Overrated Doctor Who Stories #3 

Remembrance and The Doctor Falls are too good to ever be overrated

A lot of my enjoyment of The Doctor Falls comes simply from relief that Moffat didn't screw it up as badly as virtually every other two-parter conclusion he's ever written as show-runner.

If the two Masters copped off would it be Master bation ...

Im sorry, but Remembrance of the Daleks is a masterpiece in my eyes. This is one of the few times that I love all the supporting characters in a Doctor Who story. Davros' reveal in Part 4 was really well done and I really, really loved the transition from comical Doctor to dark and mysterious Doctor. I really need to catch up on Season 26.

I'm not sure the Doctor falls should be on here Throughout Doctor who history the most recent stories are always beloved and after 2-3 years time they become treated like the rest of the series I just think we should wait a few years to consider any story underrated or overrated

I respectfully disagree with you on the Doctor Falls. It's not perfect, I'll admit. World Enough and Time was better. But the Doctor stay, fighting the cybermen, giving his own life just so children MIGHT live reminded me a lot of Caves of Androzani, an impossible situation where the Doctor cannot win. The best he can do is to buy them time at the cost of his own life. But he still tries, 'because it's kind'. That to me is what I always want to see in the Doctor, simple heroism. But I get why you don't like it and your honesty gets a like from me.

I think the reason Remembrance is so popular is because it is fun and filled with good moments. I always loved the full size spaceship landing. Very ambitious! On the flip side, Resurrection is dark, gloomy and not much fun at all. Revelation occupies the middle ground and I think that is why it is my favourite of the three.

To me, The Day of the Doctor. Honest, I think that it treats Tennant quite badly, having him seem a bit useless compared to Smith and Hurt. It also brought Gallifrey back, which I'm still not pleased about.

I completely disagree about Stolen Earth/Journeys End. It's one of my favourite finale's however I respect your opinion.

Agree totally on The Doctor Falls,fucking awful.

WE HAVE THE SAME DESK!!! IKEA FOR THE WIN

Journey's End... so much happened I didn't realize the Doctor had spent a regeneration. :P

Remembrance of the Daleks deserves all the praise it gets for the Unlimited Rice Pudding line alone.

Horror of Fang Rock is memorable for Leela's awesome line: "Do as the Doctor says or I shall cut out your heart!"

Shit, you're correct about the death count. Resurrection had 53 deaths, 21 in the first episode alone, and the Terminator has 45. Finding this out, I also found out that Tom Bakers doctor smashes in through a window, punches someone in the stomach, then proceeds to smash his head into a fireplace and pummel him with a chair. I just found that brutally funny that's all.

as for new who 4 finale, I truly believe it is underrated, no one talks about it. Any Dalek story feels like a side story when it includes Davros, but the stolen earth/journeys end was Iconic to me .

The only bit I liked in the doctor falls is the doctor refusing to regenrate scene. "I will not change" is a brilliant line and Capildi just made it even better.

"The Stolen Earth/Journey's End" could have been a three parter, and it might have been better. That being said I was impressed with Julian Bleach's Davros. And Donna's exit is heart-wrenching, and it just feels so... unfair. I've not seen any of Series 10, but your review of "The Doctor Falls" has not encouraged me, I have to say. Personally I love "Remembrance of the Daleks", but I can see why it might be considered overrated. I'll stand by it being my favourite Dalek stories, alongside "The Daleks' Master Plan" and "Genesis of the Daleks". I've not yet seen the other two 80s Dalek stories, but I'm quickly approaching them... just began Season 14 in my marathon! "Horror of Fang Rock"... I saw it once, and I don't remember much of it. My favourite moment that I remember is Leela rolling her eyes at the woman who keeps freaking out at the concept of death. Quality stuff there.

