I'm so sorry this happened to you and your family, Sam. Your channel has been a fount of knowledge for me. I know you'll continue the great work in the future!
I haven't been here very long but really enjoy your channel and learn a lot (ironic,since you weren't teaching 😊). I was wondering where you were and even checked a couple times to make sure I was still subscribed. I'm happy to know you will continue here, with expanded boundaries!
Thank you for taking the time to make this video along with your entire channel. Many of your videos have been a great blessing to me. As an adult, who's parents left the way when I was 5, your interview with Sean Finnegan was especially insightful and even healing. May YHWH bless you and your family in Yeshua's mighty name for all you do for our Father and our Lord and the Kingdom of God :)
@@transfigured3673 One of my favorite videos was Enberg-Pederson, Dale Tuggy interviewed Dr. Paul W. Newman who has a similar view (Spirit Christology some call it) would be fun to see you chat with him
Thank you for sharing your story brother. Those of us out here who have had similar experiences can definitely relate and sometimes it's therapeutic to know that we're not the only ones experiencing such oppression. I only wish you the best and love your content. I just got done binge watching the church fathers series, double watching your worship video at the UCA conference, and just today triple watching (no pun intended) your video about the prologue of John. Keep up the good work brother and keep the faith. Shalom!
Thank you for this, Sam. I experienced a similar ordeal over the past year. From the sound of it, I was more vocal about my understandings at the congregation I attended (still do actually), but the result was essentially the same. I was given an ultimatum and an immediate dismissal from leadership. I appreciate the position you are in. It's not easy to accept rejection like that, especially when you know 100% that they don't understand your position nearly as well as they think they do. I'm fairly confident all they see is a denial of Jesus, so they act accordingly. Thank you for your content here. I've really enjoyed the Church Fathers videos.
What does it mean to deny Jesus? To deny self-identity to particular abstractions? There are so many assumptions about faith and belief underneath this stuff that stories like this really sadden me.
@@WhiteStoneName I guess I can't answer the question. I simply mean that for them (trinitarian leadership) affirming the understanding that Jesus was truly a man attested by God and not God himself is a denial of Jesus. Any view that doesn't hold Jesus as God would be a denial of Jesus. I disagree with that, obviously, but it seems to be the sentiment of those who have a trinitarian understanding. Whether they think they know what we believe, or simply don't care, if it doesn't align with that, it doesn't fly. Broadly speaking, of coarse.
You are a formidable intellect, whether you like or appreciate that or not, and that is inevitably a threat to those who are not. Thanks for sharing, and God speed ❤
Sorry for your challenges Sam. A difficult and personal talk. You have helped me to move forward on my journey and im sure thats because your honest line of inquiry was apparent. G.b you.
Sorry this is happening Sam. You are handling this with a tremendous amount of grace despite these churches who have not. On the upside I look forward to hearing Protestant convos on the Trinity that are more interesting and nuanced than James White type slamdowns. Good luck and God bless.
My love to you and your family Sam. I greatly respect your thirst for the truth and devotion to your faith. Know that you have my support and are in my prayers!
What you’re talking about from about 6:00 - 6:30 / 7:00 is exactly one of the big problems with a sola scriptura, rationalist, analytical approach to truth and authority (texts vs persons). In a confessionalist church this will always happen to serious inquirers, unless they just never talk about what they think.
Having been in The Way---way early- I really loved your point of why it is important to the walk! Go teach since we are responsible for what We know! 33:05 33:07
I think you succeeded in being respectful, controlled, and measured here. You did better than i would have. Ive enjoyed your podcast a lot, and think you show much more nuance and listening than I notice in Finnegan or Tuggy, which is why i keep listening to each episode of transfigured. Your work has made me much more aware of the development of trinitarian doctrines and christology. I haven't seen eye-to-eye with you on Jesus exactly, but I've definitely moved much closer, finding something like Branson's monarchy of the Father the closest fit to my best understanding of the scriptural data at this point. Looking forward to your interview with WL Craig. :-)
And a church broke with us because I wouldn't sign an affirmation of eternal conscious torment, so I'm sadly not surprised you've faced serial troubles. God bless y'all.
