STOP Doing This When Dialing In METAL Guitar Tones! | Power Amp Saturation Comparison

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10 июн 2022

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Комментарии : 458

@youcantdothisjack 2 года назад

I think people often think the power section rating, with a peavey 5150, 120w, is for the extra power amp distortion, but they are designed to get all the distortion in the preamp stage and boost AS CLEAN as possible. And a lot of those amps came from taking this as a base, cleaning up the power section and add more stages to the preamp for distortion. Your video, I feel, demonstrates that nicely. Cheers!

@girthydoinks 2 года назад

@cajun3197 2 года назад

This is a prime example as well my friend. Some modern metal amps are el34 120w for the clean headroom when in fact it’s not possible to get 120w from 4 el34s they only 25w tubes...cheers!

@JohnWiku 2 года назад

@@cajun3197 it is possible to pull over 150W from a quartet of EL34s. The clean headroom is lower than 25W per tube, but power tubes have the property that it is still possible to get more power out of them, albeit introducing more and more harmonic distortion (up to a certain point). That can be good, or bad, depending on the application (HiFi vs guitar amp used for distortion). That is the reason why it feels that there is a difference in volume for the same power rating for tube vs solid state. Clean power might be the same, but exactly when the solid state circuit runs out of headroom and farts out, the tube starts compressing and still outputs more power!

@BigTyronie Год назад

Correct most old marshalls, plexi era for sure, will put out right around 140w at full song!

@jasoncarlson7867 Год назад

Great demonstration and really gets the point across.

@claytongouin5605 2 года назад

I am always amazing at how little guitarists know about crafting tones. Anything from SET EVERYTHING TO 11 to NO MIDS to ALL THE GAIN. Your videos are a really great way to help high gain players understand how to actually dial in a tone. I think a lot of guitarists don't understand how to make a tone that fits the band mix because most guitarists play at home. At home, a big sound comes from loads of gain, loads of bass, lots of volume, but those are all terrible things to help you cut in the mix. It's a tale as old as time. Guitarists have their 'tone' but their tone is really garbage for a band application and they are unwilling to sacrifice 'their tone' for the benefit of how the band sounds as a whole. Anyways Kyle, great video. I appreciate that you're willing to share all this cool gear with us. If I can post one negative thing (and meant in a positive way), you should invest in some acoustic treatment for your video space. Some broadband absorption panels just to help with room reverb/echo when you are talking. I think it would really push your spoken audio quality up even further. Other than that, no complaints on my end. Really cool video.

@ClaimedEagle Год назад

I have two tones. One that I use mostly for playing alone with no backing tracks and another one that barely has bass and controlled mids that I use for recording and live applications, it isn't pleasant alone but once in the mix it sounds amazing

@Ottophil Год назад

Before the internet we didnt know. We just guessed

@cajun3197 2 года назад

This was a great point. Cranked power amp tones are what I would consider more vintage rock tone. Modern metal tones involve a clean power amp. Like some of the diesels and people modding bogners and such for kt88. As if you’re going to saturate a 200w tube power section. That old harmonic distortion vs transient distortion, power amp compression vs preamp gain and so on and so forth. 🤘🏽

@deadtolove 2 года назад

So is this why modern metal all sounds exactly the same?

@cajun3197 2 года назад

@@deadtolove it doesn’t. Plenty of modern metal I don’t like

@cajun3197 2 года назад

@REVOLUTION TV I’ve heard people using pa power amps with line 6 helix and such into a cab to play live with great sounds and no tube maintenance as well.

@deadtolove 2 года назад

@@cajun3197 The guitars all seem to sound the same. I'm not talking about esoteric differences in playing styles or what have you, I'm talking about tone. Damn near every metal album has the same guitar tone as the next. Everyone is using the same four or five amps with the same four or five OD pedals in front of them.

@cajun3197 2 года назад

@@deadtolove 🤷🏽‍♂️ don’t listen to it

@Boogieplex 2 года назад

Im one of those older guys(50 yrs) and I agree 💯 % with your experience. Hopefully you helped educate others. That said, there is a sweet spot on amps where the speakers interact with the power/pre tubes, but that spot is usually before the speakers breakup or the power tubes saturate. When you hit the right spot, you know it.Everything just works in unison to create crunch,thump,clarity and sustain.

@ABHORRANCE831 2 года назад

Exactly. Too cranked, it's a mess. Not cranked enough and it sounds anemic. The sweet spot is being just loud enough to get controlled feedback when playing in the room with the amp.

