Pinion gearbox and Gates Carbon Drive. Don’t get brain washed to think you need anything different.

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Pinion gearbox & Gates belt. After owning several Pinion bikes both C.12 and P.18 here are my thoughts.
First the positives
1) Only maintenance an easy oil change once every 10000km2
2) Change gear whilst stationary. Very useful when doing some singletrack and you are balanced to get over a obstacle. Change gear without putting your foot down and get through it.
3) No need to buy cassette after cassette. Belts last a lot longer and you don’t need to maintain it.
4) After a ride just put away and ride again. If it is really muddy just a hose down and forget.
5) Pinion 12sp 600% range, 18sp 636% range.
6) Equal gear spacing
7) Silent carefree ride. Ride after ride.
8) Salt, sand and grime does not have an effect on performance. Ride through winter on the same bike with the same parts and you don’t need to do anything other than a hose down and look after your other parts like brakes etc.
9) Changes between multiple wheels sizes are a hell of a lot cleaner and quicker.
And what people perceive as the negatives
1) The weight of the gearbox…….After you take off all the things that a standard bike has the BB, large cassette, mech etc yes it is slightly heavier. But ask yourself are you a racer that can just replace your parts everytime they break do you want to spend time maintaining a system. And the big one. Does it matter if you are a few seconds longer to the top of a hill? At the end of the day. It is making you fitter and stronger.
2) The twist shifter…… really? People have a problem with the most logical method for shifting? Ummm
3) Drag… I can’t sense any. If you watch my RU-vid video I explain why people might think there is one because your crank arm is not directly attached to the chain/belt ring so you can be pedalling at a different speed to what your crank is turning. You just need to get your head around the relationship of the gearbox to your chainring turning and any idea of drag does not exist.
So all in all to 99% of riders they are the perfect combination..See why I like them so much on.#pinion #piniongearbox #pinionbike #pinioneu #gates #gatescarbondrive #gatescarbonbeltdrive @carbondrive @pinion.eu @pinionlifestyle

Опубликовано:

9 апр 2022

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Комментарии : 73

@douglastong3208 Год назад

Just came across your channel while looking to see what's new for Pinion. Totally agree with your assessment of the benefits of a Pinion gearbox. Alas, I ride an AZUB TI-FLY X with a C1.12 but without a belt drive. I would love to be able to upgrade to a belt drive.

@timb171 2 года назад

Thanks for posting, it's getting my psyched for my new Broken Road arriving, It should be here around the end of June. I'll do an unboxing and once I've got a few miles on it, I'll do a review. I've opted to have Sonder do the belt drive conversion for me in the end, can't wait to ride it. I've gone with a plus size 27.5x2.8 inch tyre, it's gonna be mint. Couldn't agree more about riding what you've got, I'd be out right now on my old 26er running a 3-by but I've just had a minor surgery so I'm laid up at the moment. I'm cycling vicariously through RU-vid. Hopefully I'll be fully mended when the new stead arrives. Have great day

@RidingBicycles 2 года назад

That Sonder is such a great bike. Would tick all the boxes for me! Pinion with belt will make it possibly the best bikepacking bike available and with the price of their bikes it is untouchable! I can understand why you are so excited. When you have recovered from your operation I wish you happy riding!

@jensbertholhansen3435 Год назад

Did you get your broken road pinion? Happy with it?

@RidingBicycles Год назад

Hi, it is the Solace Cycles OMP1 I have on my agenda, but just need to save up a bit more. 👍🏽

@cristofacar Год назад

From a design standpoint, derailleurs and chains are the creation of the devil - so many things wrong with them. I currently have An Alfine 8, but am seriously looking at changing to a Pinion bike - they look brilliant! Thanks for the video. Could I just suggest that you don't fidget the camera so much - it's really distracting - and get a wind cover for your mic.

@RidingBicycles Год назад

Hello, I will take your points on board. This RU-vid thing is just a hobby for me and many of the videos are just spontaneous thoughts when I am out riding. I did get lots of gear but I end up leaving at home as I don’t want to spoil my ride but I will try and be more professional and get the basics right 👍🏽

@cowpoke02 5 месяцев назад

Can put gear oil kn alfine 8 . Grease bearings to seal it . Guess IRS way better. Smooth and no gear wear. I wonder how much it weighs?

