@@mrmusiclover87 Correct. However, that does not mean that the allegations themselves would, during the trial, not have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be false. It is in that case that the false-accuser should be punished.
@@louloubrow2171 First of all, no, it's technically not, as "innocent" and "not guilty" do not mean the same thing in a court of law. Secondly, my point is that whether he is found guilty or not, doesn't mean the allegations themselves are false. Remember the oj Simpson trial?
this is the best comment that ive ever read. because that would be the biggest impact in our society. I find it really sad that you only have....22 likes on this one.
That's not the answer. For a basic example, imagine the amber heard case. Depp was found guilty in the UK and by doing so they would be reporting on a lawful ( even if unjust) ruling. So after the us courts deemed him innocent the former journalism would now be deemed retrospectively accusations not fact. You can't control free speech. Also every country has different laws so who's going to hold these people accountable in this situation you put forward? Media should not be censored but it should be accountable for slander or held accountable for intentional misdirection.
I agree with that. The problem is the freedom of information act. Court records are public. I really think that legal accusations against anyone should not be public unless there's a conviction or judgement upholding the allegations.
Grace saying, "they know what the risks of being in the limelight are", is essentially the same thing as blaming a rape victim for having been dressed in revealing clothing. Disgusting!
Grace is obviously in a wrong show. Having low IQ and limited vocabulary she would be a better fit in a cable TV show about painting nails. Piers, I understand you have to show the "Other sides" opinion but at least get someone capable of having one :)
Women can say such things flippantly because they very rarely end up in such a scenario. They typically do the blame came, false rape etc. How may guys' lives have been destroyed through liars, typically from women but also men like here? They should be banged up. End of!
I almost lost a job once because a female coworker jokingly said that I had said something inappropriate to her that a manager took seriously. Fortunately, that coworker made it clear that she was making a joke and that I had not said anything inappropriate.
I had the police interview me, my daughter and my ex wife after a disgruntled customer told them I was a p d file because I wouldn't give her a refund which she wasn't entitled to. Yes she should've been charged for lying and wasting police time
@@MonoLith2049when I was 13 me and 6 friends got accused of a gang rape. It was by a girl in my neighbourhood that I had never interacted with in my life, I didn’t even know her. It was a big thing with police trying to pressure us to admit to it. Luckily after a couple weeks she ended up admitting to making up the whole story, she said she did it because she didn’t think anybody cared about her - I still don’t understand it tho, why that was what she decided to do. Some people are seriously twisted But I’m lucky she admitted to it, if she didn’t then I could have been known as some kind of freak sex criminal False accusations are evil
Man, my heart breaks for Kevin Spacey, such a wonderful and talented actor. But he is so supreme I do hope we can see more of him, we need good art and he is a master of his!
In a case of he said she said it's hard to "prove" a victim is lying. Often there just isn't enough evidence to convict. That's why "not found guilty" doesn't mean by default "innocent". Although I know nothing of this case so I'm not specifically referencing it when I say that...
there was a girl going around doing this to guys who turned her down and eventually the men counter sued for false allegations, loss of work defamation of character and won
Cosby show is ugly as the guy himself. Kevin Spacey as an actor is phenomenal and on all the sexual allegations on Spacey I knew from the start most were from the bad reading of all these people Spacey might have flirted with or approached and those gay dudes thought it was grabbing crotch or what not. It's the same when u call a women and touch her shoulder she alleges you have harassed her like wtf?
After enduring 6 years of being treated as guilty until proven innocent I hope he sues House Of Cards and those who cancelled him for millions! The people who made the false charges against him should be in prison. I am not saying this because I am a KS fan, but because we ALL need to live with the basic legal right of being presumed innocent until proven guilty, otherwise our entire justice system falls apart and any one of us can be wrongfully accused of anything and cancelled!
Kevin was presumed innocent ... he wasn't being kept in jail during trial. The general public had all sorts of theories but that is part of the cost of celebrity.
I’m in a movie with Kevin in 2024 and knew this was nothing more than Celebrity Extortion. He’ll be back, in fact on March 22, 2024 in Peter Five Eight. I’m proud to be in this movie with him. Jack Trout
This is why Johnny Depp asked for Cameras in the court room. If he had not he would not have gotten his reputation back and his victory would have been swept under the rug.
I believe Johnny Depp decision is why the judges and jury are deciding not to just believe so called accuser. We and especially Men better thank that dude
This is a problem for many men. Accusations equal guilty. And then to just say "well he got off with it" rather than hes innocent. Its a terrible shame.
