I investigate the effect of boosting on ship balance in combat UPDATE: Seeing the Chieftain's stats, it seems to have almost the same flight model as the FAS. It should benefit from permaboost in a similar fashion
Zeke Well, you are already heating up. An increase will result in yet another numbers Game. But maybe damage the engines? One can still make up some ingame Lore about engine-heat. So like 3 consecutive boosts -> 1% thrusters.
well i don't know the lore well enough but as i understand it the thrust is being vented from a fusion reaction and that at only certain speeds are you able to manuver at full (not boosting) you could frame it as the heat at higher levels of thrust can damage the maneuvering thrusters and so boosting still gives you the maneuverability but damages the maneuvering thrusters this will still leave you with a undamaged engine but will start to hurt your turning ability and they can have it so smaller ships suffer less to give them a edge thats how i'd do it anyway
Alex, you are a PVP guru of the highest order, so much respect to you. That being said, I think it's a bit early to declare the chieftain DOA when BETA is still a week and a half away. Also, I am not sure I agree with your assessment of the uniformity of boost characteristics. Some ships require 2-3 boosts to reach max speed, some ships have much more inertia regardless of size, some ships hold onto their boost speed longer, and small ships like the sidey can't even reach max speed let alone perma boost. Any change to the boost characteristics of any given ship needs to be taken into account with the whole fabric of the boost ecosystem in mind. That being said, I agree with your larger point, that boost is currently broken and makes it nearly impossible to flank any pilot that can FA/off well and permaboost. However this issue isn't specific to the Chieftain in any way shape or form. Certainly not before we know anything concrete about it's overall flight characteristics.
Ziljan Vega Very good points! I agree that boosting is a tad more ship-specific than I made out, and it is possible that the Chieftain will be strong regardless if they up its stats enough. However, I still think it's very likely that FDev won't take permaboost into account when balancing it, and thus overestimate its strengths. But you're right in that we won't know for sure until we see the ship itself
after the livestream yesterday, the Chieftain will be quite strong i think; i think she is able to permaboost herself, plus she has VERY central hardpoints (and nice but load sounds)
Another option would be to have boosting consume all engine energy and to give a proportional benefit to maneuverability while taking longer to recharge. This would allow players to build for intense bursts of speed/maneuverability or for better overall speed/maneuverability.
Beta’s out now, and I’m happy to announce the Chieftain HAS perma-boost with as little as 2.5 pips to ENG. And it drifts with the best of them, too. I have a feeling it will be a pretty useful PvP ship.
To summarise. "Engineers were a bloody silly idea, and screwed up the delicate balance that had existed in the game until then". That's the core problem.
permaboosting is not the issue tho its the ships where it gets abused on, to be honest multiple boosts after each other are not bad and they are actually making it better to play some ships, but for some occasions it is just silly, I say it is more the ship than it is the full boosting mechanic.
Being able to permaboost means nothing if you don't know how to fly your ship. This video is also premature of the highest order in that we still don't know the stats of the Chieftain. It should also be noted at the builds you posted in your video aren't the end-all be all builds. The Meta Lance build isn't all about close-quarters engagement (hence why it also has Rails). The Cannon/Focused PA FAS build was originally made to combat reverski FDLs that have LR Lasers modded. It was meant to help counter the major weakness of the FAS, which was range. A lot of people take those builds, don't know how to use them, and get their asses handed to them on a silver platter. C'mon Alex. You should know better than this.
Thank you. I think engineering mods are making balancing the game difficult in lots of ways. Bit of a Pandora's Box: lots of interesting stuff, but unpleasant consequences.
Honestly ED's boost mechanic was always a thorn in my side, even more so than the rank grinds. Sure its great to boost your speed and such, thats why pretty much any space game has some type of afterburner or boost. But ive always hated this short boost, recharge, short boost, recharge, especially with the otherwise awesome sound being repeated constantly, its like spamming some stupid buff in other games, now Permaboost, first time i saw it, i stopped playing, its like spamming movement keys to dash like in some arena shooters, a "faulty game mechanic" being abusable to the point were its just plain broken. IMHO the boost mechanic should be remade, i really would like a model based on a curved efficiency. Hit the button, short charge as now, big initial boost, but instead of cutting of it keeps boosting your ships thrust and continues to draw power as long as you hold the button, the les charge there is in your capacitor the weaker the boost effect gets. Once you release the boost button, or run out of cap charge, it goes in a cooldown/recharge based on a minimum+use-time to prevent spamming. That way you could use your boost as a still very important tool to increase your mobility for some time, but decrease in efficiency the longer you hold the button, it would not be as spammable as now while still allowing more mobility than the short 3-4 seconds, forcing you to consider when and for how long you will boost.
