Peak Torque on Bike Marketing, Real World Aero Savings and Hookless Dangers

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Is they bike industry a big SCAM? Hookless Rims are the most dangerous technology we face and what (if any) bikes are good value in 2023.
Nero Show Featuring ‪@PeakTorque‬
Huge thanks to Alex from Peak Torque for spending some time with us answering all the questions we have been discussing on the show over the last few months. Alex has an experienced and unique view of the bike industry, something we leant on in this discussion.
Check out Alex's Channel: / @peaktorque
Chapters
00:00 intro
00:30 Industry marketing claims
14:21 Have We Reached Peak Aero?
18:23 What's Going On In China?
23:07 Industry Quality Control
31:07 Hookless Disaster
44:03 Are New Bikes a Rip OFF?
52:00 Carbon Spokes
1:00:00 What Tyre Width Is Fastest?
1:14:06 A RU-vid Engineer
1:23:14 Hambini vs Peak Torque
1:26:41 Pro Cycling Watt Bombs
SUBSCRIBE On RU-vid: bit.ly/2gMWc1t
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Apple Podcasts:
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INSTAGRAM: @chrismiller27 @nerocontinental
TWITTER: @chrismiller @nerocontinental
STRAVA: / strava
Check Out Jesse's Coaching: www.nero.club/coaching

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Опубликовано:

16 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 488

@PeakTorque 11 месяцев назад

Credit to these guys! Turned this around very fast. Can confirm that Chris can get it up very quickly 🎉 even as a cyclist Few comments to add: The easy answer to the 305W NP questions is - it doesn't get easier you and everyone else just get faster. The avg. speed of the bunch I bet has gone up I bet over the years. Secondly, Mr Bigham has been on the phone to say every GC leader should ride an aero bike. While the CFD says deep in the bunch there is up to a 95% drag reduction, the ride files don't show that, which he has access to :) Some more comments about tubeless - the tubeless center channel depth is really important when it comes to safety, yes you can make it deeper for easy installation (and the bead seat diameter can be the same at the wall) but if the bead slips down into the deeper channel under total pressure loss it is equally easy for the tyre to come off!

@WishTheMorrow 11 месяцев назад

😈

@matthewbenger8355 11 месяцев назад

🍆

@datadrivendave 11 месяцев назад

I've been hoping for this one for a while. Great to see you on; and I loved that you grabbed the calculator as soon as Jesse started asking watts numbers :D

@HoldenDoesBikeStuff 11 месяцев назад

I’m here to confirm Chris can’t get it up. Jesse tho? Rock hard.

@goldenretriever6261 11 месяцев назад

Gay.

@jonathangriego7334 11 месяцев назад

How is this podcast just getting better and better?! This is probably my favorite episode so far. Please have PT back on again. Great job boys!

@dominicmunson4480 11 месяцев назад

He said it! “You can’t cheat the physics” should be PTs tag line 😅. Great episode

@henriqueratz 11 месяцев назад

Wow, this was my absolutely favorite episode! Great job to all 3 of you. As an engineer, I am in absolute awe of how well Alex can explain such complex topics and make it seem so interesting. He is a fantastic teacher. Keep up the good work with the podcast guys! you're absolutely right, the goal is to generate the conversation, and not cover 100% of the details.

@ChrisMillerCycling 11 месяцев назад

Our pleasure!

@adammillsindustries. 10 месяцев назад

If he grew a mullet out he’d be an absolute god!

@future62 11 месяцев назад

I started this thinking "no way am I gonna get through an hour and a half".... got to the end like "wait yall are done already?" Great stuff, pod keeps getting better and better.

@littlemrdrummer 11 месяцев назад

PeakTorque has my full respect. Sending it with humility, honesty and facts. Very very rare in this world of RU-vid.

@marcvb3364 11 месяцев назад

Probably one of the best episodes you've done. Thanks for all these amazing insights!

@ChrisMillerCycling 11 месяцев назад

Wow, thanks!

@IanGilchrist-bi7dk 11 месяцев назад

This was the best episode yet-hands down.

@raphaeltiziani7476 11 месяцев назад

and one with joe china cycling

@SherazChoudhary 11 месяцев назад

Loved the longer format and being able to hear Alex's viewpoints on multiple topics. Alex's depth of knowledge came across even better than it does in his own channel.

@ChrisMillerCycling 11 месяцев назад

Great to hear!

@condorito93swe 11 месяцев назад

The episode we’ve all been waiting for! You guys are absolutely killing it, best pod on cycling YT.

@hiddeg7461 11 месяцев назад

Finally

@xball89 11 месяцев назад

Truth!

