Part 2 of John Cleese & Dr Iain McGilchrist on Creativity, Humour and the Meaning of Life 

What a blessing to discover Dr. McGilchrist at 33. Never felt so awake.

I love these two human beings so much. Thank you for letting us listen in on this fascinating conversation.

Es tut so gut, diesen beiden zuzuhören! Ohne solche Menschen wäre das Leben eine Qual.

Humour and poetry go together, of course because both are the natural flow of creativity in life and psychology

Love it. They remind me on the two old guys on the balcony in the muppet show.

At 17:50 "Spontaneity, generosity and love are being driven to the corners.." - exactly, and so more of us need to be this to ensure it continues to manifest in this world.

"joshing" and "affectionate teasing" because it shows affection. "subtleties completely escape the woke crowd". And develop a sense of humour about yourself. An excellent analysis ... and so true guys, thank you! The youngsters today (lol) totally do not 'get' my humour sometimes. I am offended by that! (haha, to use their lingo) ... actually it is kind of upsetting that you have upset someone when the intent has been to cheer them up.

I love these two also.❤ Humor has no rules. It's such an honor to hear sanity speaking with intelligence.

Listening to you two old codgers having thoughtful, authentic, sane discussion is nourishing in ways I had never imagined. Thank you both, most sincerely.

I love it too, and I hope they do a 3 hour version. Or do this regularly, discussing things like on other podcasts.

Lovely conversation. I was reminded of how much I liked algebra as a teenage student. Yet when I was taken up for not being able to explain every step I had taken to the correct answers, I understood that what they wanted was not correct answers to problems, and certainly not any fun while engaging in the process - they wanted us to learn a particular series of linear steps. That was terribly disappointing. Maths went from being akin to music and magic to a very boring and narrow thing. When I got to university, I studied studio arts 🙂

I feel as if I'm listening in on a candid and unstructured after-hours discussion between learned friends. Thank you for making this exchange available! Onto Part III.

Coming from Sweden when I went for a long travel throughout South America my childish teasing spirit was brought to life after years and years of suppression... The culture over all being more easygoing (with its ups and downs as everything and everywhere), and the wokeness not having taken its grip on the people quite yet. People are terrifically politically incorrect and I love it. And one can intuit (yes we humans also have intuition) when people are offensive or sexistic in their remarks (which at certain more rare occasions they also are, but guess what it’s not the end of the world)! And when it’s offensive one learns to deal with it! For we can actually do that (stand up to ourselves that is).

In the last 5 or 6 years, humour has gone from the most scathing banter to almost nonexistent.

As a British person living in Canada I miss the British sense of humour. I do hope it’s not disappearing. I think Iain has already found the cause of the problem. A very literal society a self indulgent attitude that can’t deal with any doubt at all.

It's quite appropriate, and I wonder if it's intentional, that behind Iain's left side is a shelf of books (which could represent the left hemisphere) and behind his right side is a piece of art. Of course, like the dots in the yin-yang, we see some books creeping into the side with the art, and the books, one imagines, would include not just explicit information but implicit meaning as well.

It's so much easier to criticise than to create something that will last as a piece of art. Perhaps that's why we have so much time for critics. I agreed with much of what was said.

My favourite part of Life of Brian was the stoning scene!

I love Cleese. In a few words I'm charmed because I usually agree with him.

Cleese is so right, as ever. There is a straight way of talking now which has made interaction ironically boring and also tiring. It's a bit like getting more tired walking in The Netherlands with its totally flat ground, compared to the UK where its all undulations. I also agree that the most toxic are the excessively literal. Its also morose.

I very much enjoyed listening the two of you giggle in between these important observations you took.

Thank you so much for this.

Thanks... I really needed that!

In Ireland we call teasing each other as slagging each other. It’s a form of respect .

Thank you so much.

Such a breath of fresh air. Really…Thank you.

What a fabulous discussion … such great characters!

Thank you for a terrific discussion to witness, great minds throwing thoughts to the wind. I have bought both books.

Like this so much ! 👏👏

Thanks

Wonderful!

Delightful.

Interesting discussion between intelligent people!

So true

Exact same issue in NZ!