There's A difference between proven innocent and found not guilty. In the united states anyway. It means that there is no proof but it doesn't necessarily mean a crime didn't happen. Think OJ.
me too, didn't find out until stumbling across this video by complete accident. crazy how news about him being accused was everything then complete silence when he was acquitted.
There's a reason- it's just not been truly exposed. He's upset the machine for some reason, it's just the machine doing what it does best- destruction of an enemy without mercy
It's true that that there's a difference between "not guilty" and "innoccent", but the man has beaten every legal case brought against him. You don't have to like him, but at some point you have to acknowledge that his life seems to have been taken away from him unfairly.
If you believe in the principle of "innocent until proven guilty" then by implication "not guilty" and "innocent" are one and the same, because "innocent" is the default position , until guilt is proven. If guilt is not proven then innocent remains.
@iykeharrison9161 not true. You're never found innocent only not guilty. The not guilty is usually due to lack of evidence. If you want to be found innocent you have to file a petition to the courts ince found not guilty. It's never given really. Not guilty means the prosecutions case couldn't be made
@@iykeharrison9161???? No, they're not actually the same. "Innocent" isn't one of the choices given to a jury. "Not guilty" means that the prosecution did not meet it's burden of proof to support a guilty verdict.
For decades, at least 30 years, I have cautioned young men about whom they spend time with because of how easily someone can accuse them of inappropriate touching (often a grudgeful woman) ,and even their closest friends will have lingering doubts. Men can never successfully defend himself against horrid accusations, the accusing alone leaves a stink, even if it is untrue.
Making false allegations should carry a criminal sentence. You can't just go around accusing ppl of heinous crimes they haven't done without consequences. In print media that is libel even on modest character questioning. These were sickening allegations
You do know his on epsteins flight log right? His a very powerful man and his been exposed multiple times. Look at epsteim he was found not guilty many times and well we know what happened there.
@@BRITAINSFINEST24 being on a flight log doesn't make you guilty. Everyone should have the right of innocent until proven guilty. Imagine if you were falsely accused of something, would you just accept it and be happy because there is subjective evidence out there?
@Jack-dg6ky We all know everyone who got on that private plane knew about or took part in the heinous crimes epstein committed. He's been exposed for it multiple times. And if you can't see how guilty he is, then you need to wake up and step into reality. Jeffery epsteim was found not guilty many times before his arrest. Was he innocent? The guy has money and is a powerful man. Of course, he's gonna get off with it. I've been falsely accused before ya point is? I still deal with the mental problems it's caused me to this day. There's no argument to make there.
Incredible, I had no idea the great Kevin Spacey had been exonerated! I am so happy to hear he has been proven innocent time and again. I do hope he then does something about suing those who alleged those awful things about him. People need to have consequences (both, personal and economic) for their false accusations.
This problem is easily solved. "Guilty and the accused is punished. "Not proven" and the case is dismissed. "Innocent" and the accuser is punished for bearing false witness. Can it really be that difficult.
The accusation of women against men would drop like an asteroid from the sky, and women would think twice before ruining innocent men’s lives with endless false allegations.
@@HolyRainbowism One woman accused a footballer she was dating of rape. The charges were dropped, she reunited with him. And now has a baby by him. Bizarre!
My brother got assault charges brought against him for restraining a woman by the wrists while she was punching him .. she called the cops and he didnt . . He beat the charges after a yr of not being able to see his kid. But no repercussions for her false claim.. he got called a woman basher and it was all very humiliating for him. I dont think hes been the same since.
It’s very true, I remember when he was first accused he was everywhere, the main media, social media and even some celebrities talked about him. But I didn’t even know or heard that he was exonerated last year 😢
I find the ease with which people attack others on social media really unpleasant. When I speak out against this, I too am attacked. There are a lot of sad people who seem to enjoy being poisonous.
Imagine if a shop keeper put someone’s slanderous messages in their shop window. Prosecuted straight away. Why are Social Media companies getting away with it?
Well said! We live among many liars, people who have been lying for years and attempting to destroy people with lies.. This needs to stop, there should be penalties for the liars.
I'm glad the truth has come out. Kevin Spacey is an actor I've admired since the 80's, and you have to search very hard to find a villain as sinister as Jonathan Doe in Se7en. I'm real pleased for him.
Douglas Murray is so well-spoken and puts his arguments forward in such a reasoned way, he makes that screechy female look even more ridulous, speaking of being in the public eye. These ppl who make up stories need to prosecuted. What a waste of court time, money and resources. This very thing happened to a hugely popular media personality in Canada. At the height of "Me Too", two women conspired against him. Despite being found "not guilty" and the women proven as liars, his career was never revived. Those women needed to be prosecuted for perjury.