Yeah it does suck, as a kid ive discovered the first independence war game, flying a 180m corvette in nearly full newtonian physics with every fucking thruster being a destroyable subsystem spoiled me for life. But even that game had a speed limit lower than C aka the speed of light, 2147483,647m/S. Why? Because a 32bit integer cant go above 2147383647, and if you ever reached more than a few hundret km/s the games physics such as collisions started acting up, in one engine tick you moved more distance than any collision box in the game, you could fly thru planets. Thats one of the reasons many space games have some speed limit, the other is propably artistic choice like in case of Elite ships fighting at knife ranges, with lasers that suddenly stop at 4km instead of fighting over distances where the enemy would only be a hud marker. But yeah, Elite is really arcady with its ranges and speeds, weapons work at ludicrous short ranges, ships hit crazy low speed limits, but engineer the fuck out of your booster and you can achieve accelerations what would make your pilot black out or literaly die. Go play Independence War 2 Edge of Chaos, id love flight models like that.
Man, i am totaly on ur side on this one, i have being ranting about it on every single chance i had, for a while. Then i ecxepted elite to b the pretty, but, deeply flawd game that it is. I think having the speed limits we have, engine boost included, is fine for a game like elite. Laser cannons not exceeding more than 8 klm range? Makes no fucking sense, but, it fitts the game allright. the apsents of options to store a ship, with out moving any cargo it cyrries to the next one? makes even less sense, but, meh! What ever, The ridiculus short range of luminocity of the ship's front lights? I am good with those things. I could make a really long list of the things i believe r not done right in elite. But, why the hell slow back down to not boosted speed, after boosting? More over. Even when u subtrackt pips from the engine, the damn thing slows down accordingly. My idea is, to remove dragging back down to cruising speed entirely, replace it with greater loss of velocity, when u change the ship's angular momentum, even when u only roll to one side, when flying with boost speed. And maybe, giving the same button u use for boosting more functionality. Like, exelerate gradually, as long as u have pips in ur engine for as long as u press the button, with out making ur ship turn, any faster, and maybe only give some extra power to vertical and latteral thrusters, for as long as u press the boost button, and giving u the same bennefits we have now, minus the dicelleration. when boosting, for the same ammount of time, when double tabing the same button., According to how much power u have in the engines. For exapmle, the same boost to angular momentum, for half the time, and half of the speed when there is half of the power needed to perfom a full engine boost in the distributor. What cind of engineer would design a spacecraft that loads a bunch of fuel in a compustion chamber and then egnite it all at once, only to have the same spacecraft slow it's self back down? With out even giving the option for a partial boost? I haven't played any other space games other then eve online and elite. But, i doubt there is any other space game out there where the space ship u control slows down after reaching it's top velocity, like they do in elite. And that is a shame. ...Or, the thing where the only place u can store data, is in ur ship's internal memory, and not a single memory stick in the galaxy to copy-paste what u need... ...Weightless data, stored somewhere in ur ship, unstoreable any place else... I sould stop now. ...I visited jupietr's moon enceladus once. The same gasers cassiny photographed thousents of klm away, only a dew hundrent meters tall in elite... No, really, i sould stop now, i must walk my dog, and it is late. ...Exploration...'Nuff said... ...Who ever designed the srv, forgot to add a spot light on it's turret... It's 01;30 here, and the poor bastard hasn't peed since yesterday. ...My dog that is...
Okay the dog part was hilarious XD That aside, youd be baffled how many games make your ship slow down to none boost speeds after your boost or afterburner ends, but all those are arcade like in design anyways, for example: Every WingCommander, Freespace 1&2, Starlancer, Freelancer, Tachyon The Fringe, X Series, Rebel Galaxy, [insert other good space game here] Heck, even my current favorite space game does it, Everspace, but that game is an arcady Rogue Like 1st/3rd person space fighter game with a mixture or classic and newtonian flight models, its made to be arcady and does so in a very good and fun ways... and those visuals, dont go take a look or your dog will die from a bladder explosion. Joke aside, but even in Everspace you can Boost as long as you have the energy to do so, even if that boost has a speed cap too, its so fucking fun to boost circle an enemy.