@abhimawa1 11 месяцев назад

Interesting discussion. As an F1 analyst, Ive bern struggling to understand this ‘aero’ issue, all of sudden bike manufacturers, and especially many cycling enthusiasts I met on the road becoming aero experts. In F1, even big names like Scuderia Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren DO make mistakes in understanding aero. Those teams have enormous budget & state-of-the-art wind tunnels & R&D by reputable engineering teams. Not to mention carbon layup, where to make it stiff & where to ‘cheat’ (heard of flexi wing?). This is a very good video with substantial discussion 👍 The real reason enthusiasts want aero bikes is because aero bikes are neat looking.

@NikeonaBike 11 месяцев назад

Correct, fact of the matter is, wearing a pair of $25 aero socks reduces drag by more than the SL8 Roval stem and bar combo, but people want the bike anyway because its prestigious.

@oldguyandabike 11 месяцев назад

Excellent. You guys keep raising the bar on vid podcasts that are worth watching.

@ChrisMillerCycling 11 месяцев назад

Glad you enjoy it!

@oldguyandabike 11 месяцев назад

@@ChrisMillerCycling Very impressed with the 'common man' application from PT. He is only the second guy I have heard mention the 'stacked springs' idea on a bike and that things are too stiff most of the time. I have a saying that I think applies to most situations and most people riding a bike: "Smoother is faster". I do a lot of gravel riding, often on review bikes, carbon wheels, etc, and that really is a case where compliance is nearly always faster overall. And I am just now planning a new road bike build and contemplating 32s and a shallow carbon wheel for road. For where I live and how I ride, I think it is a smart choice, but I keep getting distracted by the 'shiny rocks' that modern bike marketing tosses out. We shall see. Thanks for the food for thought.

@pantster9855 11 месяцев назад

Thank God someone has finally pointed out that aero savings in the bunch is basically zero. Imagine all those pros choosing the aero bike and sitting in the bunch all day. Thanks TP

@BreakawayB 11 месяцев назад

🔥These RU-vidr collaborations are always the best episodes.

@nockee 11 месяцев назад

Great work pulling in Peak Torque. Such good information.

@ChrisMillerCycling 11 месяцев назад

Glad it was helpful!

@jasonmurphy5780 11 месяцев назад

Great episode gentlemen; easily in the top 5 of all-time for the Nero Show. Recommend at least quarterly collaborations with PT. I’m personally a big fan of PT as well. I think your approaches to subjects relating with our sport are complimentary. Presents a very researched approach & useful contrast to questionable industry directions. Again, very solid episode! Cheers!

@ChrisMillerCycling 11 месяцев назад

Great suggestion!

@HoldenDoesBikeStuff 11 месяцев назад

Great episode boys! Well done. Learned a lot about my own BS a few times in this. I gotta stop being a cycling diva lol

@whackachangchangable 11 месяцев назад

I'd love for you to dive into your hefron park data set and see if the speed has changed over the years. If everyone else has swapped from round tube bikes to aero rigs over the last 10 years then maybe everyone is still pushing the same power as always, but the pack is going a little bit faster? Rather than expecting Chris's watts to drop as if he's in isolation and the only one on a faster bike. Potentially the same reason why pro races have gotten a bit quicker over the last 5ish years.

@neilashton9459 11 месяцев назад

I had the same thought listening to this. And to measure if a bike is “faster” the power input would have to be a controlled constant.

@neilashton9459 11 месяцев назад

Love the show but wish Jessi would fix his camera. The image is always reversed in the split screen shots ( but correct inthe solo shots).

@mitchlabrador 11 месяцев назад

This was one of you best! Such an interesting conversation. Thanks guys.

@philipk4475 11 месяцев назад

Edit: great video! loved it, what a star line-up of guests you've got on here Additional comment: The Hefron Park analysis has a faulty premise. CMiller is able to do 305 W normalized for the race, and with a faster bike he's just going to be going faster for that same power. His placings might not have improved much (if at all), because his competition will have also been slowly upgrading to more aero bikes (presumably). What I'd like to see whether the average speed of these races has tended to increase over the years, because with constant normalized power that would be indicative of aerodynamics having improved overall.

@rskng 11 месяцев назад

This show seriously needs a disclaimer of “we’re just guessing but try to keep it entertaining”.

@SinPhi666 11 месяцев назад

I think a good example of a large rider who focused on system aero was Adam Hansen. He would ride the Helium over the Noah with negative stem, wild drop to the 38cm bars all to get low and narrow. Did have the 35mm bars for stiffness/weight (sponsor), imagine that would be integrated now if it could be had with the negative stem.

