Pathfinder: WotR - Ranking All 15 New Subclasses 

what's your updated ranking in light of that?

also umbral mind is there to literally counter the increasing will saves of your summons...

Having Winter Child in the DLC might be like having Firstworld Defender in Kingmaker.

5 Monster Summoner Inquisitor, 15 Reanimator has shenanigan written all over it, since the Inquisitor archetype at 5 distributes teamwork feats to your summons, and, conveniently 15 is where the last summon upgrade kicks in 😆, though they are still summons, just something to keep in mind for Precise Strike/Outflank, since you're looking at flanking after 2 melee summons run up to an enemy 😆 Pestilence Shaman + Assassin with that comfy new Corruptor Mythic Feat has potential to chicanery, and they also released Dragon, Pummeling and Boar Styles from requiring Monk levels (Flurry of Blows) so now you can do boar style for 2d6 bonus damage 😆 Nothing else really stood out for more silliness though. 😥

I am genuinely happy to see you going back to producing content after all trials the life threw in your way in past few years. (Like it did to me too) Happy to see your good work brother. Keep going and be strong!

Yup you are right. Thanks for calling that out.

Came down here to find just this comment. That last instant confused me. I still agree it's not as great as some of the other new subclasses, but I was reading that tooltip while listening and just going 'wait, what?'

I wish it were longer, the BAB increase would really help to make up for the fact that you have to take all 20 levels and can’t dip into ek or another gish class, but imo it’s not worth taking a bunch of melee feats when you’re only melee viable for one minute a day.

Amazing buff but the overall archetype isnt great.

Yeah the Shifter option looks FANTASTIC.

Devs on stream said that they thinking about changing stuff in dragonblood, so hope remains.

Oracle's burden is pretty terrible no matter how many curses you have, but its a moderate improvement on an already great class.

Yup that is true.

It's in the Oblate category for anyone wondering !

My pleasure!

Yeah they did an awesome job with those mechanics.

DR 15/silver from a weretiger can go a long way too. Idk if DR with different weak options still stacks (before it was that if DR has different options to blowing through, then it stacks. So, for example, DR 15/silver should stack with Stoneskin DR 10/adamantite.)

Erm, not sure about that. It seems moderately worse than the base shifter. The main advantage is you start with 3 aspects. The downside is that the base shifter has a superior alternative to every weretouched form and the combination of 5 minor aspects is quite a lot stronger than the weretouched minor aspect. Additionally, though its level 20 only, the weretouched doesnt get infinite minor aspect, and 20 odd minutes per rest where either you run it continuously or you have to remember to deactivate before a minute passes is actually rather limited in practice. Were touched can change as a swift action, but this is incredibly marginal and where its useful, primarily its after a pounce charge, and the shifter's rush feat is fine under these circumstances. The dinosaur with minor spider aspect gets a total +8 AC by level 15, immunity to AoOs, 5 attacks per round and pounce, as well as a large initiative bonus. You can also grab +6 Dex and Strength and further +6 damage with other minor aspects. This makes for a substantially more powerful form than any weretouched form. You might argue that the Weretiger is a better tank, but the DR is conditional and the healing is negligible. By endgame, yes, the dodge bonus is larger. However, you have no infinite minor aspect, so a lot of the time, you will be 6 dex down, or 1 less AC net, and have a dramatically lower initiative, which really hurts both offensively and defensively. You also dont have AoO immunity. And when it comes to offense, its not even close. 2 extra attacks and a +6 bonus to natural attack damage on top of the same strength bonus, and at endgame with unlimited use. Its not a bad archetype, though I would say the rat is far weaker in its role than the fae shifter. Werewolf is probably a better form than wolf just for tripping, though I am not sure by enough of a margin to warrant the loss chimeric aspect and dinosaur is for my money a better all round tank/damage dealer than anything weretouched has to offer. I certainly don't think its "blatantly much more powerful" than other new ones. Dual cursed oracle is a moderate improvement on an already extremely powerful class. Hag of Gyrona is an upgrade over the witch, though whilst any merged lich is extremely powerful, witch is probably the worst of the pure arcane casters. Otherwise, I do think the new archetypes are worse than pre-existing archetypes for their respective classes, but arguably, weretouched falls into the same category.

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!

Wow! That makes it even more awesome. Thanks I'll definitely be giving that class a look.

Thank you! Hope you enjoy it!

Thank you! Glad you enjoy them.

The debuffing qualities of HoG really appeals to me.

If you like caster druid, you will definitely like winter child. Possibly my favorite playthrough yet. I played as an azata with it, had a blast.

demonslayer 20 tandem executioner 20? you get level 40 pet with boon companion ? full bab and ranger spells (you lost hunter spells ) but now you've got ranger bonuses and studied target . as slandered gaming would say, "that's bananas!!!!"

Glad you enjoyed it!

Thanks glad you enjoyed it! Hopefully when Owlcat does another Pathfinder game rat touched is an option.

Hope you enjoyed it!

Awesome glad you enjoyed it!

Hope you enjoyed it!

