This is a comparison of .223 Remington, 22 Nosler, 224 Valkyrie, and 6.5 Grendel. Which one is the perfect cartridge for you AR-15? It depends on your needs. / johnnysreloadingbench / reloading
A few years ago, a friend let me bust a few rounds from his AR in 6.5 Grendel (6.7 actual!). It was love at first ring of the steel for me! 5 for 5 at 500 yards! The more research I did into this cartridge, the more I had to have one. I chose a 20" HBAR, as Grendel likes a longer barrel. NO REGRETS!!! With Grendel, I feel the AR has finally grown up. A true Rifle with the capability to reach out several hundred yards. And with less than half the recoil of a .308! Grendel is now my GO TO platform.
The AR platform is an engineering marvel. I do not care for it. I won't own one. My 6.5 Grendel began life as a Mini-30. It is easily a better rifle than a 6.5 Grendel AR. If I were going to own a .224 Valkyrie. I disagree with your proclamation that owning a .223. I don't really see a use for .223/5.56. The 6.5 Grendel is best for me since I have 2 excellent 6.5x55 SE Mausers.
Im probably the only person here, but i shoot the 6.5 Grendel in a bolt action rifle. And i really love the cartridge. Huge performance in such a small good looking package. Plus no recoil. Im a bolt gun fanatic.
I just got a howa 1500 in .300 blk out for suppressor use when I get approved. On month 5 right now. Ive been eyeing another in either 6.5 grendel or 7.62x39. I love those mini action howas.
Took me about 400 rounds to figure out the 224 Valkyrie. I really like the way it shoots, but I only shoot steel and paper with it so far. Settled on the 88 ELD and RL-19. The secret for me was overall length. Once I loaded to magazine length, the groups shrank to sub MOA. Built a 6.8 SPC 16" light barrel and love it. Way more energy for Hogs and Deer over the 223. And yes, I have shot and killed deer with the .223 Wylde, but I shoot 70 gr Barnes bullets and they do a very nice job on deer and hogs here in Texas. I am building a light barreled 6.5 Grendel this weekend and expect good things from it as well. I finally got on the AR band wagon a few years back and now I am fully bought in. I have set up all my AR's essentially the same to accept the clip on night vision as well. Very little recoil, magazine fed, reliable...all are great guns to take in the woods or punch holes and ring steel. Johnny's channel has also inspired me to hand load for all my rifles.
Love how you mentioned the backyard commando and “tactical” scam. So crazy how people buy the “cool factor” and will buy anything with a “tactical” stamp on it.
One of the best thought out and information backed cartridge/ reloading video's I have ever seen. Your knowledge coupled with experience+time+testing=trustworthy, dependable, and knowledgeable data. A formula rarely found on RU-vid. Your channel will be shared with many. Thank you for your dedication and time invested in these video's.
It's only been a little over a year, but remaking/updating this video might make sense. Your suggestion for folks to first get a well functioning 223 rifle is excellent. We know there are hundreds of thousands of first time gun buyers who just bought a decent 223, but they want to know what else they can do with it. Buying a quality upper for varminting (22 Nosler) or deer hunting (6.5 Grendel) or long range precision (6mm ARC) is very appealing for folks with limited budgets. An expanded comparison with Hornady 6mm ARC and 300 Blackout would be very helpful. I notice you've been gone for 5 months now, I hope everything is good with you and your family. Take care,
@@casedismissedguaranteed49 isn't he talking about funny looking sponsored jackets that people wear at shooting competitions, not the military? Secondly, how is he making fun of the funny looking jackets, when he clearly said those are the guys to get info from?
My 3 best AR15 cartridges: .300BO, 6.5G, and .458 SOCOM. With careful shopping you can have them all for a grand. A single, reliable acting lower, and no lack of compromise if unlawfully confronted. And the .458 can be subbed as well. I'm avoiding the 223/556 due to potential chambering issues with the BO. So, one becomes three. Subtle to devastating. Minimal spare parts requirement. :-)
@@casedismissedguaranteed49 First off, Creedmore is a short action cartridge while the Ar-15 can only accept mini action cartridges. So Creedmore doesen't apply here. Sevond, in a short action rifle 6.5 PRC blows 6.5 Creedmore out of the water in every way possible. So in reality 6.5 Creedmore actualy wins nothing.
