The Doctor's weapon, looking like forceps is actually another grim fact, those kinds of forceps are known for helping mothers to give birth if the baby is stuck coming out of the way, so they use the forceps to grab the babies head and pull it out. And the grim fact comes in when you know the fact that most of these forceps births lead to defects, stunned growths, disabilities and the baby more likely to die. This might either imply more info that the doctor was incompetent and lead to Rie's death or this was how she was born and it lead to her sickly condition, I lean to the former personally.
That theory of the Queen Of Hearts representing Rei's mother... It makes me wonder if she is still alive during the present time, and if maybe she regrets the way she treated her own daughter. Also, your commentary on the last night of the Inaba Pride Exhibit... Damn. That was depressing.
I wonder about that. Obviously she's never referred to in the main games but it would be an interesting subject for a fan-fic. (If Rei lived in the Phantom Thieves' time her mother would DEFINITELY end up as a target...)
hmm, I also think the 3rd dungeon being horror themed can symbolize the theme of restriction as well, Rei wanted to grow up, make friends and eventually find her prince charming, how ever, she couldn't do any of that because she was destined to stay in that hospital till the day she died, due to the severity of her illness, growing up so ill, and having to live all day in a place where painful surgeries, tests and medications would be given to her, combined with the fact that she was fated to die in that hospital, could be the reason why the hospital is horror themed
Something else i wanted to mention about the white rabbit from Alice in Wonderland. Literary scholars often classify it as a psychopomp, a grim reaperesqu figure similar to what Zen is for anyone not familiar with that concept. So that sort of adds another layer of meaning to that boss.
That actually makes a lot of sense, he's a being that guides Alice into another world. And with Zen being a psychopomp with a clock motif, that definitely fits here.
SMT/Persona games might be heavy handed or on the nose at times, but wow they're creative about it. Seriously though, wow the twist in this game is just something else. All of the theories in my opinion, seem plausible at least.
Also remember that the final “treasure” of the labyrinth is a card from one of the patients who used to live at the hospital with reí but was cured. And the card saying for her to Rest In Peace that to also supports the idea that the 4 labyrinth is Rei’s funeral
I forgot to talk about Yuki. We don't have a lot to go on as to who Yuki was, though it's likely the hospital Rei spend most of her life in is the same one you go to for the Death and Devil SLs in P4. She's definitely not connected to Yukiko, that's too big of a time gap. But it does explain why Rei forms a "big sister" relationship with Yukiko on the P4 route. Rei's whole story is very similar to something from Labrys' backstory in the Arena games, but the girl Labrys was based on definitely wasn't Rei, again the timing doesn't add up.
BigKlingy it’s mostly good for thought but in my version of the persona canon the girl that labrys calls mom during her ending at P4AU is reí it kinda adds to her whole “why was I ever born” aspect of reí that sadly no one will know
Not going to lie, PQ is great solely for the symbolism as well as just how well the pulled the twist off. Just, it's everything I love in games like this. It's perfect. Shame about the flanderization, but I can live with that when we have such amazing symbolic stuff like this. You in Wonderland is pretty much Escapism, and nothing more symbolic. It's good for very minor foreshadowing, as well as helping explain a lot about Rei un hindsight. It's even better with the later parts of it, as the entire dungeon looks like it's breaking down, much like how escaping reality can't last forever, as much as we'd like it too. I honestly see the entire Queen of hearts fight as a represtaion of how Rei feels like no one can really empathize with her situation. The Queen is clearly robotic and that could be taken as Rei feeling like everyone is like robots, saying the same things in a slightly different way because it's impossible for them to empathize with her situation. Or maybe I'm looking too deep and I'm just completely wrong. The Group Date Cafè is interesting because it shows a very shallow view of love. Fittingly since Rei never was able to find it in her short life. The fact that it slowly breaks down the deeper you get kinda shows the less talked about destructive side of love. As the deeper you go the more predatory and parasitic look of love appears. Fittingly, this is still a shallow view but more cynical. The Preist is an odd fellow. Because when you get down to it, he isn't as malicious as he seems. He's just doing what he thinks is right, which happens to be an interesting theme for the next boss. Not nessciarily mal intended, but it results in Rei feeling worse. The Evil Sprit Club is death itself. And it's so sad, because Rei could never get that life she wanted. Then we get to the hospital. bar none, the most disturbing part of the game. Fitting for destruction. The baby FOEs seem for me to represent her soon death. She simply never was able to live. She's just a "baby". The kind Doctor is, at least in my thoughts, probably the least destructive Character in the reality. I think the Doctor himself was litteral, he was kind but Arrogant. Her reaction in the fight is because she remembers him as the person who failed her, and as such he represents death for her. Thus, she's terrified of the boss. And I don't have much to say what wasn't said Inaba Pride Exhibit. Sorry bout that.