Sorry to hear that happened to you. I hope to interview WLC someday. Might get the chance when his trinity debate book with Branson and Tuggy comes out, hopefully later this year.
Thanks Sam. I think this is a step in the right direction. You continue to have my love and respect. Now if you would only stop platforming Hank we might be able to make some REAL progress. 😂
Hi Sam, I've been watching your series with Hank for quite awhile and thoroughly enjoying it. I was raised Catholic (couch Catholic) and then in my 40's and early 50's went to "The Way Ministry" which is how I found you! Currently I am going to a local community trinitarian church, off and on, but haven't really committed to it. To tell you the truth I'm still trying to decided the issue of the trinity which is why I have so enjoyed you and Hank. If you want a suggestion for a Protestant to interview, I would very much like to see you and Mike Winger have a discussion. He is a hard core trinitarian but also treats others with differing views with respect.
Thanks for the recommendation. Sounds like you have an interesting story. Best of luck with your wrestling. I certainly appreciate how difficult it is. Hope I can help.
Thank you for your good work on the channel and explanation of the slowdown in content. I'm sorry for the distress this has caused you and your family. I have greatly appreciated your church fathers series and your interviews with academics because I wouldn't take the time and effort that you invest and you produce good quality work. I see you contribution as not only education in the historical topics but also in finding a way forward to building community in the larger church body. I don't see all the various denominations all merging into just one big church where all the differences have been eliminated. Somehow a mutual respect and tolerance will develop eventually. I think you will have a role in that. Thank you for all that you do.
Hi. Just found you through Finnegans podcast, will sub. In this country (New Zealand) there is no unitarian church, so I go it alone mostly. Been non trinity since end of 2017, stronger all the time. Iron sharpens iron so in debating commenters on RU-vid I have been strengthened heaps. After 38 years a trinitarian and local involvement in pentecostal churches and a major christian radio network it hurts a bit to be unwelcome, but I left the trinitarian groups voluntarily as I cant look past or wink at the blatant trinity bias in all sermons and study groups. Tell you what Sam, I have never had so much closeness to God and answers to prayer, as I have had in the last 5 years having rejected the trinity and not going to a so called "local church" other than a few online zooms with TLTF guys and the tiny mens group I attend who are FGBMFI trinity guys and tolerate me as long as I dont speak against the trinity, and I let them know they better not talk about it either... LOL Cheers. blessings, keep up the good work.
I understand what you have gone through. I have been pushed out of a few house meetings once I tried to express my point of view, even though people previously appreciated my contributions to the conversational bible studies. Very painful to lose friendships.
Isnt it ironic, I have the same thing going on. I get told all the time that my biblical understanding and ability to explain it is great.... this in relation to common ground... in the small mens (FGBMFI) group where I fellowship. Until I point out that I am non trinitarian now, and then the room erupts in heated voices. I still go there, we have no statement of faith, and one other member is now like me (ha ha) but the others will not seek my explanation or understanding on this issue, yet can get the same kudos if I explain something neutral to both sides. LOL. As there is no unitarian churches here in New Zealand I gotta keep going there or nowhere... They appreciate me as long as I dont say anything important... ironic eh?
Thank you for sharing, Mr. Tideman. Now I won't have to think about Boston beer every time you are mentioned in this corner 🙂. I am sure this is a big weight off your shoulders. I think not having the worry of doxing yourself always in the back of your mind will afford you more freedom to express yourself moving forward, and your audience, I am sure, will benefit from that and appreciate it. With that said, around the 28-minute mark, you mentioned that you think fellowship and communion are possible across the Trinitarian and Unitarian divide. Does fellowship for you extend into actual worship and communal eating, or is it more along the lines of constructive dialogue? Also, where is this particular belief and hope rooted? I think a video to better articulate your stance and open up a conversation on this topic would be helpful.