A respiratory virus pandemic was always the silver bullet, can't breath can't speak can't smile can't laugh can't cough can't cheer, can't hug, can't dance can't get close, 'can't whisper in someones ear', and the ultimate sin the simple kiss - would actually be nice to be able to get close enough again to actually tread on each others toes, banter makes the world 'swirl' around. learn to dance man

Yes me too.

The Italian mustache joke shattered my diaphragm 🤣🤣🤣

I believe Mel Brooks said he couldn't make Blazing Saddles today. I think that about sums the whole situation up prety succintly.

Thank you. This was an important video for me to see. I'm bisexual and I didn't understand, why my coming out to my friends seemed so weird to me. Not because I am ashamed of it, not in the slightest. But because I haven't given them the permission, or even asked them to grill me for it. It felt so serious, which it really isn't :D

❤️🕊🦋

A friend used to be a zealous evangelical minister and later became a zealous evangelical atheist No sense of humor Thank you for great talks By the way you two just changed me I used to object to Eyeranian rather than my native Iranian Now I think fuck it if you can't laugh at yourself

Is it fun if so enjoy .

Great discussion. I had to chuckle about Cleese's comment on his saying "Mexicans" and the response he got..recently there was an attempt to "cancel" the cartoon character Speedy Gonzalez that was a debacle due to the outrage of Mexicans over it because they love him.

Thankyou both for your work, you've enriched my experience for many many years. Literal minded being the most dangerous. I like this. I suspect there is a variable unspoken about, a mass increase in biological dysfunction being mistaken for injustice. Our technology has allowed us to grasp so much but its attempts to replace and improve lifestyles across the world may be backfiring in underacknowledged ways. Take all the arguments of colonialism and white privilege our of the discussion- what if us, all of us, increasingly moving out of the environments we evolved in has disrupted certain key biological functions despite their benefits. Whether for trade or environmental events or migration or technological advancement. While we share the disruptions, how they present depends on how our individual genes cope with the changes. And instead of figuring this out earnestly, some if not all peoples biology, emotions, cognition are becoming less adaptive, less resilient, more impulsively defensive and eager to attribute moral blame. 'Microaggressions' are more painful than they've ever been. What if we can strengthen people instead of blame others for normal conduct? McGilchrist, your work is so important. I wonder if you'd take the time to observe Dr Stasha Gominak and her work in sleep/gut/health connection. So far I haven't found a more inclusive and comprehensive dual explanation and solution for the madness of our time. What if our biological disfunction is contributing to right hemespheric disfunction? We are in too much pain to live there? We want to explain it away, give an excuse, as if finding the ultimate perpetrator will somehow give us relief? I believe her work would only give more emphasis to the importance of your own. I struggle with being too literally minded and agree it can be hell for inside and out.

enlightenment through constructive process, dedication to purpose to with maximum effort yet humour can get you some big E effortlessly and with moment maximum joy, opposites again?

Forgiveness!

People we can identify with. We are all flawed. Thank goodness my friends allow my black humour. In fact if I didn’t have that I would not cope. My nephew asked me once who made my hair. Beautiful innocent humour. Humiliation and bullying is not on. But affectionate teasing is human.

13:30 VERY FUNNY!!!

The life of Brian was very respectful of Christianity because the Holy family could be seen in the background, from what I remember. But even if that wasn't there it wasn't mocking Christ or Christianity, it was mocking some poor bloke who was mistaken for someone else.

