that was literally what the whole thinspo era was about on tumblr back then. Very glad the fandoms/anime were more prevalent on my page at that point or I could have gotten sucked right into that as well :/ I only barely didn't give in when I started loving k-pop. Super toxic, I hope it never returns. I do my best to educate my enviroment and keep an open conversation, the least I can do
I mean skinny has unfortunately always been “in” from heroin chic/lollipop head era in the 90s to tumblr thinspo in the late 2010s to Pinterest y2k now.
@@aryaslay715 a few years ago it was a common trend or meme to post a picture of hotdogs posed to look like a pair of legs , or vice versa, with the caption "hot dogs or legs" and sometimes it was actually kinda hard to tell which it was
I hate the idea of aesthetics. They change every year and not everyone had the money to change their entire wardrobe and room for some compliments. We will hype up one aesthetic one year and spend lots of money on it and then when a new popular aesthetic rises the fame we mock the former one and call people “basic” just because they don’t have a certain “aesthetic”. And the gatekeeping as well is just stupid
I wrote this under another comment but it is weird how they come and go so fast! I’ve always had an antique/Grandma style so when cottage core became a thing, it suddenly felt weird seeing so many people dress like me and basically buy out the antique/vintage market of things I’ve always enjoyed. It’s not deterring me from loving what I love, but it is jarring to see it become a whole ass aesthetic.
At this point I’ve matured enough to know trends are literally stupid and have no practical use. If your not an influencer or in the media/entertainment industry it’s a waste of money to be on trend. Just get things that fit you and that you like it works better.
Me too! Ugh I love the styles, trendy still or not, but I don’t have the money or time to keep buying all of these things. It’s difficult to find a style that’s relatively timeless, or dated in a good way.
It also feed hyper consumption, because if trends change every year and you always feel the need to keep up, you will buy lots of clothes and wear half if not less of them..
there is a difference between trends and having an aesthetic! the lifetime of trends is toxic but adopting aesthetics isn't inherently bad. aesthetics are in art, fashion, architecture, it is creativity and expression. trends are toxic and include how women's bodies should look and what one needs to be worthy in that time period.
I remember when it was bad when Afro people were curvy now that everyone can get it’s okay. It’s horrible to make fun of people then try and look like them🤢🤮.
I can never find my body type in anything. Even if I type in plus size fashion, the people never look like I do. I’m also not thin. I’m trying really hard to find out how to dress my body type, I’ve always felt bad about how I look because I’m fairly large, curvy, and broad.
honestly you can search up pacific islander as well :D but make sure there is just native ones or just search up "native *insert a type of pacific islander here*" also because touristy things and sterotypes pop up within some pictures :"")
@@Lillyanna707 if you want I can help you! I have a mom and friends who struggle heavily with finding outfits that they are comfortable wearing while also looking trendy or gorgeous or whatever they are going for at the moment. I know what it’s like to struggle finding clothes that you like, especially if what you like is a fashion that is dominated by people who look the exact opposite of you, body wise or other. If you want, I will gladly help you but I understand if you would rather have someone like a close friend instead!
Aesthetics as a whole is honestly turning into a very problematic societal pressure in my opinion, like so many teenagers are having an identity crises cause they don’t know what “aesthetic” they are. Like the word itself doesn’t even feel real anymore it’s so overused. Aesthetics are great but they’re just superficial and often end up working against what the original intention was, and I know it’s mostly teenagers/young adults having this issue and they’ll figure themselves out eventually, but in the mean time so many people keep forcing themselves in these counter culture boxes that they don’t even fully understand
People should just get whatever they think it’s cute like I do and care more about their individual style than fitting into an aesthetic. Trends come and go but having your own style which may consist of liking cute but also edgy things is forever because it’s a part of who you are.
much of these aesthetics seems to be trying to box people similarly to early 2000s tropes: goth/nerd/jock/prep versus egirl/dark academia/y2k/cottagecore, which might be why so many teenagers are worried about not fitting their ‘aesthetic.’
