P0420 How To Diagnose A Bad Catalytic Converter -EricTheCarGuy

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O2 Sensor Video: • O2 Sensor Basics - Eri...
Discussion about this video: www.ericthecarguy.com/forum/18...
I know this video will not only save people some money but also I think it will solve a lot of confusion concerning the operation of the catalytic converter. These tests work as you can see in the video. So the next time you have a P0420 or someone tells you your catalytic converter is bad you'll know what to do to find out if that is indeed the case.
Stay dirty
ETCG
Due to factors beyond the control of EricTheCarGuy, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. EricTheCarGuy assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. EricTheCarGuy recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of EricTheCarGuy, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not EricTheCarGuy.

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20 дек 2012

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Комментарии : 1,7 тыс.

@jeffsternberg5242 2 года назад

Omg. Finally someone who knows what they are taking about, and clearly explains what he is doing. Best part is that he shows what a bad cat looks like, and what a good system should look like on the OBD. Very helpful. Thanks

@ALexMcDunny 11 лет назад

This is how all RU-vid videos should be. Clear, intelligent, demonstrative. Rockstar quality.

@JoyLong 2 года назад

Not everyone is as knowledgeable as ETCG

@kneebarx 2 года назад

that’s why he’s a legend

@billsanborn5836 Год назад

and you can find him everywhere man

@recoveringnewyorker2243 9 лет назад

Hi Eric! It's Shep in Florida.(Retired tech) 3 years ago I replaced the engine (2.2 4cyl) in my 2000 S10 with a new (not reman) engine from GM. I replaced the fuel injectors and pressure regulator (Sorenson). o2 sensors (AC Delco). And cat (Walker). 11 months later ap0420 code appeared.The truck runs like new (it should with a new engine). I have no vac or exhaust leaks (vac at 18 in' average and rock steady) No misfires and fuel pressure is normal. NO other codes,and gas mileage is good. AutoZone replaced the cat at no charge. Last week the p0420 code appeared again.I ran a live data test. The U/S sensor switched as expected. The post sensor switched between .11--.95 volts. AutoZone replaced the cat again and the post sensor now reads .73--.78 at highway speeds and .44--.47 at idle and right around .50--.54 volts at 35--45 mph. My GM tech friends say I need to install a factory cat ($1000--$2000).My auto tech instructor (the 1 who taught me 30 years ago and is still teaching) and my independent tech friends say that's nuts and a Walker cat ($179) or any cat should be fine. Any ideas? I was always taught that cats don't just die,they're murdered. Florida has no emission testing (except for Miami) but a mil drives me nuts. Thanx and G-d bless.

@dakota51tpa2001 2 года назад

All of these are great tips, but let me tell you my experience. I have a 2013 Nissan Altima S with the 2.5 4 cyl. For several months I was plagued with the P0420 code. My mechanic tried all the usual diagnostic techniques, checking o2 sensors, cleaning the catalytic converter, even going as far as gutting the rear catalytic converter to relieve a suspected blockage. The problem not only persisted, it got worse. Instead of coming on every 150 miles or so, the Check Engine light came back on every 50 miles. I have probably spent around $500 trying to get the stupid light to stay off. You know what finally solved the problem ? As per routine maintenance, I removed and cleaned (I have a K&N) my air filter. I cleaned and re-oiled it according to K&N's instructions and re-installed it. NO MORE CHECK ENGINE LIGHT. After all the hours and all the money needlessly spent, the solution was to clean my freakin' air filter ! Something so basic and elemental, I didn't even think of it. The lesson here ? Check the most basic, cheapest stuff first. You may think you have a special car with a problem so unique, no mechanic has ever seen it before. In all likelihood, its something simpler than you or your mechanic realize.

@TheBest5MinuteWinePodcast 2 года назад

After reading your comment, I'm thinking that changing my oil might have tripped my P0420 code. I wonder if that's possible?

@TheCybertiger9 2 года назад

Phil I too have a PO420 code, and I changed the air filter, and the light went out and stayed out for over a 100 miles, BUT came back on now. Prior to this after i reset (turned off) the check engine light it would stay off for 50 miles tops. So you might have something here. Let me ask. The K&N filter...reoiled it ? huh?

@dakota51tpa2001 2 года назад

I'm sad to report that the air filter change did not ultimately solve the P0429 code problem. It eventually came back on and it visits frequently now. I'm out of ideas and I'm just going to keep clearing the code and keep driving.

@luisbedolla144 2 года назад

@@dakota51tpa2001 so how’d it go? Still on?

@dakota51tpa2001 2 года назад

@@luisbedolla144, yes it keeps coming back on. I have a Fixd Diagnostic device. Now I just leave it plugged in and clear the code through the Fixd app on my smartphone. Someone mentioned cleaning the MAF sensor and I'm going to try that, but if that doesn't work, I give up.

@darmaggi 7 лет назад

Great information. Thanks for the details on how to track down the source of the P0420 code, because obviously I don't want to have to replace my cat if it's just an O2 sensor.

@jackward9435 3 года назад

You, sir are a national treasure. Thank you for so much great information! I've used your videos many times to handle work I would've otherwise had to pay someone to do. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

@southonet 8 лет назад

I end up on your videos often and it resolves my problem or otherwise educates me. Thank you for what you do.

@ChrisLaingDance 8 лет назад

Hi Eric, I really love your videos, as I've been searching them for an answer as to why my Mazda Protege 2000 loses power when it warms up. It runs great though, smooth idle and purrs nicely, just has no pull and goes so slow. After watching your videos I now know it's nothing to do with my exhaust obstruction, thanks. So now to watch more of your videos to find out what the issue is.

@bengarcia2074 4 года назад

This was really informative and professional. You seem like a mechanic and youtuber who cares about their work. Thanks for the information, this will definitely help me with my maxima I've been having issues with.

@ThatSkaterKTS 6 месяцев назад

What ended up being the problem? Did u fix it ?

@ThomasJoseph315 10 лет назад

Eric, Thank you explaining this! I known for a long time that laser temp trick, but I never used it or seem the temps from it. This is going to be very helpful this weekend!

@BillsAllotmentDiary 7 лет назад

Eric Ive been watching your videos for years and have been inspired but not yet been in a situation where I had to try out your basic tips. However I have recently had the P0420 code and have watched a number of videos on the code and was thinking I would need to take the car into the garage to see if it was a sensor or cat issue as none of the other videos gave a easy way to check and test that is until I saw this video as I have live data on my scan tool I did this test on my car and BINGO exactly the same issue so I went to the scrap yard and picked up a replacement cat now to get changing it. You are a star mate.