I rambled enough in the part where the reveal happens, so to just discuss some more minor elements about the various aspects here, I feel while the game never directly states it, it's heavily implied that it's cancer that Rei suffered from. The specific mention of shaving her hair can relate to the process behind chemotherapy, and judging by the dialogue and context behind the hospital boss, it could be that she was undergoing surgery to remove a cancerous growth. And while it may be a stretch, the way her shadow transforms, with a cracked neck in the stuffed animal seeping forth stuffing that engulfs it in these large growths feels like it could symbolize that as well.
21:10 Oh my... it was RIGHT there the whole time. 29:38 Loosely related, but hopefully the 5S OCs get to have their own Personas. There's so much that, again, it's just a shame that everything got saved until the end. Honestly, I think it's done better here than anything else in the series due to how the focus is exclusively on Rei. It's a shame that this game has such a vocal and passionate hatedom, because it does some stuff really well. Coming out a time when Persona 5 was on the horizon and being another P3/P4 crossover seemingly damned it from the start among the Persona fandom, with the flanderization of certain characters being the icing on the cake. Meanwhile, the EO fandom is so cynical and complaint heavy that they have gotten a QoL feature *removed* from the series (the Untold games let you jump to any staircase on a floor that you'd used once it had been mostly mapped out, while also being able to start from any prior floor upon entering a labyrinth-- V, IIRC, completely axed floorjump and only allowed you to start from the first floor of a Stratum or the latest one you had access to)… so anything with a set character and plot as the exclusive options was going to get torn to pieces. I'm thankful for this LP, and it allowing me to see the game for myself and it presented in a positive light. Hopefully a similar deal will happen when you get to the Cold Steel games (the admin of the discord server I'm in loves them and has Rean as his PFP half the time, whereas most other places I've seen them brought up range from lukewarm on them to "how dare the series I liked get popular off of this"-- a sentiment that seems very pervasive among JRPG fandoms, if the SMT/Persona divide, FE fanbase, and sheer vitriol and spin over Xenoblade 2 being the most successful game in it's series is anything to go off of). Of course, that's years off and I'll probably have tried them myself by that point; though hopefully the series keeps getting localized and released on more platforms, because as of right now Nippon Ichi is in dire financial straits-- between the Disgaea mobile game being broken at launch and having to be taken down and multiple original titles going uncharted.
21:10 Yep. It's played with a flute rather than a guitar to obfuscate it a bit, and the rest of the song isn't anything like I'll Face Myself, so it can be easy to miss. But it's a really nice detail. 29:38 Oh right, P5S is going to get OCs. Hmm... I wonder if it'll be mid-P5 like the Q games or post-P5 like Arena was to 3 and 4. Post would discount a certain character from appearing (barring Royal doing something about that), but I'd be interested to see what P5's cast get up to after their game ends. I remember back in the day, the main source of hate was "yet another spinoff" (being announced right around the time Dancing All Night was did it NO FAVOURS), but I decided I'd get it because" Hey, a Persona RPG on a Nintendo system". I ended up really enjoying the gameplay, and the story eventually hooked me. I kind of saw some things coming regarding Zen and Rei (I think I accidentally spoiled that Zen was Chronos), but the way the big reveal happened floored me. And the soundtrack, holy crap the soundtrack. It might be better than most of the main series. I don't know a lot about the EO fandom, but given what you've told me maybe that was a good thing going into this. Thanks for the praise. This is a strange game for me as it has some really huge flaws that I definitely can't downplay, but it's still probably my all-time favourite 3DS game. As for Cold Steel, I'm hoping I can do that too. CS has its flaws, but the Sky games do too (currently near the end of my Sky replay, and wow the plot escalates WAY too fast at the end of the 2nd last chapter), and Sean Chiplock's voice acting made me like Rean a lot more than most people do. Sorry that was long, but I really wanted to respond to that. Hopefully this'll still be enjoyable up until the end.
