Overwatch 2 Tiktoks That Challenge What We Know 

The most viewed cinematic of all time also has scatter arrow lmao.

I totally agree with flats reasoning about how hero’s abilities can be parts of their identity, but that shouldn’t make you think they won’t take them away. With the Hanzo cinematic example, reworking his ultimate would definitely get rid of that part of his identity, but that didn’t stop them from taking away scatter arrow even tho that was in the cinematic too. And Flats also mentioned how Kiri’s suzu is a part of her identity gameplay wise, but that doesn’t mean they won’t take that away either. For example, once again, Hanzo’s one shot was taken away when that’s always been his defining feature as a sniper oneshot hero. They took away Cass’s stun when that has been a part of his gameplay identity forever. My point is that it doesn’t matter how important something is to the hero’s identity, if there’s a good reason to change it, they will.

Sombra sets her translocator down for later TP in her cinematic. They have scatter arrow in the hanzo/genji cinematic. They have bastion non movable turret form in his cinematic. Its almost like they can change things from the cinematic.

5:30 "low rate of fire so you're not just Baptiste76" bro just gave me a new nightmare. ☠️

the cinematic argument has to be one of the worst talking points dawg LOL

if we’re talking about character identity, they literally removed the “fighting character in fps” part of doomfist.

i just wish kiriko didnt have two invencibilities on top of a small hitbox and good health for her size maybe tie suzu to the tp in some way so she uses both at once? like a reverse liveweaver grip idk anything so that shes actually punishable

The story about the supports being afk in spawn blaming tank reminds me of how many times I've seen mercy players (and its only ever the mercy players) that will blue beam you for like 5 seconds and when you don't get an instant 5k, will refuse to heal you for the entire round and spam "no" at you Then when you inevitably lose because you can't do your job they blame you for not popping off

bro fuck the cinematic if it sucks for gameplay it sucks for gameplay

using cinematics to justify balance changes is crazy considering half the characters from them have been reworked and no longer have access to moves shown off in them, or even they just had moves made up for the cinematic. remember reaper having grenades in the OW intro cinematic?

You are doing a whataboutism with Kiri Was Hanzo Scatter Arrow in the cinematic and was changed, yes, yes it was

I saw the comments talking about using the cinematics for balancing and thought it was a TikTok, wasn’t expecting a whole tangent by Flats about it lmao

That last TikTok: spitting the most real facts TikTok has ever heard

Kiri's suzu isn't in the cinematic lol just saying

I’m dying at the cinematic argument. Bastion turret form? Hanzo’s scatter? Sombra? Reaper’s shadow step is being changed as well. Who cares what the abilities are in a cinematic😂. Who gives a shit what is and isn’t “lore accurate” in a game that gave up on PVE

Respectfully, you mentioned TP is not a problem on it's own on Kiri and spoke about her identity. Fair point, but then you went on and said it's an issue cos she has a loaded kit. Was that not the point of Noah's TikTok? Still love the vids.

Just gonna go on the cinematic thing and mention a few things: Hanzo's scatter arrow Orisa's pull POTG animation Orisa's drum POTG animation Orisa's entire cinematic holy shit she got changed so much- Bastion's stationary turret form There's undoubtedly more but yeah, the metric for balancing heroes has not, nor should it ever, take CINEMATICS into account. That is just... it's certainly the TakeTM of all time.

flats ignored the guys point of kiri was poorly designed at the start, not that they need to rework her. flats whole point is but her cutscene had tp, but his whole point is one character shouldn't have so many abilities that just solve anything

7:23 >competitive shooter > Character identity >Doom >Hog >Bastion >Torb >Sim I think I've already heard this argument before

Coping for 3 min straight on Kiri - 10:25 "There's a small problem in Overwatch were heroes no longer have weaknesses" she's the definition of a hero without weaknesses like c'mon flats, usually i usually really like and share your takes but you're just coping hard on Kiri.

Btw flats from last week, The Finals has 20k concurrent players every day.

yeah yeah hero identity is all good and fun. But having a fair, balanced and fun game is more important.

Honestly, I think TP is Kiriko's most balanced ability, but it's also the most unnecessary, because she also shares the Wall Climb passive that Genji and Hanzo both possess. The reason she's broken isn't really even any single ability on their own. The real problem is all of the bonus effects they all provide on top of them. Like her cleanse also providing temporary immortality, and her teleport also cleansing any negative status effects (but not positive ones because that wouldn't be fair ):), and her weapon having the highest critical multiplier in the entire game, on top of ome of the most powerful and game-changing ultimates in OW history.