@OldsVistaCruiser 5 лет назад

Where can you get a cat out of a junkyard? It's against federal law for yards to sell cats!

@vangrollerboi 9 лет назад

Got a P0430 and was wondering what it meant. You've simply explained it. Thank you for the upload and sharing your knowledge. Keep them coming cause we'd be lost without you.

@coreyfreeman6226 5 лет назад

I had this code on one bank (V6 engine) for close to a year, all O2 sensors checked out fine...also started getting lean/rich codes which made me check for vacuum leaks(all good) & clean my idle control valve because the car started shutting down when idling, no change then decided it must be a bad MAF. bought a cheaper Chinese model for $45 on eBay vs OEM pricing...cleared codes and drove for a couple of days or 70-90 miles...rescanned and everything was good to go including smog readiness. Just passed smog...converter was fine but bad MAF was sending false air readings to the ECU, thus flowing more fuel which cooled the converter aka not warmed up enough (below threshold). Fuel economy was not good...but now i can drive 1/4 tank to and from work for 3 days on a v6.

@gamewiz0070 9 лет назад

Eric you gotta open your own mechanic school. Teach people man you know your stuff. Keep up the good work! Love the videos.

@jasonlavoie5791 5 лет назад

This is his mechanics school right here, all for free, brought to by your youtube sponsored network.

@emmaleahramirez9654 4 года назад

Is there any way Eric could check the converter in my Toyota Camry 2004 my converter is not working the engine light came on give me some feedback

@codeyhanna767 8 лет назад

Ended up taking in the truck and the cat was replaced under warranty. Thanks for the video and all your info. Saved me a ton :)

@doug900S 3 года назад

Very good video! My son has the same code, and I’m trying to figure it out. I’m changing the 2 downstream O2 sensors to see if one or 2 might be lazy (wishful thinking, I know) now I’ll have to bring my infrared thermometer out and do the test! Also, I’ll monitor the voltage swings as well. Thanks for the video, you just enlightened me!

@ludpilo8876 8 лет назад

Good job on showing what a good cat does not only a bad cat

@DanLoFat 6 лет назад

Yes, me too. That prowves whther or not it's "something else" or the actual CATs being bad or good. I think those digithermes are like 30 bucks? And rentable from Autozone - not really a rental , more like a borrowing, then return it within 3 days, and you wont get charged for it.

@TheSilverSurfisher 3 года назад

Dude! You are a marksman!😃 On all aspects of the word. Pinpointed the problem ...but also that steady hand aiming the laser between that tiny space with almost No wobble while lying on the ground side ways... that’s that Sniper-Stuff right there...👌🏾😎

@Matbug1812 5 лет назад

I was taught that in a 3 way cat the first section was for Nox and the rear section was for HC and CO. Some manufacturers used mini Cats just off the manifolds for Nox and they put bigger cats downstream for CO and HC. Probably more then you wanted to get into, on a basic understanding video. I did not know about the X in Nox. Good video Eric!

@Skipperj 10 лет назад

Thanks.Your right Eric.I like the custom list.I will try that,as I have that same Actron.The Ocilliscope reading for O2 Sensors 1&2 would show rapid huge fluctuations on a bad cat.Good cat, only O2 1 would change rapidly but even, and 2 slow even changes.That's from Pro Demand DTC PO420.A quick test with a vac. gauge can also verify a clogged cat. At start up the reading will be 18-22 in hg,then as back pressure builds, it drops a lot.Then engine will have no power or shut off.The smell of rotten eggs is also a symptom.

@Anand-qb1wp 4 года назад

Learnt this: Upstream O2 sensor switches voltage all over. Downstream O2 sensor voltage should be more steady.

@billcollins2966 9 лет назад

Great video! I really appreciate you taking the time to document and explain various diagnostic and repair procedures. I thought I might point out something. Not a point of criticism, just trying to help a fellow gear head out. At 7:29 you talk about trying to "shoot the laser between the heat shields." The laser is just a guide for you to know where you are aiming. The infrared sensor below the laser returns the temperature value. Also, the sensor measures a circular area, the further away you are from the target the larger the area. The value returned will be a rough average of that area. It is important to note that the laser will point above, not directly at, the center of this area. On a high quality IR Thermometer you can expect the circle to be about 10:1, distance to diameter (aka distance to spot or D:S ratio). In other words, at 18" distance to target the circular area you are measuring will be approximately 1.8" in diameter. Check your users manual for both the off set distance of the laser center line to the IR center line and the distance to diameter ratio.

@kevintdickson 3 года назад

Note that a very shiny surface will not give an accurate IR temp reading.

@ShredHeadJHJ 9 лет назад

Eric, you are awesome. This code has been haunting my Accord for years. Now that I have a scan tool with live data I'm going to perform this check my next day off.

@htwrk2 10 лет назад

Hi Eric Thank you Eric! Thank you for the simple way to test for a bad cat. My daughters car is a 2005 Subaru Legacy with the infamous P0420 code. I used my scan tool and the infrared thermometer and got the same results. However at least the driver side cat is lighting off, only one to worry about. This saved me from wasting 70.00 for a rear o2 sensor.

@Brownbeardad 3 года назад

Thanks Eric, a video I can understand. No waveforms, short term fuel trend or long term fuel trend.

@Hello_its_me_mario 7 лет назад

note to this video. if you have a air fuel ratio sensor it will read different. this is only for o2 sensors

@AnythingEverythingGh 4 года назад

How different will it read? I have air fuel 02

@waynebeaver4096 3 года назад

I’ve already subscribed, but I would subscribe again over this. Thank you so much for posting this along with the explanations. You saved me a bunch of money - I hope I can post something reflecting that savings. And not only did you save me money, but I learned a ton. Now I feel I have a more solid foundation of emissions. Thank you sir.

@jaysonbuckley 9 лет назад

Thanks man, a P0421 code came up with my car. The o2 sensors are both fluctuating between .1 to .9. Now I'm pretty sure my catalytic converter needs to be changed. Great video, thanks!

@jdh1812 10 лет назад

Very informative Eric. I learned something today. Now I can go home and have a beer!

