Penal Substitution and the Orthodox Church 

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Incredibly well edited and presented. Great job Serro. More like this

PSA works as an analogy or as a piece of grasping after explanation of the Mystery. But as the central frame it becomes monstrous.

As a PSA observer, I’d say. The bulk of if not all what you presented is I adhere to. Penal = punishment/penalty for sin Substitution = in our place Atonement = true death and resurrection, Christ made us right before the Father through His blood.

This made my eyes well up with tears. Gods love for us is unfathomable. Thank you for this beautiful presentstion brother. May God continue to use you as an instrument of his boundless love for mankind.

Wow... Another fantastic, theologically rich presentation. Please keep this up Seraphim. Grace and peace. ☦️

no one connects all the dots in such a smooth way as you do. Keep up the good work, Seraphim.

Tim Patitsas in a recent interview on Protecting the Veil said that the first time he saw Saint (then father) Sarphony, he laughed in his heart and thought "so that's what a real human being looks like" this video explains this so clearly. Amazing work!

This is exactly what I’ve been looking for.

the editing go brazy. good video

Thank you for the video Seraphim !

Beautifully done! Thank you!

Looking forward to this conversation!

Wow - awesome job. Short, sharp & to the point!

Excellent material. Thanks for posting.

Epic presentation and giving understanding as always! Keep it up! ❤

Love the new style! ☦️🔥🔥

Outro ad music is my priest singing !

The graphics on your channel are great!

This was great! Thank you!

Liking the new style

Really good!🙏✝️

Great video and edeting

This is very well-made! Can we expect the same quality of presentation from your paid courses, with all the visual aids? Thanks.

LOVED THIS. And I am a die hard Protestant

Bro is killing it

I think that "vicarious atonement" is a suitable phrase that's come up in a few places, that covers what's in the Prophets and NT. St Athanasius and some other Church Fathers use a term "anti-psychon" to mean like "life-for-a-life (or for many lives)"

If you listen to it on 3/4 speed, he sounds like Mt. Kalistos ware without the Oxford accent.

Are you planning to make a video about St. Cyril and how his teaching is consistent with the council of Chalcedon?

Amen to everything said but Romans 3 which talks about the doctrine of atonement was left out.

I know this is off topic, but what happened to your old icons video? I know that the text is on your blog, but it's nice to have something short to send to people that they could listen to.

Great video, would you please recommend a good book on this topic Thank you

I missed the contrast between the two views. The video just ended without getting back to the issue.

I appreciate the content of this video but I found it a bit hard to follow at times because of the background music.

@Seraphim-Hamilton can I get a transcript of this?

I think we overthink atonement. Jesus took on the consequence of death and defeated it. This is the physical aspect. Further, due to His obedience unto death to defeat death, He made amends for our disobedience. This is the spiritual/relational aspect.

Hello Seraphim, I would appreciate some clarification on when you stated “the relation which binds him eternally as Son to the Father flows into that suffering”. Maybe I just didn’t catch it, but are you saying that the Father actually abandoned the son? Just as the disciples abandoned him?

The lynch pin is the point you made in the beginning: all of the legal analogies are meant to map on to natural realities. This is somewhat like C.S. Lewis' portrayal of the atonement in the chronicles of narnia. Many have mistakenly thought that Aslan's sacrifice at the hand of the Witch reflects a ransom view of the atonement. But Aslan is not appeasing the Witch, he is appeasing the "deep magic," which is not a set of laws extrinsically imposed on the world but the invisible reality on which the world is constituted and structured. Nevertheless (and again, this is the important point), Aslan knows the deep magic because he "wrote" it according to his own nature, and so legal analogies are appropriate. God is judge, sin is trespass, Christ propitiates, righteousness is imputed, the guilty justified... all of this points to the deep magic "written" into the very life of the cosmos. Note that to "write" is to carve, shape, fashion, not merely to declare propositionally. Anyway, great video.

Nice talk. There is no "judgment" without the Incarnation. The passions are twisted by death, those who live according to those twists, will be left with nothing, but to gnash their teeth when Christ extrapolates death from the world.

It's a very interesting subject, but is there a way to listen to it without chanting in the background? I am starting the video over and over being able to follow the thought only to the one third of the video and then I'm losing narration because of the loud chanting in the background. I spent 40 minutes already trying to listen to the end of a 13 minutes video and haven't succeeded yet. It's very frustrating. I don't know how it's even possible to listen to several voices simultaneously some of whom are chanting and some of whom are speaking at approximately the same volume... I guess my brain can't decide what channel of information to follow

Hi! Who are the early church fathers? Can anyone name them please?