@Boogieplex 2 года назад

@@ABHORRANCE831 I would concur with the controlled feedback comment. You want a sustained note to bloom into musical feedback. That usually does not happen if you don’t have proper volume. But i also agree with the anemic comment,with volume comes a great many musical nuances. It all just comes down to experience and knowing your equipment.

@salahbaker4089 2 года назад

Kyle, who gets overly animated about replies. Seems to not understand the history what we did amps to the way we did.

@Slidezy Год назад

Yup, its like 10-12 o'clock on most amps. Some engage well at 9 but I've found most sound best around there. Below that some amps are thin, above that you damage your tubes.

@BigTyronie Год назад

@@Boogieplex when i hit a chord and it blooms and then it winds up sounding like im strangling a high spirited woman at the end via notes starting to feedback, thats guitar tone nirvana.

@sonictemple2925 2 года назад

The reason they pushed the amp so hard back in the day is because they didn’t have a ton of options for distortion or what we consider modern gain. Yeah they had fuzz and Rat but nobody was really using them like we do now. I think a lot of modern players are so used to 3 or even more channels that they don’t think about how to use single channel amps. My main amp is a single channel master volume amp. I run mine to the point of slightly dirty clean and do everything else with pedals. When we play with hardcore bands they are surprised my amp is just a loud clean amp. I can make my amp sound like anything I want it to sound like.

@eyeshredbmx 2 года назад

Great video and great tone! These amps are fun and versatile. Personally, I enjoy how well these amps take boost and overdrive pedals. It’s fun to try different things.

@DontWorryImAPilot 2 года назад

Just worked with this sort of concept the other day! It's something I've experienced a hundred times but it's always good to be reminded! An artist I'm mixing/mastering for wanted something reamped. My Single Rec into a Mesa 2x12 was the right tone so I went that way. Cranking the volumes made it mushy. Interestingly, the different volumes - channel and master - made them mushy in two different flavors. I was able to push one (the channel volume, if I remember correctly) to give a thin-ish DI a little more weight in the low mids while backing off the other volume to retain the clarity. ...I ended up reamping a lead guitar line, too. I used my Egnater Rebel for that. For whatever reason, that little amp LOVES to be cranked if you're playing higher notes. The power tubes/transformer help the notes bloom, compress, and sustain without having to drown the notes in gain. Good video! Hopefully this helps guitarists understand why I'm turning their master volume down a bit in the studio and help them understand my requests for that sort of thing live!

@AndyK.23 2 года назад

I can't believe how epic a stock JMP 2203 can sound with JUST those two pedals (and the master below 12:00)! Well done Kyle!

@ordohereticus3427 2 года назад

The classic stock Marshalls have excellent voicing and simply need a fairly inexpensive boost and EQ solution to pull off a crushing metal tone.

@rickycompton2610 2 года назад

Definitely one of your best videos Kyle. For me I just front end my 2203 with an SD1 or a Ts9 cranking up the preamp isn’t the tone for me either. This was a great explanation of how to get that modern metal tone out of a Marshall.

@belligerentamateur 2 года назад

Thanks Ricky!

@slayabouts 2 года назад

@@belligerentamateur hey man someone replied to a comment of mine saying i’ve won some contest and to contact them. Looks like they made their account soakedintormentx. Same thing happened to Glenn Fricker, might need to let your subscribers know there’s people trying to scam them

@12_AX_7 Год назад

The first tube amp I ever owned (and still use) is a vertical input JCM800 2203 from '82 that my dad found in a factory he worked at. It's early enough in the JCM800 era that is still has the same circuit as the late 70's 2203 JMP's. I've never needed to take the master volume anywhere near saturation levels for a decent sound.

@travispierce76 Год назад

I agree with everything you said in this video. Ever since I dove into learning ins and out deeper into playing guitars. I have personally found that I get a better modern tone with greater depth and thickness in my tone with a lower master volume. Love your videos by the way. Keep it up.

@seanfolk7133 Год назад

I always take this approach with my band: get my tone to sound amazing to me, then thin it out just a bit. Bass heavy tones sound amazing when you're playing by yourself, but you will immediately get lost in a band scenario. Rehearsal, show, studio, thin your tone out once you're happy with it and you can A) have it louder in the mix, because with fewer low frequencies your overall level will be lower B) have a tighter tone, which is exactly what you want for fast and powerful music and C) you don't get lost in the mix. We have to remember there is a bass guitar, a guitar, maybe two, a drummer and a singer in a typical heavy metal band. You have to fit in that spectrum, you are not the whole band. We as guitar players don't need to play the frequency part of both guitar and bass, let them have the low end, and your band will sound way, way bigger.