Great video and choices as always! I'm so happy you said The Doctor Falls as I feel it is a bit boring and isnt that good as world enough and time, was a bit of a letdown but not as bad as Hell Bent (obviously!). Also, even though I quite like Remembrance, I see your points and I'm glad that you enjoy Revelation as I personally love it and think it's a great underrated Colin Baker story :) still yet to see Resurrection tho

I wonder if the series 4 final would have worked better if it worked like the original Doctor Who episodes, also what's your opinion on Husbands of River Song

Another excellent video Wingy, can't agree with Horror of Fang Rock ,being overrated, four very enjoyable episodes.

The Tomb of the Cybermen The Dæmons Planet of the Spiders City of Death Revelation of the Daleks Army of Ghosts & Doomsday Face the Raven

Yo wingy, since you seem to have seen a lot of the classic series, have you considered doing rankings of your favourite stories from each doctor, so like top 5 first doctor stories, top 5 second doctor stories etc? A lot of doctor who channels have done this and it's interesting to see how everyone's list differs :) and keep up the good work, mate!

Remembrance of the Daleks is brilliant.

One story I think is overhyped is a Second Doctor story. The Tomb of the Cybermen. There's a lot of good ideas there. And there's some good scenes (like that scene with the Doctor and Victoria), but the plot progresses slowly. Some of the new characters aren't developed enough, they all feel like horror movie stock characters just supposed to be there to die. The Tenth Planet Cybermen (and the series 10 Cybermen because they're the same Cybermen) are my favorite designs, and I like the 80s Cybermen, and even the New Who Cybermen are okay. But, forgive me (because I know you like the Cybermen), the Troughton-era Cybermen are the absolute worst in terms of design and voice.

Revelation of the Daleks is my favourite dalek story of all time.

Hey Wingy I am huge fan and love all your work. Just wanted to ask, what do you think of the stories The Seeds of Death and The Mind of Evil? I personally see them as underrated stories and are some of my favourites. Just wanted to know, keep the great work!

I think series 9 and 10 are overrated I just can’t see why people love them maybe it’s me but I have been watching dr who for years and watch a lot classic stories

I love the ending of horror of fang rock after the death of the ratan scout the doctor remarks that will teach them like damn dude everyone is dead. And that fucking poem at the end still gives me the chills

I agree with you on “the doctor falls”, but I disagree with you on “journeys end”. I feel like journeys end did the best they could with balancing everything and it all felt extremely epic especially for a television show.

Remembrance and pyramids of mars are my favourite classic stories

Yes finally love it

The end of time is over rated

I agree that the series 4 final was a bit full, but I have to say it is still a joy to watch for me, since I'm a huge fan boy of the Russell era. Edit: and also I don't personally think that revelation compares to rememberance at all, I won't comment on resurrection because I haven't watched it in quite a while.

Day of the Daleks is to me highly over rated. Its a fun story but the Daleks are pasted in and detract from the main thrust of the story.

I’d love to see a dalek story where the daleks are succeeding in just absolutely destroying the world and making life miserable for humanity and almost not worth living and where would the doctor be in this? Well he’d be held captive by the daleks with awful things happening to him (or I guess her) rather than just killing him, they’d have him (or her) chained up, carrying out brutal experiments on her and torturing her, all while on the outside there’s an atmosphere and shots and clips and directing techniques reminiscent of the power of the daleks, along with daleks occasionally dropping lines hinting at the fact that they could easily just kill the doctor dead or just destroy the world instantly, but they’re just dragging it out and making everyone suffer simply for what to the daleks is just dumb fun. These things combined for a new dalek story in the chibnall era would make for a great story and really make them scary, the only issues with it would be 1 it would likely be a rehash of a plot that’s already been done, 2 it would probably get a lot of backlash for how gritty and dark it is, 3 chibnall would never go there, at least I doubt he would anyway, 4 it would be hard to come up with a solution to the whole thing that isn’t just a quick lazy last minute deus ex machina.

Remembrance is a weird one for me. I actually used to really dislike it for a long time but it was one of those stories that I kinda felt I should like because everyone else seemed to rate it so highly, so I would watch it quite often to see if I could warm to it and see what others saw in it but it would never work. Eventually I just accepted that I didn't like this story and didn't watch it for many years. Ironically, When I eventually did get round to watching it again as part of a McCoy era marathon, and was going into it accepting that I wouldn't enjoy it, I found it a lot more enjoyable than I remembered and have actually enjoyed it more and more on every rewatch since.

