I remember one time I went to a coin shop and was excited to buy a graded coin in an ANACS holder and the owner of the coin shop looked at me like I had shat my pants
Completely agree. I think part of the problem with PCGS is they must be overwhelmed. That is: they don't have enough qual8fied/experienced staff to handle the volume they're receiving.
I think the PCGS saga continues 😂. It's all about the $$ with them now. Dude I've been doing VAM diagnostics all morning and still haven't determined which it is. I picked up a, raw PL 1878 8tf in great condition, i knew nothing other than that when I bought it last week. This thing has more doubling than I've seen before on a Morgan of mine. The entire year, Liberty on the cap, all 12 stars are doubled..some possibly tripled.. really noticeably. And the reverse has doubling in US of America, the arrow points/heads, and on one dollar , some letters as well. It looks wild under scope. Especially the date and front stars. Fun video buddy !
You’d think one like that would be a top VAM or a WOW version. I don’t typically look for all varieties anymore since they aren’t typically worth much more. Not worth getting them designated and slabbed anyway, but it is still fun to find them. I’d check out VAM world and they usually have lots of pics. But 1878’s have sooooo many vams. So good luck haha. Thanks for watching
Your best bet with PCGS Restoration is to submit coins already graded by PCGS (instead of raw) that lack eye appeal, have copper spots, bad toning, etc.. I've had some great success with this service using it this way.
Thanks for the advice. I’ve seen people get notes back from PCGS that say “this coin may benefit from our restoration service” but I’ve never gotten one myself.
@rockysramblings I've seen NGC and ANACS slabs get submitted to PCGS Restoration come back "Cleaned", so there's that too. Different grading companies, different results.
You might as well have pcgs restore coins no matter what. You either pay $10 for restoration + GP or you pay $10 for evaluation. You seem super concerned about all of these varieties and attributions that most collectors don't care about or pay extra for. Once you get better at evaluating coins your submission results will get better.
This submission was a year ago. I have improved since then. However I was under the assumption the milk spots would get removed. I’m sure that hurt my grades. Hard to get a 68 with milk spots.
@@rockysramblings you will learn over time I have already spent thousands on proof franklins the milk spots and carbon spots can not be removed it’s part of the coin it’s soap residue from the planchet washing when it was washed it did not get washed off and then when it was struck it then becomes part of the coin the crazy part then can grow I have purchased franklins with a pin head spot I didn’t know was that put it in my sage a year later it’s bigger and has gotten bigger some spots will come off but if it is truly a milk spot it will not and both ngc and pcgs clearly say they can’t get them off just be careful if you get franklins or 64 Kennedys make sure it’s free and clear of any spots before purchase ok and the varieties they only recognize the ones that add value like top 100 or too 40 but you are correct take it off if you are not going recognize it
@@rockysramblings also there is no way to tell if a coin has been cleaned and then toned up again until it’s cleaned again so unfortunately that is part of it you run a risk of them cleaning coin only to realize it’s been cleaned before at that point I feel like they should only charge for cleaning not the holder’s
We all love our classics, think they are worth premium values, I have been guilty of this MANY times in the past! I haven't experienced unboxing from graders yet, but most are disappointed in the results they received. There is one guy, lets call him Ben, He has a desired grade in his mind, then mentally notes (1) grade lower, if he feels the lower grade is worthy of his investment he proceeds. This may have helped you, seems that each result was (1) grade lower than you were hoping for. Thank you for sharing your experiences, we all learn daily. Good luck next time at bat
That has kind of been my thinking of late as well. I’m trying to improve to where I can be more accurate. My newer videos show I’ve gotten a bit better.
@@masonsteele1159 Any educated coin collector or bullion collector would know how to tell if something is gold or silver by using reliable tools for testing, as well as detailed examination of the coin. I have been collecting coins for over 60 years and never once have I bought a fake coin. These so-called independent grading services only care about making money. They are very inconsistent in their opinions of grades. That is why the caution is always to "buy the coin, not the holder"! If you are not educated and learn by experience but only rely on the grading slab, you can be defrauded as well. There are also fake holders out there.
@@masonsteele1159 If you are in coin collecting, then get educated on how to spot fakes from real coins. It is not that difficult. I have been collecting coins for over 60 years and not once have I bought a fake coin!