Ok bro this has to be a reupload or something I already watched these some how everytime even tho i havent seen them in stream idk whats going on

dragons cinematic had scatter arrow in it. #justiceforscatterarrow

Not that I think Kiri should have to have LOS but in the cinematic she DID in fact have LOS. She was looking through the peephole of the door, so maybe she can tp through glass and not all walls.

The Kiriko one was definitely done by the guy who voices the Jarl's court wizard in Skyrim

I’d like to balance kiriko teleport like wraith from apex legends, where it has an animation that takes time to do, so that it’s not just a get outta jail free card.

Guy in the TikTok says that Kiriko's weapon is too strong for the character with her kit, Flats, for whatever reason, starts actins like the guy was complaining about teleport. He wasn't, he just mentioned teleport among other thing. Again, he was complaining about the fact that Kiriko's WEAPON is too strong for the character who already can do a lot. She has too much, she doesn't need 2.5X crit modifier

Kiriko's identity doesn't match her gameplay at all. _"Where I come from, the foxes fight back."_ (Among other tough-talking voice lines.) Meanwhile, what does she do in-game? Throw kunai at a distance, then if any enemy gets within 50 meters of her, she wall climbs and/or teleports away. Wow, so tough!

Anyone who says Tank is easy in OW has never faced adversity in their life.

you cannot tell me you care more about hero identity then what is fun to play against, I actually cannot take that point seriously

6:15 That same cinematic also showed Kiriko fist fighting the Hashimotos. Punching, kicking, using her knives as actual knives. If she had an incredibly short range with a fight or flight playstyle it would absolutely be fine for her tp to be the way it is. Instead, she can outsnipe the sniper characters, forcing you to commit to engaging on her, and she can get away scott free. That argument doesn't work.

14:43 Never change Flats!😂

during free trial weekend i played venture nonstop and instalocked in every game, didn't get them only one time, and the other dps only left maybe 10% of the time. it wasn't like every single game people would leave if they didn't get what they wanted, more people leave immediately when the gamemode is flashpoint than on free trial weekend

It's nothing on the level of flaming tanks, but I was playing QP and was playing Winton. The enemy team went Reaper/Torb. After getting focused for about 5 minutes not able to get kills, I had a Genji just type "winston swap". They then proceeded to pop blade, get nano'd, and then instantly died because they tried to win a 1v5. Didn't even get a kill. Ik it's not as toxic as going afk to flame, but I found it funny nonetheless

Let swift step go through walls but remove the self cleanse. Make it like lifeweaver pull. Also a pretty large part of the Sombra cinematic is her translocator that has been changed so i dont think thats a relevant argument for balance changes.

Do you remember when they tested suzu on Moira's Fade in OW1? When Moira finished her ability it had a immortality window of time for her and teamates

we have seen all of these before.... also cinimatics are regullarly wrong sig no longer goes through walls... so the buff was for nothing

I swear we saw these before

In the rein cinematic you could actually kill orisa, scatter arrow exists

The venture complainer obviously has zero friends LOL

I think a very simple and elegant way to nerf Kiri is to lower her health to 200, like Tracer. She can also do basically everything, is hard to kill and has a small hitbox so having a lower than average health pool would make sense.

most unique title yet

so when is reaper gonna shoot bombs, when is hanzo getting his scatter back, and when is genji gonna be able to deflect hanzo's dragons way after the arrow has disappeared, since you know cinematics and all?

That meowing in the beginn of the Video Made me question my sanity

The only two characters who's identities have changed are mercy and sym

Flats did not cook with this one.

Love how you bring up a cinematic with an axed ability in it when trying to say that swift step cant be removed because its in a cinematic and gameplay trailers😂

Comparing Hanzo's ult to one aspect of a single Kiri ability is whack. A comparison between Scatter Arrow and TP would be better. An ability that functionally changed, but is still based on the original concept. It wouldn't even need to be renamed, since it's still just a TP. She only TPs through walls twice in her cinematic anyways, with one of the TPs technically having LOS through the peep hole on the door. Point is, she would still have TP as part of her kit and she would still have the Fox Spirit that guides her, which is more crucial to her identity than the ability to specifically TP through walls. Now removing the Fox Spirit or changing Kitsune rush to do something completely different would be comparable to doing something like changing Hanzo's Ult. All that said, Suzu is definitely the thing I'd look into changing first anyways. I just disagree with the arguments presented against changing TP.