@craigbromiley7837 Год назад

Thank you for mentioning the pickup. It doesn't matter how you get to your tone. It's just fun to get there. One day something works and then the next day your ears change or the humidity changes and things don't sound the same. Always searching for tone.

@belligerentamateur Год назад

Agreed!

@jeremynewgent9288 2 года назад

Like you said, all the guitarists we love that played modern(ish) metal past the mid 80's used an sd1 or had their amp modded...or both. High output pickups and/or or the 10 band. They are amazing sounding amps for classic tones with nothing up front ..but even the classic hard rock players use an sd1 or tube screamer. Its a fact.

@allengoeddey2719 2 года назад

Nice video, thanks. I appreciate what you said in the last few minutes as well. We are all chasing our tone. Everyone’s tone is different (thankfully) and absolutely subjective. I am “older”, and even though the tones you were going for aren’t to my personal taste, I enjoyed this video. Seeing you set up the amp, and how you adjusted it to get your tone, gave me some ideas. I am a lifelong Marshall owner, so I’m anxious to try some different stuff. Thanks again!

@MichaelDespairs 2 года назад

Which Marshall do you have and how high do you ideally set the master volume?

@belligerentamateur 2 года назад

Glad to hear it, Allen!

@DreidMusicalX 11 месяцев назад

A little trick if you have no attenuator. Get a cheap pre amp pedal like a MOOER series preamp pedal that I use. You can use the preamp pedals volume to bring down your amps volume to bedroom levels while still cranking your amphead. Its also can help color your tone depending on the model you get which is pretty cool. I have the Mooer 012 Gold. You can pick these pedals up new for about $85 - $100US. Put the pedal in your effect loop in the beginning of the chain as much as possible if you can but after your EQ pedal or a Mooer Cab Pedal if you use one like I do. You can achieve some serious killer sound using all 3 of these pedals. Myself I use in order, BOSS GE7, Mooer Radar Cab Pedal, Mooer012, then my delays, reverb, Boost pedals etc... Right through my Marshall DSL100 and it kicks ass! But I also kick the front of the amp driving it harder with an OD pedal, or tighten more with a compressor pedal in front of map chain. If you have not tried this, do it. You will thank me for saving your ears and you will be able to take a 100watt / 50 watt amp on stage easily and sound great with a few tweaks for live with your EQ. I was also able to downsize nicely from my 4X12 to a 2X12 Marshall Cabinet with a V30 and a Creamback H. But I am more of an 80's player than Metal player of todays music. But it will still work.

@Eliphas_Elric 2 года назад

Also, that last tone with the pedals on and the power section pushed into distortion was frankly the best tone in the video.

@TheCyberMantis 2 года назад

What you said is true. You don't need to crank the power section. Every Marshall amp needs 2 things: A Boss SD-1, and an EQ pedal. With those two things, you can play metal with your Marshall.

@almostliterally593 Год назад

Swap SD-1 wiþ MXR Diſtortion+ Randy Rhoads ſtyle tone.

@timbuk1126 8 месяцев назад

Boss SD-1 and MXR 10 band eq

@TheCyberMantis 8 месяцев назад

@@timbuk1126 Perfect. If the amp is noisy, add a Fortin mini ZuuL.

@riffsnoleads 2 года назад

I played a small dive bar a couple months ago that only had a vocal pa and I brought a 100 watt Plexi with a full stack. played it on 8 for our whole set. it was stupid loud. no one yelled at me. I love dives.

@wctownsend Год назад

Kyle is the man. Great video and I couldn't agree more. I had a TS9 for years and was never happy with it, but back then I never knew to use it as a boost like this. I know now, but wish I had then. Now my 808 is messed up and I need to get it fixed.

@CharlesWillisBonsai Год назад

I think one thing people miss is that it's not just the output tubes distorting, but the phase inverter that's between the EQ and power tubes. Once amps moved the master volumes to post phase inverter it lead to amps that sounded good at bedroom levels.

@obdmpod Год назад

thanks for all these awesome breakdowns. very informative

@ghostinthetreeline 2 года назад

15:28 in gets great sounding. The drop C tuning takes good advantage of the gain/tone you had dialed in. And you know I love them Hatebreed style riffs. As always, excellent content and production. Thanks Kyle.

@belligerentamateur 2 года назад

Thank YOU!