I CHOCKED ON MY CEREAL WHEN YOU HAD TO CHECK WHAT YOUR LAST CHOICE WAS. WHY WAS IT SO FUNNY

Horror of Fang Rock is flawless. Wonderful low-key tone.

I think the only reason Horror At Fang Rock stuck with me is because it was the first Tom Baker story that I watched.

Horror of Fang Rock was he first Doctor Who story that had me on the edge of my seat and all the cliffhangers were golden. Ya it’s not a stand out story there’s tons of stories in the 4th Doctor era that are technically better but I still love this story as just a small self contained horror story. But ya the Ruton effects aren’t that good like they couldn’t even prop it up all the scenes with it felt tedious but I like that we finally know what a Ruton is and what there powers are

I really enjoyed the doctor falls

I love Horror of Fang Rock, full of atmosphere and great performances...the rest I am fully on board with the idea they are significantly overated.

I've generally been in agreement with you on most of these, but I have to disagree with Horror At Fang Rock. Mostly because Leela is my favourite classic companion, and she's on top form in this one. "Enjoy your death, Rutan! As I enjoyed killing you!" I mean, come on!

Nice United shirt!! What do you think about Alexis signing?

Horror of Fang Rock was the last story I watched and I hardcore *hated* it. The acting was weak, the characters were weak, the only subplot is left unresolved, the cutting is abrupt and annoying and even though people are being killed off, it feels like nothing happens for the entire story. In fact the rutan is my favourite part about this story, purely because I find it hilarious that a little green blob just sits there on the stairs arrogantly ranting about how pathetic the Doctor and co. are and how they're irrelevant because it will kill them and Earth will be destroyed and whatnot and literally doing nothing to back this threat up. The only other good part is Leela. She's absolutely hilarious in this story.

Totally agree about Fang Rock. It's solid enough but I think that whole season of Doctor Who just feels hollow and like something is missing.

I find Rememberance of the Daleks too over the top. Especially the scene where Ace beats up the Dalek with the bat is so cringy

My big problem with Horror of Fang Rock is they never did more with the Rutons given their history with the Sontarans...

Will you be doing an underrated episodes #4

The Stolen Earth / Journeys End - Agree, I find The Stolen Earth to be fine, but certainly nothing special, and Journeys End I actually dislike quite intensely. It's way too over the top and self indulgent. The defeat of the Daleks (Who actually finally felt like a real threat again in Stolen Earth) was also very underwhelming and frankly felt lazy. It also made the Daleks seem more pathetic than ever and I actually don't think they've managed to feel threatening again since. World Enough and Time / The Doctor falls - Agree, World Enough and Time was so promising and made me feel the most excited I'd felt for Doctor Who since the Matt Smith era, but The Doctor Falls was such a let down. What a waste of potential for both The Master(s) and The Cybermen. Bills ending also felt forced and was basically a copy of Clara's ending, They both technically died but were brought back in a different way... Remembrance of The Daleks - Kinda agree, I really do love this Story but It also has some flaws and is tonally inconsistent. I think part of the reason is story is so massively popular is actually more due to the crap that had come before it in the 2 previous Seasons. It was a major return to form for Doctor Who, and on top of that was full of fan service and little nods to the past to celebrate the 25 anniversary year which made people think of the good old days. When you get that after what is largely agreed to be an era of utter crap, it's no surprise that it seemed like a true Masterpiece at the time. The Horror of Fang Rock - Agree, I do really enjoy it and find it to be one of the stronger stories of Season 15, but It does have it's flaws. The villain looks silly and is very underwhelming for the creature that we'd heard about for so long as the race that is powerful enough to go toe (or tentacle) to toe with the Sontarons. It also drags on a little at times.

2:09 Journeys end isn’t 45 minutes it like an hour and 3 minutes.