Honestly itd so stressful 🙁 labeling your style isn't going to get you anywhere other than an identity crisis. it's more fun to take inspo from whatever you like
This!! I’ve always had an antique/Grandma style so when cottage core became a thing, it suddenly felt weird seeing so many people dress like me and basically buy out the antique/vintage market of things I’ve always enjoyed. It’s not deterring me from loving what I love, but it is jarring to see it become a whole ass aesthetic.
i changed the way i dress this year, i’m still finding a style that i like but it’s so stressful. i’m really sporty, i love boxing and running but i like the “alt” (actual alt) or “grunge” clothes. but i feel like i can’t be both, sporty and alt. i feel like you have to be one or the other because they are both associated with different personalities if that makes any sense. i also like other “aesthetics” but i feel like i’m not “allowed” to have one or more very different styles. idk if this makes any sense sorry.
The "is it a good outfit or is she just skinny?" reminds me of the phrase we use here in Brazil (another very racist country): "is she/he pretty or just has blue eyes?", referring to finding pretty any clear european characteristic in contrast of the ones of most of the brazilian population
Same, in Mexico especially around elementary school it was often seen as blue eyed girls, or blonde girls were the most beautiful, even though growing up you later realized other girls with more common features were ultimately prettier, and i just find it so interesting how beauty standards change so much even in neighbor countries
@@bedussy6749 even though i'm from portugal, it is very common what op said. Here the majority of people have brown hair and brown eyes and there are many people who comment stuff like "isn't he beautiful? he has blue eyes and is blonde" . I have brown hair but is much lighter compared to people here and some people even say i'm blonde because my brown hair is very light and sometimes on the sun during summer it will be even lighter. I don't mind if people think that blonde people with blue eyes are beautiful, i myself don't have anything against it, but some people comment in a way that makes it seem like it's only beautiful because it's not like the majority which puts other people who don't have those features down. Some people say nice things about my hair and i like it but there's other people who praise me for having "basically blonde hair"
When I think of the 'is it a good outfit or are they just skinny' trend it reminds me of how plus-sized people are called 'slobs' for literally just wearing hoodies and jeans, while skinny people look 'cool' and 'casual'
when white skinny girls eat fast food, wearing a hoodie and a messy bun: easy-going, casual, fun, a vibe, relatable, etc. when plus-sized woc (especially black people with afros, locs, etc) eats fast food, wearing a hoodie and a messy bun: lazy, unhealthy, weird, unattractive, slob, etc. it's so tiring.
For me I don’t think it’s the fact that they’re fat, just bad lighting tbh. Anyone can look good in anything, but anyone can look bad when light is shining directly at their face and blocking out the rest of the light, making it look creepy.
but its said about skinny people who dress like that as well? people are only saying good stuff about this kind of look if the jeans and hoodies that theyre wearing fall under fashionable in others opinions, otherwise its slobs and not put together lol
What's crazy is 2000s fashion is heavily inspired by hip hop and R&B culture at time. Black girls popularized the girly, street wear, the gold name plates and tinted shades, long nails before Paris Hilton knew of juicy coture sweats yet when it's the thin, white girls at the center of the nostalgia all over Pintrest. When are we gonna let other ppl shine??
Exactly! All the y2k stuff you see on pinterest isn’t even y2k but skinny white girls in baggy jeans with a pink crop top 🤨 To find actual y2k and not the whitewashed stuff you have to type things like ‘cyberghetto” or “ghetto y2k” which is literally just racist. Also the audacity some people have to say Paris Hilton created white2k??
@@dearvermin not gonna lie that pisses me off. there are many branches to y2k fashion but its never actually one of those branches, just pink tanktops and baggy pants. what is that?? 😳
I personally love the Hong Kong 80s aesthetic! The big neon street signs at night, the dense coffee shops with smoke from the foods wafting in the air, the dirty alleyways cramped with unused objects and stray cats, the small apartments with the sliding door to the balcony... Not trying to romanticise poverty, but I love this aesthetic purely because it reminds me of my home !!
oh fuck yeah i actually agree to not gonna lie i really enjoy this one horror game called "paranormal HK" and devotion for that matter becuase while it is dirty it feels nice and old in a wayy :D
@@ayanna6327 exacty! also being a local and living in oahu chinatown here (besides the piss roaches and homelesS) its so freaking nice and old feeling still :D
@@UwU-lm9or There's a Chinatown in my city as well. Half of it is old and has that almost classic Hong Kong vibe, while the other half is newly built and has more modern-feel.