Really pleased for Kevin. The CPS should now be thoroughly punished for pursuing a case with zero merit. We need more than "lessons learnt" or "resignations". We need a publically visible prosecution of those who brought this case and those who made these false accusations. Each one should serve the same prison sentence Kevin would have faced. Austentatious Horror is now my new favourite phrase.
If the allegations were all false, that is quite disturbing and the claimants should go to prison. They have not only harmed Spacey, but all actual victims of sexual assault.
Now, a jury should decide on what to do with these people, who are falsely accusing others, of this heinous crime. This will continue to happen to men until somebody charges these “innocent people” with the lies that ruin lives!!
Douglas is absolutely right, as usual. I’m in the US and I never knew until this broadcast that Kevin Spacey was exonerated in the US. What I remember vividly is the accusation and the rewriting of house of cards to write him out of it. It was a terrible shame, because it was a fascinating and unusual program. Very well written and unfortunately, Kevin Spacey didn’t help his cause by immediately outing himself as gay is so that with a real crime. He should not have done that. He felt that his viewers would be more upset that he was gay, and they were with him grooming a younger man. This is been several years back now. So the time in between the revelation and his exoneration here in the US was dramatic. Perhaps Spacey should have had his publicist call in favors to have a press gaggle at the court once he was exonerated, as shown here this week in the UK. I’m afraid I have to agree that is fall from Grace is too far gone, just like Phil Schofield. The greater sin is the grooming, and both gay men thought so too.
Looking for money or fame by trashing someone's reputation is despicable and should be prosecuted. Douglas Murray hit the nail on the head, as he always does, and good for Piers Morgan for highlighting this.
Same happened to me in south africa. Falsely charged for a murder that I had nothing to do with , withdrawn by a court, yet guilty to this very day 30years later by people. Unreal.
They arent lying.....I was on set with Spacey im Sydney Australia on the set of Superman returns and he is GUILTY;;;;;;;I guarantee you. He is a predator
I cant stand people saying " An acquittal doesnt mean innocent". The burden of proving guilt beyong a reasonable doubt is on the prosecutor. It is not the defendant who must prove their innocence. Innocent until proven guilty, never forget that!!!
I’m not famous or wealthy but I know what it’s like to have people want to bring you down so badly that they will do anything. Some humans are disgusting and pathetic creatures and they need to face justice for making false allegations.
Some joke !? Did any of You comenting here ever been a victim of a narcistic predator ? Mabe try it … See this so many times people suporting and admire narcistic predators
He absolutely did this. Not being found guilty isn’t the same as innocent. Is OJ? What about Casey Anthony. Hell Bill Cosby is free. In 2012 in Beijing I was on a 1 eeek tour of China. One drunken night in Beijing One of the guys on my trip who was a 19 year old British guy who was went to a posh acting school and did mostly theatre plays told all of us about gropey Kevin Spacey. And how his type was late teens/early 20s guys. He was straight and he told the story about being trapped and groped. Only to find this was a thing everyone talked about and knew about. He said that people had now started warning each other and not to take Kevin up on his “mentorship”
@@BRITAINSFINEST24 It's Epstein. So Kevin Spacey was fooling around with the girls at Epstein's island? Lol got it. Yes, I'm happy for him as the people who accused him had zero evidence to back up their accusations and, in fact, the evidence showed them to be money-grabbing liars. Have you analyzed the flight logs? Or are you just repeating something you heard while not even being able to spell Epstein correctly?
@Jodie-ux1kn all you have to do is research and you'll find it. Tom hanks is on it, Ellen DeGeneres also. Their are even photos off them both together ON the island.
Thank You Douglas for yet again bringing common sense to this serious issue that Kevin has been tried, convicted and hung by social media. It disgusts me and I always knew and have said from the beginning that he was innocent. He is a fantastic actor and we love him.
I am glad Piers you have made a point of Kevin Spacey ‘s innocence and the individuals on your show acknowledging he has been exonerated with all his court cases particularly the UK simply because If he had been found guilty he would have been incarcerated for many years in prison. It is still incredulous that there has not been much published in the media on how he has been successful in clearing his name, no apologies made from accusers that helped in ruining his career and from the independent bodies/companies that have crucified him in his life and career that have sped over 6 years whilst clearing his name.
İ remember in 2018 when that story pop out, i was saying on facebook that there is no actual proof of him raping or molesting and people fckn attacked me instantly accusing me of defending rapist. Kevin Spacey is a brilliant actor, i hope he'll get some good roles.
I remember my friend who worked in one of the top hotels in London. She told me back in 2004 that he was staying there and he would constantly chat up male waiters and waiting staff. No real harm unless the staff felt uncomfortable. But she said he was renowned for doing within the staff inside the hotel.