29:38 People are saying the announcement trailer talked about P5's events in the past tense (and one of the new animated scenes in the Royale trailer had that someone's arm just visible to the side of Haru, so they're obviously getting redeemed and sticking around-- and even if they didn't, The Killer is playable in Ultimax so...), so probably shortly after. By my count, there's 11 characters so far (all the Thieves counting Futaba + the redhead OC); I'd expect at least one more OC-- though it depends on if the redhead girl is playable. (The pigtails made out of floating hearts seem like a very KT touch, with how downright wacky the Mystic designs in Warriors Orochi get-- Nezha/Nata Taishi looking straight up like a TRON reject, Yoshitsune Minamoto having an arm-mounted lightsaber and back parts that make him look like a Gundam, Shennong's… glowing green transparent abs with a ying-yang symbol inside them.) Q's release was around the time when Persona fell on my radar, so it stuck out to me for a while because of that (as well as being a crossover with EO of all things). EO is a niche JRPG that was on another level of total nicheness in the DS days (not helped of course by the 2nd and 3rd games only having Japanese and NA releases), so the core fandom is pretty insular. The numbered titles are all genuinely well regarded; it's just the games with story modes that aren't. You getting to Sky is probably what'll get me to finish SC; I've been told that my big gameplay issue gets addressed later on (as apparently both Crossbell and CS are a lot more Craft-focused instead of biased towards magic), so I can look forward to that at least.
29:38 Okay. We'll have to wait and see what happens. Considering how strong the Persona Yoshitsune is, the arm-mounted lightsaber seems fitting. EO definitely seems niche, and it's also a delibarate call-back to the days of plotless hardcore roguelikes so I can see why its fandom is adverse to anything that makes things easier. I've heard the games with story modes are good starting points and the story modes themselves are at least optional. Magic is definitely the best option in Sky. Cold Steel 1 probably leans slightly towards physical, CS2 nerfed physical attacks by greatly lowering their accuracy (to the point where it's nicknamed "Sen no Misseki") but still has good physical options and the "dodge-and-counter" system, though the first two CS games also have the disgustingly broken Chrono Burst.
Something I noticed is before Rei has her memories restored by Zen they are blue which with her blonde hair gives her the appearance of Alice this could represent how she imagined her self as Alice when reading the book and fulfills a similar in game as a young girl in a surreal world.Then after Rei’s memories are restored they turn brown her original color as seen in flash backs this could mean her fantasy’s over and has to face the truth of who she is or that she was “blinded” by Zen and made unable see the labyrinths for what they really were.
27:00 There's an essay I read a while back that goes into this theme in more depth in P3's story and mechanics. I don't know if you can link to things in youtube comments, but it's called "Time, Death and Persona 3", so Google is your friend. Some of the points I personally felt were kind of a stretch, but it's still a good read! Spoilers for all of P3, though.
Persona is really good with symbolism. I LOVE how the Boss Fights here all connect in retrospect. Oh, by the way, the Clock Tower's level design is ALSO very symbolic. That's gonna be interesting.
It killed me to have to hold back from talking about all this during the fights themselves. But you can't really explain what these bosses represent without huge spoilers. 22:38 It's really sad, but I feel that's the symbolism they were going for there.
Not gonna lie I teared up a bit watching this. Beautifully done. Persona Q's story is one of the few in gaming that has legitimately made me cry... Not even Persona 3 made me cry. (Though one particular important event in Person 4 DID make me cry as well.... There's no way I can mention that here without going into spoiler territory but well... December 3rd, that's all I'll say). Seeing how much effort the writers put into this story makes it a shame that it's all saved for the very end. I can understand why they did that, but I just keep wondering what they could have done to make Persona Q more accessible to people... Currently playing Persona Q2 for the first time, standing right before the boss door of the 2nd dungeon. So far Q2 has improved on virtually every aspect from the original Q. Whether or not the story holds up remains to be seen, but I have high hopes.
29:54 Not sure I agree with this statement about the killer in P4. Spoiler warning for those who haven't finished P4. When he merged with his shadow, it felt more like he had fully accepted his shadow, not that he continued to deny it. Void Quest however did deny, in a similar way to Rei. The killer could control his shadow like a projection when initially talking to the investigation team at the entrance to his dungeon as, along with Rise stating that he had control over his own dungeon. When his fight concludes, we see that he's being juiced up by Ameno-Sagiri, just how Shadow Teddie was also being juiced up (the stronger presence behind Shadow Teddie, as Rise says).
I find it kind of ironic that Best Friend goes against death and stands back up to fight again when despite wanting to live and prove her existence, Rei was unable to.