@evileloli9347 9 лет назад

Good video, very handy to know. But I've got a BMW and there's a warning light on the dash saying "catalyst" I have no idea what it is. If you can tell me please. But keen to get dirty to find out. Lol cheers

@jacobmarley2417 3 года назад

I just came from another video talking about this code who suggested just tossing a bunch of gaskets at the intake and hoping it was just a leak. Thank you for in depth descriptions talking about how to diagnose the cat

@istich27a 10 лет назад

Thank you so much for this awesome video. I don't have a live instrument reader but I did take the temperatures of both my catalytic converters. The one coming from the engine has a temp of about 500 degrees going in and only about 230 coming out. The one under my car is about 220 going in and 220 going out. Am I right to believe that it is the cat coming from the exhaust manifold that is defective? Thank you for your help

@psmith4491 2 года назад

Excellent video! Clear, concise, pure information. Thank you.

@TrungNguyen-qi7rj 8 лет назад

Thank you so much! This was exactly the case with my van.

@jw18xxx 6 лет назад

Well you just saved me thousands. Do all my work and the car runs stellar but had an 02 code off and on and looked under a nice scanner and wouldnt you know. No voltage to upstream 02 sensor, cracked downpipe and scanner wont read post cat 02. Im stumped as when i re did emissions my car did worse than first test. My guess is cat is mostly plugged as it doesnt like over 4k rpms, my nox is the only reading failing. I dont have excessive coolant temps but maybe 200 in my engine on a 190 t stat. My fuel trims seem really off and performance seems worse after its been driving all day. Oh and cant get any more temps so about to lose out on a nice car. May get a digital thermostat tonight and check readings. If its good then idk what else will cause nox levels to double. Also HC and CO readings were up there but still in passing limits. Had 2 mk3s jettas before and bost fast passed and practically no tailpipe emissions when they were working

@RefinerSimilitude 8 лет назад

THANK YOU!!! Warmed up, at 2500rpms the oxygen sensors are reading; (bank;sensor#) range of movement, Fuel trim % Upstream (before cat) (1;1) 0.20 => 0.80, -3.1 => 8.6 (1;2) 0.20 => 0.32, -3.1 => 7.0 Downstream (after cat) (2:1) 0.16 => 0.80, -5.5 => 5.5 Exhaust pipe temp after cat is only 30deg Fahrenheit greater than pipe temp leading into cat So, because of your help I am able to start with replacing the cat! 2002 Acura RL, trouble codes (in order) P0118 (seems fixed by replacing leaky rad cap), P0420, P1486 (seems fixed too).

@kiwionarope 10 лет назад

Excellent video, very informative, thanks.

@garrettwhite9071 8 лет назад

have to be careful with a lazer style temp gage, most people think that where the lazer hits is where the temp is being read. Actually the area being read is larger than just wat the lazer hits and the farther you get away the larger the area being read. Think of it more like a flashlight not a lazer. if you want to pin point you got to get super close. Most of this should be covered in manual.

@wilkyahzee2335 5 лет назад

Garrett White I remember years ago I took my car in to have my cat check. The guy raised the car and pointed his laser at the heat shield. Now that I seen THIS video, what that guy did was wrong. It would have given a false temp reading. As a result I bought a new cat. I think I was cheated.

@ledzeppelin1212 3 года назад

Thanks, Garrett. That's good advice!

@eddiesheeran5791 2 года назад

Great video Eric! I'm diagnosing a P0420 on a 2012 Altima right now. All your info is super helpful!

@jobeppe 3 года назад

Hi Eric, I hope you still read old videos comments as I have an interesting story on a catalytic converter: My car is a 1994 Autobianchi Y10, OBD1 single point fuel injected, bought new back then. The cat is still the oem one but it stopped working many years ago. The car was starting to burn oil and I diagnosed bad valve seals. I decided to do a head job, so replaced the seals, lapped valves, machined the surface for the new head gasket and finally put back the head AND (this is important for the story) I changed the paper seals for the throttle body. Started the car and immediately something was wrong, it runned very rough and had problems to stay at levelled idle. I noticed that the engine was running hot, I took my temperature gun to check exhaust temperatures and they were very hot, even at the muffler. I decided to verify temperature before the cat, it was around 220 degrees C (428 F) and 400+ C (750+ F) after the cat. So.. the cat was working! I then discovered that one of the paper gaskets for the throttle body was the wrong one so it had a bad vacuum leak. I replaced the gasket, solved the problem with the engine but.. cat stopped working again, now I have barely 180 C (356 F) before cat, and around 150 C (300 F) after cat. It looks like that the exhaust is not getting at the right temperature to make the cat working properly.

@Rinyotsu 10 лет назад

Side note, also make a heat shield to redirect the gases away from other components if necessary. The hole for the o2 sensor points right at some rubber hoses so I redirected the gasses with a makeshift aluminum sheeting I had. Not Ideal but I only went about 500 feet to do the test a replace the o2 sensor.

@bned-hv3of Год назад

Thanks bro! Great video! Helped better understand my scan tool and the infrared scan as well! Was sure what I was looking for in the scan tool.

@adanarceo4636 2 года назад

I appreciate when Eric upload a video about. A car problem. Usually when you have. P0420 is because the catalytic converter is done, is dead it’s not goba work no matter what you do. I can tell that by personal experience, it happen to me twice.

@AnthonyPR-nk8cm 3 месяца назад

Thank you for all your time and well intentions for our lives 🎉

@joudomsouk 6 лет назад

Thanks Eric, I did both of these tests on my 2005 Honda Odyssey and I do need a Cat. Do you have any recommendations other than OEM?

@johntran1831 3 года назад

What about o2 sensor? Are they good?

@ryanray2010 11 лет назад

very knowledgeable video. good job eric. keep making them, i learned a lot from this it and u helped me figure out what was wrong with my wrangler. u saved me $744.32

@shawndiesel007 Год назад

Excellent video, subscription earned! Went through an ordeal this last smog test. Ended up being a TPS sensor that wasn't throwing a code. Now just more interested in understanding how all these things work together.

@mechanic7417 9 месяцев назад

98 Ford Ranger 3.0 inlet temperature on forward converter is 100° higher than the outlet. Will be checking back pressure. Truck sometimes stalls while driving or stopped. No check engine light or codes on this. You have great videos and tips

@mattr6128 5 лет назад

I've got a crack in my exhaust manifold 2001 Honda Civic I was told that I should just replace the whole thing with the catalytic converter and manifold all in one piece. If on the road too long I get a check engine light p1361 top dead center sensor noise. Should I replace O2 sensor and camshaft position sensor when replacing this manifold and catalytic converter

@ericthecarguy 11 лет назад

No, cats work like I explained in the video and that is their main purpose. They also help with HC and CO but those are secondary effects.