@jonathonsilbaugh2833 Месяц назад

I do have one problem with the twist shifter as I don't like resting my hand on it for any length of time. I did solve this by installing a Jones h-loop handle bar with lots of grip real estate so I can slide my hands completely on to the chonky grips when I'm not actively shifting.

@kevindean9613 Год назад

Thanks for the video , I have two bikes with a Rohloff & I'm thinking about treating myself to a Sonder Titanium with a pinion , Have you compared the 12 speed to the 18 ?

@RidingBicycles Год назад

Hi, I just got a Solace cycles pinion delivered yesterday. Getting it built up today. Video coming soon. The 12 speed and the 18 speed have a very similar range. It is just the jump between the gears on the 12 speed which are bigger. The C.12 is lighter if weight is a concern but my Ti p18 comes in at about 12kg so that is light enough for an rough stuff touring machine. The 12sp is perfect for most people. I have a knee without cartilage so the narrower gaps on the 18sp suit me better. I would go 18sp if you are going to be doing some heavy loaded trips. If you keep your set up light then the 12sp will work fine.

@Cobwobbler 2 года назад

I’ve gotta get me one of them.

@RidingBicycles 2 года назад

😂 They are the bizz ✌🏽

@RidingBicycles 2 года назад

You might be in look if it is your size. I have one for sale in showroom condition on ebay www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125326212364?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=N1kepkl1Tlm&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=N1kepkl1Tlm&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

@wouldyoudomeakindnes Год назад

the pinion have like 16 engagement points, now you pair it with a high engagement rear hub, one thing if you don't back pedal the gearbox don't need to re-egange.

@RidingBicycles Год назад

I know some people think there is an engagement point issue, I have no problem with how the gearbox engages. It is perfect for my riding and I don’t notice any area where it needs to be improved. But good engagement hubs are an improvement for any system 👍🏽

@rasfo123 2 года назад

I have nordest lacrau with pinion and gates belt. Lets be honest bike is slug compared to standard drivetrain. Problem is not when you are trying to go easy, i almost don't feel difference. However when I am trying to crank up speed to catch up with guys drag is exponentially growing with more power to cranks. I still like bike and it is my favorite, but system is far from ideal. For easy rides i am always going with pinion but for some rides where i have to be fast sram eagle is hands down better. I would say difference for me is approx 10%. I still can climb steeper hills on pinion and go faster on downhill because of range but trying to keep up with guys i am usually riding is impossible with pinion while with sram it is piece of cake.

@RidingBicycles 2 года назад

Yes that is true. But I don’t ride with people that often, just on my own. That’s why you got to ask yourself does it matter how fast you need to go. For 99% of novice cyclist that go into a bike shop and come out with the latest carbon bone crunching machine to do their shopping on there are better options. Eg hubs gears and pinion. If it matters to get Strava times and keep up with buddies then pinion might not be the best option, but on bikepacking trips when friends are messing around with broken chains, adjusting their gears and oiling a dirty chain I can just put my stove on and have a coffee and chill. In England people just get promoted race oriented gear in bike mags. Rohloffs, pinion, gates etc don’t get a mention. If people were aware of the low maintenance and ease it might encourage more to get on their bikes and out of cars :) :) 👍🏽✌🏽

@RidingBicycles 2 года назад

Oh and the cost of replacing 1x12 drive train parts is getting a bit out of hand. £150 min for microspline cassette, chains and mechs are also silly prices. When you add it all up over the duration of your bike it starts to make a bit more sense to fit and forget. I also just have a small box outside with no room for bike maintenance. Pinion and gates rock in that kind of scenario ✌🏽

@rasfo123 2 года назад

@@RidingBicycles well yes main reason why i opted for pinion is to have it hassle free. On the other hand upfront cost of pinion bike will cover repair costs of standard bike for 2-3 years. Anyway nice review just wanted to add another bit of information that might help some people to decide and it is not that easy to spot.