Istfg😭 i searched for "yoga" on pinterest (just for fun lmao) AND I KID YOU NOT i saw bunch of white chicks and not even a single damn brown person like bruh 😐✋🏼
exactly and the fact we have such diverse looks too! from mongoloid groups to austroasiatic groups to dravidian groups to indo aryan groups theres just so much and none of it is covered at all🙁 also perpetuates the stereotype that all browns look the same
what also bothers me about the y2k aesthetic in particular is how some people claim to be ethical and ✨only thrift✨, but bulk-buy all the cute things from thrift shops to resell it for super expensive on depop and/or quite literally just claim to be thrifting when in reality they're buying stuff from fast fashion sites :// i love the style, but it's just so frustrating seeing all those things badly connotated to it that you also describe while i'm simply looking for inspiration on pinterest etc., it almost makes me feel bad about liking the clothes, as weird as it sounds
Yeah, the reselling on depop creates a cult of personality around these sellers AND makes the entire "no buy shop ethical ♡" culture seem that more inexplicably difficult. Especially when it is, again, thin men and women styling chunky grandma church gowns and charging 80 bucks! And people eat it up. (If anyone has any chunky grandma church gowns they're interested in selling btw, hmu, I'm a part of the problem I live for some of the ugly shit they sell .)
Thrift shops in my country became really expensive here because fashion aware people started to thrift shop. Also they buy all the cute and nice clothes and people who can not afford to shop in regular fashion stores only are able to buy the ugly and cheap clothes. I think that is so so sad!
I'd love to point out that Eurocentric beauty standards not only include skin color but also extend to the shape of specific features. We rarely see broad noses or round faces in the media, even less so combined, which happen to be features that are less common in European ancestry. And if we do have celebrities of color, they tend to have thin high bridge noses, oval shaped faces, deep-set eyes along with lighter skin.
THIS also, when we see big noses or other features that are not normally represented they come with "so exotic 😍😍" "such a unique beauty 🤩😛" it's like... no gurl... most people don't have tiny noses, full lips and small foreheads, and marking them as "rare" only makes us believe that most of us are completely hegemonic
omg yes every time that typically black features (the ones that aren’t as accepted by yt ppl like big noses) are represented in the media they always have “offset” this with having them also have other eurocentric features like lighter skin, lighter eyes, looser hair, etc
This so true, Nina Simone was a great example she wasn’t treated the same compared to Diana Ross who looked more Eurocentric look. This makes me so annoyed xx
@@cocoajames5 period. And the worst part is she can’t even give credit. All these white girls think she started this. typical example of white ppl getting praise for things that black ppl are frowned upon for
so here’s my story: so i’m a black girl. i’m about to turn 16 and it wasn’t until November 2020 that i genuinely began to feel comfortable in my own skin. as a brown skinned girl i had always wanted to find people like me. people to look up to. but all i found on major platforms were skinny white girls. no matter how much different companies would claim to promote inclusivity, it was never true. whenever i’m on pinterest or youtube and i need something specifically for me, i have to put black girl beside it. even after subscribing to black content creators, my feed still constantly shows skinny white girls. we’re all human. we all look different. why is that so hard to except? i’m not asking to be superior to other races. for the longest time i just wanted to feel like i belonged . and i want the same for any other woc. so if you’re reading this please understand that you’re beautiful. you’re blessed to be alive. you matter just as much as anybody else. never forget that!!💗
Growing up as a brown girl in a European country made me constantly question my looks. Why do I have to be brown, why does my hair have to be black, why does my hair have to be curly...And then just running after beauty trends that could never work for me just to look white and fit in. If I think about it I'm embarrassed but I just didn't know better. Sometimes I still catch myself not liking specific features on myself until I realize that I just don't like them because they are not European. I grew up with this very toxic mindset but I'm unlearning it. And just like you I learned that I AM beautiful. I don't need to put myself down, I can be proud of who I am.
I don’t know how old are you, but I’m almost 22 and I’m really glad all those “aesthetics” and “internet beauty standards” wasn’t a thing when I was 15 (at least in my country). I’ve been growing up with terrible self-esteem, zero confidence and everyday thoughts about how ugly and undesirable I am. I truly found body confidence around 19-20 and I can’t even imagine how hard it is for younger girls to be confident with all those Instagram and Pinterest trends. I wanna hug every single one of them.