This just HAD to be in episode 69 didn't it? Oh well. Could've been worse. 2:40 The Lost in Adaptation review of the Disney version theorised that in that version they used the 'it's all a dream'-trope to justify why Alice's cat was acting like a Disney cat (like waving Alice goodbye as she falls in the rabbit hole) instead of like a normal cat. Thought that was pretty clever. 28:52 As well as Susano-o for Yusuke.
Starting the Clock Tower on Episode 70 feels nice though. 2:40 I personally never liked the Disney version but it does have some good visuals, and it's generally been a pretty good world in Kingdom Hearts. Thinking about it, I probably like the Disney version of Alice herself the most out of all her portrayals, I just don't like how the Disne one ignores most of the book and doesn't really have a plot. 28:52 And Yosuke. They really like Susano-o.
Personally, I disagree about the kind doctor. Surgery is always scary, no matter how many times you go through it. Whether it's a simple surgery or a more complex one. There's always a risk to it, the chance of closing your eyes under the anesthesia and then never opening again. From the doctor's lines, it sounds more like this was her usual surgeon. Someone she saw often for various procedures. The first line makes me think of the first time he saw her. Then so on and so forth up to the last line where something goes wrong in her treatment. Whether it be her illness catching up to her or her having a poor reaction to a treatment. I do agree that she likely dies during that emergency procedure, likely they weren't able to save her that final time. So Rei's line there about not wanting it, I feel that more heavily implies that she's terrified of surgery. Which would make sense, not only being a child and having to undergo it frequently, but also being one final surgery in which she died. Closing her eyes to the panicked voices of her doctor and nurses and never opening them up again. Subconsciously, I feel she kind of blames her doctor and nurses at least partially for not being able to fix her (Implied by the anger she felt to the nurse who saved her hair for her). The doctor being incompetent would be more tragic, but I also feel it kind of takes away from the reality of the situation. She wasn't ever going to survive her illness. Even if she had the best surgeon. She was always going to die young. It didn't matter if she fought harder, like she suggests when talking to Chronos. The point of her story (From what I've seen thus far) is she's not wanting to face the inevitability of her situation. Having the surgeon be incompetent raises the suggestion of "But what if he wasn't, she could've lived!" which I feel takes away from the core focus of her story.
6:30 I'm surprised you didn't spend more time discussing Rei's real name. The game spells out the meaning her mother used for "Niko", but non-Japanese-speakers might assume some sort of cultural context (i.e. it being a traditional name for second children) rather than realizing it's literally just "ni" (the number 2) and "ko" ("child"). For me, that line was the biggest wham line of all, just for how brutally degrading it was in just two syllables and for how heavy such a cruelly given name would be to bear for her entire life. It really contributes to the sense of meaninglessness and worthlessness that she felt about herself, and was probably a big part of why she was so desperate to prove that her life did have value after all.
I felt the game explained the "second child" thing perfectly well on its own, with that one line. About the name "Rei" though, it's a homophone for the Japanese word for ghost/phantom, but it's got another meaning that I want to mention later.
@@BigKlingy sweet! I was curious what it meant. I assumed it was somewhere in the clock tower. I've been trying to balance listening to the videos and playing Xenoblade
Damn. I knew PQ had more symbolism then I suspected. But it was a HUGE amount. It makes me wonder if PQ2 will get anywhere close to this level of symbolism. If it does, I hope they take a different approach from Zen and Rei since their story was already perfect.
The main worry I have about Q2 right now is that the new character's story isn't going to measure up to Zen and Rei's. Looking at footage, I have no doubt the gameplay is going to be a big improvement on Q1. But Zen and Rei are a very hard act to follow.
She's actually far worse in vanilla P4. She has twice as much health in Golden but she gained an Ice weakness, she now has a tell for when she's going to use Burn to Ashes and you have a lot more options. (If you're really lucky with shuffle time, you can get Null Physical by the time you fight her, by drawing a Magician card for Slime) From what I remember though, Shadow Kanji got worse in Golden. That terrifies me.