I've enjoyed your series with Hank discussing the early church history. Some suggestions: Gavin Ortlund, David Bercot or Dean Taylor (anabaptists), Sean Mcdowell or Mike Winger (if they can acknowledge that the trinity is nonessential, that would be a major shift in evangelicalism), Michael Jones (IP), David Wilbur (119 ministries, pronomian).
Hey Sam, I'm sorry that you've been going through this unfortunate situation. Church leadership dynamics can be a tricky thing to deal with. I think what I most empathize with you about is how you expressed not talking with the entire elder board and the feeling of being judged and a decision being made before getting to say your piece or make a defense. Like the whole thing might've just felt better if you all sat down and had a conversation first, even if it would've ended similarly, at least you would've felt heard, and understood, and could've parted in a better way. I hope you continue on in your spiritual journey, that it is fruitful to yourself and your family, and seek the Truth we are all grasping for. Take care, brother.
What's difficult about that is the assumption that self-identity and doctrinal agreement about ideas is not unity. You need legit difference for unity. I've been talking to Sam about the Trinity for years, A LOT, and we don't agree about the details. I'm not even sure that I understand the details or where to meaningfully disagree. The whole system (and I use that word intentionally) is the closed (dead, no resurrection) loop of the Ouroboros.
This makes me angry Sam. So much disrespect and dishonor towards you. People wonder why Christianity is dying? You’re part of the true Body of Christ always. You have one of the best channels out there. I’ve learned a lot because of your channel. Take comfort that you on the side of the angels on this one ….
Hey Sam, this is nice to hear mainly because I went through literally the same thing at my church (although I still go there when I visit). I was the Pianist, a leader in the youth fellowship, sunday school teacher as well and I was asked to take my leave from all of those roles when I refused to sign the statement of faith. It wasn't primarily because I disagreed with the statements (I certainly did to a large extent), but it was as a matter of principle. To me, signing that was a statement to the effect of "I'm not open to changing my views based on more evidence or study even if they were to contradict dearly held beliefs" which was preposterous. But moving out of it allowed me to delve so deep into the history of the Bible, and scholarship in general, and strangely the very people who wanted me out seem to be more comfortable talking about the very things that were too controversial for them then. Quite fishy indeed, but in hindsight it was all for the better.
I recently started listening to your channel and quickly noticed that it is one of the most enngaging channels for monoteists accross the abrahamic board. It is a combination of discussions of religious and biblical truths but where you also highlight aspects of the method of historical criticism and litterary criticism. Regarding your excommunication the protestant niceans and sunny d’awists (missionaries) are not intrested in truth inquiry. Their goal is competition to aquire greater portion of the market of believers and truth inquiry is a hurdle and not a virtue. In trying to convert followers around the world they use methods of historical criticism and litterary criticism against the opposing religion but use fact fudging when it comes to their own religion. For example the evangelist Jay Smith from Planderfilms likes to use the work of the Inarah School to Clamp down on the Quran but never critiqs the nicean dogma. Likewise the famous sunni convert Paul Williams from Blogging Theology likes to use the work of famous biblical schoolars like Bart Ehrman, Dale Martin, James Taboor etc to Clamp down on christian missionaries but never invites Quranists or Inarah academics to his show. All this reminds me that truth seeking is not just about testifing against others but also testifing against one self and one’s one community: ”O you who believe, you shall be absolutely equitable, and observe GOD, when you serve as witnesses, even against yourselves, or your parents, or your relatives. Whether the accused is rich or poor, GOD takes care of both. Therefore, do not be biased by your personal wishes. If you deviate or disregard (this commandment), then GOD is fully Cognizant of everything you do.” Q 4:135 Also during these difficult times always remember that even Jesus the son of Mary, the messenger of God, the Messias, the most blesserad servant of God was excommunicated because he preached that only God is deserving of worship: ”She(Mary) pointed to him. They said, "How can we talk with an infant in the crib?" (The infant Jesus spoke and) said, "I am a servant of GOD. He has given me the scripture, and has appointed me a prophet."He made me blessed wherever I go, and enjoined me to observe the prayers of the Hours and the obligatory feeding of the poor for as long as I live.”Q 19: 29-31 ”The places of worship belong to GOD; do not call on anyone else beside GOD. When GOD's servant advocated Him alone, almost all of them banded together to oppose him.Say, "I worship only my Lord; I never set up any idols besides Him."Say, "I possess no power to harm you, nor to guide you."Say, "No one can protect me from GOD, nor can I find any other refuge besides Him."I deliver GOD's proclamations and messages." Those who disobey GOD and His messenger incur the fire of Hell, wherein they abide forever.” (Q 72:18-23)