@judgeshred66 2 года назад

See I really liked the sound you got at the end with master cranked and the pedals engaged. That’s pretty much what I do though the master isn’t quite as high. I have mine “on the edge” so when I dig in it hits the power tubes but not for the majority. I agree that the blanket statement of “it’s gotta be cranked” is wrong. It definitely depends on the style and indeed the amp. EG I have a couple of Marshall’s, the silver jubilee doesn’t need cranking in my opinion - sounds great as it is. The DSL on the other hand needs hurting. You can tell Marshall EQd it with power amp in mind as it’s way too thin. Great vid! Will check out your other Marshall vids now.

@LookingForEntertainment112 2 года назад

Stoked to see an EQ pedal make an appearance. Great thrash tones at the end of the video!

@belligerentamateur 2 года назад

thank you my man

@eranfalek 2 года назад

I set my jcm800 very similar. But I add the extra gain using the gain knob on the overdrive. I prefer the EQ in the loop. Each player learns to get his tone slightly different. It's a good thing.

@truescotsman4103 11 месяцев назад

I've had a '77 50w 2204 Marshall since 1991. When I discovered guitar playing I didn't understand tone or any of it. I had my head modified with a tube-buffered fx loop but the rest of the amp has been kept completely stock. I discovered the tube screamer a few years later and it was on. I soon discovered that I had the best guitar tone I had ever heard. I bought rack effects for the loop and more pedals and the rig became a monster. I still have that head and it still sounds better than any amp I own and I have a few Friedmans. It's interesting to watch this amp surface as a "holy grail" amp of sorts. Metallica uses an old JMP 2204 for much of their recording you can see it in videos of their studio. These master volume Marshalls are the sweetest sounding amps ever made. The master volume vibe is a bit more gainy and compressed than the plexi while the plexi is much louder, clean, and more open sounding. For Marshall your "sweet spot" is about 6 for gain and volume. That's where the frequencies come through and the poweramp saturates properly and you get that harsh Marshall bite in the top end.

@moparbryan 2 года назад

I totally agree with your point. I think part of this argument came from a couple things like obviously the Plexi which doesn’t have a MV and the jcm which you do need to get the volume up to overcome the harsh brittle bright cap. That said nothing sounds better than an amp really moving some air and imho there is something pleasing that happens with Marshall’s when the transformer and speakers are working together but it’s not a thrash metal tight sound, definitely 70’s 80’s hard rock sound.

@MrWillco007 2 года назад

Hey Kyle, well done young man! As a youngster trying to 'make it' in Australia, playing in an original 80's hair metal band, I cranked my master volume to 10 on my JCM800, with an MXR Distortion+ as the boost. However, having 'matured' into a modern metal player, I agree with your outcomes related to the tone and the sound you achieved was excellent. Also, there are indeed great IR's, cheers 😎

@reneemonroe4536 Год назад

I’ve tried attenuated cranked master techniques.Anything past 6 on my 1987x gags the amp plus for me I get a better tone without the attenuator and using SD1 and BE overdrive into the low input for plexi and same using clean channel on my DSL100.Neunabar Iconoclast is my secret weapon for recording and playing live.

@lushkordz6643 2 года назад

im not playing extreme high gain stuffs but i use the same trick to get good Jazz Fusion tones (both 4 Clean & OD/Lead) !!! by stacking 2 tube preamps (Brunetti Overtone2 + Bogner Alchemist tube head preamp) with specific tubes' choice in those 2 & a 7 bands EQ in between to refine the tone (as you're doing here in the vid) ++ a Chorus on the Detune side to add some complexity to the tone & a Noise Gate (@ min setting) that add some granularity as well ....i have also an Ibanez Tube Screamer Pro with a dual circuit (OD + Clean Boost) to get even more specific tones combining the circuits in certain ways .....it works superb 🚀

@creatio1 Год назад

Great vid Kyle 😊 BTW - what gauge did you use for the lowest string in drop C? Cheers!

@KPGuitarStudios 2 года назад

Well said. Pick your gear, then learn how to use it, as long as it works it's right 🤘

@DemonKingOFFICIAL Год назад

Crazy how you can see the sag in action with the dimming of the power switch LED when it’s really cranked up. Another cool vid, sir!