@RidingBicycles 2 года назад

Another thing that I really appreciated was when I was on a bikepacking trip with a loaded bike and sometimes when the terrain got tricky and others were stalling then having to push cause they could not change gear I could keep my balance change gear stationary and pedal out, that was really cool! Your point is valid that’s why you won’t see them on racing bikes. People just need to think how they use a bicycle and choose one for their purpose. 👍🏽✌🏽Tyres can make a massive difference too to how a bike feels, the difference on my Fargo when I swap between 27.5 by 3 inch to 29 by 2.2 is massive. Have fun on all your bikes 😃btw where about do you live/ride?

@rasfo123 2 года назад

@@RidingBicycles Slovakia, but as you can see from my videos i have on yt i am riding more trails and more mtb. Also bike-pacing for me is just another mtb ride usually on carbon full 😂 As you mentioned all is based on your setup. For bike-packing i am going with 24 chainring on sram eagle and it is super easy. I actually have 32 front and 39 back on pinion as for hills here going on 20-25% climb was insane without super easy gear. Well anyway before buying pinion i did a lot of research and just to want stop here and leave comment for cool and informative content you posted.

@Breakdown0 10 месяцев назад

How satisfied are you with the gear steps for off-road touring? I'm worried with a whopping spread of 600% that the 17,5% gear steps of the C1.12 make it uncomfortable to find the right cadence. My Shimano Nexus 8 gear box also has average gear steps of 17% and I was constantly struggling with the cadence (granted the Nexus doesn't have a steady 17% but is all over the place with its steps)

@RidingBicycles 10 месяцев назад

The C.12 is practical for most people. I have no cartilage in my right knee and find the P.18 gearbox perfect for subtle changes in cadence.

@Breakdown0 10 месяцев назад

@@RidingBicycles Thanks for the reply. I guess, I then simply have to test drive them when I get the chance :) But the C1.12 should do then

@stardreamer1st 2 года назад

Which model do you have, and how much did you pay. I was looking for a bike packing addition

@RidingBicycles 2 года назад

Tout Terrain Scrambler that I converted to flat bar. It cost about 3600. I would check out Sonder bikes. Ti and cheaper! There broken road is ace for bike packing. You can specify Belt compatible if you speak to them.

@gregg48 Год назад

@@RidingBicycles maybe I'm looking at the wrong thing, but the Sonder buildout is $4800 USD at a glance.

@OVER-bENGINEERED 7 месяцев назад

So does the belt turn while coasting or is there a freehub or freewheel at rear axle?

@RidingBicycles 7 месяцев назад

You still use a normal 11sp free hub with spacers or a single speed free hub. The belt does not turn whilst coasting just like a “normal” derailiuer and chain

@netional5154 9 месяцев назад

I own a Pinion 1.18 and I thought it would be zero maintenance accept for the oil change. But to my surprise it says in the manual that after every 500 km you should open the cable box and clean and grease the planetary gears. This can't be right, right?

@RidingBicycles 9 месяцев назад

I would only think of doing it if it was submerged in water. But every now and again if you remember it might be worth a gander.

@netional5154 9 месяцев назад

@@RidingBicycles I asked Pinion about it and this was their reply: "this is a recommendation from us. Since this area is not sealed, depending on the usage location, this area can become more quickly dirty. However, the decision is up to the user."

@RidingBicycles 9 месяцев назад

Yeh, that’s why I would just look at it if you submerge your bike or you are just doing some general maintenance, it is just a cable pulley box. Not the gearbox, the gearbox is sealed. It is just a case of taking the four Allen heads off and sticking some light grease in there. Like I say only something to be done every now then. I might of done it twice in about six years of running pinion. It is the same with Rohloff. They have a cable pully box that just needs to be checked and greased every now and then. On a Rohloff it is the black box that hangs down from the dropout. If you just use your bike for general riding / commuting etc it might only be something you do when you actually need to replace cables. Nothing to worry about. Just forget about it. Love the ride and if you happen to think about, just give it a gander.