@ShawnsterVideos 5 лет назад

Thanks for your specifics & clear communication! Always glad to hear your expert opinion. My 2012 Kia Rio is already showing check engine light due to P0420 after passing only 98K miles. I've been able to clear code 0420 using high octane gas plus using a bottle of CRC G2P brand fuel emissions test formula, once per month. What's your thoughts regarding CRC G2P bottles, and a Rio's cat-converter going bad after only 98K miles? Thanks much. ~Shawn

@chefhugo2010 7 лет назад

Great videos! I have a bad cat which melted my 02 sensor to its harness. Now I have a bad harness which I cut off. What is the best way to put a new harness on for my 02 sensor? Thanks!

@nodnar3 11 лет назад

what model actron are you using? great videos! thank you for your help.

@Megan-nm9lz 8 лет назад

That infrared thermometer help me you so much thank you for the tip

@ChrisMuncy 6 лет назад

THanks Eric. Wife's Kia Rondo just threw a P0420. Time to do exactly as you described. Thanks for the quick tip.

@jessehndz3124 4 года назад

I watched many videos and you have done a far better job in explaining how to do it the right way. Thanks

@thecheesburgler 11 лет назад

Cool. I was just proud of myself when I did my cat repair and wanted to share.

@nugget5103 2 года назад

Good job man!

@jaygonzalez709 8 лет назад

I was given error code P0430 for my Honda Accord V6, I'm thinking it's the converter, I don't want to change it at least not now, cause it's pretty expensive. Is there any problem if I use the car like this till I can get enough money to fix it? i don't want to risk damaging something else.

@ZackJenkins 5 лет назад

It's been three years. if it still runs, run it. Besides, it's a Honda. You can LITERALLY pull the valve guides out in a D series and drive it.

@Engineerboy100 7 лет назад

Good job Eric, thanks again for a great video! It's gonna take me awhile to watch all of your videos but I'm working on it.

@anthonyiocca5683 Год назад

I add a “gallon” of lacquer thinner to between 5-8 gallons of gasoline. Before oil changes is my rule of thumb , to keep the cats cleaner and clog free. I do it the smarter way. I put a 5 gallon can with fresh fuel in the trunk with the gallon of lacquer thinner. Then with a half tank or less I head to the interstate. At a rest stop or before entering the highway I pure that gallon of lacquer thinner into my gas tank with the engine at operating temperature. I drive with the overdrive “off” until the fuel is nearly depleted. I carry the 5 gallon can with me just in case I need it. I have done this a few times now, and I have not needed it. No sputtering, no hesitation with my engine, 4.6L Mustang 2007. All catalytic converters get dirty then they can get clogged. When they get clogged 2 things could happen; 1. The exhaust pressure could blow the clog out of the system. 2. The exhaust pressure blows the clog along with the internal catalyst materials out of the system. Causing a catastrophic failure.

@ryanfisher6402 6 лет назад

From what I was taught catalytic converters when operating properly will have a hotter temp on the output end than the input end.

@mpikas 9 лет назад

Eric, just a quick note- I hope you realize that the laser is not what measures temperature, it's just a laser pointer to show you the center of the area that you're measuring temperature at. Also, they typically have a distance to spot ratio, typically like 8:1, so at 8" you're measuring a spot 1" in diameter. The way you did your test I would guess you measured about a 2" in diameter spot, so mostly heat shield temperature... so if you just drove the car, and most converters are mounted longitudinally I'd bet that even a bad converter would measure with the front cooler than the rear due to airflow

@junkemails5050 11 месяцев назад

I really believe Eric knows what he is doing

@junkemails5050 11 месяцев назад

I really believe Eric knows what he is doing

@junkemails5050 11 месяцев назад

I really believe Eric knows what he is doing

@jkdatlvnv 9 лет назад

As has been mentioned by Eric, you need to know about what you are working on. The three-way-catalytic converter (TWC) is part of a whole engine fuel/exhaust system design. With a proper functioning engine system, today's TWC are designed to operate for the life of the car and meet emissions requirements. The best way to test a TWC is with an exhaust gas analyzer (which are expensive) and proper testing methods of which there are several. If a TWC is determined to be defective, the cause of the failure must first be determined. Not to do effective diagnosis and repair of the root cause of TWC failure can result in replacement failure soon after. California emissions testing is super tough and replacement TWC must meet those requirements. Even replacing a TWC in California must meet strict requirements. In some areas of the U.S. to even replace a TWC requires a special certification. Go to any auto parts web site (try rockauto.com) and notice most of their TWC offerings cannot be sold in California. OEMs are often what is needed. For a comprehensive discussion on engine emissions design and catalytic converter info and testing go to this link. This information is also quite helpful in avoiding a TWC failure in the first place. www.lbcc.edu/attc/documents/BAR-2011-CAT-testing-methods.pdf

@carlosk8103 Год назад

Very good info I sorta knew this already from reading some articles after failing emissions however I had to research for days to find all that here is presented in a 10 min video which speaks to the amazing... job done here... As for my problem I've pretty much narrowed it down to one of the cats ( I also had many exhaust leaks but they don't seem to be the issue) but no idea which one... I doubt it's both....As my emissions aren't terrible just my nox is kinda high... at time and sometimes just barely fails... Probably gonna end taking a thermometer to both cats and see which one seems weak... to narrow it down... I've heard that the back cat is responsible for nox but I've also heard the opposite and what seems most likely true that it varies by model....... precat vs main cat.. I highly suspect main instead of pre on my model... but I'm gonna check first as I don't wanna replace wrong part if I don't need because Cali approved CARB cats are like 500$ a piece!!...

@ericthecarguy 11 лет назад

A stick wedged between the seat and the pedal. Very high tech

@steveandrews8301 3 года назад

Lol! Love it!

@DMVyungin 3 года назад

Cracking up 9.28.2020

@georgewashingtoniv8745 Год назад

@@DMVyungin 3/16/23

@Asian_Connection 8 месяцев назад

😢 I don't know where else to go. NO mechanic could figure out my problem. I know this the only place that has the answer. I have 98 4runner with 140k, which I gave my son to use. Recently, the car shutter around 50 mph, it feels like it's searching for gear (going up and down shifting) but I know it's not a transmission issue. Only a few think that I can detect, the tranfercase has a front drive shaft seal leak, probably half of the fuild is gone. And the other was a recent front brake pad change. Clicking sound is heard on driverside drive axle spinning it, car shakes around 60-70 after brake change. PLEASE can someone give me some pointer on where to look. Thx u.