While I had been hoping (with you) for some form of détente - may you soon be known by your love (in a local body), as you are to many of us online . . . pseudonymity notwithstanding 😉
Having come out of your parents's denomination....The Way's early days- so your podcast was VERY interesting! Teach why it's important. Have others explain why it's so foundational! 33:12
Clear lines are drawn not only in regard to moral, ethical issues but also other matters of doctrine. This is a result of a long term de-emphasis of the truth, i.e., the Gospel about the KOG and the things regarding the procreated, human Son of God. So let us keep examining and testing ourselves each and every day. Are we willing to sacrifice property, family, our very lives? Are we ready to stand behind the enemy lines? Let us not "fail the test" by remembering the words of the lord Jesus, recorded throughout all 4 Gospels: “IF you love your life, you will lose it. But if you hate your life in this world, you’ll gain the life of the coming age.” Let us in our distress, like King David himself, pray that we may "fall into the hands of the Lord for His mercies are great. But not into the hands of wicked men. (2Sam 24.14)
It would make me laugh if it weren't so sad that fellow Christians could find this RU-vid channel threatening. You are a model of approaching theological topics with curiosity and honesty, and managing to do so without raising the rhetorical temperature in the room. While I'm sure it would be on a case-by-case basis, it would be fascinating to know what motivates church leadership decisions. Truth? Love? Fear? Power? Upton Sinclair had a memorable line that could explain at least some of the resistance among church leadership to Unitarian Christian thinking: “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
I'm sorry you were rejected because of your sincerely held beliefs, and I'm sorry you were not given a fair hearing beforehand. That is not how people should treat each other. Thank you for this honest update and I continue to look forward to watching your videos.
Thanks for sharing that. I have talked with some ex-JWs who have gone through similar things. JWs can be particular intense about it, but they are not unique.
@@transfigured3673 Yes Sam, more often than not, the ones that leave lose their whole social structure which is quite sad and traumatising for some. I'm just glad I didn't have close friends and family in the organisation
Hi Sam , it’s Glen here from UK. we spoke on zoom about a month ago and spoke about this . I think the way you have been treated , like I also have , is disgraceful . I cannot understand that whatever our personal christology is , why Christian’s can’t just focus on the one fact we all agree on and that unites us all , that being that the only begotten son of God gave his life and through that sacrifice we can be good with our Heavenly Father . Why keep focusing on what divides us . And in the end , how do they know they’ve got it correct to be judging others 🤷🏻♂️
Hi,I personally think they was right to not have you as a part of the structure-playing piano etc.I'm a biblical unitarian but I think they should be of one mind,whether we agree with their theology is another matter.As for maybe trying to get you to leave the church-if they regard you as chaff then they should not try to uproot you? I'm sure you know,God works in mysterious ways-and He's forcing your hand ?
Baffling how such friendly podcast can trigger people to excommunicate. I don't understand what they find so scary about someone disagreeing. Some odd insecurity maybe.
Sorry to hear about what happened to you, and that your congregation is so narrow minded. But I am not surprised. This is the result of fundamentalism and dogma. This is why thoughtful people either leave these churches or never join them to begin with. I attend a local United Church of Christ here in Oregon. Our church is Open and Affirming. We honor all religions around the world, and how God calls to each through those religions. We fully honor women as equal to men in every way. We are a Just /Peace church working for social justice. We are environmentally aware and work toward a more sustainable way of living on our planet. We are mostly Christians, but some are Buddhist and some are Muslim. Some are seekers, and others are spiritual but not very religious. Some, like myself, are Unitarians. Many are Trinitarians. We are encouraged by our pastor to wrestle with the history and meaning of Christianity and of each sermon, which we discuss with the pastor on Zoom every Monday morning, for those who are interested. I love these discussions. We take the Bible seriously but not literally. We thrive on love and community. This UCC church may be too liberal and progressive for you, but I see it as the future. Maybe check one out someday. I have really enjoyed your channel, learned a lot about the Bible and church Fathers. Thanks for sharing your journey.