@jessebreakspear6656 Год назад

Awesome video! Audio amplification is a pretty technical subject and I 100% agree that you can't make blanket black-and-white statements like "you have to crank it full blast to get the best sound with every amp" I'm not an amp tech but I would say output transformer distortion is a real thing. phase inverter distortion is a final (or near final) stage of un hi pass-filtered distortion and adds a little more flub and compression in the low frequencies and overall clipping. I am not 100% sure how much power tube distortion factors in, but I think it is like a 4x6l6 amp that gives you 120watts is more power tube distorted than a 4 6l6 that only gives you say 90 watts but then negative feedback factors in and probably other stuff so yeah power tube distortion is a complicated thing. but I can say with confidence that speaker distortion is a myth unless you have a post-magnet assembly like an old alnico. but then the dynamic interaction between the speaker and your ears or a mic might cause some kind of distortion? and then there's cabinet rattle so it's no wonder people think speaker distortion is real, but with a ceramic disk magnet assembly the speaker would burn up, blow or the voice coil core might slam against the back of the magnet assembly before it would ever clip or compress the sound. so if you are getting speaker distortion from your vintage 30 you better turn it down because you are damaging it LOL.

@ericv7720 Год назад

I have a 90s Carvin MTS, very Marshall-esque in that the preamp isn't super high gain. I've found that the best tones are around 4 or 5 on the volume with the gain cranked. This is where I push the PI but don't clip the power tubes (6L6-type). I get that creamy saturation without a boost. Beyond 5, I get more mud, and I have to cut bass/mids. Once I get up to 8, the power tubes start to clip, and it sounds bad (very brittle) unless I dial the preamp gain way back, but then I don't have anywhere near the saturation I need for metal. So that's the rule: volume up, gain down or gain up, volume down.

@cmd_f5 2 года назад

Well stated man. I think the main thing is to just use your ears and go from there. Great vid as always Kyle 🔥🤘

@needsLITHIUM 2 года назад

put the MV and preamp gain at 2 o'clock, ride the high and presence controls if you have them, and then still use an OD or boost pedal anyway. Problem solved. Power amp saturation is great - in moderation, especially because EL34 tubes tend to be brighter when not pushed, but get flubby and tubby when they get the juice. 6L6 tubes are the opposite. They lend to darker tones when not pushed so hard, but their breakup character can very quickly get into ice pick overtones and sound really harsh in a way that is by all means very unpleasant. Most amps need a bit of power tube saturation, even modern amps in my opinion, but they still need pedals out front to push the preamp harder to get the right balanced timbre and the big, yet tight and focused, low end.

@FEAROWNAGE 2 года назад

With some amps it sounds great and adds a unique layer of saturation.

@billyarbrough291 2 года назад

Timing is right with this video. Currently looking at 1989 Marshall JCM800 2210. Planning on hitting the front of the amp with a Tube Screamer and run my EQ through the effects loop. Other than this review, any other thoughts?

@andrewrobert5019 5 месяцев назад

First video of yours I’ve seen and I love it. Thanks for the GREAT info. New subscriber

@antonstefanov2146 7 месяцев назад

I agree. There's a really good video of Pat Quilter showing the sine waves of the clipping preamp stages and the clipping of the output section /JCM800/. You don't really need to push the master very hard but for a fuller tone you definitely need a bit of the power section saturation too. Not very much but just enough to interact with the preamp stages.

@freddyleal1756 2 года назад

Cool vid Kyle!! One day sale all those amps and somehow get a Larry Dino head so we can see you demo and here it!!

@krvnavatra2215 2 года назад

I have one of these, too. And I use mine with master volume down even further than you do. I’m sitting mostly at about 9 o’clock. However - and you might laugh, I’ve found using a line 6 HX stomp as my boost works better than anything else I’ve used to boost out front. I’m using the gate, the ‘king of tone’ model OD and much like you did, an eq at the end to remove more bottom end. It’s seriously one of my favourite amps when boosted this way. Strange, but true!

@belligerentamateur 2 года назад

if it sounds good, that's all that matters my dude!

@Ratso_DeLynch 2 года назад

@@belligerentamateur Kyle Bull Hey man! unrelated question and NOT trying to hijack this thread; but I just sent a burning question to your direct fb msg about speakers in a 2x12 cab. I don't like my current g12 65 and g12m 20 watt for rock / hard rock. ^^ I sent you a direct msg on fb message request inbox when you get a chance ?? ^^ I was wondering about combining 1 warehouse reaper 30 with 1 celestion g12H30 together because of your awesome video demoing both. I REALLY want to know if you stuck 1 of each speaker inside 1 2x12 and got amazing results for hard rock - OR if it was shite?? ^ You would save me money and time if it was the latter 😂🤟🏻. I hope you see this message and my fb msg to you. IF you wish to reply over email mine is Adam.martynek@hotmail.com Please help! Any feedback is appreciated man. ^ thanks and keep it up the amp, cabs , pedals etc content coming on your channel. Love to see / hear it. Cheers from Niagara falls Canada enjoy the weekend brother 🤟🏻🤟🏻🙏🏻

@rickcrotts6673 2 года назад

Even EVH aka the power tube destroyer ended up with a signature amp line that relied on preamp gain rather than running the piss out of the power section

@djabthrash 2 года назад

Not the first video on that subject but one of the good ones !