For the first time ever I've thought I might like to pick up an AR-15 (not a knock, just haven't picked up shooting with a carbine is all): Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendel Hunter. Dunno, the 6.5 Grendel Hunter from Alexander Arms has caught my attention, and I'm somewhat fascinated with the Grendel round that can turn an 18" barrel rifle into a 1000-yard shooter. I'm a complete novice mind you, but it seems there's something to a round that stays supersonic at 1,200-ish yards I think it is. Anyway, thanks for the vid.
A great video Johnny, it really gets to the meat of what's the better caliber for the AR platform based upon needs. I really appreciate the detailed pros and cons concerning bullet weights and case longevity for the new offerings. Thank you.
Johnny. I gotta give ya 2 thumbs up! I have been listening and watching your vids about 2 months now. Mostly at work on company computer 😵😵 anyhow you know your stuff and give a lot of great info. Thanks for your time amd effort.
I've said once and i will say it agian, Johnny your sir are my hero. Great info and outstanding for anyone who was on the fence about what caliber to go with. The Grendel all day and Twice on Sunday. Truly the most versatile cartridge for the AR15 platform. Love my 6.5G laod with the 130gr Berger AR Hybrid moving out at around 2500fps the Grendel is a great 1000-1300 yard round. Would love to see you get into the 3 big bore AR15 ( 50 Beowulf, 458 SoCom and 450 Bushmaster) rounds at some point. But whatever content you put out is always gold!!!
I'm still shocked by how well 6.5 Grendel has held up over the years. Still the best ar15 platform round. 224 valk was supposed to dethrone it but it didn't, and same with 6mm arc. Performs great out of 12" barrels and does incredible with 16-20" barrels. Great for deer, hogs, coyote, etc. Has the best long range ballistics, and is in the top 3 for energy close range
6.8 is good enough for the DoD....a good intermediate round IMHO and 600 yards is the sweet-spot for most of us. (IOW can't hit shit past 500 yards anyway.)
Johnny, I have just recently started with 6.5 Grendel, and it's your channel that I reference for most of my information on this clambering. The hardest thing about the Grendel is that it is not as popular as the Creedmore, but I didn't want to get into an AR10 rifle. Thank you for all of your videos on the Grendel. Very mild shooting cartridge, and as soon as I can get a supply of brass, I'm hoping to show a lot more reloading and shooting videos on my channel. Good stuff, sir
We should add an addendum of listing the awesome cartridges of .223, of course we have the .300 blkout and the awesome 22TCM! I recently learned of .22TCM while shopping reviews of the new Ruger 5.7. This awesome little pistol cartridge based on the .223 case cut and re-necked to .22 fires a 40 grain round out of a 17 shot 1911 at 2100+ FPS! Basically nearly the same as the 5.7! This smokes .22WMR by 250 FPS and 100 FtLbs! (it has roughly 400ft lbs of energy!) I have just found my next pistol that can be reloaded for cheap! There are rifles made for this amazing little caliber also. I will even get over my disdain for the poor politics of Illinois,Rock River Arms Co.who makes them. I see 1000 rounds .22TCM loaded are 149.95 or 200 rounds loaded sell for 31.99! Also we can reload it ourselves cheap! Lee and Hornady make dies! How did I miss this .22TCP ? I nearly bought a crappy trigger, expensive ammo, and hard to reload 5.7 cal Ruger. The 2 calibers handguns are about the same price, but the savings will continue forever with .223 based .22TCM! As a bonus the Rock River Arms 1911 handguns also come with a free 9mm barrel and a decent trigger that can be made like glass! Something FN and Ruger will never have with the 5.7.
Great point of view and summary from previous experience. Watching your 22 Nosler, 224 Val, and 6.5 Grendel videos my pick of the three is leaning towards 6.5 Grendel for the next upper. This video also gave me a lot to consider when deciding which cartridge to pick, other than 308, in a large frame AR. 260 Rem, 6.5 Creed, and 7mm-08 are in mind. More and more it seems like the mindset needs to be pick what bullet you want to shoot first and for what purpose then pick the cartridge best suited to shoot it.
Just finished my .224 Valkyrie build with a Wilson Combat 20" barrel with 1-6.5" twist, and first 10 shot group with factory Federal 90g smk had 8 of 10 shots inside 1" Number 8 landed 1" out of the group, right where my crosshairs were when I let it go, and shot 9 landed 1/8" low of the main group and pretty sure it was me. So far I am pleased, especially with almost everyone else having issues. I'll know more this spring when I can put more rounds through it.