My pleasure!

Thank you!

My pleasure!

Yup looked like it would be a good time.

Can you share some of your experience with it? I admit it sounds interesting on paper but I'm always skeptical of how new things interact with WotR's assortment of demon resistances, etc.

also fire being a better damage dealing energy type doesnt matter since you could just have a fire spellcaster in the team to make use of the gear as well

@@shikimori9467 right. I honestly use ember as my fire slinger and backup healer, and for that evil eye.

@@SaintofQuartz what makes it so strong is your ability to impede terrain and the high level of spell DC. With certain items you can just blast right through even boss resistance on tactician. Fire is better specific damage, but a lot of the cold spells just radiate out from you. Run ember as a hex fire blaster, and a shaman winter witch, and have at it.

Yup it was like riding a bike!

Glad you liked it!

Thanks glad you enjoyed it!

Thank you so much Black Fist! I really appreciate all of your support this year and glad you are enjoying the channel!

Glad you enjoy it!

Thank you!

It looks awesome!

Awesome hope you enjoy the breakdown.

At some point yes but probably not soon because I need to work on Rogue Trader content before that game comes out.

Yeah I was hoping it would be something that made shadow spells more powerful.

I'd really think this subclass to be something like a super-illusion focused one but nope, it just feels like a clunkier version of Ninio

I probably did underrate Dual-Cursed and it's because I don't like Oracle in general. I know some people love it but it's not my thing. Didn't know about point #2 that's pretty huge. Also based on the description I didn't think Final Justice stacks with MoJ. Strongly considering a Tortured Crusader for my next run.

Personally, I would say tortured crusader is fairly bad. You probably dont want to run two paladins, and unless you do, the stacking is moot. Would you rather have a substantially lower bonus to AB, AC and lose the ability to apply these benefits to all your party, in exchange for an additional +20 damage on one target, assuming you actually hit (which you are less likely to do)? I just think the trade is a complete non starter. If alone in the dark stacks off summons, this I expect is a bug and will hopefully be fixed. It surely cannot be intended to spam low level summons to stack the buff. Losing the ability to cleanse crowd control on party members sucks, losing the bonus to saves sucks, having to pick weapon bond over horse sucks. Bonus feats are nice and the capstone is nice (but very lategame). However, I am still definitely going to want to take Seelah (who also gets the unique and very powerful shielding companion ability), so I am never taking this. I would agree, Dual cursed oracle is a moderate upgrade and its already one of the best classes in the game.

Exciting times dude!

Glad to hear it!

@@SlanderedGaming yeah man ty!!

Thank you!

My pleasure!

Yup I will probably do the same thing.

Having a compelling werewolf option is really nice.

Interesting that's a perspective I hadn't considered and I am not sure if it works that way.

Oh yeah reduce person for dark lurkers makes sense I didn't even think about that.

Yup Reanimator looks awesome.

Yup I think Owlcat did a nice job.

Nice hope you like it!

Yup that's true it's just not my cup of tea. If I am getting a bunch of spell focus for Illusion than I am using it on Weird and Phantasmal Killer.

One thing to note, demon resistances and immunities have also been nerfed a bit, immunity to poison no longer means that they're immune to disease effects.

I haven't looked into build making yet so not sure.

My pleasure!

Wow. That actually sounds incredible.

Ahhh good tip. I'll remember that for next time thanks!

Yup I am thinking of doing exactly that.

Yeah I really like Hag of Gyrona.

@@SlanderedGaming speaking of hags (and witches) the child of winter (druid) is elligeable for the winter witch prestige class :3

I put up a pinned message about Shadowcaster. Hadn't seen the new feats will definitely check that out.

Yeah, I feel like duel-cursed was undervalued here, you get Ill Omen for free, one of the best 1st level spells, extra revelations, Fortune and Misfortune options. All of that for taking on another curse whose effects are rather negligible if you build correctly.

Blackened is a terrible curse to take and staggered is only on the first round of combat. I am not sure if you have tested it, but I doubt oracles burden with powerless prophecy staggers at all, and if it did, staggering for a single round is not a powerful effect. You have much better options with 2nd level spells.

@@notalefty999 It should, since that's how the crossbow with exactly the same effect works.

@@acrab6527 Its still a bad spell. No curse is actually all that debilitating. Stagger for 1 round is 1 round and otherwise, the curse effects necessarily arent that strong (otherwise the character would be unplayable).

Yeah apparently it's a class many people use to play Wolverine in tabletop.

Walking, biking, and trying to eat better. Thanks for asking.

Almost there!

Wowwwwwwwwwwwww LMFAO

😂😂

Yup that could be an interesting build.

Nope none of that was provided in the patch notes.

Yeah, I'm feeling this as well. I feel like every damage caster is going to want to dip into Geomancer.... but maybe it's a little bugged right now? I just started an Oracle/Angel blaster play through, and I killed myself and all my enemies by casting prayer from a scroll with geomancer on... it proc'd the geomancer 1d6 dmg + stun like 3 times, and I took 3d8 damage at level 2... 😅

I really like Tortured Crusader, though I wish there were more roleplaying dialogue options (unfortunately, there are SO many archetypes they probably couldn't possibly go into more unique options for each).