@garyshelly6555 2 года назад

That's exactly how I run my rig, crate blue voodoo or blue doo doo however you want to call it, metal zone out front used as an overdrive not as distortion, MXR 10 band KFK good old boss noise suppressor I'm good. And yeah I'm an old dude real to be exact lol but in my opinion I get some of the best metal tones you'll ever hear even with the blue voodoo.

@jordinc7074 2 года назад

This is where it's at. Really nice demo. Best advice someone gave me is to stop looking at where the dials are POINTING, and use your EAR. Look away, turn to taste.

@justinainsworth6264 9 месяцев назад

The master cranked really sounds great for lead tones which when you think about rhythm to lead sounds volume difference makes perfect sense. Also with Super Leads it was common to run the bass off because of the natural low end both loud resonance and the amp circuit dimed creates which gives a much tighter sound, but definitely not a huge chunky metal sound no doubt about it.

@FreightCarPatterns 2 года назад

That riff at roughly 16 mins in had me searching my tracks. Aha...found it: All Out War "soaked in torment". Good stuff! Cheers from your lake erie neighbors to the north!

@mykneeshurt8393 Год назад

A decibel meter would be cool to see. What volume do you usually play at?

@kotekutalia 8 месяцев назад

It's also worth noting that no tube amp power section is hi-fi, it always distorts the signal by compressing and saturating at some level. If it was not a case we would be using Solid State power amps

@rogerio_guitarist Год назад

Awesome video and great attitude. Congratulations!

@brozio77 11 месяцев назад

i agree with some people that if you turn up the master volume you have to kepp bass pot max on 2. however this video demonstrates that for high gain metal tone it's not necessary saturate power tubes to have a very good sound :)

@superZEROKID 2 года назад

I love that you made a video just for the naysayers 🤘 lol keep up the good work

@robertkornblum4127 2 года назад

I would love to see the same process done on an old recto

@jrlee243 2 года назад

I inherited a marshall jmp 50 mid 70s, marshall bass amp, I think that's the oldest one out of the bunch. Pretty much the same one Lemme used. early Laney 100, and a Gibson PA combo amp. His band used it for vocals. His hay day of live shows had no P.A. system. He cranked everything on the master and the eq. The eq was not much help. It seems all of the tone came from the power section. What you hear is what you get. The cab seems like more of a EQ than actual EQ. Are they better for metal in my opinion. No not at all. When we would play, he would lose his mind if I plugged in an over drive or an EQ pedal. Lol. He passed years ago and he wanted me to have them. I love them and how they sound depending on the type of gig we have, or if I have session work in a studio. My favorite thing is to run a modern amp with one of them. But that's just my experience with these types of amps

@EnvyGraves 2 года назад

i used to love the really muddy, really grindy tone. but now that i've matured more on tones, i love the more crisp, clear and punchy tones without over-saturating the amp too much.

@belligerentamateur 2 года назад

Same!

@EnvyGraves 2 года назад

@@belligerentamateur funny how time changes your overall taste and preference. i love a lot of genres and artists across the entire spectrum, but hearing these sounds and tones just refresh me a lot.

@bumrecordingstudios 2 года назад

This video solves the debate of playing modern amps loud. In a climate where you pretty much can’t any longer… the idea of cranking a 100 watt is dead. Thanks for the video.

@belligerentamateur 2 года назад

Thanks for watching!

@letsgofuckingcrazy Год назад

Grest tips. What is the cab of your IR?