Rotated dies are not going to be noted on a label unless it's at least 15 degrees rotation (about 2 1/2 minutes from 12 o' clock). Cameos scored by the graders as No Cameo, Cameo -, Cameo, Cameo +, DCAM-, DCAM, DCAM+ but are only designated as Cameo or DCAM (or no Cameo). As you mentioned, you must have cameo contrast on BOTH sides to get a CAMEO designation. Many people focus on the device and forget that the LETTERS and DATE must have contrast, too.
Thanks for the info! I’ve seen some coins labeled with 5° rotation, but I think they were ANACS. I didn’t send that penny in with variety attribution anyway. So no complaints from me on that. Just noticed it as I did the video.
I get the frustration, meanwhile I watched another creator get a PSA 10 on what he thought was 6-7. As a buyer/investor/collector, this is why I feel safer with coins. Not to mention all the other problems in cards.
7:36 looks cameo to me. One other thing: Is it possible to submit to PCGS for restoration only? Might be worth submitting for restoratiin only, and then submit to NGC, or Anacs or something
How do you go by getting most of these to send off? Id love to get some benjis and walkers to maybe have graded sometime. How do you feel about NGC? I only have a few slabbed pieces and they're all ngc. Anything someone new to it all should know?
If you’re new to the hobby and want to start slabbing coins I would start with ANACS. I use ANACS as a filter. I used PCGS to begin with and sent in a whole lot of coins that I didn’t get the grade I was hoping for which really didn’t make it worth it. Plus they’re expensive and you need a membership. I started using ANACS and if the coin doesn’t get the grade I’m hoping for then I don’t lose as much. And you can always crossover to PCGS or NGC at a later date. Plus I feel like if another company has graded it you may have a better chance of getting the grade on the slab. I have no proof of that but I know people are lazy and if you get a lazy grader they may just crossover without much review. I have not used NGC but I’ve heard good things. However I believe you need a membership with them also and they cost more than ANACS as well. If you are looking to sell then PCGS gets the best prices, but it’s harder to get the real high grades and IMO they don’t like to allow the real gems unless it’s undeniable because if there are more of them it will lower the values.
You seem to understand grading better than PCGS. You should arrange a meeting with the seasoned senior professional graders at PCGS and show them how to grade coins.
am an artist and have alot better trained eyes than any of what so callled grader i can engrave a coin so we work to regulate sue them and demonstrate i canget more than 50 peupuls just familly and friends who is intersted
pretty interesting to see the franklins, that 62 deffinately looks/seems like a cameo. Idk how much more contrast/transparency theyre looking for. I wonder why they didnt give it a star atleast similar to how NGC does cameo on obverse coins but not reverse?
$10 to restore. Grading was $18 I think and variety was another $18. They’ve raised their prices since then tho. Plus shipping to and from. If it isn’t worth $100 it isn’t worth it at all.
If been thinking about it. If they get the same grade it’s not really worth it but I think without the mill spots they might grade closer to where I thought they’d be. If I resubmit it would be to ANACS.
I’ve been considering removing some of these from the slabs and cleaning them myself and then sending them to ANACS to see how they grade. But if they grade the same it isn’t worth it other than to flip off PCGS lol. Sometimes the spots don’t come off but I have had it remove it. I have a process I use. Typically a mild soak in ms70, then a very light wiping of the surface with a MS70 soaked Q tip and if I feel I can get it to be a little nicer with a quick eZest dip then I’ll do that as well.
I pretty much got out of the franklins proofs because of this I fell in love with finding and opening my own sets sending to get graded trying to get a ultra cameo only got one got few cameos but one ultra cameo but the milk spots etc I sold all mind sets and just keep few slabbed coins most time of you find unopened box 62 or 61 Franklin sets and you open the box and open 1 set out of the 100 if it has milk spots you can take it to bank they all got milk spots keep trying I lost bunch money chasing those coins then lost on coins I thought were nice to have milk spot grow inside holder
Never heard of not attributing if the strike with doubling isn´t "prominent enough." Fully agree that it is pure BS. If it shows doubling, it IS doubling!