yep I’m not rlly insecure abt my body, I like it when I feel pretty but it’s okay when I don’t but some of my friends r quite insecure and it’s easy to see why. I would say filters r a bigger issue tho. I have a long distance friend as I moved two years ago and she basically only sends me pictures with Instagram filters on them now even tho I would rather see her real face. Also the tiktok algorithm makes it so you only see pretty ppl making it feel like that’s the standard. I was unaware ppl spend this much time on Pinterest tbh😅 I use it rarely mainly for old books and magazines
I’m 23, and I feel like aesthetics existed when I was a teen. It just wasn’t exhibited on the internet as much, but in more traditional media places. I remember the teenager magazine in my country showcasing all the trends and I also remember thinking the clothing the disney channel stars like Miley Cyrus and Selena Gomez was really cool. Maybe it is worse for current teenagers, as we mainly consumed the media, but they live in a world where the media isn’t only consumed but produced by them and their peers, upping the need to participate.
bro literally all these aesthetics aint pretty. the more u see something the more accostumed u are to it and it becomes the standard so its literally all bs n they all look the same. HAHA
As an art student I hate the most that we started calling "aesthetic " someone's style. The word aesthetic doesn't mean style. It means value system. And that value system can be ugly or beautiful, tragic or comic, pathetic or idyllic, menial or sublime etc. So something aesthetic doesn't mean good. It could mean the positive as well as the negative aspect of something. But of course we glamourise it. Aesthetics are wrong not only because they insinuate that someone has the money to change their style with every trend but also the whole internet has the wrong idea of what it truly means.
Ah, no need to attack her on that. It's okay if she doesn't know, most people don't. It's easy to go with the internet and its definitions. Heck, it didn't ever cross my mind to look up what aesthetic truly meant before one of my teachers mentioned it.
I love wearing corset tops and I happen to be plus sized. The amount of comments I got about how the corset is “not doing its job” and doesn’t “look right” on me came as a huge shock that first time I wore it. I even got someone suggesting plastic surgery because “your waist isn’t even there haha”....I got it because it was cute, not knowing that it would have people produce such guttural reactions. It doesn’t usually faze me because I’m used to the fatphobia (plus sized poc tings) but the fact that I couldn’t enjoy something as simple as experimenting with new fashion was a huge slap in the face. However, the same way I wear editorial make up in my daily life and the same way I kept my curls instead of burning it like people around me want, I continued living by my own standard of normal because that’s what truly mf matters.
@@magnummagpie8792 Don't let anyone gatekeep a literal piece of clothing ! I bet you would rock it ;'' istg after realizing that nothing anyone says matters (If I'm not hurting anyone and you're bothered, that's on YOU), you can do and wear anything with confidence.
And I’m over here thinking corsets don’t look right on me because I’m too small and my waist is literally the size of a small corset (I still wear them though because I love them)
I'm latina, with a fairly "indigenous" skin color to put it in some way, and I remember when this whole e-girl trend started I was totally fascinated by it cause it remind me to the whole goth/punk style that my older sister followed when she was younger. I got my hair colored blue, I started doing some makeup, and I felt like I looked cool. Then the comments started. A lot of people in my school started doing very mean comments about how I looked ridiculous and I remember the "It only looks good on white girls. Black girls can only be sexy, but you don't have the body to that (I've always been pretty thin and flat-chested)" and it really sucked to think that my choices even in clothing and style, were reduced just for my skin color or my body type
I Experienced the same situation when I was a teenager. I loved colorful hair but never tried to dye mine because of my skin color. People would often say that colorful hair looked ridiculous on "prietas" . Now that I'm an adult I really regret not dying my hair. I definitely believe that you looked cool with your dyed hair 💖 I know it's hard to ignore other people's comments but just do what you like And love 🌟
Es una puta mierda flaca, tenés razón, no veo e-girls q c vean como nosotras es re molesto, y no me habia dado cuenta hasta ahora 🤦♀️ es estúpido lo normalizado q esto está
I’m also latina, and I really like the aesthetic but because of my skin color I never tried it thinking that it wouldn’t suit me. I tried it a couple days ago and it actually suited me pretty well, but because of seeing all these white girls, never a tan one with these type of clothing and makeup I thought it wouldn’t suit me well.