@markevans5596 Год назад

Hey buddy, thanks for the vid. I have a Pinion with Gates Drive on a Nikolai hardtail. I want to love it, it looks cool and the maintenance (or lack of) is amazingly easy in the dusty conditions on my trails. However I'm still not over the sluggish feel, like some of my power is wasted, which you address in your vid and is admittedly exasperated by the weighty build at over 15kg. But worst is the kick back issue I have in low gears on steep hills, when standing up and pedalling hard. I can feel the gearbox "catch up" with my feet at the bottom of the pedal stroke. Eventually after a few meters when it's really steep it leads to the gears skipping. I haven't contacted Pinion yet, just wondering if this is a problem only I have found? It's a C1.12. Maybe it's to do with elasticity of the belt, or maybe I set the gears up wrong (it was a frame and 'box only so I built it and set the shifter). Just wanted your opinion please...

@RidingBicycles Год назад

Hi yes the lack of maintenance and the fact it is bombproof and you can go anywhere with confidence is the biggest reason for getting one. Gearboxes do have more drag than a mech with a clean chain and mech but as soon as it gets muddy and horrible the gearbox will work a lot better no missed shifts no sticky mech etc it will just work the same no matter the conditions. But I am with you, you always have a little niggle in your head. I think the 15kg is having more of an effect on your feeling than the gearbox. I completed understand how you feel. I sold the Tout Terrain and I am awaiting a Pinion Ti build from Solace cycles. Apparently comes in at 13kg so should do the job for me. At the end of the day I have got to start thinking of the benefits to get rid of the fact it might be a bit slower. I am not a racer. The other issue you have I have not experienced. Without seeing it in action it is hard to understand. Are you able to send me a link to a private video so I can try and help you some more?

@markevans5596 Год назад

@@RidingBicycles thanks for the reply, appreciate it. I'm not sure if a video would be able to capture anything, the kickback feeling doesn't have any symptoms you'd see or hear, just a cracking noise when the gears start to slip, I always back off at this point to avoid doing damage! If you have any steep climbs you could do with yours in first gear while really stamping on the pedals, you'll know if it's happening to yours too. Thanks again

@RidingBicycles Год назад

Hi, I am just on a cycle tour myself at the moment so I am just laid in my tent and have a bit more time to think about it. Initially I was just thinking you were just mentioning the clunk when you catch up with the gearbox. Reading about this kickback and gears skipping is something that I have never experienced. And gear skipping is something that should never happen with a Pinion or Rohloff hub as that negates the benefits of them. It is also nothing to do with the belt as the belt is actually stiffer than a chain. Frames have to be certified for a belt because if they are not they can actually warp the stays with the torque you can get through. Just mentioning this to prove that the belt is not the problem. The first thing I would do is take the cables completely out, maybe get some new ones and put the cables back in following the Pinion video for the C box. If you still have the issue then definitely get in touch with Pinion. It is definitely something that should not happen though 👍🏽

@markevans5596 Год назад

@@RidingBicycles right, yes I think I will try replacing the cables first, maybe it's just an installation issue. Unfortunately I'm away for work now so it won't be until November, listen thank you for your advice, keep up the good work and enjoy the tour!

@RidingBicycles Год назад

November! What keeps you away from home for so long, the forces? Pinion are always very helpful so if you have no joy with the cables they will sort it for you.

@SolarizeYourLife Год назад

I understand the $1200 for the gearbox, what I don't understand is the overprice of the rest of the bike the gearbox is on....

@RidingBicycles Год назад

The gearboxes are a little more that. The frameset on its own is 1300 euros. Plus the gear box. Then your belt and cogs will come to about 300 euros. The rest is in the wheels, bars, seat, etc

@kevindean9613 8 месяцев назад

I have a Surly Ogre with a Rohloff chain driven & a Olsen Lamb with a pinion belt drive ,I like to have just one bike ,which one would you advise to keep ?

@RidingBicycles 8 месяцев назад

It is such a personal preference and specific to each cyclist’s requirements I would not want to say!