People forget that civil lawcourts (as distinguished from criminal law courts) serve a different purpose than punishment - they are meant to bring about restitution by restoring the injured party to their previous position before the wrongful or negligent action. God's judgement of death against mankind was pronounced in order to restore all of creation to it's previous position of harmony and communion with Him. In sin, man is in emnity with God. In our pride and self-will we position ourselves, like Satan, in opposition to the one who sustains all of the cosmos in its existence and knitted us together in our in-most being. This enmity with God will necessarily bring about our dissolution, like we can imagine being in opposition to your own soul or the atoms in your body would.

So how do you understand the punishment of the dammed soul? Are they going to burn in a real fire and where are they going to live if they are not enjoying the new creation with the redeemed Christian’s?

Greetings. I am of the position of Christus Victor. I dare not totally deny the idea of "penal substitution" although I am quite inclined to view it with a lot of negative prejudice. Now, I'll leave you with an explanation. We could say that when they unjustly accused Christ of violating the law and then unjustly condemned him that he was assuming a guilt that was not his in favor of us to fulfill the penalty of the law. He dies not suffering the eternal wrath of God but suffering punishment at the hands of the executioners and in this way he not only defeats the evil powers but when he resurrects, all those who are in union with him are justified because in Christ the punishment was fulfilled. . Christ did it in the name of his people. What do you think about this?

Question. What is ontologically different between pre fall eternal life and post Resurrection eternal life in the sense of our partaking in the Divine nature. Do we partake more fully in the eschaton than Adam did in the garden etc. I assume yes, being that the Word became flesh. But how so? It seems that human nature is on a trajectory far higher than pre fall Adam…but how is the “eternal life” aspect different I have thoughts. Curious what yours are.

What is lacking here is that there seems to be no forgiveness of sins at play in any step of the orthodox view of Jesus Christ's sacrificial death and resurrection. If not that, what is the source of forgiveness of sins according to orthodox theology? Or is there no need for that when we become in union with the life of Christ? The Bible and there Jesus and the apostles are very clear about the necessity of forgiveness of sins.

The Patristics refer to sacrifice & atonement, but (like you said) it isn't the same as protestant PSA, The term itself was offered through the Protestant Reformation inextricably packaged-in with Sola Fide-- Why, then, use the same term yet tweak the context & definition? Though I am one myself, I do not understand many converts' fixation with PSA -- not the sacrifice & atonement but PSA by name specifically -- & trying to paint it as fully Orthodox by ignoring the term's history.

Is anthropological trichotomy not an essential tenet of Eastern Orthodoxy (4:45)? If humans share a single human nature like the members of the Trinity (7:15), how is it that we have different wills but Trinity do not? Or do you deny that we have different wills? Do you think Adam and Eve sinned simultaneously and, if not, was the single human nature corrupted at the same time the other first sinned? Where does Scripture speak of all men without exception being raised to *glorified,* physical bodies (7:30)? Romans 8-9 (which you mention) seem to make it clear only the children of God and vessels of glory are prepared for glorification. When you say nature and personhood is ruptured, I assume you don't mean to suggest that you consider the damned are no longer human (9:15). So can you elaborate on the rupture? The habit of life which we live by God's power and operation (9:30) surely can't mean to suggest monoenergism. How is it, do you think, that saints can be assured that they will never choose to forsake God after the final judgment? In these questions above, I'm just seeking clarification. In the next two questions, unless I am misunderstanding you, there are more obvious difficulties in trying to harmonize penal substitution with Eastern Orthodoxy: If you think Jesus tasted the penalty of sin for all men [without exception] (as I think you are intimating you would interpret Hebrews 2 at 9:45), how is it just for the damned to nevertheless experience the same penalty? You mention that in the garden of Eden, Adam and Eve experience alienation "from each other" (9:55ff.). Surely the principal alienation they experience is alienation *from God*! Surely *this* is the death of which God spoke even *prior* to Eve's creation in Genesis 2:17. Since you say Jesus participates in "the deepest experience of our alienation," does that mean you think Jesus likewise experience *this* alienation - alienation from His own Father? If so, how does this cash out?

👉 "Promosm"

TLDR no it isn’t

Answer: No, its of the devil

western theology(roman catholic and protestant) will agree with almost everything you said, but your understanding of the atonement is incomplete. The Bible does not teach that Christ atone for death but for our sins! Hebrews 9:22 says, “Indeed, under the law, almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.” Christ himself said: for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.” Matthew 26:28. So according to holy scripture we were bought by his blood, revelation 5:9-10 adds this: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals because you were slaughtered, and bought people for God by your blood from every tribe and language and people and nation, and made them a kingdom and priests to our God". Western theology will propose a more complete theology on soteriology: at the incarnation, Christ deals with original sin; on the cross, he deals with our personal sins(he atones for them); and at the resurrection, he deals with the penalty of our sins(death)