Journey’s End/Stolen Earth was fine I guess...I liked The Doctor Falls because MONDASIAN CYBERMEN!!! I really like Remembrance it’s probably the 2nd best McCoy story (behind The Curse of Fenric) and I’ve not seen Horror of Fang Rock I’ve heard it’s alright so yeah that’s it

The fact you mentioned the horror of fang rock and never made a joke about the max headroom disappoints me

The end of series 4 is in my top 10 favourite doctor who stories

Tbh I think the series 4 final was great and managed to put a lot in and balance it all very well. I also like doctor falls a lot it was very emotional to me, I hated the happy ending though.

God bless. Wingy. Is. Back. 🙌🏻❤️

Completely disagree with Horror of Fang Rock. It’s a great story, I love the thriller-esque theme and that cliffhanger when the Doctor says he’s locked it in with them (episode 2 or 3) is absolutely amazing!

Great video! I thought I was the only one who thought that series 4 finale journey's end was overrated. no offense to those who like it, of course :) my opinion is a subjective one. when I first saw the finale two-parter, I thought it was epic. then I watched it again, and I thought it was so messy, a lot of characters are in it that don't do much, or they don't come together and amount to a united front, the ending with rose and the human Ten now getting together was the last straw for me with the Rose/Ten having another 'Twilight' moment, davros was not used enough, the way he was defeated/and all the daleks, was contrived and had quite the 'deus ex machina' ending. the two parter was just alot of spectacle that hid the problems that the story had. I agree with doctor falls overall to. I admit that I LOVE remembrance of the daleks and horror of fang rock. but like u said, with classic who, it's slim pickings when it comes to overrated stories, so I understand all ur points. as an American, the only explanation that I can give for why we give a lot of recognition to 'remembrance' is bc it's easiest to access/buy. I love resurrection/revelation and remembrance equally. but revelation is still too expensive to get ahold of, and I got lucky when someone sold their used copy of resurrection. but I love all three, and that's just a theory for why remembrance gets the most love. but I could be wrong.

Your awesome!

Rememance of the Daleks is my favorite episode of all time Journeys end is my favorite season finale

I think that Shada is overrated everyone hypes it up to be this amazing epic and it’s just ok it may have been due to the overhype but I don’t think everyone would love this episode as much if it was completed

I think the very first episode of Dr Who is overrated. But I guess if the bigwigs at the BBC didn't see it that way the show wouldn't have taken off.. and, it did in a sense, when The Doctor flicked the dematerialisation switch ☺

Series 11 overated and hyped.

It also didn't help that Horror of Fang Rock was preceded by Talons of Weng-Chiang.

I’m watching from series 6 and beyond because I gave up with Matt Smith but now that I’m watching them, Matt Smith is really good

I think I need to sit and watch Pyramids of Mars closely. Everybody always raves about it and I have to admit I have never watched it with much attention. I must be missing something.

Another good example was of these finales being worse the the previous would be hell bent. It Was a lot worse than haven sent. A LOT worse. Moffat again...

I kinda agree with stolen earth/journeys end (mainly because of Martha’s plot, the way the Daleks are killed at the end, rose being pointless and making series 2’s ending meaningless) I still enjoy it a lot and I don’t think it’s the worst from series 4. The doctors daughter is definitely the weak link of that series. The Doctor falls is one I disagree with the most. I thought the way the Cybermen & master we’re used was great and I really like the story. Rememberance overshadows the previous 2 Dalek stories because the Daleks fly for the 1st time and was more focused on the Daleks than Davros (who was more of a focus in the other 2) so i think it’s praise is earned. The horror of fang rock, not my favourite tom baker story, but it was an entertaining one, balancing out horror with comedy.