@mountainpeakcloud8442 Год назад

Yup, this is the conclusion a came to not so long ago. I have a 100W Orange Rockerverb, and a Friedman JJ Jr. 20W, and there are always those people telling me I needed to get an attenuator so I could push the power tubes into distortion, so I picked up an attenuator and did just that. I ended up playing it like that for a long time, forgetting what the amps sounded like before, and just recently I decided to remove the attenuator, and which made me significantly lower the volume and remove the power tube distortion, and it was like taking a blanket off of the amp. I got more high mids, more clarity, clearer saturation etc. the amps just sounded better in every way. I've come to realize, as you've noted, that these modern high gain amps really depend upon their pre-amps for the distortion. For a while I couldn't get my head around this, cause in my mind I felt like I was only making use of half the amp if the power tubes weren't cooking too, but this was really more a problem with my perspective, because in reality, the power tubes are still shaping the overall tone of the amp, they're just not distorting... and when I realized this, it really freed me up to keep the volume lower and rely upon pre-amp tube distortion. I think a lot more people either buy into the whole power amp distortion thing for the reasons you mention, and/or because they also feel like they're not getting the most out of their amp, like they're only using half of it, because they're not driving the power section into distortion... but that's just not the case depending on the kind of music you play.

@RobertMastrolembo Год назад

Know you learned this go buy a Kirk wah and really master that tone.😅

@s.w.matteo6679 2 года назад

Kyle wins. I do like a little balancing act between the the pre and post for a little hair. I go for a slightly flubby sound and then force it tighter with my playing. A sludgier thrash tone.

@dominikpohli2381 2 года назад

great video i think this also works good with a ts9

@zandig666 Год назад

Great vid Kyle I've been digging in to getting a wiked tone lately !!!!

@johnjohnstone8506 Год назад

yes. 100% a 5150 has something like 5 gain stages. on my mesa the pre amp is rarely past 6, driving bass into saturated power tubes just makes it muddy. great video. non master plexi baseman's are completely different

@s1wheel4 2 года назад

Kyle is always doing something cool. My favorite channel. Great point!

@belligerentamateur 2 года назад

Appreciate you!

@armandomorenotherevival7827 Год назад

Something to add with old Marshalls, is if you want a tight but punchy in the power section you probably want to use 6550 tubes or KT88’s . There is lil to no breakup compared to El 34’ s

@guitarandmore69 Год назад

Awesome cab, I have one with a Randall V2.

@ltxr9973 Год назад

I think the 2203/2204 sounds great at any volume and I like the transparency it has on lower volume. Cranking the master and turning the preamp to about half is a great, more plexi like tone. Both on 10 is almost too much gain, you wouldn't need a pedal anymore gain wise but there needs to be something that cleans up the low end a little, unless you're playing doom metal. They're brutal if you crank them, especially the 100W. But a open back Twin Reverb would be even more brutal if you were to crank it.

@neverender2308 2 года назад

Sounds identical to the Softube version "in the unison" slot on my UA Apollo I bought for $300 used on offerup. Hope Bushido Code rolls through Jersey sometime soon!!

@andrewdenine1685 Год назад

Whatever floats your boat , it really depends what type pickups single or h.b or p90s (pops rocks ) more headroom without the preamp cranked unless you got a marshall DSL 15H on classic tone lol

@lespaul667 Год назад

I’m a 2204/2203 fanatic, these amps don’t need to be pushed that high to sing, especially high gain with a boost pedal in front. I usually find that both volumes have a huge swing in output from 7 to 10 on the dial that is like Armageddon on steroids. The highest I’ve had them is both preamp and master on 7-8 with EL34’s, and lower on the master with 6550’s. I would dare to say that most 2204’s have more apparent upper midrange gain and tighter low end than most 2203’s. Might be the Drake transformers. This video shows exactly how I use my rig as well. Mid gain amp, boost and roll down for clean. One channel. One love.

@masterchain3335 4 месяца назад

Great video. I've always wondered why, as you say, the accepted dogma of guitar tone is that you need to crank an amp to get it to sound good. I don't even really play modern metal, per se, but I do like a tighter sound regardless of what I'm playing and I don't really like the sound of PA distortion.

@jspacone 2 года назад

I’m an 80s guy, and I was expecting to like the tones of the amp when fully cranked. Maybe it was the EQ settings, but none of those first few tones lit my fire. True, I was just listening on my iPad speakers, but those tones sounded thin and ice picky. The first tone with the OD engaged was really nice, and the 2nd tone with the EQ engaged was crushing, IMO. I fully admit my technique might be lacking, but I find I play much cleaner with slightly less gain than what I really want.

@robertolsen9721 2 года назад

I didn't like the power amp distortion and it wouldn't get me the Dokken BFTA tone that is my 80's preference tone.

@brucehayes3573 11 месяцев назад

I have a Marshall 2205 from the 80’s. Ive seen that you can’t put that hot mood in them. Is that true? And or. Could you do a video with that mood in a 2205? Thanks.