@CrabgrassFarmer 11 месяцев назад

So good to have PeakTorque on the show. Great job! This was the bomb!

@FaiscaaaH 11 месяцев назад

I hope you guys paid attention, "smaller, slimmer the front tire the faster you go" the rest is pure marketing :P I am still using my 23mm oldddddd continental GP4000 until they rot, after that i will test the GP5000 TR like Alex told us to do :)

@danielfrancis6900 11 месяцев назад

Great content! Best video yet. Excellent questions and discussion. It’d be great to see Peak in the regular rotation of guests.

@tomasberka2124 11 месяцев назад

Simply and incredibly - this was awesome, guys. Could listen to you all for 8 hours...easily. So much learned, explained, discussed. Please make a follow-up or next episode with Alex in the future, if you can. Will be waiting for it.

@Ghostina1 11 месяцев назад

On of the best shows i have seen in this channel! Peak Torque is elevating yours in Galaxies

@HoldenDoesBikeStuff 11 месяцев назад

Lol y’all are 100% talking about me with the whole “But tbis is made specifically for this frame!” *Looks over at my Reserve Wheel and Soloist*

@fritz324 11 месяцев назад

Awesome episode! Keep up the great work, it's always the one video of the week I'm looking forward to

@ChrisMillerCycling 11 месяцев назад

Glad you enjoy it!

@cyc00000 11 месяцев назад

One of the best editions so far fellas. Thanks!

@p504504 11 месяцев назад

Listened to the podcast but came here to comment: this is one of the best if not the very best episode of any cycling related podcasts I have ever heard... Up there with the early Silca (Josh) marginal gains episodes. So much free game from a guy with a lot of knowledge. ❤ I love you Nero Show keep up the good work!!!

@seligseligabc123 10 месяцев назад

Bloody heck I don’t remember a more engrossing informative discussion as this one in a long time. Spot on..🎉.

@mikelogan2684 11 месяцев назад

BEST SHOW so far Thanks PT,JC and CM

@johnnydarko8031 11 месяцев назад

you guys continually get the best guests RU-vid has to offer. Officially THE BEST cycling podcast EVER. Kudos.

@kurtleitch5240 11 месяцев назад

Great guests coming on guys. Nice work, keep it coming!

@CycoWarriorx 11 месяцев назад

I enjoyed this discussion… probably one of the best you’ve done… I hope you have Alex on again…. 🍻

@ChrisMillerCycling 11 месяцев назад

I hope so too!

@96golfcl 11 месяцев назад

Could listen to Alex talk bikes & relevant engineering practices all day. Stellar guest

@mrwezbo 11 месяцев назад

Supurb job Chris with the show in general, but also the top-tier lineup of guests you've managed to get on recently. Shows the respect the youtube cycling crowd is showing the Nero show.

@ChrisMillerCycling 11 месяцев назад

We have been very lucky have these guys reaching out and keen to be apart of the show. Alex is a pure gent

@KikouLOL6702 11 месяцев назад

Thank you for this episode. I really enjoy the coversationnal yet educationnal style.

@BurntToast1 11 месяцев назад

Well done gents, fantastic chat. Appreciate the editing effort, Chris - I imagine it’s not easy to achieve with the timing lag when chatting between continents, but you were able to edit that brilliantly. Also, Alex does know his audience.. winspace hyper wheels rider here 😂

@ChrisMillerCycling 11 месяцев назад

Hey BT, thanks for the kind words on the edit, I can confirm the lagging was ‘challenging’ 😉

@psnSupergrobi10 11 месяцев назад

Great episode! This has become probably my fav cycling podcast in the last few weeks

@ChrisMillerCycling 11 месяцев назад

Glad you enjoy it!

@romankarabutin3781 11 месяцев назад

Awesome job guys🔥 it was a joy to watch! Keep on the good work👍🏼

@highfived 11 месяцев назад

My father has been working with carbon as a engineer for years all this bikes are extremely overpriced. Plus I know two bike owners who tell me what that bikes cost to Make and the crazy mark up sale prices in bike stores. I get this information as I work in finance for one of biggest banks in the world. The whole industry is a rip off. The only way the prices will come down is if consumers refuse to pay this ridiculous prices

@larryt.atcycleitalia5786 11 месяцев назад

"...will come down is if consumers refuse to pay this ridiculous prices" And that will only happen if somehow marketing bullspeak stops working. PT Barnum was right! Marketing trumps everything - how else can you explain the success of Specialized and SRAM?