Oh yum yum yum what a perfect intro to the topic!😅 - right just about 13 minutes - just like you said before, the irony is that - my Peruvian ex-boyfriend explained this to me - Mexicans are absolutely NOT like that, at ALL. Actually I'd already had a half Spanish half Mexican guy tell me this already - but enough about my brief rebound times😋. Anyway, I was new to salsa dancing, and the Peruvian boyfriend was explaining to me the meaning behind a song, No te pegué La Negra - literally "don't hit my black". I said stupefied, "wow, but that's so" - I didn't know if he'd get the phrase on the nose, but I got it across, and he looks at his arm and says, "well look at me!" Big smile on his face, he says he doesn't understand why people from the United States think they invented racism. I said really?? I mean yeah, I've certainly heard of Europe but, the sense was bigger than just this side of the pond. Anyway he says, "what's the name of the Mexican place by your office?" I speak decent Spanish so I said oh my God😱 - it's called Los gorditos - or in the language of Don Quixote, little fatties!! (¡🤣🤣!). I said sth like 'wha-ow but, but you're not allowed to say this about people - I mean you can but not me??' And I can't remember exactly how he got it across - he was the only boyfriend I've had that was a good bit older than me in years - though not in spirit. But anyway, he couldn't seem to muster the words to give me that permission himself, it was more like, 'well, if you want to do that to yourself, go ahead I gueess, but, you're not doing it on our behalf🤷🏿‍♂️'. And that was one of those times when I realized that white people are confused, and doing it to each other - kind of like women about their weight. And of course they-we, are. Most people don't need ridiculous tiptoeing - they need f****** wages to start at a living floor!!

DR. Pain MaGillchris :)

Humour is a sign of intelligence. Enough said?

2:52 One may not say "I'd like a pound of cheddar cheess", but nor would one say "Look at that flock of geeze".

It was Iain who made me chuckle the most saying a micro aggression is as awful as a concentration camp 🤣😂🤣

It seems to me that we have stopped listening to each other and lost our sense of understanding words and context.

The outlawing of humour... Umberto Eco would be twitching in his grave

Life of Brian was a brilliant! Thank you Mr Cleese maybe you needed to wear mickey mouse ears for them :)

Very good. Get a spot of fishing in together. Cast a couple of deep ledgers with a triple hook. Should get a lady

I’ve just had a run-in with this in the comments of another video. I made a damn good word play joke and got a bunch of confusion as a result from one person.

I must say good sir that my spelling is horrible. I mean does this make sense to you.

Is Cleese on the Lavatory ?

I think it's funny that JC stops at the Mexicans. Even he's too scared to speak.

Is Cleese pissed?

We are being silenced.

As a true right brainer, the idea of humor, religion and all that is a useful discussion, but I can not understand why you don't touch upon the daily abuse we right-brainers experience when we have to ask a left-brainer to explain information that he/she is supposed to be an expert on. Engineers are the worst! Have you ever asked them to explain a part of their software that 1) they never thought of when designing their software and their response is to send you a bunch of videos or knowledge bots? I like to engage in conversation. That's how I learn. Today I had to yell at Amazon's KDP Management Supervisors and let them know that as typical left-brainers, they rarely understand the question, and always provide partial, inadequate answers. The 2nd supervisor I spoke with, I told him outright, that I am a right-brained learner and thinker, and your partial explanations are inadequate to how my mind processes information. Anyway, after several go rounds, the supervisor actually realized that I needed him to point out on paper, what they expected me to change. The "crop marks" I was required to change were barely visible on the page. The cover page needed to be changed from a white background to a black background. Their initial rejection of my book was that the "cover did not fit specifications." I was expected to devine "change white background to black background" from the word specifications buried under mounds of videos and knowledge bots. I am a fairly well learned person, but as a Black person, I get why Black children lay their heads down on their desks and zone out. The "Instructors," (The American education system has largely banished American Black teachers from the public classrooms) only partially explain important concepts and then blame the students for not understanding, thus labeling the children as slow or below-average learners. I can not tell you how many American Black children have been consigned to the "Special Ed classes," when such children are robust, energetic learners and thinkers who are confronted with and are forced to endure dull, mediocre teachers who expect nothing from them, and do nothing to engage their minds. So while having a right-brained thinking mind might be useful for understanding humor or for even being humorous, that is not the ultimate struggle right-brainers have to endure on a daily basis in a largely left-brained world. I have promised you that I plan to start a RU-vid Channel titled "Welcome to My Right-Brained World," but I have actually had to learn everything on my own on how to create a RU-vid Channel, How to create a website, and lately, how to transform text to speech using AI. (Mind you, there are no elderly, and certainly no American Black voices offered as voices.) So where you see being right-brained as a font for humor, I, in seeking everyday knowledge, see it as a battle to be heard and ministered to, and I won't back down. Left-brainers, who actually think they're smart, are driven by three things: money, power and control. There is nothing inherently creative about them. Thus, they pick impressive-sounding careers, that take, but can contribute nothing to the human condition. Thank you for letting me rant (which you will will witness more of once I get my RU-vid channel up and running.)