@brayannexon4613 8 месяцев назад

Lol I just put my spare ECU on the gas pedal.

@jayjanyh2932 4 года назад

You have a clogged cat if: 1 your car has been burning oil for months and months. Usually you get the P0420 code. 2 your gas mileage has gotten 20% worse. When your computer senses a rich burn, it leans out your mix. Lean means sends more gas and results are that the mpg is hurt. 3 you can not accelerate on to an on ramp to a hwy. The car boggs down due to restricted exhaust flow.

@deegoa 4 года назад

So what do you do in this case? Clean? Replace?

@jayjanyh2932 4 года назад

@@deegoa You have to stop the oil from getting past the valve seals, the piston rings, or both. Have a wet compression and a dry compression test done. Google search dry vs wet compression test, to find out what your results mean. If you stop the oil "burning" your next cat will last 20 years, otherwise it will continue to get clogged.

@deegoa 4 года назад

@@jayjanyh2932 I was actually able to get P0420 to clear by using lacquer thinner (saw a video about from Scotty Kilmer). I remember having a compression test done and the mechanic told me it was fine. He did it in a parking lot while I was at work (he was a mobile mechanic). Not sure if it was a dry or wet test?

@ditomathew1 6 месяцев назад

@@deegoa Did that lacquer thinner solution lasted for a while?

@fieldsofomagh 10 лет назад

great video and very helpful.the tempt method saves doing the back pressure method.

@julioantatico2752 7 лет назад

I thank you sir for your knowledge you have shared to us, so we have now an idea to diagnose and fix our equipment, God bless you because you share your talent.

@alexm2623 7 лет назад

Okay, this is for all the people who did this test, then rushed out and replaced their bad CCs and then weeks or months later it is bad again. Your catalytic converter didn't go bad just because it was old or whatever. It went bad because SOMETHING ELSE IS WRONG too. If you don't fix that, you'll just keep blowing your new converters. Start looking for things that cause the engine to run too rich or too lean, burning oil, etc.

@GrzegorzDurda 7 лет назад

The Entire set of O2 sensors should be replaced along with new cats. 02's need to be replaced every 75K to prevent issues like this.

@alexm2623 7 лет назад

Replacing O2 sensors can help prevent issues related to bad sensors like rough idling etc, but replacing your O2 sensors won't save your cat if you're burning oil.

@GrzegorzDurda 7 лет назад

Alex M Burning up cats is a result of prolonged conditions of incorrect fuel to air. This is the number 1 cause of such failures. Especially lean conditions. These Sensors need to be swapped like spark plugs. They all work together. 100K max for sensors and plugs, Optimal is 75k.

@alexm2623 7 лет назад

This is true, and I agree, but the number 1 reason of blowing up cats in my experience is with engines that leak or burn OIL. Incorrect fuel/air can do it too, but not nearly as often as oil problems. Again, just in my experience.

@alexm2623 7 лет назад

I will also add that IF an O2 sensor goes and threatens to do such a thing, it almost always triggers a code, so you can replace it with plenty of time. Most people get the code, throw O2 sensors at the problem, then still have the code and blow their cats without fail. That's usually because of that oil I mentioned.

@boaterbil 11 лет назад

I have to say something. The downstream o2 sensor is to monitor the efficency of the oxidizing converter. Not the reducing catalyst. The reducing catalyst reduces the nox and there is NO field test for this without a dyno. The oxidizing catalyst reduces co and hc.

@brandone711 4 года назад

I have never not been disappointed by this guys videos

@kittyfanatic1980 10 лет назад

eric, thx for sharing man. your vids are very informative and its wonderful that youre volunteering your hard earned time to allow others to save money and DIY:) idk about your subaru but i do know atleast in the older vehicles that you can obtain an eastern brand converter for about 50 ( my volvo 240 is around 39 give or take) universal. how good are the eastern ones though at that price id think shit but fill me in on this because if they are any reputable quality ill just replace my original instead of welding the spots that are leaking on the body.

@SuperDeluxe80 8 лет назад

i failed my smog check and the only thing was the NOx test, yet nothing is or was wrong with my car. i went back the next day and passed without any work i just said they fixed it.

@DanLoFat 6 лет назад

Trust us, they did NOT rely on your testimony,. dude.

@benztech911 9 лет назад

you need to explain to people that the exaust temp. should be hotter at the rear of the convert than at the front. its should be about 100 - 150 degress hotter at the rear than the front. you left out the specs. thanks

@bleudj 5 лет назад

Thank you! I was confused since he used different terms in the Subaru he said Inlet/outlet and on the odyssey he said front and back lol

@logmegadeth72 5 лет назад

He explains this at @8:05 - @9:00 must not have been paying attention...

@gabrielchico5129 5 лет назад

rogo manago tanks for that comment

@strobe9 5 лет назад

@@logmegadeth72 Listening is hard... 😆

@lanceduvall8807 5 лет назад

You go to depth into details, people that dont understand mechanics all that much will confuse them. Also, he did mention different temps from front and back at the end. Pay attention if you want detail!

@Joey_Avocado 9 лет назад

great video and great info! My 01 Impreza 2.2L just threw a p0420. Thanks to your info and Scotty Kilmer I now know how to diagnose(you) and attempt a cheap fix(scotty) either way I will be replacing the cats with new units since the flanges are pretty corroded.

@DJSekuHusky 3 года назад

I got an abandoned 01 Xterra from a tow-yard for $550 because of the P0420 code in Colorado where they do emission test. After using an Auterra to diagnose the issue at the lot and the Autel tool I use at work once I purchased the vehicle, I was able to identify a failed front cat as well as an intermittent failure on the front O2 sensor. $100 catalytic converter, $100 Bosch 02 sensor and $150 in labor later and it's running like a champ once again. I tried the $20 eBay "Chinesium" O2 sensor, which lasted two weeks before burning out again, so best to get OE quality parts. It was funny because once everything was bolted up and I fired it up and revved it all the sooty black water got pushed out the pipe. Soon after the rear cat temperatures and O2 values began looking right, so I lucked out with it only being half-plugged (due to a leaky valve cover gasket that was dripping oil onto the front cat). No leaks or issues ever since. Best of all, no engine money light. This video came in quite handy through that ordeal several months ago, so thanks for your help. This was the first vehicle I ever had to do emissions work on, and the last time I worked on a KA24DE it was in a 92 that didn't have hardly any emission devices. A lot has changed in nine years, thankfully it wasn't that hard to mend the issue. The hardest part was all the rusted and heat-welded bolts that had to be cut off with a angle grinder. I must have wasted two weeks trying to PB-blaster soak them and hitting it with the breaker bar for nothing. The ones that gave usually just ripped the heads off the bolts, so just cut it off and save time.