If Rei died 12 years ago that would make her year of death either 1997 or 1999 depending on which group the 12 years is relative too and we assume that she is a first year based on what Yukari assumes her age to be we could guess that since she would have been 15-16 to be first year high schooler age we can concur she was born in either the years 1981-1992 or 1983-84. Wouldn’t have the person the Kind Doctor was based been barred from practising medicine if he was incompetent. Because if he was known to be incompetent enough that a patient had a big chance of dying at his hands he should have probably been not allowed near Rei. But then again desperate times call for desperate measures and if the only surgeon both available and affordable has been barred from practising he might be Rei’s only hope for survival. I never realised the resemblance between I’ll Face Myself and the theme of the later nights of the Inaba Pride Exhibit but considering we have to confront somebodies Shadow Self at the end it does make sense. Plus to hammer in the more feral nature of Best Friend every skill it has is either a physical attack, something to help it hurt you more like knocking you down or something that allows to continue attacking you like a rabid animal. Considering that the Guy F.O.E’s and the Festival Dudes due to being large muscular men with loincloths and the like we could assume that the other two F.O.Es were not created by that conversation and were always there. In fact every Ultimate Persona In Persona 5 had appear in Shin Megami Tensei at some point or another as Alliat was a standard Shin Megami Tensei demon, Astarte was in the movie Persona Trinity Soul and Prometheus was Baofu’s Ultimate Persona In Persona 2 Eternal Punishment. Although even then most Personas Ultimate or otherwise have either not appeared in any Shin Megami Tensei games or have only appeared once or twice. So it is not like the cases of Cerberus and Athena who were recurring summons in the main game’s and hence have a lot more recognisable brand so to speak. Persona Q2 likewise likes to use Labyrinths and there bosses in a similar way. Although there the game gives you direct evidence or tells you what a lot of it is meant to symbolise. A bit like Persona 5 in a way where what the elements of the Cognition represent are either quite obvious or spelled out to you like Kaneshiro thinking of People as walking ATMs to extort while Okumura thinks of his workers as disposable robots. I could say more but I kind off out of time and cannot think of more to say right now. Hence I might be back later to say more
The only thing sadder than getting all of this knowledge and details about the sweetest spin-off character in all of Persona... is the fact that the part to have said details is on the literal position of a number that's also a means to get Niko made to begin with.
Rei’s original name, Niko, is derived from Nikos which is derived from Nike the goddess of victory and Rei’s victory was that she lived. You know what if Rei’s persona was Nike (greek godess of Victory) that’d tie in her name’s symbolism a lot more.
I had to skip ahead LOL 10:40 ish I actually interpreted that as something about Reis parents! I had assumed maybe the mother was forcibly married or unwillingly married, as she had no option, CHAINED down and RESTRICTED, possibly implying the father wasnt a very good man, and the mother was forced to have children. That's how I had interpreted it initially. It started out all cute then became very bad very quickly. 16:45 I NOTICED THAT TOO I loved that 20:42 OOOOOOOOOH I was listening for an instrument or something but I TOTALLY HEAR IT NOW AAAAH OH MY GOD PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE BRING UP REI WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT P4 Oh man that was really good. I'm gonna look through the comments I'll be honest I was kind of a naysayer of this game. I figured since it's a crossover, youd be here for characters, but since some of them are flanderized then why bother, but I am totally going to be singing a different tune. I really wished I just played it for myself
Zen and Rei are legit some of my favourite characters in the whole series, and it's a shame the flanderization turns a lot of people off of this game before they can see their best moments.
@@BigKlingy I agree. I was totally one of those people but good night they're so much deeper. I love how this game seems to be more of a thematic crossover than an actual traditional crossover. That's so bad ass to me. I could totally see this being one of my fave persona games if I played it myself
this video show why I loved this series and it quite possibly one of the reason why megami tensei is my favorite. I love symbolism in general( because I love artsy stuff). While yes it can very heavy-handle and eye-roll obviously/GET IT (IT SYMBOLIC!!!!!) but it handle well I don’t mind it. Spoilers for Shin megami tensei 2 That whole spirits and gods being real by believe is that t.v tropes would called much older then you think as this concept was mention has far back at Shin Megami Tensei 2 as yhvh/god would still existed if people still believe him.
Truthfully i almost skipped this part once i seen you didnt continue the game and it was only a discussion. Im glad i didnt though. Hearing you explain everything and give your own theories was actually pretty interesting. I would actually like to hear what you were starting to mention regarding the P4 stuff too.