I completely agree with the choices. Series 4 finale frustrates me so much it has potential to work great but like you said it gets bloated and I hate two doctor 10s, doctordonna the worst of companions becoming the ultimate hero. Doomsday end AGAIN I mean FFS couldn't we just wrap that up then, it ends up feeling like the parting of ways and doomsday wrapped into one. The doctor falls main fault to me is they introduce mondas original design and ignore further original designs with the time moving faster on the one end of the ship and bill really should have died as a cyberman would of added a really tragic element to the story and would of made bill a much better companion. Remembrance < revelation not bad but not the best 80s dalek story, you got to love the morbid psychedelic atmosphere of revelation. Horror of fang rock I hated it on first watch don't mind it now I think it's puzzling reputation doesn't help and I agree the rutons could be so interesting if done right.

I personnaly love rememberance of the daleks as it was my first McCoy story and watching it for the first time i was like 'WOW' but i respect anyone's opinion and i understand the reasons you find it overrated

Stolen Earth/Journey's End - Yeah, you make good points there. It would've really helped if both of the episodes had at least another 15-20 minutes. The Doctor Falls - I totally agree with everything that you say. I especially wanted to see a Cyberman be a companion and I wanted to see the Masters do something utterly amazing. And yet despite the fact that I was let down by that stuff I still enjoy this episode. Probably because I'm a huge Nardole fan and Nardole really got to shine here. Oh, but the resolution did suck. It sucked baaaaaaaaaaad..... Remembrance of the Daleks - I personally love this story and do think that it's one of McCoy's best and one of the best Dalek stories ever, I wouldn't put it below Revelation. But maybe that's just me. I just think that Revelation had so many interesting ideas and concepts that were barely fleshed out aside from the couple of key moments. And I just overall don't get a good vibe from that story. But, yeah, Resurrection is definitely the best one of these three, no doubt about that. The Horror of Fang Rock - I do like this story and its atmosphere, but I also thought that it was a bit underdeveloped. Sadly I can't pin exactly what it is that bugs me about this story, but I do think that it could have been just utterly perfect. Yet something's holding it back... Maybe it is the lack of the Ruthan for the majority of the story. Cause the supporting cast is great and the tension and the atmosphere and the location are all so wonderful... But for some reason I don't feel the consummation and the story leaves a bad aftertaste for me personally. Though in the moment it is such a joy.

I think series 4 is worst series in NuWho. Especially the end which is just confusing and dum. What I'm most thinking of of is the DoctorDonna. Why did Russel have to complicate the Doctor and Donna's relationship in a more sci-fi way. I think that the DoctorDonna is the biggest plothole in Nuwho. 1. They meet the Ood and say to them constant DoctorDonna friends. The Ood take up the word DoctorDonna and use it to them. "DoctorDonna friends". In Journeys end when that stupid MetacrisiswibblywobblytimeywimeydoctordonnaRTDbonkers happened the Doctor says, "just like the Ood said the DoctorDonna". I mean, I can't be the only one who's being annoyed by this?

I'm not sure that The Stolen Earth/Journey's End is over-rated, because I didn't think it was all that highly regarded to start with. Maybe I'm just remembering the reaction to it incorrectly. I'd agree that The Doctor Falls isn't as good as World Enough and Time, but that's typical of NuWho 2-parters. It's probably a bit over-rated, but I still think it's good. I haven't seen Remembrance of the Daleks, and I haven't seen The Horror of Fang Rock since the 1970s, so I can't really judge/comment on them.

The Horror of Fang Rock is a simple creepy classic.....and has a lot to say about British class in society.

Completely 100% disagree with your views on stolen earth/journey's end just because you have a ton of content in a story doesn't instantly make it convoluted, just look at infinity war! In doomsday, they had daleks, the cybermen and the parallel earth crew and that was not paced well, I can't explain it but I can't ever get fully invested in that episode because there's too much going on that doesn't really feed into each other however the series 4 finale has even more stuff but somehow is paced perfectly. Pacing in tv/movies is a bit of an abstract idea as everyone defines it differently, I say it revolves around how each character's actions progress the story and how every idea and character feeds into each other, somehow every element in the series 4 finale fits together and I don't think that's just down to opinion, take for example the scene where Harriet Jones contacts everyone with the subwave network. We get Captain Jack being put in his place, the recurring joke of "we know who you are", basically a teaser for the Sarah Jane adventures with the line about the slitheen, the relief of Martha being alive, Rose asking who Martha is when it's been established she would know the other 3 people in the call, an explanation of where Martha is and then an in-depth discussion about what they'll do to contact the doctor with honestly very few flaws in their plan and we got all that in 1 scene. Moments like that happen all throughout the 2 parter and that's why the episode is objectively very good.