Thank you for the great info. After watching I feel I made a good decision going with the 224 Valkyrie over the 22 nosler. And limiting the 223 to 77 grain. I have a bolt AR with 24" barrel 1-7 twist and plan on shooting 62gn to 77gn bullets. and shooting > 77gn in the 224 Valkyrie, also 24"barrel.
Your idea about how people should use the pictures on the company website to determine who you're going to buy a barrel from is great, Really spot on! Guess I've thought about that subconsciously, but never put it in those words. Definitely going to plagiarize the term.
To really make the right decision on what rifle calibers are the best choices for you is to be completely honest about what is it that you are going to used it for and want to accomplish . Know what is the maximum range you can shoot where you live , how often are you going to go out and shoot and be completely honest with yourself about your goal ( AND A SUPER IMPORTANT POINT IS TO MENTION HOW MUCH MONEY YOU ARE WILLING TO INVEST IN THIS PROJECTS) could be hunting, sports, plinking, self defense, etc. I own almost all the ar15 platform rifle calibers just missing a couple (I really don't think I'm going to get them [ shot them plentiful and if I own them they wouldn't be shot that often ].... I own all kinds of rifles ( new and old. Ww1 ww2 and present times, bolt action, long barrels , short ones. Ar10,,, in different calibers, etc.) I have shot almost all calibers available in the gun world. Accuracy is my passion , every shot counts.... pushing the limits and learning how to place a shot right where you want it or need it to hit is my SPECIFIC goal!!! Is fun to learn about ballistic performance and accuracy along with the new technology that is becoming available to own!!! also own quite a few pellet rifles and let me tell you that is quite a challenge to really understand the perfomance of these guns which by the way they are no toys, some of them are as expensive and deadly ( at 10 to 15 yards) as an ar15. AND JUST LIKE ANY GUN JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE EXPENSIVE DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE GOING TO BE INCREDIBLY ACCURATE OUT OF THE BOX. And yes the ones that are not so expensive can be amazingly accurate as well. But u have to find the pellet that you barrel likes. MOST IMPORTANTLY OF ALL IS: UNDERSTANDING THAT IF YOU WANT TO BE CONSTANTLY HITTING ON TARGET U NEED TO FIND THE BULLET WEIGHT AND BRAND YOUR RIFLE LIKES. UNDERSTAND THAT A WELL PLACED SHOT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE BEEN PRACTICING:AND UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU AND YOUR RIFLE BECOME ONE.... BREATHING , TRIGGER PULL, KNOWING HOW USE YOUR SCOPE (IF YOU USE ONE) OR IRON SIGHTS . AND UNDERSTANDING BALLISTICS AND HOW THE BULLETS THAT YOU CHOSE PERFORM IN YOUR RIFLE. there is lots and lots of talk about bullet performance out there.... realistically any caliber is potentially deadly for hunting. Shot placing is specially important, distance, etc. In reality the great majority of hunting kills happens between 30 to a 150 yards away from the shooter.
I think people buy into marketing to much. The 6.5X47 and 260 Remington were out before the 6.5 creedmoor but hornady marketed it well. If people already reload a bullet in a rifle cartridge they should just get an AR cartridge that uses the same or similar weight bullet. I agree that most target and hunting distances are limited to where the differences in most cartridges is negligible.
As usual a great video Johnny thanks for all the information! I have built both, a great shooting 223 with a 16 inch Wyld barrel, and a great shooting 18 inch Grendel. So glad that I didn't jump on the 224 Valkyrie or 22 Nosler band wagon. I love reloading and buying cases all the time can get expensive. I also got an 18 inch 300 Ham"r barrel from Wilson Combat and love shooting a 30 caliber with ballistic comparison to a proven 30/30 cartridge, like a 300 Blackout on steroids just no sub sonic loads, but I have my 300 Blackouts for that.
I love my Rock River AR15 .223 wylde .25" 100 yds three round groups out of the box. Full disclosure they were my own personal handloads. Oh yea great video first time watcher
Love the Grendel. I'm getting 1/2 moa out of mine out to 400 yds with several different loads including my whitetail load that pushes a 105gr MKZ over 2700 fps. It's did a great job on Indiana whitetail this year.