I agree but then the sad thing is i see people wanting to live in cottage core when really your working with farm animals and such (nothing wrong tbh) but there comes a point where do you like the asethetic? or lifestyle? that is what they should be questioning and ive worked with animals before you get messy ofc so they should expect that they are gonna get messy if they wanna live in cottage core sorryyy this is simply a rant my bad!! I hope i wasnt negative or anything i just see people who want to live on cottage core but would probably hate it (unless they do like the work then thats fine :D)
@@bleachedwhite5067 YESS!! and the fact that pacific islanders too in general (like fijian, micronesia, aotearoa, etc) BARELY GET NOTICED OR REPRESENTATON!! and then they do its always the stereotypes AND THEN whenever people name like races and such I rarely see pacific islanders in the mix usually blacks, latinos, and asians (at least east but south still needs more recognition)but i hope i didnt sound racist here this is simply what i notice and this is me agreeing cause australians are technically apart of pacific islanders! :D
@@beatrixlozach4840 oh treu true but I mean there is autronesian and plus new zealand exists (SORRY IDK HOW TO MAKE SENS EOF IT BUT YES YOUR RIGHT AS WELL)
I remember I wanted to dress alt so I searched up chubby alt girl or plus size alt girl because of course I’m a lil over weight and I just got porn sites lmao 😩
Wsit i just searched "chubby alt girl" up and you weren't lying. :(( I'm overweight and that makes me super uncomfortable and another reason is because I'm asexual
there are lots of east asian representation such as koreans, japanese, etc. popularized through anime and kpop, but theres pretty nonexistent representation for south asians, southeast asians, and west asians. :/
EXACTLYY!! as a local myself on oahu I see NO pacific islander AND SOUTH EAST ASIAN REPRESENATION IN MEDI, AND ART!! idk but it just hurts and i agree with the reply below me oh and can i just say hell as a local on oahu theres always , representation for other cultures but where the hell is pacific islanders and plus you have SO MUCH CULTURE IN THE ISLANDS!! sorry for the rant im just happy someone points this our cause i rarely feel that pacidfic islanders DONT even have representation smh
@@anikak2055 EXACLTY!! not to sound rude or racist here but the only reprresentation ive seen the most is east asian (although tbh chinas culture is really underappreciated but still doesnt get rid of the fact its represented well like japan and korea) but anywyas south asians NEED more represenation like fucking pacific islanders BOTH CULTURES ARE AMAZING AS HELL heck even as a part flipino (tagalog and bisian household) anywyas sorry for the rant!!
I'm an attractive, short white woman and my best friend is black and about 6ft 2. When we go out shopping store clerks will always check his bags but never mine and constantly ask if he's bothering me and all this shit. There was this one time he was walking behind me in the isle of a clothing shop and an employee (a short white guy) walked up and started yelling at my friend to back off and get away from me, without asking us if we were okay or anything just started screaming at him. My friend and I kept telling him we were together and he wasn't bothering me but this douche kept screaming and threating to call the police. Eventually the manager came and sorted it out but I think it's an example of how tall black man are always perceived as doing something wrong even if there's no evidence.
Yep because we didn’t see ourselves (black ppl) represented the same way white people are. White people are allowed to be different and express their individuality but black people are encouraged to think the same, look the same etc. Black people need to be represented as something other that a monolith. And it’s sad because we grow up thinking that anything out of the mold that black people are supposed to be in is “white”
also the y2k aesthetic was literally invented by black women!! all the reference pictures for the era are of white women and leave out the iconic women on colour from the 2000s
sort of related to "is it a good outfit or is she just skinny", low rise jeans. only skinny people can wear those and look "trendy". i don't want a whole article of clothing to come back in style that's entirely reliant on if you having a flat stomach.
exactly.... a skinny girl wears low rise jeans and they look “cute,sexy,trendy,fashionable,aesthetic” then someone like me who isn’t exactly skinny wears it and it looks ridiculous and will make fun of me we need more representation and “trends” that will only apply to skinny people cannot come back
Exactly, you know for anyone who's not "skinny" tries to wear low rise jeans and they're gonna be shamed for having a "muffin top" or called trashy. It happened back in the 00s, I saw so many articles or posts straight up body shaming anyone that didn't have a flat stomach and wore jeans.