@lewiskeller97 2 года назад

That sounded great, what Impulse Responses were you using?

@belligerentamateur 2 года назад

I was using York Audio Mesa 412 V30 mixed with a York M65 creamback IR, SM57 on both!

@kattycat3502 2 года назад

Nice, Thanks for the info.

@stinger720 2 года назад

I like to play at half or 1 o'clock. the sag in the low end is much clearer than trying to push power section. pull back on the gain to right before it fluffy out but keeps tight.

@belligerentamateur 2 года назад

I have no idea what you just said

@dixonrooster5954 Год назад

Hiya Kyle. Dude, you make some fantastic content. You have a good sense of what's what's and you don't get too hung up on the "small print", which is good cause most folks don't care. He's the part where I contradict myself, here me out. You should invest in a Boss Waza TAE. It IS far better than a torpedo. Reason. It doesn't attenuate, its a load box that reamps your signal. (I'm pretty sure lol). But we all know attenuated amps sound mostly shit when heavily attenuated. Some folks will say you loose the analog thing with the Waza, but guess what, you loose that analog thing when you go into a DAW. Anyway. I used to own a JCM 2000 100w DSL, shitty master volumes. I had a Friedman be100, which had a great MV, and I currently own a 50w Plexi. The boss worked very well with all of them.

@TheKLeifheit13 2 года назад

I'm definitely finding that true master volume Peaveys have a sweet spot right around 4-6 where the treble and presence comes alive and the bass gets punchy. Doesn't seem to have anything to do with overall volume level, moreso just getting the tubes warm enough to wake up and push all the frequencies through. Never really any added saturation. Also, as a whaleshit heavy southern rock guy I enjoy both the tight non-cranked tones and the cranked, flubby tones you get here. Definitely see why you want the tighter tone for your music though.

@kameel68 Год назад

Have you tried out the Marshall DSL15H or DSL15C?

@352daves9 2 года назад

Seconded on the Hot Mod. I use one in my JJ jr. It sounds awesome!

@partoon Год назад

I have rediscovered my old marshall valvestate 8100 and noticed how awesome it sounds with a maxon 808. I was wondering though how you deal with extra overdrive pedals in a live situation boosting your amp distortion? You can't hit the mashall pedal switch to activate amp distortion AND the overdrive at once? Is there a way around this?

@KidNato 2 года назад

A cranked power section also leads to speaker compression / distortion, which is also a NO NO for modern high gain.

@belligerentamateur 2 года назад

exactly

@CameronForrester Год назад

I remember getting an attenuator to get more out of my JCM 2000, and I could not notice any difference.

@eyedunno8462 7 месяцев назад

The Phase Invertor cap on most Marshalls and stock 800s is pretty unecessarily large .022uf, lots of 4 and 5 stage gain amps will use a .0022 or .0047 here to tighten things up, then use the Resonance through the Negative Feedback to regain some low emd thump, but is much clearer. Changing that even to a .0068 would allow you to push the power amp section much further before flubs creeps in, honestly still sounds like a classic Marshall just some fat trimmed out

@evanwilt9817 6 месяцев назад

This is quality stuff man. Nice job

@danielsaturnino5715 2 года назад

Check out the power botton light when you have the amp crancked :) its in pain. Some people call it sag. I dont think it likes it.

@XXTROB 2 года назад

Loved that, “if you like your tone you’re doing it right” 🤘🏼also the amp sounded great with the eq and the SD1

@tnglator 2 года назад

Quickrod or 2203 boosted for metal Kyle?

@manos6426 2 года назад

Could you try with the mud killer also, A short video or something?

@Airtrooper719 Год назад

Thank you for the EQ trick, I must try this

@curtisprice9806 8 месяцев назад

Love your video and your channel! You are a very cool and hilarious guy! Output transformer saturation is what you meant...nobody talks about power transformer saturation. Yes, an output transformer is the heart and soul of an amp. My experience is a cranked 100 watt Marshall Superlead sounds too muddy, mid-range "y", and not very articulate...very blurred. Just what you said. It is because the output transformer is distorting! Halfway cranked using a post phase inverter master volume installed on model 1959 and 1987 sounds best. The output transformer is adding its pleasing tone, the output power tubes also are adding some harmonic "color", and the speakers are moving some serious air! A stack not cranked sounds thin, fizzy, and the speakers aren't even moving back n forth...awful. Just like you said again...experiment and find what you like and what your amp can do!