I wasn't kidding, the dog has to walk. How ever he is sleeping at the moment, so, i have the time to reply. As i said, eve on line is the only other space game i played. The reason of that being, all of the games u mentioned r too arcady for my taste. The very first thing i did when i flew out the station i was spawned in a sidewider after checking turning rates was to boost, and see how fast i could go. when the thing slowed back down, i was a bit comfused, so, i tried that again, with fa off, after the same thing happent, i thought it was a bug. So, yeah.. U r absolutely right. I am buffled. Imagine how much better this game would b, if. The button u press for engine boost would give u more than just 3.5 secs of traveling at top speed. I could go in to detail, but. it is pointless. I think what i would really like to see would b, something like evochron legacy with elite's graphics... That r not that great. But, elite is the only game of it's cind that i know of. ...Now i go walk the dog:)
I enjoy the chief alot and it seems to be fine in pve, but thats just my own observation and opinion. im sure others will have differing opinions of the ship and thats alright.
Who cares, this is actually pretty awesome (if you do PVP). I also think that FD should add afterburners to travel longer distances... *WARNING, THIS STATEMENT IS GOING TO PISS OFF MANY IF NOT ALL ED FANBOYS* They should add afterburners like in Star Citizen, so we can explore planet surfaces much faster.
So basically, people keep LYING to me. I was told engineering everything was not going to be required for PVP. I was told my Vulture could use it's mobility to out-play the likes of FDL's. This explains why I keep finding myself completely outmaneuvered by said ships and have to this day NEVER won a fight with them, mostly because it's impossible to get out of their main fire arcs and try to out-maneuver them. I've currently been scraping up the money to A-grade a Python and get it ready for PVP, thinking it would be better to simply have a bigger, more tanky ship, if I'm going to get hit anyway, I might as well have a ship able to take it, right? Well, so much for that. I can see how this permaboosting cancer will force me to either A) become a part of said cancer or B) play solo and do my own thing until one day, maybe perma boost dies the agonizing death it deserves. I sure as hell don't want play with people who have better armed, armored, AND more mobile ships than me. I had hoped to have at least ONE advantage I could rely on. Not so much, it seems.
i will buy the chieftain the moment it comes out. and probably the krait aswell. i think we can all argue we want fresh things. wheter it be ships, missions... or any content for that matter. and as a pve player for the most part, i couldnt care less. i like permaboosting to be perfectly honest with you. :) on the subject of permaboosting, i always wondered why we dont overheat. consecutive boosts generate more heat. like first boost 10% heat. 2nd boost 12% heat. 3rd boost 15% heat. 4th boost 20% heat. 5th boost 30% heat. 6th boost 40% heat. (im just pulling numbers out my... but you catch my drift)
I think that removing the maneuver bonuses would do the trick. Explaining that during boost all power is directed exclusively to your main engines. Leaving you with minimal power to pitch,yaw,roll until the boost is spent. Should be a easy fix as well. As explained in the video. The permaboost has limited player choice in what ship(s) are a viable choice in a pvp setting. Fundamentally speaking then this is game breaking and should be addressed by the devs.
I typically subscribe to the method of buffing lagging aspects instead of nerfing overpowered parts of games (when the disparity is not extreme). I think a few well placed buffs would be better than a direct nerf to boosting related aspects, whether it's a buff to out of boost speeds and maneuverability or just a buff to specific ships in general. That said, a nerf to maneuverability (or heat, maybe) in boost probably wouldn't be that bad of an idea. But generally, it sucks to go from a quick, exciting play style to a slower one. That's not to say that a slower gameplay being forced onto the players wouldn't be balanced or be easier to balance. I just think that making it so that more approaches, including slower styles, are viable will improve the game for more people. TL;DR What about buffing other aspects of combat more than the boosting feature gets nerfed?
Some well thought out points but there will ALWAYS be some meta that people aren't happy with, always. FDL and FAS were top PVP ships long before engineers. Permaboost = Permafun, after all it is a game... (just an opinion)
Honestly I don’t expect the Chieftain to be super good at combat. Who knows maybe it will be able to outmaneuver the FDL if properly engineered. I do agree though that permaboost needs to be fixed or reworked. Maybe fast succession boosting has a small chance to damage thrusters, especially when running dirty drives?