Never read anything about that being something to take into consideration, and never ever found or read anything about that "hurdle" on PCGS´ own webpage. If so, could we have some photos listed under their "Coin Facts" to see if we can see what that significant "prominence" is all about? In addition to this BS, the PCGS obviously does not grade any attribution not listed in their own "Price Report." An expensive lesson that I learned in 2012 sending in over 200 Kennedy halves. This is rather odd as CONECA has many more variants listed (cf. J. Wiles, Variety Vista, etc). They don´t even grade some of the FS-variants! Why not attribute all recognized variants to us collectors even if they don´t list them specifically with value in their price report?? What is it that I don´t see or understand is going on behind the scenes here? Well... I sent the same load of coins to another recognized grading company. Oh yea! They did grade all but three with DDOs & DDRs... but ONLY stated it was double dies on the labels! Only 31 with FS-numbers got that on. The rest were without specific DDO numbers like 001, 002, etc. Labels stated "Double Die Obverse" and "Double Die Reverse." Now what good was that? With 189 useless labels and a shitload of cash down the drain, I was seriously considering leaving the hobby for good. All the time spent researching, buying books, etc... totally in vain was quite depressing. I called the company. They gratulated me for getting so many double dies confirmed. I asked them how I would go about trying to sell some duplicates without a specific CONECA-number labeled. "Buyers will know it's a double die for that year and mint," was the reply. "Ok, so... there are the same year and mint with many variants which differ in rarity, and therefore also value. Like the 1964 Kennedy half. How about that?" "Well Sir, at least you´ve got a good start!" Yeah, what a good start that was. I finally had to hang up in the rain of BS, realizing I was both able and ready to kill. I used eBay to get rid of the coins. The only time I was glad they existed. Nowadays I see coins with CONECA numbers listed on labels, but also still many uselessly only stating double die. For the latter, I really hope that is coins from an old failed practice, and that things have changed for the better. If not, that sh#¤&% will seriously kill the joy of collecting variants.
There are a lot of varieties they don't attribute that other grading companies do. You have to make sure they'll attribute that variety before sending them in.
64 Half is gorgeous , I’ve had similar issues with both PCGS and NGC , one example when my FH 1920 SLQ was upgraded from MS 63 FH to 64 but lost its FH designation, WTF? or their questionable color AKA questionable KNOWLEDGE!!
That might be PVC “damage” Acetone will remove it. Just let it soak a bit then rinse with water. If you have city water used distilled water. I use tap but I’m on a cistern and I’ve heard some people get a derails grade from washing with water. Might be the fluoride in city water. Tap dry with a soft cloth.
Since you are dissatisfied with PCGS cleaning (I have no experience one way or the other), thinking you can do better, as an experiment, crack them out and do your process on them. If they improve, then you are better. If they don’t, then you have to question your opinion. I’ve seen many comments online asserting that milk spots can’t be removed. Have you proven otherwise ?
I can see the hairlines on that 1889 even with the toning. should have been left as is and not even sent in for a restoration. Even with your lighting it was obvious the 1887 was not near Pl. Not to he a dick but the coin grading companies are not the issue , it's people who think they are because they are to liberal with their own grading abilities. PCGS and NGC were more forgiving before CAC came along and many coins were over graded. Loose grading did not benefit the hobby.
I’ve got my reasons for disliking PCGS and it’s not the grades or them pointing out a cleaned coin. This submission was a year ago. I never would have sent that coin in now. I agree, it was obvious and I was more naive then. However their service has definitely gone downhill since I first started using them. Look up my other videos where I had issue with them. It’s hard to deny the mistakes they made.
@@rockysramblings If these were high value coins then I would say crack them and send to CAC or NGC . As for their conservation, if a spot did not come off then they would probably leave it alone so not to alter the surface of the coin. I see a lot of these videos where “collectors” complain about PCGS or NGC , once again as said prior your grading skills as with most collectors are not going to be at the level of the top grading services. Next time just conserve the coins yourself , I figure you had PCGS do it just for content creation.