Good stuff as always. I enjoyed the comparison. I agree that is all depends on what you want to do. I think they all have their place in the lineup somewhere. I am shooting and reloading for the .224 Valkyrie. Also agree with the brass life issue, hoping at some point that will get sorted out. Only time will tell.
Can't beat the 6.5 grendel I love mine IV taken many white tail with it bullet selection is great and wolf ammo is only 230$ for 1000rds. Plus 1200yd range can't beat it
Thank you for the explanation. Most other just foamed in the mouth and talking about things that don't even matter. Or just making up stuff. But you are the best !!!
I'm looking at a 6.5 grendel. Washington state doesn't allow hunting with a 5.56, .22 nozler or the .224 valkary. So looking to replace my 5.56 with a general purpose rifle I can hunt with and be a defense rifle. 6.5 meets this.
6.5 Grendel would be great for hunting but I would still stay with your 556 upper and get some good factory rounds that expand well. I think the 6.5 Grendel is great for long range over 556 but steel core 556 would be a great self defense round. I know a guy that was in the military and the green tip could go through a Humvee windshield and a standard 7.62x39 round wouldn't.
If 6.5 meets your requirements for a hunting rifle, go with that. I'm sure it will still work just fine, as long as you don't have any neighbors right beside your walls.
6.5 is e xelent for hunting I use mine more than any other rifle plus it out performs 556 in every single way. Ps u can find good defence ammo that won't over penetrate like Underwood controlled chaos
Try blowing out the .223 case to a straight walled case to .355--.358 diameter bullet diameter that can be saboted back to use a .243 diameter bullet centered into the bore and check out the internal ballistics which will also gain a lot of external ballistics while still using near stock magazines. The stock formula is easy to find to predict how much better than the 30 caliber blackout
Excellent video, Johnny you did a great job explaining the differences and the pros and cons I would have to agree 223/556 is definitely the way to start out.
Thank you for making this a separate video. I may not have watched one on the 22 Nosler or 224. They are not solid hits on my radar. I am working on a 223 Wylde, 300 Blackout and a 7.62x 39 builds and am really interested in the 6.5 Grendel, maybe next. And since I reload, your input on the brass issues really solidified my choices. Thanks again.
Spot on, 223/556 first... Now I understand what you were saying about the 22noz, and the 224v being different animals. thanks... the confusion over the 6.5g type 1 or 2 bolt face, along with the type 1 or 2 chamber/throat, (chaos), being all but over, seems like it's really a better choice. all that confusion didn't do the 6.5g any favors with peoples opinions. I like that I can buy cheap, bulk, Wolf ammo for the 6.5g for plinking while hand loading the good stuff for hunting and accuracy. not much different than the 223/556. excellent vid, thanks.
Thanks Johnny!! Great video. I always learn so much from your videos. Keep up the excellent work. I do, however, take issue with your "goofy shooting jackets" comment... :D
I own a 20", 16", and 10.5" Grendel. Built the last two myself. Love the 6.5. Next build is going to be a 22 Grendel, just because I can. Heard it gets better results than the 224 Val, and isn't having the accuracy issues folks are seeing with the 224 Val. I never shoot my 5.56 or 7.62x39 anymore. The Grendel does it all well. Keep up the great work Johnny!
MattFrmSac - 20” Odin Works 1:8 twist. 416R Stainless, Rifle Length gas port, that came with Odin Works BCG and an adjustable low profile Gas block that I’ve set opened up 45% flow for Suppression and Using a load work up as follows: - 30.8 gr of BL-C (2), Hornady Brass trimmed to 1.511”, CCI 450 Magnum primer. The COAL utilizing the Hornady 123gr ELD came out to 2.260”. This combo yielded 5 rounds that created one hole group that measured 0.457” in diameter Actual Velocity: 2,451 fps SD: 14.6. Did this just today. I own (2) 300 AAC BLK (also thanks to Johnny) and ROCK RIVER “Operator” 5.56 NATO ARs. Love that Grendel! Optic is the Sig Sauer BDX 5-14X44 “Sierra 3” that pairs via blue tooth to a phone app and the “Kilo 1800 BDX” range finder and provides your fire solution electronically to your crosshairs and lights up the correct ballistic holdover mark inside the reticle, which takes all the guess work out and provides the perfect point of impact. Essentially, making you look like a Rock Star at the range as you smack bullseyes all day long!