@@lemonboi487 and then if someone who doesn't have an entirely flat stomach makes a social media post wearing low rise jeans or a crop top, people will be commenting things like, "I love your confidence!" or, "checking to make sure there aren't any mean comments!" the reason saying, "I love your confidence!" is a problem is because you're basically saying that this person has "so much confidence" to be posting this photo or video. why is skinniness praised? why is that considered the norm? why is a thin waist the only body type that people like? why will I get made fun of and talked about behind my back if I don't have a thin waist and a flat stomach? we're all the same on the inside, so why should our bodies even matter? why does my body matter so much to other people? what has society become at this point..I'm pissed off by this. and it's the same with POC! I've seen it all. People of color getting called "ghetto" for wearing something baggy, getting called "whitewashed" for wearing the same thing as a white person, I've even seen POC being racist to themself JUST for white validation. why is it that when POC dyes their hair or wears streetwear its called "ghetto" but when a white girl does it, its called "trendy". wtf.
and don't forget the hip dips! even if your stomach is indeed flat, having hip dips AND wearing low-rises is - i'm pretty sure - considered some kind of a sin or something. beats me but having a body at all is grounds for gatekeeping apparently so let them have fun wearing the most uncomfortable cut of jeans imaginable anyway,,, popcorn, anyone?
but that’s not really fair is it. it’s not fair that someone who is skinny can’t wear something that makes them look cute and confident because it makes someone who isn’t skinny feel insecure. everyone, weather they are skinny or fat, weather they have an hourglass figure or not has a right to feel confident and comfortable in a trend that’s cute.
The argument that cottagecore is a problem because of colonialism is a VERY Eurocentric take in and of itself. I'm an Asian person from Russia and when the cottagecore thing was just beginning it just made me think of my childhood, spending time near farms and fields and forests, yet I've had people tell me I need to stop using this aesthetic because of this reason, even though I am not even American or European. Just a thought
I'm a south asian in England and cottage core just makes me think of the english countryside. If it means colonialism to someone else I'm not going to try and take that away from them or something, but same I personally don't relate it to that.
I'm Asian in the US but my family is from Vietnam. To me, the aesthetic of cottagecore has specific plants and colorful mushrooms and fields in stuff that has a climate more like western Europe than VN, especially when I mostly see white girls dress up in it. I see your point but white is such the default growing up in the US that I and most people here recreate it in an euro centric way
@@_noctivagus_ Neither do I. I'm South Asian too and just enjoy the aesthetic because I like the colours and nature motif. None of this colonizing stuff that people keep pushing. 😭😭
I actually agree with this, tbf I am white, but I grew up around nature - often spending long weekends visiting farms, especially permaculture farms, and when the aesthetic started up I fell in love with it because it romatisised my favourite aspects of a life that I was already so familiar with. I don't want to say that this colonialist perspective is invalid, but it's not images of colonial time that made me fall in love with this aesthetic. I feel like its a very urban thing to think - that farm aesthetics are only valid in history past as opposed to the numerous people who live on farms, and generally more rurally today.
i’m so early omgggg, but the fatphobia on pinterest is real, i’m intro the y2k aesthetic and its just pics of skinny people and i’m not one so make me feel rlly bad bc i’m not in the rules to be a y2k girl
SAME! I find it so hard to actually get inspired and have a good time on the app cause it’s literally just skinny girls with small waist and tiny boobs, and that’s just not me. Its the entire lack of exposure to other body types (and races for that matter) for me
I mostly have an eboy aesthetic (i dont do skirts too much bc enby dysphoric things) although I definitely switch between that, skater girl, cottagecore, and soft. I basically have the aesthetic of kaiisyourhomie lol. but I'm around 20 pounds overweight and I NEVER see girls who look like me. they're all tall and skinny and I'm barely 5'4 and I'm not skinny by any means. I already have an eating disorder and not seeing any girls who look like me isn't doing my mental health and favors
@@madds14 im actually 5’7 and my weir is 194 pounds (yeah so bad ik) and in pinterest you just see super skinny people looking so good and when you wanna try on those clothes you realize that your not looking like the pinterest girls and in my case make me feel so anxious
I am as someone who used to be like emo in 08 til now. I really feel like e-girl aesthetics original fashion mostly stems from the grunge, emo, punk, and scene. Also y2k but specifically like hats track suits a lot of that came from like the bling bling hip-hop which mostly came out of black spaces. 💕✨