Good video, and you have some thought out points, thankfully, i have ignored open-play ever since i got ganked by 3 clippers during my 50 first minutes of the game. Much more relaxing to play with friends instead. I'm probably gonna have a lot of fun with it when it comes out.
Please! No more HEAT suggestions ;-) As for my 2 cents, I’d recommend removal of the manoeuvrability buff during boost; just keep boost to just boost from rear thrusters only..
Now I’m pretty new. I have an A rated Chieftain (g2 dd) and an A rated Fer De Lance (no dd). I still think without dd the chieftain is better and more maneuverable and that is why I’m not really using my Fer De Lance. Any thoughts?
it wont, the FDL still got a far bigger turn radius than the FAS, the FAS is still more maneuverable and smoother, FAS is still a better brawler than the FDL. "permaboost" doesn't change anything in how ships handles nor wich one handles better, it just makes everyone faster and fights more fun. plus, it takes pips away from sys and wep, so you got to manage that more dynamically as well, overall it changed the meta, but maybe not in a bad way.
Excessive boosting should damage thrusters in order to discourage these kinds of builds. You could still boost like a crazy person, but at least everyone would know you're crazy for doing it because it's going to blow out those thrusters if you do it too much in too short a period of time. Implementing a system that puts your thrusters at risk of damage and failure for abusing them would be a nice way to rebalance combat. Your thrusters should have their own heat gauge, heat that you can't dump with a heatsink. If you boost while the engines are still glowing hot from your last boost you damage them, and the more damaged they are the greater the risk that they'll blow out completely. It would turn these godly permaboost builds that basically break the game balance into suicidal builds. It wouldn't stop people from puling crazy boost maneuvers once in a while. They just couldn't spend 75% of combat boosting anymore.
The engine boost thing we have now makes no god damn sence. Remove dicellerating after boosting, and add a game mechanic that works. I would b fine if, they would add multyfuncionality to the boost button, depending if u press or, double tab the same button, and what is the position of the thruttle, while doing so. When thruttle is on reverse, at the very least, it sould b inactive. Helping dicellerate ship when thruttle is on reverse, by both using up power from the distributior, and heating up, i think it would b a good idea. For the sake of balance, i guess the ships sould dicelerate disportionally when changing their angular momentum, after boosting, to a digree. Or, siply add the engine boost speed to the throttle's range, and change engine boost to thruster boost, giving ur ship a burst on roll-pitch-yawn and verical latteral thrust. I would very much prefer the multyfunctional thing i discribed first. But, i am not entirely sure that would b a good idea. But, i do know for a fact the second suggestion is a way better idea then to have spaceships designed with a chamber hidden somewhere behind the main engine ecxaust, to fill it up with fuel, only to have it explode, with out even the option of a partial boost, connected to every thruster on the ship... BTW thank god for permaboost. I will uninstall the game and demand a refund if, they take that away. R u seriously nurfing ALL ships for the sake of the upcomming one is a good idea? The engine boost thing is as bad as it is. It doesn't even work if, u press and hold. Engine boost is a bad idea. It has no pla/... Oh, fuck it. the game sucks, and it is about time i move on.
completely off topic, i think boost shouldn't exist, 'd like to see is "true Newtonian physics" like the old elite 2: new frontier.. so if you want to, speed up to till light speed.. i miss them types of battles where you have to balance your speed and jousting at 0.3c.. then trying to creep up to cargo whilst your moving at 0.3c too
Peresonally, I think boost should have a negative effect on everything except top speed. Your maneuverability should go in the tank when you boost--making it simply a way to gain some distance, not enhance flight characteristics.
i wish this was a video made by someone at frontier - that would assure me they were going to change something. have you considered putting this on the official forum, reddit, everywhere..? maybe they'll think about it. i've had this "even" thing in my head for a long time now, but i just couldn't define precisely what it was - thanks for opening my eyes, cmdr o7
I think most people saying that we don't know what stats of chieftain will be completely miss the point of the video which is that permaboost is broken and breaks the game. Vulture should not be out turned by FDL. I think a lot ships behave not how frontier imagined them. Like for example FDL , hard point placements and it's speed with bad turnrates would suggest it is a ship that charges at you unleashes it's whole frontal damage and flies straight by you to come back for a second run. On top of this it would be nice if frontier would implement different shield strenght for different direction that you could play around with. But all in all, ships fly way too similar to each other some varation is needed.
