest these for anyone that's scared of spending a ton on a tube screamer. I use one with my ultra plus 120 and it's fucking fantastic. Good video
One thing I did not hear mentioned about hitting the front end of the amp with a overdrive it also adds Sustain….. also remember which most people can’t deal with is what works for me might not work for you so deal with it
this always comes down to preference. for me, an overdrive is ALWAYS a staple on my board. its the sound that im going for and if someone doesnt like it, then dont listen to my playing. i use 5150iii, 6534+ and PRS archon and they all need the OD in front for my style.
I've been trying to go a different route..running a rat into my 6505+. That works well for me. But I run my pre on about 4. I also run a hm-2 into the amp. Never both pedals at once. But both on my board gives me two very different sounds.
I used to not use over drives and since I've switched out all my pickups from EMG's to Seymour Duncan passives, I can't see myself without an over drive in front. My amp sounds flubby without it and you can't hear the guitar. At least to me it does ......and yes.. for the most part, people need to mind their own damn business. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I love your positive takes on things.
I'm the opposite. I wanna put a TS in front of EVERYTHING! I've been boosting hi-gain amps for so frigging long I it just feels natural to have TS type OD no matter what amp or style of music
It's a matter of pickups and tuning. If you tune down to A or B on a les Paul junior like Bill Steer, then yeah you probably gonna need. But if you tuned to Eflat/D then not really. Ritchie Faulkner has no overdrive on his board because he got EMGs and tuned much higher, so he has mids out of his ass already, adding an OD to that would only make it sound very brittle.
I personally don’t care all that much. I judge an amp on its unboosted sound because I want to hear the amps core character, if it sounds “better” with a boost ok. It doesn’t matter to me how I get the sound I want as long as I can get it. To me it’s like taco’s, if all the ingredients are awesome I’m still gonna want hot sauce! I could season my taco with all the same spice in the sauce but I’d rather have the sauce! Or it’s like French fry’s I like ketchup but I don’t want it on every fry. I don’t order my fry’s with ketchup on them, I like to season them myself. Do really good fry’s NEED ketchup? No, but I like to have the option. I’ve never seen anyone walk out of a venue because the guitar player was using an overdrive. I play guitar because I like music not because I’m demoing gear. I would no more argue that someone shouldn’t have to use an overdrive than I would whether they should put ketchup or anything else on their food! It’s your food do what you want! Arguing about how someone gets their tone is virtue signaling imho.
I don’t quite get the entire argument. If you’re playing and then at some point you want more gain with out having to turn the gain knob all you need to do is step on a pedal button. What’s the issue?
I absutwly love overdrive pedals for many reasons. However, I almost never use them. Its nice e to have a couple for exceptions when recording or even just jamming alone. But as I have a big boy EVH 5150, I find little reason to h Use them. But I must put it out there that I do like the blue channel boosted more than I like the red channel but most listeners can't tell the difference so why even waste my time and pedal board space on something the audience can't hear?! But that still does not take away from how much I love overdrive!
Isn't boosting like gain staging. Your just conditioning the signal going into the amp so to low shelf off some low end so the amp isn't dealing with amplifying a load of low end that will be filtered out in the mix. Some tones are better when more wide open (no boost) but I personally dial in the best tone possible from the mic and cab, then the amp tone stack and if needs be a boost. 8/10 times there will be a boost. Blows my mind that people get triggered about this. Boost, od, eq pedals are a permanent feature of guitar culture not just in metal. Joe bonamassa and Robin ford have pedals in front of their hyper expensive bumbell's. If its ok for them I think should be ok for high gain amps
I didn’t start using overdrive pedals till about 4 years ago. I thought that the amp was “God”. If you have a killer amp, why would you need a pedal? I got inspired by Ola and his love of Rectifiers boosted with a Tube Screamer. I slapped an OD in front of my generic, hi-gain 6505, and goddamn if it didn’t just bring it to life. Now I hate the idea of jamming without a good OD of some sort. ODs are a great medium for tone sculpting.
My Uberschalls are all boosted with an 805. With the OD, I can keep the amp gain low and keep things tight and articulate. These amps don’t need more gain, just a push.
I play in a Pop-Punk band and I ALWAYS run my Maxon OD808 in front of my Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier. Tightens everything up and just gives a tiny extra bit of bite and sustain. I have the gain all the way down on my Maxon with the volume on it all the way up. It's got nothing to do with gain and everything to do with sound. Awesome video Kyle! 🤘🏻🤘🏻
I'd say yes they do ...so you can go from pretty clean...to overdriven....to then hitting the overdrive for extra gain and sustain...as this then adds thickness...not just more gain.
Great video...as always👍 Of course...please do whatever you want. Used overdrive etc... but some of these amplifiers are $3000 to $4000 and some even more! ...it just seems like at that price point these amps should need nothing. I am not critical of the players who add overdrives. Please, do whatever you like! 🙂 However, You would think that for that kind of money manufacturers would address this. It would be super easy to build this into any of these amplifiers. It's all good...and I love overdrives too but I get frustrated with manufacturers that charge so much and I still need to buy something else to make it sound right...does that make sense?
If more guitar players understood eq and compression better less people would have less extreme views on amp settings and pedals. Run a compressor with and without a side chain filter and listen to the difference. That’s pretty much what an overdrive is doing if you’re not using the gain. Low end uses more energy and will clip sooner/longer. Adding a boost in front will remove that energy but raises the point where the amp will distort. so if you want the -same level- of distortion you need to boost the signal after that eq filter is applied to restore the level of gain you had. OR don’t use an OD. go ahead. Depends on what you’re going for.
it's not persay about the gain. It's adding certain things. Compression and gives you like a high pas/low pas filter. it makes the amp sound tighter. Sometimes you can get away without.
Kerry was even using two boosts before even hitting the cable. The emg's internal preamp and an additional boost on the guitar's mini-toggle. To boost or not to boost,,,,,,there really is no question, but the answer is; Do it when you want to and don't when you don't!
I have had horrible luck boosting my amps in the past. Any way you could do a video of do’s and don’ts and hows for us clueless ones? There are more of us than you think.
Many amps don't need any pedal. But it's a lot of fun to create your own sound stacking them. Also you don't need to feel guilty for not using a feature of the amp. Damn, we don't even need to feel guilty to bear in mind that today maybe we don't need a tube poweramp.
Personally I always use an overdrive as a clean boost. It tightens up the amp and gives it some brightness if that makes sense. But I only set the gain to 5. For me, it’s essential but that’s just me.
I tried recently using a boss blues driver as a boost and it’s awesome! I was getting tired of the mid hump of my Maxon OD-808 which was kind of making my amps sound and feel the same. The blues driver and knarly and squishier while somehow also being tight, it’s cool.
I used to think they all needed over drives. Unfortunately growing up right when the production of metal was getting more intense and polished to an extent, my friends and I assumed plugging into a recto at guitar center would sound like a polished studio record full of chug lol.
This is the internet! You're not allowed to have a different opinion than anyone else. If you do you're wrong and bad and you should feel wrong and bad.