The SF shock doom 1:14 rotate it, it's upside down.

ngl kiri should have 225 hp

7:10 flats did kinda get cooked there. But flats overall point stands.

I’m not saying it would fix anything but they should definitely make tanks MUCH louder. This would instinctually draw focus to where the tanks are positioning. Sensory overload can be a good way to buff the basic presence of these heroes.

No way we’re arguing in favor of an objectively broken ability just because of a cinematic.

Is this a repost?

Who gives a shit about Kiris “identity” the blizzard character developers couldn’t even get her age right (in comparison to hanzo and genji) let alone the fact that hanzo lost his scatter arrow that is arguably even more of his character than Kiri’s tp is.

The Kiriko take was one of the worst I’ve ever seen flats make… Look at Sombra and Hanzo who cared about their identity. Making Kiriko need LOS is a much smaller thematic change than turning Translocator from a set point to a fucking enderpearl.

I hate the leaver penalties A. bc this I don't want to have to deal with these toxic support players that scream at me for "feeding on cd" but now if i leave the game IM THE ONE THAT GETS BANNED and B. bc blizzard is either gonna see that people don't really leave anymore and be all "IT WORKED WE FIXED COMPE- I MEAN QUICK PLAY" or they'll see that people still leave often and be like "well ig we need to make it even more strict"

Flats by ur kiriko explanation about hero identity. Hanzo scatter arrow was his identity too ? Its in the cinematic when he fights genji rmb ? But u prob wont even think about it because u know scatter arrow one shotted tanks back then . So i would argue that hero identity is not more important than fun/balanced to play against . That is such a weak argument bruh.

Ngl, make kiri a 3 shot headshot and she immediately becomes better

Very annoying how no one cares about quick play when it's literally the only thing you can play if you want to play with friends on Xbox when you're on a computer. I would be on comp if I could be.

Yall i actually hard agree that character feel should kinda proceed balance whenever possible obviously there's limitations to this but I also feel like most character Reworks have ended up being a negative for how the character feels I know for me as somebody who is a huge fan of OverWatch 1 Sombra who got a lot of the appeal being the sword of shut down little shit just the way modern somber plays just does not really give me any sort of desire to go back to her. I also feel like a lot of the time you can re balance abilities without fully changing them like for instance with chirico make it so if it's going through walls it just has a severe distance limitation when compared to line of sight that way you can still kind of keep it as a way to get back to your team through walls but it is very limited and she's a lot more easy to take care of if she doesn't have good positioning. But I mean speaking genuinely how many OverWatch reworks is actually made the character feel better for both people who enjoy it and people who play against it maybe like pharah but I mean it didn't really change her, symmetra is weird i would argue she is way less interesting and way more annoying now, orisas is way worse imo. Tbh like Torbjorn is the only significant improvement i can think of with like even bastion being way more boring imo

I would be pretty easy to nerf tp through wall. Just make it so the tp between wall distance is like half. We can rework parts of hero identity. We did it with hanzo. Storm arrow was something really cool people loved about hanzo at launch. The entire richchet aspect was part of hanzos kit as an archer. Yet we removed it for balancing sake because sure, hanzo 1 shots on tanks were annoying af. Then we got it back when they added ricochet to storm arrow. So he still has that part in his kit. Just do some alterations in kiri's kit to make the tp between walls less effective but still there.

That last one I resonate with, because I had a comp game where I was getting shit as tank on Nambani attack, we full pushed and I went 9-0, and they kinda shut up in voice after that

The attitude for quick play should be learning with less stress. Maybe even some silly nonsense. I struggle a bit with the anxiety, and the watching tesmayes die in staggers. So what I yay to do is focus on my pay, even if it's just feeling low my pay was solid.

