I work in industrial automation. Pretty much every "teach pendant" for controlling robots has a deadmans switch that works exactly like this. You have to hold the switch in the middle position in order for unsafe motion to occur. If you let go, motion stops, if you grip too hard, motion stops. Regulations are written in blood, unfortunately. I'm surprised this type of design isn't more standard.
It'd be a great feature if it actually worked, pull back handle and it works. pull back more and the antipanic kicks in. but pull back even further? and you are lowering again, without antipanic
@@joshz6975People - even experts - make mistakes in the field. Continuing to make that mistake even after your device's failsafe tries to stop you is _very_ different. So no.
I am not a fan of the GriGri+. Tried using it once and with rope drag it becomes a nightmare to lower someone. Also, it's not opening the lowering lever that worries me when people use the GriGri, it's when they override the cam with their fist that worries me.
Yseful device for newbies, the lead mode ive found to be much slicker for payong out slack than previous versions. Anti panic override is habdy for light climbers or easy angled terrain. I got one on sale, dont think i could've justified the cost of a full price
I have it and like it. Good for new belayers. I got dropped once on a normal grigri. It happens. Good safety feature. I like being able to switch into sport mode
That's a bit terrifying that you still trust a GriGri. I have seen a couple near misses, all with GriGris. Was your accident because of a thumb on the cam, or slack between the device and break hand, or belayer not holding the break strand tight enough, or because it was just too cold? You should give another breaking assisted device a try, it won't take long before you toss your grigri+.
@@benh9781 Generally I like the gri gri. I was being lowered and while I was being lowered the belayer was chatting with a friend. He wasn't paying attention to me, and he all of the sudden opened the grigri up all the way, so I dropped the last ten feet. It was not the gri gri's fault, just user error. IMHO I think it's more about trusting who is belaying you rather than the belay device.
@@JoBiancoWhen you say he opened the GriGri all the way up do you mean he pulled the lowering lever too far? Which would be the main thing that the + doesn't allow to happen? Thanks
I think GriGri + works really well for me because it allows me to give it to any of my friends who are not very practiced as belayers without the fear of falling (at least not too fast), and I think it's really good to have settings for top-roping or leading depending on the situation
Its ok for gyms with new climbers it sucks with everything else I've only had one incident since its been out where I was like the gri-gri plus may have been nice this was while setting though.
Figured I must be doing something wrong the first time I used one of these in the gym. Seemed like a big downgrade to me compared to the original, as it gives slack at a glacial pace and constantly locks up.
The complaints about lowering are legit. The top rope mode is not super useful. Even if you’re belaying someone in a gym. The anti panic feature is a annoying sometimes. But it’s still a gri gri. 90% of the time it acts like every other iteration of the device.
I personally think this is yet another way to alleviate idiots hurting each other. I fully understand this function in a Petzl I'd for rescue purposes but I would rather teach belaying using a traditional plate device before teaching it using an assisted braking device. The only place I see this as useful is in a group setting with beginners that are just there to climb and not on a climbing course.
I got one thinking it was the same grigri jsut newer generation and hate using because of the lowering it’s super slow especially using gym ropes that are thicker I keep it in my bag in case I need an inexperienced belay partner any other belay device is more efficient and easier to use
Definitely don’t like this feature particularly lowering when there’s high friction like a traversing route and your climber is lightweight, you may need that lever to be all the way open just to lower but with this it might be near impossible to lower under those circumstances, which is not ideal for the less experienced belayer that these are marketed towards. I’m glad I don’t have one and I wouldn’t really recommend this product over the regular grigri. The benefits this ABD provides are all things you can and should learn and train on the regular grigri.
Cool engineering, except adding a feature because of a common failure mode feels like a patch, not a solution. I'm sad the legacy of the grigri keeps people using an inferior product. Assisted breaking devices like the Edelrid Jul or the BD Pilot, have fewer failure states, are simpler, lighter and a quarter the cost.
I hear people say that and a video done by Hard is Easy where he compares the failure modes of different belay devices, show something different. The specific two you mentioned actually have a much high risk of failure, and while the grigri isn't the best at mitigating falls it is by far not more risky than the pilot or jul. It's a great video! I recommend every climber to watch it.