Social media has turned every milksop into a Hulk Hogan, every weak-kneed ninny into an MMA fighter, every opinionated moron into a Thurgood Marshall because of the cloak of anonymity and the scale of numbers.
I hope MR Spacey returns to acting, not only is he very successful, he is also one of the best actors in the world. When i first heard these allegations i calle BS straigh away, now he has been vindicated by multiple courts around the world, good for him, 👏👏👏👏👏
To be fair, if they are talking about the cases where Spacey was found not guilty not getting enough publicity they should also discuss the case where he WAS found guilty not getting much coverage either - the civil case where he was found guilty of breaching the sexual harassment policy on House of Cards and fined $31 million. Kevin was NOT shunned by Hollywood as a result of a 30 year old accusation by Anthony Rapp or because of his alleged misdeeds while running the Old Vic, it was because of his decades of creepy gropey behaviour towards young men which were well known within the industry and had continued contemporarily - as the verdict in the House of Cards case shows.
Or was it just a case of everyone believed he was guilty so they found him thus. Losing a law suit doesn’t necessarily mean his is actually guilty just that the jury thought he was. Because juries don’t always get it right. And the threshold of proof in a civil case is much lower than a criminal one.
@@cyndielake4092 Yes it is always possible, my point though was that Piers and Co shouldn't give the impression that he has been cleared in EVERY case when he was found guilty in a civil case (this was actually held before an arbitrator rather than a jury, who decided in favour of MRC, Kevin appealed the decision but it was upheld by a Los Angeles Superior Court Judge). One of his first reactions to the allegations in the US was to seek “evaluation and treatment” at a sex addiction clinic, which seems an odd response for someone who is completely innocent of any carnal misbehaviour.
Exactly. There were rumours floating around KS for decades before any accusations came out. Maybe partly because he chose to deny his sexual orientation - possibly that made it worse.
@@elinstar6034 That's the main reason why he didn't come out earlier probably - being in the closet meant people generally didn't look any closer into his actual behaviour, and any rumours about him making passes at other guys were treated as “proof” he might be gay instead of evidence that he might be a predator. Ironically he often blamed the media for “using sexuality as a weapon,” but that's exactly what he was doing.
@@TheRobin1976 I guess the reason I responded the way I did was you make statement regarding his behavior such as the last line in your most recent post as if you believe he is guilty. This is why the use of the word allegedly is used so often in the media. One so they don’t get sued but also in these types of cases there is no way to prove what he did or didn’t do so those who are deciding in these cases look at the claims and if there are enough allegations assume it must be true. And I agree with your point about Peirs & Co
I worked at a jewelry company chain that would only fire you if you were found guilty of a crime. Not for an allegation. Most serious crime? Selling drugs. She took a plea deal, not found guilty, continued to work.
what does that say about Hollywood, which has become so woke, so self-righteous, it is despicable. I really hope Mr Spacey will be able to get his life back on track. He's an amazing actor!
Having lived in Los Angeles without being an insider I have heard stories of him being a gay predator for years....well before he was accused of anything in court or in the press
This is exactly what happened to Michael Jackson - and ultimately cost him his life. To this day - music channels dont play his music - the anniversaries of his death are never marked. Its utterly tragic and disgusting.
5 years minimum prison sentence for anyone who makes a proveably false MeToo allegation. It'll prevent lives from being destroyed, and it'll help REAL victim get the attention and justice they deserve.
Nah just sue them if they wrongly accused you. If you can provide proof of motivation and that they deliberately lied, well, ice the cake with some punitive damages for that.
Proving sexual assault is incredibly difficult in court. The only reason weinstein got done was because he abused an entire battalion of women and the evidence was overwhelming. The best advice you can give to anyone who's been abused or worse is to go directly to the police and putting legal barriers in the way is not the right idea. We can discuss ways of illegally outing people before their convicted of anything but there had to be a discussion about balance.
@@nutcracker2916 Well when America has federal employees constantly perjuring themselves in front of Congress on live RU-vid or TV with no consequences it kind of sets an example.
To say someone was not proven guilty it’s not the same as saying they were proven to be innocent. A defendant does not have to prove his innocence. The jury does not decide innocence. The jury decide whether or not there is sufficient evidence to prove him guilty. It’s a distinction with a very real difference. Nonetheless they’re both right
I lost my job accused of theft years ago didnt get charged next day they let me go, it turned out it was the manager who went to jail but i still lost my job and people said i must have got away with it. This kind of thing happens all the time i feel for KEVIN