I exactly got a match yesterday in Suravasa, where I was tank. After the 1st 2 pushes that I tried to Rein and get obliterated by their Pharah and Winston, I change to Dva and try and get the Pharah off. I could barely do anything against their comp that healed, hit shots, and bubble me off my team. But guess what, we had 2 hitscans, one being a S76, from the start. Mofo started saying "Tank diff, gg" when he was 2-3, less than 2k dmg. I ended on 4-6 with almsot 4k dmg, the other dps almost exactly like me, but the S76 POCKETED BY A MERCY ended on 2-5 with barely over 2k dmg. On Suravasa. When we managed to capture a point too. Mate also had the balls to say that they were better than me when I exactly called out and said that they had less elims and dmg, and more deaths than me, as a tank, and he goes "No, but I am better than you". The DPS delusion is so hard, is imposiblle to play sometimes

The only change I would do to Kiri would be to increase the teleport cooldown , other then that Kiri is fine there are other much bigger problem character that need change before she does. Plus I wouldn't say Ana is a balanced support , she is the reason why suzu exists in the first place.

That guy complaining about the hero trials is probably the exact reason why they made lever penalties in general so that they could keep testing out things without having people leave all the time just because they didn't get to test it out for that match sure everyone's experience is different but I hardly had any games where someone just leaves because they didn't get venture

idk if the character identity thing is a valid argument for this. Cause aren't a lot of heroes different from their cinematics now? Mei can't freeze with her gun anymore like she does in her cinematic, its literally how she saves herself. Sombra can't place the translocator somewhere and teleport back to it whenever etc. hanzo's scatter arrows doesnt work the same way they did in the cinematic anymore. Is it really so different to make a change to tp through walls as long as she can still tp?

3:18 I actually had this too, might just be not in high elo

Okay hear me out Flats, 5v5, but the players have their screens off and they all have spectators telling them what to do

Tbh yeah tank sucks but ive had rare moments where a support or dps thanks me for saving them, killing someone or says i did well for how countered i was getting and it fills me with joy and warmth at the end of matches, if its like mid match or nearly the end it just motivates me like hell to cook as much as possible every time before i die.

Hanzo scatter was in the movie

Fixing kiriko would be difficult without breaking her hero fantasy. However, I think making her kunai have fall off damage is a decent place to start.

Maybe we just need a new hero role que where you can que for the hero without difficulty

Nah the venture trial guy has a point, new hero launches could be a lot less disruptive if they just gave them a dedicated queue. Not being able to play dps for a week without 10 minute queues is annoying. Waiting 10 minutes for a 50/50 shot of playing the new hero is annoying. These problems don't have to exist

I think "hype" being a reason to not have hero trials for balance is pretty misguided. Blizzard has been abusing "hype" for games to make money while leaving out multitudes of promised features in them for ages now. Maybe we let them try and actually balance?

nearly lost me with the 4 mins rambling about kiriko

Funny how yhe character identity argument goes out the window when you don’t like the character. Hanzo, YOUR example, lost Scatter and his ability to one shot the average character.

Meanwhile me every support game having to check what the other support picks so I know if I need to go - yea, they picked low burst heal, guess I'm playing Ana to keep the tank up. Ups, looks like they have an Ana as well and we're running a tank that gets obliterated by anti nade, guess I'm living the rest of the game on my tank's shoulders with Kiriko so I can Suzu them and keep them alive so they can actually play the game without dying inside. It ain't much but it's honest work.

What if only dps characters could headshot? Getting headshot by a junkrat would be funnier than getting one shot by a hog

bringing up kiri's cinematic to justify her tp is a bad take. In that case every hero should be like their cinematics. Tracer infinite blink and recall, widow infinite grapple and suspension with grapple and cant be flanked while scoped cause she eyes everywhere, reaper infinite fade ability, rein has pin whenever he wants, doom can punch whenever grab whenever, and block and slam whenever, winston has an infinite jump pack he cause use whenever. they dont have that though despite it being in the cinematics so kiri doesnt need it either. horrible take

You can say that Kiriko can tp to LoS because she was looking through the doorhole in cinematic, the tp back was through door, ok, 1 tp through wall, arguably that doesn't mean anything, I can argue that its her home, she knows it like the back of her hand

Yeah, inflation might have made those bottles of water cost $600 but at least our minimum wage is now 5000 an hour

flats talking about removing the heros identity meanwhile hog got changed bastion got changed sombra SYM???????

People just hate supports having any means of fighting back or surviving

I think Prioritizing FUN over Balance is a bad move. He said "Would Kiriko even be fun if her Teleport needed LoS?". While I do think Fun is important, we can't keep TP the way it is, a free Get out of Jail Free Card is so unbalanced, Sombra's Translocator got reworked because of it, and Kiriko's is inherently better than Translocate. If I had to say a means to rebalance TP, I would just make her Teleport not instantaneous, but she has to charge up for a second then teleport. Mercy's fly to a teammate is so much weaker than TP, Illari bounce is so much weaker, Lifeweaver's air dash is so much weaker, alot of the other support's lack a mobility ability as strong as TP.