Thanks for the recommendation. I actually have a lot of connection to and experience with the UCC. My dad grew up UCC and my ancestors have been in the UCC tradition since the Mayflower landed. My children do some activities at our local UCC, the same one my grandparents funerals were at. However, you are right that I feel the UCC is a little too progressive for my general tastes in a church I want to attend regularly and worship with. But I do respect and appreciate it and it will be part of my family's religious life in some respect.
@@transfigured3673 Thanks for your reply. Now that you mention it, I recall you speaking about your ancestral connection to UCC on one of your podcasts. Sounds like it’s in your DNA so to speak, the intellectual curiosity combined with a deep faith. Unfortunately, in my mind, not that many Christians are interested in theology, philosophy, church history and world religious history, as are you and I. Not bragging here, just saying. I am happy to hear you do maintain relationship with a local UCC. I understand your reluctance to become too progressive. It can get scary out here sometimes on the high seas of independent thinking, threatening the very foundations of my faith. I have de-constructed to an Agnostic position twice in my journeys, but thank God the Spirit always finds me and brings me back….
29:35 re: unity across *divisions* Coleridge “it is the privilege of the philosopher (true thinker) to distinguish without division” Why do our opinions need to divide us? Personally or as a group…and I’m doubtful if there is such a thing as a group opinion or belief, except Groupthink-ideological possession.
1) Plenty of churches hire professional musicians. 2) Have you considered that maybe you should label THEM false teachers? 3) The Bible places monotheism at the center of our faith for good cause. As Jesus confirms in Mark 12 and Judaism has always taught, love of G-d is inextricably linked to love of your fellow. Cruelty is the *inevitable* result of polytheism.
Will you distinguish between egalitarian trinitarians (or low-church, not-thought-out, evangelical, whatever) and more nuanced historic trinitarians. I know that you acknowledge a difference btw traditions and thinker like Fr. DeYoung or John Behr and Orthodoxy (or even Jensen perhaps) and the nominal assertions of superficial trinitarians. Right? Monotheism can’t mean G-d as a static monad. So anyone who is talking meaningfully about this is trying to talk about the same thing. Some kind of Reltional Multi-Unity/One.
@@WhiteStoneName I'll leave it for the Christians to make such distinctions... I don't see Sam being welcomed anywhere. And as long as the "three" in Trinity is the operative word, I will harken back to Jesus's prophecy of the Trinity in Matthew 26:34.
Thanks for sharing some insight into church culture, but Sam.. the point of all of this is to bring forth and unify the Kingdom of Heaven with this world. The idea of being a “respected member of the body of Christ” - while not completely meaningless - is practically meaningless compared to the actual mission, and the people who over-emphasize being in the “body of Christ” will continue to distract you and waste your time with relative nonsense.
But these church people are cruel and mean, note to self "Don't attend a Uniterian church" - they dont care about unity. I guess this is why many of us participate in this corner of the internet. Sorry to hear your being scapegaoted by ignorant people. Just wanted to give my support and let you know you have helped me. Blessings!
Everyones salvation is at risk first of all. Sorry you get poor advice my heart hurts for you and your family. I agree with the church's , heresy is a big deal for Christians and majority of Christians are trinitarians since nicea.
“A stone which the builders rejected, this became the chief cornerstone” (1 Pet 2:7). There is a vast difference between what man is building and what God is building. Rejection is always painful, especially when one is striving for unity. But the humility and integrity you continue to walk in is a beacon to the entire Body of Christ. Keep letting your light shine, Mr. Tideman! The influence you are having is profound. And the work being displayed through you is the kind that isn’t wood, hay, or stubble. It’s the kind of work that endures the fires of testing. Ultimately it’s not our doctrine, but our character that is truly most precious to God. His hand on your life is so evident!