@gracenin999 8 лет назад

My car sounds really loud now, when I drive it. is this a sign that I need a new catalyct converter?

@Fomites 4 года назад

Grace623: It's probably because your catcon has been stolen or at least interfered with. This has happened twice to my Gen 2 Prius here in London, UK where catcons are stolen for their rare metals that do the catalytic converting.

@juanmarshall4083 2 года назад

Catalytic converter sometimes have metal plugs that blow out or you can have an exhaust leak somewhere in the system that your system would need to be inspected

@Mohammad5025 9 лет назад

To bad I live here in TEXAS were we do have emissions test's on whatever vehicles yearly and it could be a pain to pass inspection.

@Calliboss 9 лет назад

Yearly! Jeez... even here in California it is only once every other year and we are the ones who got this who emission reducing thing started!

@joshuaneuman4329 7 лет назад

I live in Texas and don't know a single person who has gone through an emissions test. In fact most people with diesels or old vehicles just run straight pipes. Maybe it's the city you live in?

@sal33mmalik 6 лет назад

Diesel cars dont need emission test in Texas as per DPS website

@DanLoFat 6 лет назад

OR may be it is the times he was living in, 2years ago, when posted. Texs dont have no more testing.

@ericcrea6837 5 лет назад

Texas definitely still has emission testing.

@colebraman597 3 года назад

Thank you for the help to not only solve the problem but giving me the knowledge on what to look for!

@dustinlandau3563 2 года назад

Had a couple videos that have been very helpful. In this case, ended up being an exhaust leak as the readings panned out based on this video and moved on.

@LinusScrubTips 9 лет назад

I live in Florida and I'm glad we don't have emissions testing. I think my passenger side cat is failing(or o2 Could be bad haven't gotten under my truck yet). But either way, I get to it when i get to it no rush.

@LinusScrubTips 9 лет назад

***** You want to pay for my two replacement cats? Because I drive I truck and both cats are welded into a single y pipe. So if you care about it so much fork up the cash for the whole thing or do the welding job to put in a new one.

@geot4647 9 лет назад

LinusScrubTips Coal roller types will always live among us. Fuel injection made some emissions tests redundant but a lot of people still modify their engines and don't give a damn about the public "airspace."

@LinusScrubTips 9 лет назад

Geo T Not enough to make a difference. I say let those people be.

@geot4647 9 лет назад

LinusScrubTips I'd say it's a good 10% of people, at least. They favor their personal situation over the public good.

@LinusScrubTips 9 лет назад

Geo T I disagree. No way 10% of all drivers remove their cats. Most people don't even know how to change their oil let alone remove a cat and still have their vehicle run properly.

@CARDOCM 11 лет назад

The video is informative, but, if the issue that destroyed the Catalytic converter is not found and repaired, any replacement catalytic converter will fail also. Problems with engine performance cause failures. If the problem is caught early on, failure can be prevented. They do not wear out. So, did you find what damaged the catalytic converter? I doubt it was curiosity. Google "engineers perspective on P0420" and click on the link to subaruoutback org .

@zyxnix 10 лет назад

Good job. Great video. Going to check out the cats on my 2002 Civic and 2000 Dakota this weekend.

@jeffalan6339 5 лет назад

I work on the old school cars 60-70s collectable stuff. My daily driver bought the hems manuals even they don't go into the detail you do bud. Teach a shop classic to have more capable techs, I worked for dealership wasn't my thing

@mibars 10 лет назад

Eric, I think you've over simplified what cat converter actually do. Old two-way cats didn't even do a thing to NOx emissions. Nowdays caltalytic converters are a "three-way" type because they perform 3 functions: -Burn unburned fuel (hydrocarbons) to CO2 and H2O (consumes oxygen) -Burn CO to CO2 (again consumes oxygen) -Reduce NOx to N and O2 (releases oxygen) O2 sensors are used to keep the correct ratio of oxygen in exhaust to keep all those 3 reaction going.

@HighestRank 10 лет назад

milbars, I think you've undersimplified what an O2 sensor actually does. It measures temperature. When ericthecarguy points his laser pistol at the cats, it is just to confirm what the sensors say. He's checking their function, not the cat. To check a cat still requires a 5 gas analyzer.

@mibars 10 лет назад

Rýán Túçk Did you just say that oxygen sensor measures temperature? So what in your opinion is measuring a sensor equipped with heater? What Eric is doing is using pyrometer (that "laser pistol") to measure inlet and outlet temperature in cat converter. As it is "burning" (well reacting, without actual flame) unburned fuel it gets hot - So outlet temperature should be higher than inlet. Since it is not it indicates that cat is not working.

@jdean9717 10 лет назад

Rýán Túçk 02 sensors measure oxygen. Before you try and tell someone that they are wrong make sure you are right you idiot.

@briancorbett793 10 лет назад

I thought the same thing as i watched the video...i think he may be trying to not over complicate it for the average youtube video watcher like this guy who thinks that oxygen sensors measure temp???? haha...if they measured temp...why wouldn't they be called temp sensors...

@harrymajarian9680 5 лет назад

Always learning something new from these videos. Thanks eric🤙🏼

@ptlpszt1 4 года назад

You the man etcg. Ive been learning from you since the beginning. Thank you for everything you have contributed.

@butre. 9 лет назад

we don't have emissions here and the guy I go to for inspections will take a 6 pack of mickeys to look the other way on things that don't involve vehicle safety so I just run with a test pipe on vehicles that have had cats go bad

@montydaniels1054 3 года назад

I think the issues with that with newer vehicles is the manufacturers engineering people have probably set the ecm (computer) to read certain temps as well as voltage. I mean if it was a simple thing, you could just plug the primary location with a bolt & then leave the secondary in. Then the sensors would read lower temps on the primary, telling the computer the cat is working. (I think anyways) I just change the cat & count it as vehicle maintenance.

@butre. 3 года назад

@@montydaniels1054 I don't mess with newer vehicles. my current vehicle is my newest and it's an 05 Silverado, test pipe worked fine on that with just an o2 emulator. incidentally 6 years ago when I made that post was the last year that vehicle inspections was a thing in this state.