@andrewdoig4034 11 месяцев назад

Best and most compelling one yet. Thanks for putting this together.

@ccuebas19 11 месяцев назад

Loved this one! Thanks guys!

@charlesmansplaining 11 месяцев назад

I am generally one of those commenters that piss on every video I watch about bikes and tech, but I never have had the urge to be negative from watching Peak Torque, Hambini, or this channel. You guys are top rated IMO and this video was very captive and interesting for me. A lot of what was talked about in this video are things I have been saying for years and have been put down for for saying. It doesn't bother me because I have been cycling longer than most cyclists are of age. One thing I did listen to was the Italian idea of cycling comment and I totally found funny because I don't feel the Italians are all things good or do it the best anymore and people who think they do are fools. Italian bikes ones especially Colnago aren't any better than a cheap Chinese brand anymore. Great video, loved watching it.

@ChrisMillerCycling 11 месяцев назад

Thanks for that Charles. We were lucky to have PT spend as much time with is. Thanks for the positive comment 🙏🏼

@lukasschlieker383 11 месяцев назад

Forgot to commend last week but just wanted to say the bikeotic channel is awesome and I’m glad he got a shoutout!

@Fresh79999 11 месяцев назад

Alex is just someone I could listen to for days. Clever guy.

@martinkroutil 11 месяцев назад

Excellent stuff and amazing info. I could listen to you three guys all day just geek out about bikes.

@ChrisMillerCycling 11 месяцев назад

Glad you enjoy it!

@AleBrex 11 месяцев назад

Was waiting a long time for this one! Super interesting conversation. Hope PT can hop in again soon!

@user-wd8qm5hl8l 11 месяцев назад

I quite like PT in this format. Definitely one of the best episodes so far. Would love to hear Bikotic on the show and listen to Chris and Jesse pick his brain on frame geometry and western brands that are sharing moulds.

@global_nomad. 11 месяцев назад

started watching but didnt think i'd stick for 90mins...and here I am at the end...great conversation, thanks to all....PS my University lectures are rambling observations too...but with solid knowledge and experience 😉

@philipk4475 11 месяцев назад

@PeakTorque I believe you misunderstood the analysis WRT the venge vias. It was 2 mins faster compared to what it replaced (Specialized Tarmac SL5 I believe). Then the venge was a smidge faster and the SL8 is claimed to be a smidge faster still. That's all with respect to the SL5 Tarmac, not the venge vias.

@jhl5303 11 месяцев назад

Very interesting, especially since you got in really deep in some subjects. What i like the most about you is that you don't repeat the mainstream marketing crap many goes on and contributing to creating a mutual agreed truth about stuff without questioning.

@johnsfulton 11 месяцев назад

Great show, fantastic debate on the bike industry and the mechanics of the bike.

@ricardostao 11 месяцев назад

Solid episode, awesome. thanks guys!

@MichaelBoogerd 9 месяцев назад

I found this channel couple of years ago through Jesse's training videos and enjoyed the content as Nero Racing Team trying to crack Europe - but the re-branding to a chatshow/topical podcast style channel has me staying on waiting for every video. Great show guys!

@ChrisMillerCycling 9 месяцев назад

Awesome, thank you!

@db613 11 месяцев назад

We all love Alex! 👍🤙

@greg4318 11 месяцев назад

Congrats - the channel has come of age, get Hambini on next 😬😬😬

@JbRRR 11 месяцев назад

Thanks for this content, really great stuff !

@volkervoit 11 месяцев назад

Awesome video and discussions, one of my favorite ones in past months 👍opposing to Jesse's recommendation I actually did a 740km / 25h non-stop ride on my Hyper 65mm wheels and survived 🙂

@elchram 11 месяцев назад

Yeah no problem with mine either but I ride on smooth Swiss Tarmac so 🤷🏻‍♂️

@nigelsmith4403 11 месяцев назад

Great episode there guys, so may interesting topics - bit like a myth busters show, with a true subject matter expert! You have set the bar extremely high for yourselves now.....

@Hambini 11 месяцев назад

Me: 2 RU-vid influencers find peak torque more attractive than me. Hairdresser: They must be men!!!

@bykr2009 11 месяцев назад

Wow, one of your best shows ever. Very informative and you guys asked some great questions.

@elchram 11 месяцев назад

Favorite episode ever! Well done guys and Alex is such a great guy I could listen to him for 3h

@miche_amico 11 месяцев назад

Fascinating chat! In particular, the quality control, hookless and tire width portions. And hearing Ganna's power data doesn't mean anything to me but Chris' reaction tells me what I need to know.