I shall not laugh about the part number. 0:44 The fun part begins! 2:47 While it isn't exact, this also sounds like how the labyrinths in PQ2 were created. 5:44 But we never met a king, unless it's a metaphor for Chronos, who created the labyrinths. 5:50 Same thing, really. 7:00 While we're still here, I have 2 things I want to mention that you didn't bring up: first of all, the Queen of Hearts could represent the Reverse Empress, which symbolizes lack of growth, which represents how Rei doesn't want to wake up from the "wonderland" she's living in with Zen, and not admit that she is dead, and secondly, due to the design and alignment to the Empress Arcana, she could have been an inspiration for Milady in P5. 9:51 Still amazing as ever. 10:39 I remember that moment. That was funny (and a big mistake on your part). 11:41 While we're still here, I'd like to bring up the fact that the Merciful Clergyman could represent the Reverse Lovers, which symbolizes lack of choice, which you explained thoroughly. 14:39 I personally see it as a representation of a disease (most likely the one that Niko had), as disease like tumours start off small, but eventually increases in size, and then you realize that the tumour that you are seeing is quite literally, only the tip of the iceberg. 17:26 You know the drill by now, the Kind Doctor could represent the Reverse Hanged Man, with one of the things it symbolizes being denial, which could represent how Rei doesn't want to admit that she is dead. 18:56 What?! We haven't seen this scene yet! Could it be from the P4 side? 21:30 Wait, what?! *plays that portion of the song and I'll Face Myself at the same time* My god... It's the same! 21:34 And Mitsuo. 25:38 So, let's say in a hypothetic example, somebody's Shadow represented... I don't know, their secret desire to die, and they have been hiding it for, let's say... 3 years, would that mean that that person's Shadow would be as horrifying as Rei's? 27:18 Though, it's also known to heal wounds. 27:19 Is this a clip from your playthrough of P3? I can tell because if you listen to the first few parts with headphones on, you can hear the video in one ear, but not the other. 28:08 Who I have already mentioned.... Whoops. 29"59 And, yeah... They are a very, very, VERY, messed up individual. 30:36 Blah blah blah, the Best Friend could represent the Reverse Tower, but instead of telling you what it symbolizes or a part of what it symbolizes, here a is a small list of readings of the Reverse Tower, and how they represent parts of Rei: Health problems: Self-explanatory; Niko died of illness. Day dreaming: Before Rei regained her memories, she was stuck inside a perfect fantasy of ignorance and refused to admit the truth about herself being dead. Losses: Niko lost her life, and lost her memories. Painful changes: After Niko met Chronos and realized she was dead, after Chronos made her talk, she had an existential crisis about how her life had been meaningless, begged Chronos to kill her, and was going to gouge out her eyes, if it weren't for Chronos taking away her memories, and once Rei regains her memories, she continues to lament about how her life had no meaning. Point being, she couldn't handle the fact that she died so young without doing anything meaningful. I LOVE all the symbolism of the Persona franchise, because it really shows how the developers did their research about not only Jungian psychology, but also the mythologies that the Personas come from. In terms of symbolism, my favourite is P4, due to how the Personas relate to the members of the Investigation Team, the symbolism of the dungeons, as well as the Shadow Selves. #Yosuke4Endgame
7:00 The bosses in this game don't have "official" Arcanas, but that makes sense. 11:41 And that fits too. 17:26 That also fits. 18:56 Yeah, it's a P4 Side scene. A little sneak preview there. 27:19 Yep, early P3. For some reason the cables I was using at the time were faulty and the audio only came out in one channel. 30:36 I'd really like to talk about P4's symbolism one day.
@@BigKlingy 7:00 Though, I will admit that I did not come to these conclusions on my own; I learned about them from Zamkusen's video about the symbolism of Persona Q, though when I was writing my comment, I did come up with some explanations on my own (most notable example being the Best Friend representing the Reverse Tower), though I won't put in a link for it simply because it contains spoilers about the Clock Tower, and I don't want anyone who doesn't know the game's plot to accidently click on the link, and spoil themselves. 18:56 Well, I can't wait to see it because that scene (simply put), is AMAZING! 30:36 I do not know how what I said at this timestamp has anything to do with P4, unless you're talking about the paragraph right under it, which in that case... Then why don't you do a playthrough of it (though I'd understand if you'd want to do other games before it)?
7:00 Ah, right. I saw that video too, but I avoided watching it before making this, so as to not have it influence my opinions. I wanted all of this video to be my own independent theories and research. I'll have to watch it at some point. 18:56 It's pretty great. I might someday, it's just that P4 is REALLY long and it's already been done a lot on RU-vid. We'll see.