@montydaniels1054 3 года назад

@@butre. I never heard of that probably because I've tried to keep everything original but on this Patriot, whatever the problem it won't allow the remote start to work. Jeep Engineers have so many sensors on this vehicle I have spent half the time tracking down sensors. Like my abs/speed sensors. Sometimes it's a wheel bearing hub that has too much rust on the inner side where the sensors picks up the speed from. So you gotta change the hub in order to get the speed sensor to even get a signal. At 9 years old, I'd sell it for $1500 or less just because all the Jeep lines are for shit. Thanks for the heads up because I might go that route since testing in Michigan ended about 20 years ago. So the pipe still has the downstream O2 sensor & what, you just unplug the upstream, or just plug the hole & leave the sensor plugged in, it's just not hooked up to the cat...

@butre. 3 года назад

@@montydaniels1054 not sure about the patriot but everything I've ever run an o2 emulator on I only needed to emulate the downstream. the upstream o2 sensor mostly just handles enrichment, and checks that the VVT isn't acting up assuming it's installed

@montydaniels1054 3 года назад

@@butre. Well, while I was thinking about that, I started looking around, wiggled a ground with about 20 wires to it ( that really look corroded) & the next time I started the vehicle the brake light came on & now stays on. I swear, the Jeep Patriot, Liberty & Compass are full of electrical problems. Plus I need a transmission cable... I have never had a vehicle I hated until this one.

@Krankie_V 8 лет назад

Those damn subaru's always have bad cats because they burn oil :\

@whatfreedom7 7 лет назад

Krankie V I know someone who just popped a 420 and they said it uses 2 quarts between oil changes. So I wouldn't be surprised. Must be their sideways engine or something. I've never had a car use that much oil.

@Krankie_V 7 лет назад

yup it's the horizontal design I'm convinced. head gaskets always leak too

@alexm2623 7 лет назад

All of that stems from not changing the oil and filter often enough. Subaru's are NOT forgiving if you are slacking on your maintenance. Oil change every 3-5,000 miles if you don't want Subaru engine problems. People can argue with me if they want, but just had too much experience working on them to convince me otherwise. That said, if you do keep up on it, they are great AWD vehicles IF they are MANUAL transmission. Their automatics blow. If you want a car you can be a lazy bum with, get a manual Civic or a Toyota.

@Krankie_V 7 лет назад

It's all from not changing oil? That's why Subaru claims it's "normal" to burn a quart of oil in 1000 miles and won't do anything about it unless it uses more? That's why the US government had to step in and force Subaru to extend the warranty on their catalytic converters? Is that also why about 50% of all Subarus that come into the shop with over 60k-70k miles seem to have oil and sometimes coolant leaking form the head gaskets? If it's all caused by lack of oil changes at 3000-5000 miles, then why don't I see these problems on the fleet of Nissan and Ford vehicles which come through the door every 8000-10000 miles for oil change service? Why is it that my customer's 2015 Subaru with approximately 32k miles burns through 2 quarts of oil every 5000 miles while my 2005 Ford with 179k miles and a slight leak from the front crank seal uses only about a pint every 4000 miles? It's because the Subaru boxer engine platform sucks and is very susceptible to oil consumption issues due to design. Say, where does the whole "normal" oil consumption of a quart per thousand miles fit into the whole "partial zero emissions vehicle" thing anyway? Does it just mean zero emissions while it isn't running? LOL

@alexm2623 7 лет назад

It really does stem from not changing the oil often enough, but you are absolutely correct that some of their designs are junk. For example, there are some Honda and Toyota engines that can go 50,000+ miles without a SINGLE oil change (not recommended obviously, but check RU-vid for fascinating videos) without burning a drop. If an engine is so sensitive to damaging the seals, gaskets, or anything internal that it goes from totally fine to burning oil so quickly with so few miles, the design's quality is questionable. That said, go drive any Subaru off the lot brand new: they won't burn oil. And if you want a Subaru, and you want to keep it that way, you need to be vigilant and use a quality oil. You and I both know that most of our customers are lazy bums and cheapskates that don't want to deal with this crap, and they don't want to accept blame when they do something that's their fault, so they make up stories like crazy ("I've ALWAYS changed the oil every 3,000 miles, it's just ALWAYS been this way..."). That's why I'm inclined to say that for most customers that fall into the category I mentioned, Subaru's aren't for them.

@serenadarling4100 5 лет назад

Hi Eric, great video, as always. Thanks for the information. I notice that you were using a Actron scanner, I have one too but I can't get the first sensor to show the units in Volts. It only displays the units in mA. The second sensor shows the units in V. Is there anything you can suggest so that I can compare both sensors using the same units? Thanks again

@ioccatonyz1 5 лет назад

I cleaned 4.6 GT Mustang (85k miles) by putting one gallon of lacquer thinner into a half a tank of gas about 8 gallons. I added the lacquer thinner with funnel at a rest area on the interstate. Run it all out with overdrive off and punch it a few times "Do not" just put the lacquer thinner in and let it set around with normal driving to work, run it all out right after adding it. I did this twice the first time did stop the p420 code but the second time my scan tool shown a much steadier high voltage with the down stream o2 sensor. The other bank did not clean up as I found out after taking it off that the catalyst material had disintegrated. The side that did clean up had no build up of carbon the catalyst material was tan in color same as the new cats that I replaced them with. Here a gallon of lacquer thinner is $16.00. I am going to use this lacquer thinner method of cleaning every so often on my new cats. Depending what the scan tools tells me what the downstream o2 sensor is reporting. Somewhere between 10k and 20k will get the first cleaning to keep the carbon from building up. I do use Lucas gas treatment often and that will keep my engine cleaner but makes the cats work harder.

@roblav88 9 лет назад

early in the vid, you said that Cat works best at like 12-1600 or whatever, but with the test on the good CAT, it was nowhere near that. ?????

@Calliboss 9 лет назад

Internally within the honeycomb structure the temperature is a few times higher than the external reading... It is designed that way for safety reasons. It is like an ordinary oven in a kitchen. Sure, if you hit the outside with the non-contact laser it will seem like the oven isn't even on. But we all know it has to have been on when those sweet, sweet weed brownies pop out... perfectly done and delicious, oozing fudge nuggets swimming in shimmering milk as they are dunked and drenched and then scarfed down as the chocolaty warmth inverse hugs us from the inside. MMMM

@DanLoFat 6 лет назад

You misquoted Eric on that,m btw

@jamesemmanuel4285 6 лет назад

Yes I agree, I am confuse. The temperature was not anywhere close to what he said. I expected much more different between the tests.