You could alleviate a lot of these problems by introducing an inertia mechanic to the game. Your ship would still be just as maneuverable, but you couldn't go juking all over the place without redding or blacking out. It would change the way you would have to approach combat. Just like real life.
It would more like balance the chieftain out. As i know mine, it turns stupidly well. It also can boost evety 2 seconds without engineering. So having every other ship buffed like that, pretry much puts chieftains rivals more on part with chieftain itself.
It's almost like FDev didn't consider balance to PvP when pushing Engineers forward which is in my opinion the single worst expansion that's ever been released for a multiplayer game.
Reason for the slow down post boost the same as why it doesn't take you years to fly to the planets. Always amused that people complain about motion being too slow to be physical in elite when you spend far more time flying at unphysically high velocities:-)! All in all makes for a great sci-fi game with as few "lies" as possible:-)!
I’ve heard through the grape vine that boosting to much will actually damage your ship. Makes sense though, by running your ship at 100% your bound to burn up something in your engine.
How about boost increase the heat levels of your ship making is so extended booster use to result in heat damage to make it feel like that you push your ship to its limits or increase the fuel requirement of the engines when boosting like real fighters ....where you cant just use a lot of afterbrunders or you will run out of fuel how about that ?
Just counter maneuverability for larger ships my giving them accurate AI turrets. Give the bigger ships more powerful turreted weapons than smaller ships can access as well. It introduces a different play style and hard counters pilots that like to dance circles around you. Think of it like the beam arrays in Star Trek Online. Broad firing arcs compensate for slow turn rates and meta beam boats almost negate the need to maneuver outright. Almost. The down side is that it isn't as fun for some people as being strapped to the nose of a bullet.
4th option get rid of boost all together, Ship performance should be dependant on heat management (which has been an interesting yet underused mechanic in my opinion) accessing the upper performance limits of your vessel should be a skillful endeavour of balancing engine output/weapons system etc. It would also make heat-sinks more useful as a method of keeping your ship in one piece as you do a runner from a hot situation. Sure fly like a madmman if you want but prepare to cook your ship like an omelette
Id say it would be cool if there was a selection of type of boosting. Such as a ship modification for boosting laterally rather than forward. While another pilot might make his boosters Horizontally. I mean this is space why are we treating the ships like planes.
doesn't matter what you do or what changes you make, the ships are all gonna be unbalanced. they'll always be unbalanced, and the fact you've yet to learn that despite all the 'balancing' changes made to the game leaving the ships even more unbalanced is depressing. if they do what you recommend players will find another exploit to exploit and find a new ship and loadout that'll be completely unfair to all the others.
What about adding an Aim Shake while boosting? That is not the ideal solution, but it would force pilots to reduce the boosting to properly shoot at their target. And given the forces unleashed from the rear of your ship it vertainly makes sense.
permaboost isn't that much of an issue, you pointed out yourself that the base rates are increased during boost, so if they're boosting you boost as well and use a combination of fa-off and boost bleeding to keep ToT while out-maneuvering the less agile target.
ALEX how do u train, I am a Python driver, with plasma acc and beams laser. This work best for me. But I want to train on my maneuvers and depend on my shields less. When do you hit your boosters button. Before the turn , in the turn . When.
And also.. the Chieftain has comparable stats to the stock fas looking at that video, thats gonna suck? LOL, so long as it isnt out of breath on a boost like the vulture in two seconds it'll be the new pvp meta, it has all the right hardpoints for making use of all the decent effects and doesnt look slow as piss either, personally i reckon it'll be shit fuckin hot
People are idiots. Gosh don't you guys know that once a gaming company gets on the nerf train they don't stop? Stop suggesting nerfing .. its toxic and stop bashing the game.
Perhaps on the ships where permaboost is possible, increase the penalties to systems or weapons when both the engines have 3 or more pips, and the engine section of the capacitor is depleted from constant boosting. Then at least there is still a trade-off for having extra speed available.
Just more proof that Frontier designed this combat system in a similar way to how the creators of Lost wrote their story: Flying by the seats of their pants, no plans in sight.