@kevindean9613 8 месяцев назад

@@RidingBicycles My initial thoughts are that the pinion feels more precise ,I can easily swap out the wheels & as I'm pretty lazy when it comes to maintenance I like the idea of the belt drive ..

@RidingBicycles 8 месяцев назад

The wheels are easier to swap out and the belt is less maintenance, lighter and last longer than a chain. But also consider what you enjoy riding the most. And which one covers the most riding you do. I have to say whenever I have tried to go to one bike, I do it for a good few months but then another creeps into the shed 😂

@kevindean9613 8 месяцев назад

A few times I've been out & thought " I wish I had bought the other bike " I'm going to get rid of that problem, as nice as it is .@@RidingBicycles

@kevindean9613 4 месяца назад

I like to see what you think of the Olsen Pinion Lamb ,as the titanium frames are now made in the UK .

@LLeeStark Год назад

What are the grips and handlebar extenders?

@RidingBicycles Год назад

Ergon GP5. www.ergonbike.com/en/product-details.html?w=touring&s=gptouring&anr=42410075

@alexmorgan3435 2 года назад

I've given up engaging with the haters. I've come to the conclusion that the most vociferous voices against Rohloff and Pinion geared bikes with or without Gates belt drive are the people who cannot afford them so they rubbish them to make themselves feel good about their inferior derailleur bikes. If you put all gear systems side by side, leaving aside cost, then I bet pretty much everyone will choose an enclosed gear box period. Derailleurs are so primitive. They used to be cheap and nasty, now they are just nasty. The type of riding where you most need an enclosed gear box is off road riding. Don't understand why so many MTBers are still Luddites when it comes to gears sticking with Flintstones derailleurs. I just built up my Kona Wo fat bike with Rohloff hub and loving it. Admittedly it is still with chain but hopefully over the summer this will be changed to a Gates belt. I wouldn't have considered doing the project with derailleurs. Anyway I am preaching to the converted. I shall check out Sonder and Alpkit for their Pinion bikes. ATB.

@stardreamer1st 2 года назад

Sounds like a good video showing how it goes

@RidingBicycles 2 года назад

alpkit.com/products/sonder-broken-road-pinion this is a good loaded bikepacking model but they do a gravel bike and enduro with pinion. You can select any Ti frame and they give you a full custom experience with it. Basically you can specify what you want.

@RidingBicycles 2 года назад

alpkit.com/products/sonder-broken-road-pinion

@Garfie1d73 Год назад

That Gates belt will EAT the energy you put into the drive train. It gets worse the smaller the cogs are. The pinion gear box eats about 10 percent of the power input. The belt takes away another 10 percent. Therefore: If you use a pinion gear box and want maximum output combine it with a chain and NOT with a belt. The belt is a sensible solution only when low maintenance is king or combined with an electric motor. I have been riding e-bikes with belts and a P.18 with a belt for thousands of kilometers.

@RidingBicycles Год назад

Don’t think it is as much as 20% cycling about states about 6% but for the everyday cyclist that just wants a bike to work everyday no matter what why would you want anything else. I ain’t bothered about watts and effort, if I were I would lose a stone 😂

@BEY0NDtheINFINITY 9 месяцев назад

Is this a tout terrain scrambler?

@RidingBicycles 9 месяцев назад

Yes.

@mountaindweller4514 2 года назад

Thanks for showing the Pinion system in practice. I've been interested in the pinion gearbox system, although it's way too expensive for me to try out. On paper seems like a more elegant solution compared to IGH, but in practice seems to have a some flaws. Will be interesting to see if they will be able to iron those out in later models in the years to come.

@RidingBicycles Год назад

There are lots of brands that are bringing out gearboxes and gear hubs at the moment. One of the gearboxes that has come out uses the Pinion bridge (mount). But if I was getting a hub gearbox it would be a Rohloff and if I was getting a gearbox it would always be a Pinion. I do not have experience with others but I just figure these are the people with the knowledge and expertise that first tried to change the landscape (in these times I know there are older brands eg s archer) so I would be loyal to them. I am converting both my Fargos to Rohloff and I have a Pinion mtb coming soon. Then no more bike! 😂