100% agree with you on 'Remembrance of the Daleks'

Couldn’t disagree more about The Horror of Fang Rock. One of my all time faves.

Generally agree. Too much in Journey's End. HATED that goofy bit where all the companions are piloting the TARDIS & it's all gooey. The bit where Davros says the Doctor turns people into weapons & the Doctor just looks gloomy & convicted is wrong. The Doctor should have stood up to him & said it's because of evil people like you that these nice people become warriors. The Doctor Falls is just all around crap.

7:24 is funny because it's not true.

Journeys end has nostalgia so i like it Doctor falls i really like but its no where near as good as world enough and time, Remembarnce of the daleks is my favourite dalek story fang rock is brilliant

I wholeheartedly agree on Stolen Earth/Journey's End. Bleach is fantastic but there is too much going on and I never liked having the Metacrisis Doctor or whatever he's called. I have, however, always wondered if anything happened to him when Ten eventually regenerated. Imagine if Rose woke up one morning and she was laid next to Matt Smith.

I thought the routons would look better considering they were in a war with the sontarons

"Remembrance..." is pretty much flawless. Watched it yesterday for, like, the 20th time. Can't get enough of Ace beating the shit out of a dalek with a baseball bat. Also, "Horror Of Fang Rock" is worth it just to see Leela slapping a woman.

I love Revelation but Resurrection is even hated by Eric Saward (the writer)

The doctor falls gets lot of hate but I really like it Part one was amazing I do think part 2 keeps it going but I do see why it gets hate but you know it’s Moffat!

I agree that the Horror of Fang Rock is over-rated. It’s a standard story of its era, nothing outstanding.

Finally, someone else who doesn’t think Rememberance is all that good. Much prefer Revelation and Ressurection.

What I like about your channel is even when I disagree with, I don't feel very bothered by you. You are not lecturing us on what's good/bad in DW, you're just chatting about it. To many review sites are just overflowing with rage to the point that you don't feel they like the thing they are reviewing.

Ace kills a dalek with a bat, that alone makes remembrance brilliant.

Like the Fourth Doctor cardboard cut out.

I love Stolen Earth...until Donna's brain cleanse. Yes, it's powerful. But The Doctor has always left the people who travel with him better. For Donna we get...the nasty and petty person she was in Runaway Bride. But agree if it was two 90 minute shows instead of two hour ones. The Doctor Falls is just...yuck. The whole Series 10 is yuck. Not Billie's fault, or Capaldi's. It's Moffat again (the 50th being his one great show). Remembrance is okay. I'll watch it if someone tosses it on, but won't seek it out (like I do with Genesis of the Daleks). Your right about the order of 80s Dalek episodes. But I love Fang Rock, even though everyone dies. My 3rd fav Leela story. But I guess I don't run out and watch it either. Go United!

prntscr.com/i7ticr Top 10 underrated Twitter pop-ups (not making fun of your design skills, but it's a tad hard to read...)

Sorry I have to disagree you without Horror Of Fang Rock and Remembrance Of The Daleks I wouldn't even know what classic Doctor Who was or how it came about?

Agree with the first three. Love Fang Rock though. It’s so bleak. Everyone except The Doctor and Leela dies. That never happened before or since.

You should review Shalka

Personally I think remembrance of the daleks is possible the greatest story from the 80s and completed the best doctor who dalek storyline

I Love Stolen Earth/Journeys End But Feel Like There should of Been another Part

Can you do a top ten tom Baker stories

Remembrance isn't the best Dalek story (in comparison to Invasion of Earth, Power, Evil, Day and Genesis) but it is definetely better than Resurrection and Revelation.