@GrayRaceCat 5 лет назад

rob lavallee, The P0420/P0430 codes indicate that the ECU (by way of the Oxygen sensors) is not seeing the change in exhaust gas composition that it expects AFTER the Exhaust has reached Normal Operating Temperature. The overall temp isn't that critical, what is is the Difference in temp between the inlet and outlet, the outlet temp should be Higher than the inlet, a difference of 100^F usually indicates a passable cat, anything less and the cat may not have fully warmed up or may be faulty. (Many customers of mine come in with a failed smog test because they drive straight from home to the test center, not allowing enough run time for the cat to reach operating temp.)

@firebird14420 5 лет назад

@@GrayRaceCat do you know if the test for heat comes out good would it than be the o2 sensor? With that PO420 code? Thanks

@Maltymaldy 8 лет назад

Wait. So basically the cat is useless? Just an emissions thing? Doesn't affect the engine or its productivity? Am I wrong in this because that's basically the first two minutes of his vid.

@SilkyTP 8 лет назад

Well, not useless. In an effort to reduce smog emissions, the government required vehicle makers to outfit cars with a catalytic converter, and then started only using unleaded gasoline. In addition to the environmental benefits, you can no longer leave your car running and enclosed garage and die of carbon monoxide poisoning. So, "useless" depends on your perspective. if you want to drive a car in the United States, I find it useful

@ash_tray_6 8 лет назад

+SilkyTP You can definitely still die from leaving a car running in a space with no ventilation. People die from this all the time.

@SilkyTP 8 лет назад

***** yeah, that's kinda what I said

@ash_tray_6 8 лет назад

No, that's literally the opposite of what you said. Even with a catalytic converter you can still die of car exhaust fumes.

@ash_tray_6 8 лет назад

Unless "you can no longer leave your car running in an enclosed garage and die of carbon monoxide poisoning" means something else.

@vikingrobot4179 2 года назад

His videos are awesome cause he knows how to turn a wrench and knows what kind of videos people that know how to turn a wrench would like to watch .

@TheRebuilt1 7 лет назад

good information and baseline for some to understand diagnosing by understanding the function of your emission control devices. Good work sire.

@allenperkins5098 9 лет назад

im all about cleaner air. as long as it doesnt cost me an arm and a leg. my first car was a 00 neon, converter plugged up, bought it through the local parts store for about 500 bucks... it didnt fit, the flex pipe was about 2 inches short... so i resorted to option 2. a hammer, pounded out all of those precious metal screens inside and my car once again would run longer than 5 mins before stalling. emissions testing is just silly, some of us cant afford to make these insanely expensive repairs for cleaner air. if they really want clean air, just give us a different fuel source.

@DTechnologyservices 7 лет назад

fuck clean air when they spraying bullshit in it from planes and gone tell me i got to pay for my car not to spray the bullshit...

@KrashTWazo 5 лет назад

visit any other country...the U.S. trying to make clean air while countries all over South America, Asia, India, and Africa don't? We aren't helping to the amount the gov't wants us to think.

@deanshoemaker5618 5 лет назад

@@KrashTWazo or they could just give us the emissions parts? Just buy 3 less missiles! Bam free cats!

@superduperboyx 5 лет назад

3 years later after you comment.. Electric Vehicles are starting to get more popular now. But will cost both arms and legs to fix any electrical problems.

@JamesAutoDude 5 лет назад

I believe that if cars are really bad for the environment then they'd cover the catalytic converter and other expensive ass parts instead of coming out with stupid electric cars. Personal belief tho

@dragonsnatch1146 4 года назад

I just replaced 3 o2 sensors and then I get a p420 code. This is driving me crazy I need a smog

@yvettepretty 3 года назад

Could be your fuel system get the fixd sensor it works miracles I got one for 19.99 but regular price is 50.00

@abrahamnoriega3344 4 года назад

Great explanation, Ohio is lucky to have you Erick. Best Regards from Tijuana México! Ps. I always try to stay dirty!

@scottbainbridge4241 2 года назад

This is the first time I have seen a decent way to test a p0420 code. It was always a bit of a crap shot before.. just hoping it wasn't a bad cat. Thank you

@BrandonHill1234 7 лет назад

Thank god Indiana doesn't emissions tests, cause If my catalytic converter were to go bad, I'd just straight pipe it.

@lsswappedcessna 7 лет назад

I don't even have one!

@billyb9710 7 лет назад

Brandon Hill Porter and Lake county's are the only two that do... it's so stupid,

@jkohutiak 6 лет назад

the car is designed to work with the o2 sensors, you can run without one but your CEL will be on, your fuel mileage will go down and your hp will decrease, but please keep sounding like a Indiana hick.

@chuckthebull 5 лет назад

Yeah fuck emisions public health and your kids future. Meruka

@chuckthebull 5 лет назад

Funny how you wankers call anything that wont align with your stupid thinking as "nonsense" when the science that lead to you typing your bull shit on a computer would never exist without it and all the past scientists that studied it and built on it...but its all crap to you.. But its typical of your type that really knows NOTHING about anything of substance THINKS you do. like the sharpest tool in a shed oblivious to its only a shed. So what do you do? you poo poo anything you cant understand so you wont feel as fucking stupid as you are. And you assholes always try and pull rank on people that know a hell of a lot more than you do, like the fact i could tell you how every letter i type gets from the switch on my keyboard to your screen every step of the way right down to the molecular hardware and software level. And then the assumption i just buy government bull shit when its bull shit as some lame as backpedaling attack, but the difference is i can actually tell what is truth from fiction and what is not because i have actually done the real technical research not gone on some site of your fellow wankers that are off in fairy tale land that only adopt the most controversial positions because you think that somehow makes you feel superior from the desperate inferiority complex you obviously suffer from. No doubt the governments are up to nefarious antics and cloud seeding has a purpose but they cant tell you or you would lynch them for fucking things up so badly out of ignorance and greed. same kind you seem to wallow in. And guess what else you are GROSSLY ignorant of?... there is no more nature that is untouched by man,, NONE! zero and there has not been for thousands of years. But you idiots throw the baby's out with the bath water because you are like the witch burners of old anything you don't understand is witchcraft..BURN HER mentality. Fucking idiots! www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/06/06/theres-basically-no-landscape-on-earth-that-hasnt-been-altered-by-humans-scientists-say/?noredirect=on&.084285456970