@@musicman102357 at the time I submitted the coins I was still using pcgs and hadn’t ever considered restoring a coin myself was very nervous about attempting it. Now do it routinely and am comfortable with it. I wanted to try their restoration service out. So this was the result
So t😮moral of this story is: DON’T LET PGCS GRADE, ATTRIBUTE OR LOOK FOR CAMEO DESIGNATION!!! I have never been a big fan of PGCS. But it sounds like if you send it to PGCS for restoration and grading at least you won’t get a “ cleaned” in the details label. This is exactly what happens when you send it to NGC for restoration and grading. So this presents a conundrum. The only solution that I can think of is to clean the coins gently with Ezest and make sure that you run them under cold flowing water and rub them with your fingers. This should take care of the residual dirt and no detectable cleaning marks and leave you with a bright white coin with any and all attributes easily visible. So I wouldn’t use PGCS for anything. They are inept at handling the coins to the customers satisfaction. But after I clean them, I would send them to NGC for grading.
I have changed how I do things since this submission. I pretty much send everything to ANACS now. If I find something that’s worth a lot or I need to add it to my registry after sending it to ANACS then I will send it over to PCGS. My thinking behind it is that if it is graded this way by ANACS then it may be more likely for the lazy graders at PCGS to accept it and cross it over. Also, I can tell them not to cross over unless it meets the ANACS label.
You do not need to have an active membership to maintain a registry on their site. Also you can save loads of money by buying coins that are already in holders. You have spent way too much "experimenting"
Rocky: "Every coin I send in is a gem grade with cameo/deep mirrors." *sigh Is it really the grading company that is off? Or your opinion of your coins? Rhetorical question. Something to think about.
I wasn’t impressed. The only one that looked real good to me was the yellow Morgan. The proofs even had a bit of haziness on them. Maybe I sound arrogant in the video but I wasn’t lying when I said my restorations are better. I do them all the time and ANACS hasn’t graded any of them details. I just did a Morgan yesterday that was extremely dirty cuz I was looking for varieties and it came out quite nice!
@rockysramblings I didn't think you were arrogant at all. I've seen other videos of people doing the same thing, and you are correct. I think you can do a better job than PCGS does.
Yes, Rocky, words matter. PCGS deems their process as Restoration, while NGC/NCS refers to their process as Conservation. One really needs a lot of experience to properly evaluate mid-twentieth-century modern proof coinage, especially when it comes to those showing cameo/deep cameo appearances, which will be so designated if warranted. There exits in the marketplace a large amount of these coins, both raw and certified, which have been “played with,” as I like to say, in referring to coins that are no longer in their original state.
I mean cleaning, conservation, restoration…. They really just label it that so they are different from the competition and they have a different word to use rather than “clean” since they dogged on cleaned coins for decades. Then decided they’d offer it as another service. 🤷🏼♂️ I don’t like BS like that. I’m no politician. I’ll just called it what it is. Cleaning lol
I get it on most of them. But when they see one that’s clearly been cleaned, they shouldn’t have. They either didn’t read or they just wanted the money.
I wonder if you just need to speak with more dealers, or more collectors it seems your really set in your ways or your opinions and from what im hearing/seeing on your videos I think you just need to open up more and hear others experiences or possibly speak with other professional collectors to take in more advice or possibly consider a mentor? Im not saying this in any demeaning way or saying your wrong but just asking if you have considered any of the following.
I’m learning as I go. I’m not a professional nor intend to be. These grades were my assumptions a year ago. I have gotten better. But I will also say I’m more experienced with Morgans. Proof coins are not my forté.
Please watch this video: Cleaned coins grading results! Can you avoid details grades? ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-UIPhBPLipY4.html Then watch the prequel to it. Then stay tuned for the PCGS version
what a scam, if they catch you dipping them its cleaned, if they do it its restored, conserved or preserved, what a joke, dip your coins, just dont scrub them and no one will ever be the wiser...
I do a quick soak in MS70, a light wipe with a Q-tip. And yes, I even wipe them with it. Then I rinse and tap dry. Been doing it for months now and haven’t been given DETAILS grades on any yet.
Thanks for the reply, i havnt tried wiping with a q-tip, just dip and rinse with distilled water, i just see so many videos/comments of people saying you ruin the value of the coins and its just not true, hence the grading services literally doing it and charging for it lol.@@rockysramblings
am an artist and have alot better trained eyes than any of what so callled grader i can engrave a coin so we work to regulate sue them and demonstrate i canget more than 50 peupuls just familly and friends who is intersted
Anacs is the intelligent choice.ngc. doesn't know what great coins look like pcgs. Must think they are the only accurate grading service, time means nothing, and charge anything they can