Does this apply to big ships? From my experience, an anaconda can more than keep up with a corvette in a turn 'n burn style fight making 90% of my fights boil down to tank/resilience and firepower. The other 10% being smaller ships below my weight class, and due to their comparably lower firepower they take too long to kill a properly engineered and maintained tank that will at some point get shots in(assuming no turrets otherwise it'd just be a pure waiting game of just rolling to give the highest yield turrets a firing arc(I've been the small ship). This usually causes them re-prioritize PIPs from engines to some form of damage mitigation, unfortunately making them easier targets... It is reasonable to conclude that on a non-largescale craft this hold true... in fact there is no real conjecture. However, if you made it this far through my comment you hopefully understand where I am coming from: Does this even matter/apply to a large ship? or is my build just that nasty and none of this makes sense without seeing it? Loved the video!
I chose to focus on medium ships for this video as they compete more directly with the Chieftain. But I would say that this is an issue for large ships. However, it is less of an issue than with medium ships as in general large ships benefit from boosting less due to their relatively low speed, and when fighting small ships tend to boost infrequently anyway (outside from perhaps the Corvette)
As already stated here, an easy fix would be for boost to generate more heat. If you wanna use it constantly, you'll eat through your heat sinks in no time, and then you won't be able to do it anymore. Unless you sacrifice k-scanners, shield boosters, chaff etc for more heat sinks, but then that would be a disadvantage in itself, so... Waddaya think?
this is more a rant man I don't see this as a huge problem the ships that show this problem are the problem themselves not the boosting, its the ships not the boost.
Aboyne16303011 and another shit attitude. What is wrong with the Elite community? Shit like this is why most people spend less than 5 total hours playing Elite. You never want it to improve from the boring, badly designed grind fest that it currently is.
Meta-fighting ganking clogging shitfest is so enjoying isnt it. Not to mention that PVP in ED basically REQUIRES "boring, badly designed grind fest". How else do you get your 1k rolls on your Vette/Cutter/Conda? Besides, nice hipocrisy, calling me out for "shit attitude" and then proceeding to shit on me, the game and entire ED community. Like, sir, have you ever looked into mirror? Furthermore, what in my comment triggered you so much? That I avoid pvp?
Dude, what are you talking about! Don’t you know that game devs, in general, never re-balance stuff right?! Stop complaining, because the devs WILL nerf it into the ground and make it worse, not better! There are plenty of other differences between ships, but many ships are similar because they’re in the same size category. This is true in real life weapons and vehicles, BTW. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. And just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s broken! Yes, higher end ships can boost constantly, but so what? They can also fire demanding weapons constantly and have god mode shields. Stop complaining before you cause devs to bring the heavy, STUPID, overbearing nerf bat!
Hey , im seeing the type-10 as only a combat ship would anyone tell me other extreme builds the type-10 can do viable as i know its based upon the type 9 does it share its long range issues ?
antwan1357 made mine into a miner. I've been able to hold my own against AI pirates so far without giving up a internal slot for a fighter bay. Not to mention not having to fork out a portion of my earnings to a pilot.
Troy Brice love your response . Ive been doing some wandering around expanding my map info . Otherwise im bounty hunting around Luyten's Star out of Ashby City in the only high resource extraction site in that solar system ... my Keelback Tank .
You know what they should do? Make boosting only affect forward thrust, no more super manueverability all the time. If you want to be maneuverable you have to go 50% ur top speed, not just boost all the time. This would fix it. I don't want them to put hard caps that would just be lame as it would make efficient ships pointless.
The entirety of the fun comes from manueverability, What makes typeX obsolete pointless junk!! Conda is all round better ship and most probably had this ship anyway. GIT-GUD with FA OFF!! actually try changing your deadzones and learn to fly than crying and blaming everything but yourselves 😆👏👏👏👍
TestTheAcid I'm actually not bad with FA off. the point is that people have reached the hard cap on boosting through engineering, so boosting constantly is a viable option. The stock agility of a craft doesn't matter anymore, making a lot of ships too similar. It's not about gitting gud, it's about balancing the game to make it more diverse and interesting
I understand where you are coming from, and I'm curious if a different approach was taken to curb permaboost; what if boosting in general caused damage to your engines because it does push them to the limit? Not a lot of damage, but just enough so that longer engagements at the upper limits of handling end taking a toll on your craft. The reason I say this is because I also enjoy permaboosting around stations and asteroids. Maybe putting such an incredible amount of stress on your ship also has other consequences such as depleting your hull integrity too.
NinjaMasterGuy so what are you thinking every time you boost 1% damage to your engines? Or zero damage if your boost is cool and say 5% if you are continually hot boosting?