Rei.... 😔 So it was true she's been through a lot longer than any of them were in the situation. I feel deeply sorry for her & Zen tries to do anything in his power to protect her along the way but even that too difficult to go out themselves alone. If that weren't enough when Makoto Yuki & his friends from Persona 3 with Yu Narukami & his friends from Persona 4 eventually & unexpectedly meet to the 2 of their presence in the world they're in, trying to figure out how to escape it so then they work together helping Zen and Rei out, adapt through their struggles, & resolve in any possibilities they can find for answers. I believe this is the most tragic part for Rei's Case that went all for naught... but I hope that in time, Zen & others would get there to bring her back up. For hearing his explanations from 4 dungeons he speaks about & are related for based on Rei's mind & thoughts, it can be possible to theorize maybe proven that is what she's been going through to try to endure but that's just me guessing & I'll have to remember this that it just hits me on point in my heart. 😢😭 Aside from that for a relief at 10:39 was Funny to agree someone posted in his & I check. Lol. That's a mistake there for BigKlingy the 1st Time I read that he edited the text. "WRONG!" Haha. 😁
I love the way you present the little nuances and symbolism in these games! It really made me view them in a new light. Also, if you decide to do a play through of Persona 4, which version would you play? Vanilla or golden?
Probably Golden, since that's the most complete version and the canon one given Marie's presence in this game. I'd need to get hold of a Playstation TV to do it but that's probably not hard. The only real downside is it's going to be really hard to talk about one of the new SLs while trying to remain spoiler-free.
.....people compare me to a storm.....wild, unpredictable, and dangerous.......I see myself as the monster who creates the storm.....uncontrollable, wrathful, destruction incarnate.....my shadow......it is a draconic horror....if I ever get a persona....I've always imagined....a half knight, half dragon being....with a large dragon head as its shield that will never be removed......and a sword....a sword that arcs like lighting yet it still resembles a broad sword of some kind......idk what myth or legend it would be but I know it would be the fool....my shadow....I've always had a vague idea of it....a dragon with more then two eyes, some large scar going across its face, and a roar...a roar that would be heard even in death.....but that's the most I could make out.....it's...."palace"......I don't know...but I do know bones would be scattered like snow.....I hate it....I hate how it's a part of me....I hate how its primordial rage and strength are what I rely on.....I'm scared of it.....because I know....that it's what I might become....it's berserk........because....I've denied it.....for as long as I've lived I've denied the fact that I am the dragon that burnt the kingdom down....I believed all my life I was the gallant wolf protecting it.....and I know...I still will.........I suppose......it consumes me.......like a dragon to gold.....my shadow......it's slowly killing me.....just like the P4 killer....
31:33 when the time comes I could talk about Zeus in the comment section since I know a bit about him specifically in the fact that it was confirmed he is an Etrian Odyssey character... well kind of
I'm suprised you didn't go into the Guardian's arcanas. Here's my 2 cents on each: The Queen of Hearts is revered Empress, misplaced affection and skewed priorities. She obsesses over the treasure so much she throws her entire army at you, despite her "King" demanding she hand it over. The Merciful Clergymen is obviously reversed Lovers: False love, bad choices, and/or the illusion of choice. You went over how it ties into that pretty well :) The Kind Doctor is probably reversed Hanged Man: Meaningless sacrifice or unnecessary hesitation. He boasts about being a great surgeon, but is quick to panic and goes down quickly without his nurses supporting him. It also ties in to how Rei sees her own life and death as without purpose. The Best Friend needs a bit more speculation, considering how bestial it is compared to most other shadows, but I think Shadow Rei represents reversed Star. Star normally represents hope, optimism, and luck. Reversed, it means depression, helplessness, and most importantly, not facing your fears. You see this in P4 with Shadow Teddie's ramblings of the pointlessness of seeking the truth and wishing to just leave in peaceful ignorance. However, Reversed World may also work, as it shows that you are almost ready to take a big step forward or complete a big project, but are unwilling/afraid to take the final steps to reach that last goal or achievement. In this case, Rei's unwillingness to pass on.
The main reason I didn't was I don't think their Arcanas are actually shown in-game or revealed in any official materials, so any arcana discussion is purely speculation. But the ones for the first three bosses definitely fit. Reverse Star would make sense, given how optimistic Rei usually is. Something to point out though: Shadow Teddie's Arcana in P4 is actually Moon, not Star. (Explicitly shown in-game) He's the only Shadow who doesn't match his host's Arcana, and the Moon represents illusions and falsehood. Major P4 spoilers below. This hints that Shadow Teddie isn't 100% Teddie's own fears and insecurities, but has actually been hijacked by Ameno Sagiri. This is made a lot more explicit in the anime, but the hints are there in the game too.