MattFrmSac The 16" BHW barreled rifle is my do everything Grendel. I mostly use the 20" AA GDMR for longer range target and varmint shooting. The 10.5" BHW barreled pistol is my truck gun. I travel a lot to some pretty remote places, and a 10.5" Grendel will reach out to 300 yards with some decent energy. Don't feel under-gunned even though it is such a concealable weapon.
MattFrmSac Forgot to mention optics. I use a 4-14 IOR w/MP8 on the 20". Minox 1-8 on the 16". ACOG 1.5 w/ ACSS on the 10.5". Have an OSS Helix Ti, that I mount on the 16 and 10.5. My preference is to stick with an 18" or 16" barrel. Don't give up much, and easier and lighter to carry around.
I use starline in 224 Valkyrie and I have not had any problems with the primer pockets.. although I did when I started this cartridge o 5 moths ago but now no issues at all.. great fun...
The most insightful group on how to reload the Valkyrie is the Facebook group Valkyrie Ascending focused on reloading this cartridge since it came out there is over 2+ years ago with tons of knowledge in the group.. facebook.com/groups/398943407218038/
Honestly, when it comes to the AR 15, I think Grendle and 5.56 are all you need to know. One should be a lightweight 16" carbine for SHTF and one should be a 20" rifle built to be as accurate as possible for hunting and ringing steel targets out to obscene distances.
This video has got everyone talking in the comments. I love the 223/556 and thrive on pushing it out down range. I also shoot 308 the same way. Have always been curious about the middle ground between 223/?/308. The Grendel seems to be that cartridge, and will be a build for me in the future. Thanks Johnny for your videos, it would take me way longer with more expense to get where I need to be.
Yes I love the 6.5 grendel IV taken many white tail with it it shoots 1200yds it's cheaper than the other cartridges wolf makes ammo 230$for 1000 mine gun shoots 11/2 in groups with it. and u can get really good bullet selection from 90grn to 147grain and higher and it has exelent barrel life
Sadly I can’t have a AR15 because I live in Canada but I have a tikka t3x in 223 and it’s a ton of fun for coyotes and prairie dogs. I love the 223 it’s a good price with decent ballistics.
I agree with your cartridge choice and Kentucky is a great state for nice deer. My age and CWD has put a damper on my hunting. Thanks and have a good one 👍
The Grendel is the way to go. Especially as long as we can still get the cheap import Russian ammo. I know this is a reloading channel but sometimes it's just fun to go out with some friends and blast away for an afternoon
Well- i pulled the trigger on a 24in 22nosler frm cmmg-could nt be happier! .6 groups all day from cool barrel. No brass problems- 52gr @3750 & 70gr nosler ammo @3150 ! 52s turn coyotes inside out! 70gr trophy drop hogs & javelina DRT !
I'm a little confused cause I'm shooting 120-140grn bullets out of my grendel how does 224 valkyrie with its 60-90grn 22 cal bullet on avg longer and heavier? Heavy for caliber ? U mean ? Sure...
From my understanding (which admittedly isn't a ton) 224 supposedly performs better at longer ranges than 223. 300 yards plus, it seems like a round for long target shooters.
So my first ar15 was 556 bushmaster Carbon15, it has a pencil barrel with a 1/9twist and coasted 500 bucks. And it shoots better then expected. However i recently bought a 300 blackout with a 16inch barrel that have fallen in love with. So now i got me a silencer and a new saint spring field armory pistol in 300 black oht and i love it. I may be building a ar10 pistol soon
i like shooting the heavier .224Val for varmints and medium to large game also have hunted with my 125gr 7.62x39 on hogs at 150 to 250yrds.i also have two M4s in different twists with 1-7 and 1-9 twist rates and have a lot of fun with those.I 5think u sold me on a 6.5Grendel! LOL thats my next AR i want one in every caliber lol. Then ill start on AR 10s lol my wife was wonder i bought a 14gun gun cabinet....At the time my long guns were spread around my den in gun socks.I filled it 1/2 way when i finally put them in it!LOL and im still going strong i just added the 76.2x39 and havnt even had a chance to shoot it yet? lol great video keep it up bro!
I found this fascinating and I don't even shoot rifles, and certainly don't re-load. Learnt a lot in this one video. One thing that perplexes me is that for YEARS I thought .223 and 5.56 were the exact same thing - just one expressed in inches (civilian) and the other metric (military). But recently I discovered that there are differences, like 5.56 slightly more powerful. Maybe Johnny has a video on this.