Troy Brice , I think that the 5% hot boosting damage may be a better option overall. Although it may more complicated to balance for, I think it would also make everyone think more about when it is most advantageous to hot-boost/permaboost.
very well put, but the game mechanics and the ships in the game was meant to be in faon most of the time 90% now we have permanent faoff which use permaboost to change direction k/m is also the king so you can use and control the sensitive pitch/roll rate in faoff i dont think they have the guts to bring such a major change to stop the deterioration of the game
"k/m is also the king so you can use and control the sensitive pitch/roll rate in faoff " Hello, sorry to bother you but, what do you mean by this? I'm faily new to Elite and use a joystick but, are you saying here that with M/KB the sensitivity of turning is less than with a joystick in FA Off? As with a joystick turning is the the thing I feel I have little control of with a joystick in faoff, i'm always over turning and having to correct almost constantly. Does mouse use make give more control?
if you choose to be a faoff perma pilot the use of mouse for nose control with relative on in the menu will make your life (and control of your ship) extremely easier than hotas is the meta control paired with permaboost by pvp toptiers
Solid points. It also means thatt the default PvP combat weapon of choice are now PAs and rails. Some time back folks were bemoaning how much extra skill it took to use non gimbaled weapons but with perma boost its pretty obvious that it really doesn't. It also turns combat into an FPS affair whilst simultaneous throwing the flight model out of the window. As you point out, one never sees people using fixed multis or lazers anymore.. well coz that really would take skill. Overall this has also made gimbal based weapons useless considering the way chaff can be continuously fired during a fight. Very constructive vid btw. I wouldn't have been able to restrain my frustration if I'd have pointed all this out.
Maybe they could change the Boost capeability when your Hardpoints are deployed so you would still be able to fly these amazing manuvers through asterioid belts but you couldn't use it in combat anmore
I would also add charging weapon capacitors when hardpoints deployed. Charging weapons pipe when hardpoints retracted disabled. (that would make permaboost more beliveable)
Boosting should not boost all lateral thrusters, but only forward thrusters... problem solved. No more insane maneuverability through permaboost. But I'm sure lots would complain, since all ship builds had to be redone. Especially PvP builds. My theory: the "boosting boosts also maneuverability" is only still in, to not piss of the PvP players especially. Since PvE it's of minor interest. Otherwise FDev would have kicked that out a long time ago. But just a theory...
Great vid, with some very well put arguments. I think the Chieftain will be good though (i really bloody hope its good enough to rival FDL) but you have got a good point there. And you've show me why people say Engineers is broken and gamebreaking.
wow you got really butthurt about me being better than you scrubs, i guess there is one of your salty comments by every one of mine😆👏👏👍 pathetic triggered scrub
You should do more commentary and informative videos about Elite Dangerous, your explanation and presentation is outstanding. (I admit much better than obsidianant's accent :)
I disagree man, id say having access to perma boost adds a lot to combat and the little ones are faster and more manuverable anyways, people can either fly or not, there are still masssive differences between ships even with perma boost, in fact using FA off AND fixed weapons effectively (when youre not using a mouse and keyboard i might add!) is very difficult to master, in the sense of your positioning relative to your targeting, your opponents targeting and their position and blindspots, not to mention the inerta rates for each ship and how well they hold thier boost, for instance the vulture is out of breath on a boost in no time at all and wont carry its momentum, whereas the fdl does in both senses. To consistently chain together all these things is very very hard to master, it takes alot of time to be applied properly. You can still kill the bigger "meta" combat builds in the viper, its just a different style of flight accounting for the boost delay, yeah its harder than the ease of flying one of the bigger boys but its a lot more fun, sounds to me you've spent too long in the fdl and gotten soft my friend ;)
Permaboot is imbal if you use a mouse an keyboard and all the other assists PC folks use yeah, not when you use a pad or a hotas with your arm/hands insted of using a centre-lock add on.
this is another case of bad desing on FDev's part. but again this is comming from the guys who made the enginieers, and thought that making modifications be mainly stat upgrades, while the actual wanted feature, the one that ADDs to the core gameplay, the special effects, was thrown as an afterthought gimmick with little effect compared to the completly absurd boosts of the stat increases, and thought that this was a good idea.
Great video, very insightful!! See, we were right when we called you 'the legendary Alexander the Grape'. Nice to see some WoW members in your video too. I think I'm going to be boosting around the station tonight just to test out permaboost 😉