you in wonderland: escapism and Rei/Niko's finding her mom a b!tch group date cafe: Rei/Niko hoping to god that she lived and have an happy life. I do like to think Rei/Niko heard about christian god and god's miracles and she just wants something to to end the suffering Evil spirit club: How see the hospital and having thantophobia( fear of death) Inaba pride exhibit: Her funeral and celebrating her short live. also thinking kanji hot/almost naked(but hey I don't blame her). also I do wonder what the p3 cast's shadow and berserk form look like? Spoilers for p3. If persona reflects mental health, the pills that shinjoro taken most likely were medication( opioids)
We get a slightly glimpse into what some of their shadows would've been like in Arena Ultimax, but most aren't really accurate, other than Ken's. (Which is, fittingly, TERRIFYING) E.g. the fake Shadow Yukari in Ultimax is just one giant Sentai joke wheras the real Yukari's Shadow probably would've been interesting to see. Same for Junpei, his Shadow probably relates to his feelings of inferiority. Something I personally find interesting is that the P3 cast force their Personas out using Evokers, which is why they've never faced their Shadows.... as a result, none of them work through their issues until late into the story, which explains why the whole team is far more dysfunctional than the P4 group at first.
I think the evokers were design to force persona out by doing a faux-trauma action. By arena the p3 gang are munch more mental healthy and for the most part summon without a evoker(expect being a super move) In p5 it more like the shadow becomes a persona by it own( ie contract) but it has to use a mask. It interesting how p5 shadow are something you need to lived and can pushed in life, it made shadows just your dark side, just inner thoughts.
1:56 That bit I got, and before I go on I want to say that I thought the events each labyrinth represents were all in chronological order, but part of the flashback proved that that wasn't totally true. 2:47 OH. Oh my, that's really sneaky. 7:33 And that's when my heart broke into a hundred pieces, but back on topic notice how she said it was from a festival, that's the part that made me realise I had the timeline of events wrong. 11:15 Owch... the part about this being her want for love I got, but even though it's there from the beginning by the time we got to the big reveal I'd forgotten about the restriction part, and also all the coffins the Priest had *really* should have tipped me off to the hidden theme of death, but instead I chose to focus on the Priest's ranting and raving. 12:00 Once again I have the timeline wrong, but even though I liked the theory I had, this makes more sense. 15:41 Oh no... at the time I just brushed those lines off, but now I want to cry all over again, especially at that because it's almost certainly the last thing Rei ever heard. 18:05 Meanwhile I, not realising Rei was already gone, assumed this to be one last attempt at making her happy before a complication arose and she passed while those with her were bringing her back to the hospital, and when I saw her in the flashback in what I thought was a kimono this seemed to confirm that idea, but now I think it's really a medical gown which fits since she actually passed mid-operation. 21:35 Ah, I didn't know that song so my guess was totally off the mark (my thought process was pretty much this: "Well the boss is a rabbit so is this a remix of music from the first labyrinth?")
11:15 The priest is so hilarious at the time that it draws you away from all the symbolism. 15:41 Yeah, all those lines take on a very new meaning after the big reveal.
I've already spoiled myself on this game via a different playthrough so I'm not concerned that being said the denial of the shadow explanation in a way the same could be applied to the P5 villains and their shadows as they been present for far longer and in a since they been slowly but surely merging with their own shadow the presence of the palace could eminence this notion if you think about it but there's a chance to dig deeper on that once a P5 LP happens. Speaking of which thought it will be a while I bet your glad that you may had second thoughts about doing P5 first over P4 due to the fact P5 will become a vanilla version.
The P5 villains are essentially one with their Shadows too. In their cases, their Shadows more represent what they could be if they didn't have to hide their true deeds from society, a sort of completely unrestrained version of themselves. Given that the main characters' Personas in that game arise from breaking free of the constraints of society, the villains are a dark mirror of the heroes in a way. The difference is "I'm going to finally stand up for myself" vs "I can do whatever the hell I want and get away with it". Now that Royal has been announced, I'll probably wait until Royal to play P5. Doing a playthrough of P5 now would make it "outdated".
ok NOW were done with the evil spirit club right? no more revisit there no more really discussing it for the most part hopeful were finally done with it
Most of this is my personal opinion, but it's fun to try and find this kind of stuff. I'm sure Q2 will have things like this too. I've spoiled myself on the basic premise of Q2, and they'll probably do some interesting stuff with that. Especially with all the film references.
Why is Persona Q so damn sad and depressing ohhh I know why it’s because of Atlus themselves after all Atlus games are never happy endings in fact it’s rare for games like these to have happy endings!