@ChrisMillerCycling 11 месяцев назад

Glad you enjoyed it!

@stefanozurich 11 месяцев назад

Great show. Specs thanks to @PeakTorque

@discbrakefan 11 месяцев назад

Very interesting show this week guys. Alex clearly knows his stuff. Cycling is a really awesome sport because there’s so much to it, it has a discipline to suit everyone, there’s all sorts of tech, training and fashion and things to talk about and argue over. Cycling is life.

@ChrisMillerCycling 11 месяцев назад

Glad you enjoyed it!

@gwinter00 7 месяцев назад

Hookless: thank you for confirming my suspicions. Still the best cycling talk podcast. 👏

@willemvandenbosch3992 11 месяцев назад

Hats off gents…amazing content

@danthxman 11 месяцев назад

Is it just me confused at the start of the vid? Is it not the venge spaceship with the dodgy brakes was 2 mins faster than the previous bike that was never named? So the SL8 is only 12 seconds faster than that original venge?

@the318pop 11 месяцев назад

It was the Venge Vias. It was never compared to the original Venge upon release, McLaren and Specialized carefully chose to pit it against the Tarmac.

@the318pop 11 месяцев назад

In other words, the SL8 is allegedly 33w faster than the Tarman SL4

@marshallh9 4 месяца назад

Jess Coyle may excel as a bike rider but not in the empirical sciences. As you point out, what is the original datum, a house brick!

@lisashiela9137 11 месяцев назад

Awesome video fellas. Loved the topics...

@ChrisMillerCycling 11 месяцев назад

Glad you enjoyed it!

@tomstephenson5452 11 месяцев назад

100 percent agree I have the 2018 old canyon aeroad rim brake, and I have ridden the new expensive disk brake bikes and the canyon is by far better and faster … aero, 7.0kg with ultrega di2

@deltagchemistry12 11 месяцев назад

This pod cast slaps love the Nero show

@chrismadge7292 11 месяцев назад

Another really interesting video - thank you. I leant a lot listening to that.

@andybals216 11 месяцев назад

Wow ..that was the best I've ever watched on any RU-vid video..well done

@javiermartindiez9857 11 месяцев назад

Great great great podcast, we need Alex back again. Thanks Chris and Jesse!!!!!

@hockysa 10 месяцев назад

really love and respect what Alex is saying in regards to how we can't see aero and aero testing (caveat being Adrian Newey 🐐) as well as bringing in aero packages and how they interact with the whole system including the rider. The whole aero system was also something Newey mentioned in his book how to build a racecar. Very open, critical and inquisitive engineering view.

@ExplorinDoranRBrown 11 месяцев назад

Glad you got PT on! Have him on again soon and longer! Im working through his back catalog and heard him make a reference along the lines of: This the type of thing that gets Jesse from the Nero Show all fired up. And I thought, ahh! He is aware of the boys at Nero.

@jonnythelegs2597 11 месяцев назад

This podcast scratched so many itches, great job guys. And yeah Hambini does love a bit of trolling but i have a couple of chats with him away from the youtube scene and he does come across as a sound guy to me, i dont drink but would happily have a pint or two with him. I kinda wish Mike Burrows was still around, he used to visit Bikefix a lot when i was there and had some great chats with him he was such a nice guy and i would love to put PT, Hambini, Dan Bigham, Allen Millyard and Mike Burrows in a room together and just listen to them put the world of cycling to rights and see what they could come up with. That would be my bike engineering dreamteam.

@whynotride327 11 месяцев назад

One of the best and most informative videos I have watched in a long time.

@ChrisMillerCycling 11 месяцев назад

Glad it was helpful!

@neilmckenna236 11 месяцев назад

Brilliant guys, and great to hear Alex views 👏 👍

@mikeloncoski5574 11 месяцев назад

Great again. You guys are nailing it.

@ChrisMillerCycling 11 месяцев назад

Thanks again!

@ozgurinsan 11 месяцев назад

Very good show. Love it.

@xaviermelendez2639 10 месяцев назад

Really great episode, insightful and compelling argument against all the marketing claims from manufacturers. #dontbelievethehype

@derekkuhl 6 месяцев назад

How is it that I watched for an entire 90 minutes? Very nice work guys. Very interesting and thoughtful! Thanks. I guess I will be following @peaktorque now. 😂

@edwarddruitt7521 11 месяцев назад

Yeah Im with most here, you absolutely killed this one. Great guest and you guys are clearly starting to settle into the feel of your podcast well. Had to laugh at irony of Alex telling you no one listens yo video over 10mins as you and him punch out an awesome 1:30!