I think cinematics are a bad argument because Brig and Reinhardt interlock shields in the overwatch 2 cinematic, I think if they removed tp through walls she would just be way less cool. I love playing kiri in qp and tping to africa because it's fun and it's really cool or on the flipside I dive the widow as Lucio to do a little trolling so kiri tps to me then we beat down the backline and make an escape. That is super fun because it's silly

how i would rework kiri well just a bit. correct if my takes are oof cause not a dev. suzu: would reduce the suzu heal to like 10 hp or heals a % of hp but not to much to make the kiri choose if they want to cleanse early so no debuff early or wait for more heals and the aoe it has cause removing the cleanse well just makes it not suzu anymore and removing the invuln reduce the skill expression. idk just maybe when she cleanse an ult debuff like shatter, rampage, illari mini sun; the suzu removes half of the current duration of it. or has a 50% chance of removing it but if the 50% chance didnt cleanse it, the cooldown be reduce and the next suzu that cleans an ult will gain 100% chance of cleansing. i prefer the reducing cooldowns thing because ik chance in a game like ow2 isnt fun but an idea. kitsune: reduce all the buffs it gives by like 10%. or removing one of the aspects of it, but it would feel weird then rush doesnt give atk speed or speed or reload speed so i prefer the 1st option. or maybe reduce the range of it. tp: prob just reduce the range of it by like 5m.

i have no idea where the argumentation comes from that kirikos teleport shouldn't require LoS because of a CINEMATIC?! That's such a dumb stance to take. Hanzo used scatter arrow in cinematics, we don't have that yet, Cassidy used to be called McCree, yet that name isn't even mentioned in a side note anymore. i think the TP requiring LoS is a fantastic change and allows counterplay

7:22 this my friends is stockholm syndrome in action

Pretty hot take here i was watching the last video where he talks a bit about counterwatch one of my most hated things on tank is getting dogged knowing first point on defense is very situational I can be instantly counter picked I think there should be a 30 to 45 second timer that locks the attacking tank on which ever tank they were on when the doors opened that way there wouldnt be as much incentive to swapping immediately after the 30 to 45 seconds is up because of ult charge during that time dont get me wrong this take is quite actually just a bandaid to a larger problem but it would at least fix one of my most hated interactions around the mechanic ❤

I will never understand the people flaming in quick play

I was under the impression that the "Mauga 2.0, illary 2.0" was the way forward for blizzard. Like they doubled down on overtuning new heroes or did they not?

Playing tank is definitely rough, and yet somehow its the only role I'm good at. By which i mean its my highest ranking role, silver 5, and yet its the role i get flamed the most in. I have some dogshit damage and support games and i feel i rarely het called out if ever, and i Will say playing damage isnt always as easy because if you dont get the kills you don't pay the bills, at least with tank you can make space, eat some cooldowns, and mitigate damage for your team. As a support you can heal or disrupt the enemy team in unique ways and occasionally get kills, but when im damage i feel like im not doin anything if im not confirming kills. now im not good at the game by any means, so im sure alot of this is just my low rank pool and personal kill. Frankly though i think damage can be more difficult and more match defining than tank or support, and yet they are the roles thay get flammed the most? Somethings just dont make sense to me.

what if swift step max range was much shorter through walls

whats he talking about identities? hanzo once had scatter. which was also shown in his cinematic. so?

It’s not all the abilities it’s all of them combined. That’s just wrong suzu is by far the strongest cooldown in the game. Aoe, Immortality, Intangibility, healing, bonus healing all on a 15 SEC cd. Swift Step is one of the strongest movement abilities in the game. 35m range is genuinely insane. It cleanses and gives an invulnerability window. All on a 7 SEC CD. That’s less than genji/venture dash. Her kunais used to be busted now they’re only really good. I will stand by the fact that healing Ofuda is one of the strongest heals in the game. 35m range, and while it’s not aoe you can hit multiple people at a time with auto locking heals. Then Kitsune rush which can be argued to be the best ult in the game especially as a combo tool. Kitsune+whole hog = lost team fight. So no Kiri is not a sum of her parts she is the 2nd strongest hero they’ve added into the game after brig and before sig and soj.

"before you cut me off" as if they aren't words on the screen that can be easily ignored