@@things_are_iffy Thanks for your reply, I'm going to put here my full thoughts on this topic so sorry about the excessive length. First off, I want to acknowledge that all common belay devices when used properly are safe. This even applies to old tubular device, so when I look to compare safety I’m interested in the failure modes. How many failure modes are there? What is the likelihood of entering a failure mode? What is the severity associated with the failure mode? I have watched Hard is Easy's video. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-v8pEe5X1-Lc.html He covered 3 common failure modes, and graded 10 devices on these modes. Do notice that his conclusion at 20:55 did rank the Edelrid Jul and the Mammut Smart 2.0+smarter, both assisted tube style devices above the Petzl GriGri. You are correct that he ranked the Black Diamond Pilot lower than the GriGri. As he states in the video “this list is not what you should base your buying decisions on, and this is not how I chose my belay devices.” 21:14 Here is what I base my buying decisions on. The three failure modes that I think are most common and consequential for assisted braking devices are as follows. 1) Climber falls while the brake is disengaged. 2) An unanticipated fall when the belayer is out of line of sight or distracted. 3) Break disengagement when lowing. These are the failure modes that I find are the most common, usually due to the fact that humans are imperfect. I make sure my belayer is good enough to never take their hand off the break rope and has been taught best practices but I do not expect they will react perfectly or maintain active concentration all the time. While an attentive belayer is the most obvious way to improve safety, everyone reading this has been belaying and looked away from their climber at some point. Because of this the first two failure modes are going to happen and we should minimize and anticipate these situations. I’m not intimately familiar with all devices so I would like to limit my thoughts on the two devices I’m most familiar with, the GriGri2 and the Jul2. Mode 1) For the GriGri the belayer needs to release the cam most often being pressed down by the thumb. For the Jul2 the belayer needs to no longer pull up and out on the thumb loop. For both devices moving one's hand in the direction of a breaking position is the best solution. But when the fall is unexpected as is often the case when giving slack, the instinctual reaction is to tighten one's grip and tense inwards. This works to the advantage of the Jul2 as the belayer doesn’t need to remove the thumb from the loop, just move the hand down or inward. This is not good in the case of the GriGri as a tightened grip keeps the cam deactivated. I think most people who have climbed for a decade or more have seen this happen to them or someone in their gym. Here is an example. ru-vid.comLLHfXH6Unm4 Mode 2) This is where assisted braking devices shine. The device will catch the climber if the belayer simply keeps their hand on the break strand and does not deactivate the device. For the GriGri this means keeping one's thumb off the cam. If you look at some lead belayers you will see that keeping a thumb on the cam is far too common. It’s a comfortable place to rest one's hand and feeding rope out quickly is easier so many form the bad habit. This could happen with the Jul2 if someone kept their thumb pushed up and out on the loop continuously. The fact that disengaging the break is an active position means no one keeps this position long and you don’t see this bad habit with the Jul or Pilot or Smart. This is the big win for these devices. I don’t need to hope my belayer doesn't have this bad habit that is so common with the GriGri. Mode 3) When lowering the break needs to be partly disengaged and familiarity with a device is the best way to stay safe here but I think the Jul has 2 advantages. First, Jul2 is less awkward and less complicated. No levers, no cam, no need for extra safety features like in the above video. Second, the Jul2 not only allows two hands on the break rope when lowering but it feels natural since the rope is coming out the front of the device. The GriGri doesn't allow two hands on the brake rope when lowering, and requires you to balance both your brake strand and the cam lever at the same time. To add to this here are two Hard is Easy videos about failure modes unique to the GriGri. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wz1PTbjQ3pc.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-We-nxljgnw4.html For these reasons I think the Jul2 and similar devices are significantly safer than the GriGri, all else equal. Please let me know if you disagree and why.
@@benh9781 I can't really say if I agree or disagree because I've only used the grigri and am relatively new to belaying. I was more here exploring all the different belay devices and since my gym strongly encouraged the grigri, I need to fish for opinions about other belay devices elsewhere and all the pros and cons. I appreciate the long break down that you did for the jul and grigri though. I think with my limited experience, I look at what is easiest to keep best practice on the device, and if you're not doing it, how well will the device handle your mistake.
Everyone accustomed to belaying with any other device thinks this is an unnecessary toy to sell to suburban mothers to keep their kids safer at the gym.
i think we should address why people are nervous in the first place, arno would not be pleased be careful out there, especially if you're taking some spaz
I know a lot people struggle with lowering with the GriGri+. At the end of this article Petzl offers a potential solution: www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Triggering-the-anti-panic-handle?ProductName=GRIGRI-PLUS