​@@kingleech16 Yes, it would be great if each individual subclass had its own unique interactions. I believe Owlcat did not have enough time and resources for this, and probably also expediency. For some reason, I think that the majority of players still play either the base class or even OP builds and do not pay attention to all the variety.

Wow that sounds sick. I wonder if they will patch it.

@@SlanderedGaming Probably. I've been told it's only supposed to affect main attacks, Rules as Written, and of course, they've said already it's not supposed to affect Aivu, Devourer of Cookies...I want it to since she deserves it after all the nerfing...which still left her stronger than several party members, to be fair, but she deserves a treat.

Me too! Owlcat did a great job.

Nah WotR is SIGNIFICANTLY more stable than Kingmaker.

Dude it looks like a TON of fun. I might have to give it a whirl.

I think this is the build for the portrait of the gnome with a pickaxe.

Hmmm that is an interesting point to consider.

Yes there's a pinned comment where I corrected that.

You might be right. It's be so long that it's hard to recognize whether or not spells are new. I was hoping a list of new spells would be in the patch notes but that doesn't appear to be the case. LOL

@@SlanderedGaming Confirmed it is a new spell. Create Greater Undead. Quite potent; Devourers which energy drain each attack or shadows that drain strrength.

@@spellandshield nice!!

I think that's why they give you the +2 bonus but I agree CON saves are really hard to pierce through.

It's better than it seems here, because it's not just 1d4 damage - there are a ton of additional rider effects there that Slandered didn't cover. And if you just focus on ability damage, it can be 2d8 to two attributes

@@Kammereer i remember killing spawn of rovagug in first game with stat damage (he has pathetically low int, so basically just one really lucky hit would lower him into 0 and he should die.) It took me 20 attempts where half of my party was focused on inlficting int damage: curses, plague storm, cursed bombs, i threw EVERYTHING at the wall and almost nothing stuck. It took 20 attempts to finally succeed. And i only need to damage him to -4 int. For really large targets, sadly, dispelling everything they has and then trying to beat their touch AC is almost universally the best way. Damage to stats is unreliable and hard to pull off.

Oh good question I didn't test that.

To me that counts against it because there's probably a ton of enemies who are highly resistant to ice damage and you don't get mythic abilities to bypass that.

@@SlanderedGaming You do! That is very much a thing that you get!

Cavalier is awesome but yeah Ghost Rider isn't getting it done.

Yeah that Paladin looks fantastic.

Demon.

😂

Yes I believe that is the case.

@@SlanderedGaming Thank you :)

Oh nice I didn't even think about Hag-Riven for Wolvie. Yup that makes a ton of sense.

Honestly I almost never grab Selective magic for crowd control mages so that's why I don't really consider it.

You would need to provide more information like what Mythic Path you are planning to run, what party, etc. From there I could give you some tips on how to make it most effective. I will say that Angel is the most powerful mythic path of them all so if you wanted an easier time with Core the Cleric-Angel combo is probably the way to go. Some people also swear by Oracle even though I am not a big fan of it.

​@@SlanderedGamingYou've just reminded me why I put down the game and why I won't be picking it back up. I never finished my first run, and this DLC seemed interesting. The patch seemed interesting. New classes seemed interesting. The game is so unfriendly to people unfamiliar with DnD, and you have to plan shit out to the enth detail if you're not playing on easy. I don't want to plan everything out. I don't want to study DnD. I don't want to have to spend 5min doing a buff dance on Xbox before every interaction that has more than a trash mob.

Crpgbro is your best friend for wotr, He made the game literally easier than super mario, follow any of his guides and you will beat the game on unfair in less than 80 hours.

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@adamkadir3803I didn’t have a problem on normal and I’ve never played a DnD game in my life. You can use the premade builds for companions and your character or you can just take a class that’s strong and really easy to build like bloodrager primalist. There are also mythic paths that are more beginner friendly like azata That being said part of the games charm is its depth and complexity anyone who doesn’t like that would probably be better playing something like divinity or dragon age because you’re really missing half the experience otherwise.

I believe they come with the DLC.

Available for the base game.

You can play them in the main game.

@@SlanderedGaming Thank you :)

I agree but it's also constantly huge which I find very annoying.

@SlanderedGaming Funny enough legendary proportions make it smaller. Also, all cold damage by your summon works with your mythic cold ability.

😂

😂😂

Basically it allows you to do the same thing without burning a mythic ability or being forced into Trickster. Doesn't provide something different but gives you a potentially easier way to go about it.

Oh yeah that sounds like a really good time.

Massive. The Blizzard elemental is no joke, I just hate that it's always a huge size.

@@SlanderedGaming can he tank better than leopard though?

😂

Hellfire rays don't have a DC check, it's a direct attack. Witch doesn't get good Evocation spells that benefit from increasing DC.

@@SlanderedGaming what kind of spellls should i be using?