Correct doctrine orientates us properly toward God but doctrinal correctness alone will not save you as anyone can memorize and recite doctrine. Neither will your character save you. Anyone can feign a good character. What it comes down to is who you know (Matthew 7:21). But if you claim to know God then wouldn't He freely share proper doctrine with His children and correct them if they are mistaken?
@EmJay2022 >>You are right and you are wrong. I didn’t know I was trying to be either. >>Correct doctrine orientates us properly toward God but doctrinal correctness alone will not save you as anyone can memorize doctrine. Neither will your character save you… I suppose it depends what we think “salvation” is. I definitely don’t think salvation is rooted in violent atonement theologies, where the wrath of God is somehow pacified by sacred violence. No, I think Rene Girard is totally right about that! I do admire the Eastern Orthodox concept of “theosis”, which perhaps captures some of my own notion of salvation. Thus, as we are emptied of the old self (via the pathway of the cross), and thus begin to put on Christ (our Resurrection Life), we begin to be clothed in the Divine Nature (Gal 2:20, 2 Pet 1:4). What is the Divine Nature if not the very image and CHARACTER OF GOD? Thus Paul exhorts us to strip off the old nature and put on a heart of humility, compassion, gentleness, kindness, patience, peace, joy, and love (Col 3:9-12). For me, that is the nature of salvation…our spiritual transformation. Our divine transfiguration! Do you really think one can fake the Divine Nature? When nailed to the cross, to speak forgiveness? Or in Sam’s case, in a moment of rejection, pain, and humiliation, to express humility and love, rather than bitterness and hate and vengeance? We are all aware that Sam knows this topic better than his accusers ever will. And we know that Sam could use this public platform to belittle and slander those who just rejected him. But did he? No, Sam just donned a crown of thorns, and endured the lashes and buffeting of his accusers, and what came out of his heart? Not a word of accusation! If our Christian walk is not about putting on the Divine Nature, then what is it about?
@@transfiguredword7892 "Do you really think one can fake the Divine Nature?" Of course, why else do so many follow after false teachers and false prophets? It is because they effectively mimic Godly characteristics. One thing false teachers and false prophets do not teach is true doctrine. Scripture teaches that correct doctrine serves as a safeguard against being led astray. Ephesians 4:13-14 _"till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,..."_ As far as a believer’s transfiguration, this is an event that happens at the end of the age, in the presence of Christ at the blink of an eye (1 Corinthians 15:52; 1 John 3:2). There not much in the bible that would alludes to a progressive divinization or Theosis. Theosis in the Eastern Orthodox Church is what would be considered "mysticism" or the apprehension of union to the Divine through various praxes. It is a works-based system. Biblical Christianity, however, is justification by faith alone through God's grace. An example being the thief on the cross, he did not have to undergo a drawn out process of Theosis in order to be saved. Neither was doctrinal knowledge a prerequisite for him, however the context has to be taken into account. Unlike ourselves, the Thief did not have the opportunity to learn proper doctrine. We have the affordance of time and so that makes us susceptible to deceit. There are tools to prevent that from happening, one of which is doctrinal correctness. Again, correct doctrine in itself cannot save you but it can prevent you from falling away from the faith. This reason alone is enough reason to make it a necessary pursuit.
@@EmJay2022 Wow, transfiguration in the blink of an eye, that does sound way easier than the pathway of the cross, doesn’t it? No works mentality there. Then again I think such doctrinal misconceptions are precisely what keep us from bearing the cross and being transfigured in the present. So be careful, don’t let that thief rob you of “glorification” by denying the cross and thus equating salvation with justification alone! (Rom 8:29-30). Being conformed to the image of Christ IN THE PRESENT is at the heart of Christianity. Don’t wait for the afterlife. Perhaps as we come to recognize where Christ truly is…within us…we will stop waiting for Jesus to show back up from out of the skies…to work that transfiguration magic. “Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?” (2 Cor 13:5)