As a teacher living through Desantis ' "stop woke" regulations and anti -immigration, don't say gay, and revisionist African American studies, I'm sorry to see you have taken on this terminology. There is a real confusion of ideas here though it is mainly semantics. Perhaps they don't realize how these words reverberate across different contexts. Woke is a word that should stop being used entirely.

Woke is the distraction from torture being re-termed, through the Law of Requisite Variety, as enhanced interrogation. Much like how recycling moves responsibility from manufacturers to consumers.

Ironically there is a little tyrannical box at the top titled 'Community' guidelines. Telling you to keep your comments respecfull. I find that humorous. The idiocy of the techno tyrants.

EVERYONE mispronounces my name. I just tell them, make a sound like you're vomiting. There you have it. 🤣

Watching this with right-brain openness I found some bits helpful, others less so. Yes, humour is stifled by a culture of over-protectiveness, and that's a hugely significant loss. Yes, it's a mark of maturity to be able to laugh at oneself. But 'wokism' amd 'the woke crowd' are simplistic left-brain labels for a phenomenon that's far more complex, and includes a wide spectrum of perceptions and behaviours. Such labelling contributes to the polarisation of our current culture wars. I'm with Cleese on 'screamers' - of any gender or sexuality, though 'irritation' is more accurate for me than 'hatred'. But to compare being the butt of Scottish jokes, and the 'stigma' of having easily misrepresented names, with the legacies of slavery, persecution and genocide is - for two apparently intelligent people - spectacularly stupid, perhaps wilfully blind, and potentially damaging. The quote Cleese mentions - that without imperfections there can be no humour - is thought-provoking. Humour is often used to gently complain about someone's behaviour when we are too uncomfortable or afraid to say to them directly what's pissing us off. But it is also used cruelly (as McGilkchrist acknowledges) to belittle or humiliate someone, flying under the bully's excuse of 'Can't you take a joke?' - which may be funny to any bystanding listeners the 'joker' wants to impress, but potentially very painful for the child (or adult) being bullied. I'd also like to remind comic genius Cleese - as if he should need reminding - that it's possible to have humour without insults. I agree: humour, like singing, is disappearing from homes and streets - but I think we need to look more broadly for the complex reasons. I switched between enjoying what another commenter has called 'a candid and unstructured after-hours discussion between learned friends', and feeling rather sad for the two old duffers in the Muppet Show: unwittingly privileged, ignorant, smug, selfish, sneery, overgrown, left-brain dominated public school boys. (Just joking...)

ref Jokes about Mexicans It was Top Gear that went over the top with laying into them unfairly so.

Guys, I love you and your insights, but political correctness is not about a lack of humor. Micro-aggressions are not about having no sense of humor. This discussion demonstrates a not-uncommon dearth of understanding among (to be frank) old white men (of which I am one). I think this conversation makes a straw man argument aimed more at making privileged old white men feel ok about their privilege. I'd encourage you both to invite into the conversation someone who knows what micro-aggressions are, and dynamics of racism, privilege, and humor. You guys wandered out of your expertise and ended up just sharing your ignorances. Of course, I don't know how funny that conversation would be, but it would be interesting! One last thing, I'm an American and I can't believe this is the first time I've heard how to properly pronounce Cleese' name! :-)

LOL - anyone even remotely 'woke' watching this will dismiss it immediately as 'two old white men' . . . .

"The woke siblinghood" lol

For as much worth as cancel culture is intrepid, you sure do love talking about it. :)

It is. It’s become contrived and boring.

Isn't this just complaining about church that is just culture? Sorry I just step out of the madness the childishness of politics etc and look in on church in on the culture in on civilization. We have the entire knowledge base of Jan understanding at our finger tips and I dare say nature her self? Just keeps being and really doesn't seem to care much about our day to day church complaints as an elderly person.

Iain is too slow and dim for Cleese, just can't keep up.

❤️🕊🦋