About the e-girl aesthetic I notice how some ppl from that claim to be “alt” or alternative. From what I know alternative fashion is the collation of emo, punk, goth and scene. Some of the pics shown were from 2014-16 tumblr girl vibes so ig that tumblr girl aesthetic is another rendition to the og alt??? Just how I see things and based of as someone who has seen this aesthetic actually grOw but don’t take my words for it
Personally I find the e-kid aesthetic frustrating, not because its a new alternative style (tho it could be argued that its not alternative considering its so in-trend and easily accessible) but because it stems from anti pop-culture subcultures. The punk, goth and grunge cultures are all music based and anti-corporation while e-kids actively promote the mass shopping of fast fashion brands* and other unethical (mainly shopping related) habits. There's also a massive issue of cultural appropriation of Black and Asian styles and culture (despite the anti-racist roots of punk) such as the "fox eye" trend. Maybe I'm too dedicated to older styles but the e-kids really just don't sit right with me. *I'm not here to shame people who use fast fashion, I'm working class and unfortunately I'm guilty of using it myself
@@fernw8001 I feel the same, I’m 27 and grew up on alternative music and fashion, even my mother (who is black) was a punk in the early 80s lol, and seeing these e-kids give me a weird feeling, maybe that’s how older people felt about us when we were emos and scene kids lol
I haven't watched the video yet, but I've always noticed how in media the fair skinned girls can be the soft, gentle, flowery princess, long dress wearing, pastel aesthetic girl etc. etc. (you get the point) but the darker skinned girls (and boys too) are only ever the "sexy exotic beauty" , "spicy indian chic" . And that is when they are portrayed in a desirable role. Idk if its internalised colourism or whatever, but whenever I hear "romantic academia" ,"cottagecore" , soft girl etc, the image of a dark skinned girl never forms in my mind. edit: ok so apparently a lot of people relate. p.s I'll just clarify where I'm coming from/ I'm indian and in like 90% of popular media fair=good and dark=bad, fairness products are shamelessly advertised to death, and the thing I talked about in my comment holds true as well. And of course, the demonization of dark people in films(especially bollywood, i.e. hindi cinema) isn't even moderate .A character will be dark and the super milk white "hero" will make a joke about it and the audience will outright laugh. There was this recent film about "accepting our flaws or whatever" and they tackled colorism through a character, but they kinda tried to say "dark isn't pretty" at the same time, and casted a fair skinned actress and basically painted her dark so idk
Thiiiiiiissss. My experience is that, for me, with the media I consume etc. woc are not allowed to express their femininity in the same or multitudinous ways a white woman can. When I say not allowed I mean in the sense that it’s never shown or represented perpetuating the idea that woc can’t. Like you said woc the majority of the time are sexualised in media and condemned for being so ‘sensual’ or whatever but at the same time other aesthetics subliminally say ‘woc could never’ ygm??
The Jezebel stereotype is one in which black women are constantly being sexualized and this also applies to black children as well - within the black community there’s an issue where people will call little black girls “too grown” while white girls who wear the same clothes as them are “trendy” or “cute”. 1 in 4 black girls are sexually assaulted before 18 and this stereotype of describing black women as promiscuous is partially why
this and every time black and poc are portrayed as “exotic” it just further pushes the narrative the white people are “normal” and the “standard” human being and everyone else is an “other.” i also find it difficult to image dark skin people especially dark skin black women in feminine roles despite the fact that i am one which makes me sad bc it just goes to show how i’ve been conditioned to believe that ppl like me are not main characters and only behave a certain way :(
@@chloroxbleachbeverage7884 I hate how i unconsciously fell into this mindset tok but I'm tryna get out of it (I'm brown but I've noticed that black people rarely get the role of cute and feminine). I love art so lately I've been tryna draw diverse people of diffrent colors, genders, sizes etc in so many diffrent styles of clothes. I hope one day media can start doing that too
Somewhat on the topic of blackfishing, something similar to that that's happening is the "fox eye" trend which are girls making a very dramatic angled liner and then pulling back their eyes to imitate Asian eyes. It's very similar to cat eye eyeliner but what personally pushes it into being problematic for me, is people pulling back their eyes to specifically intensify this look that has so often been used to mock Asian people for their racial features.
@CrappyOneshots yeah it’s the hand gestures. Ppl don’t see it as problematic since the r@cism towards Asians have been so normalized. And it sucks but there’s nothing much we can do if ppl don’t acknowledge it as problematic
@@partehpatty9131 I agree wholeheartedly. I’m not Asian (I’m black) but I’ve see on social media how the Asian culture has even been appropriated and no one talks about it... and let me not even talk about these “cat eye” filters, I’m not trying to be a shit stirrer or make something out of nothing but these filters have gotten too far.... (and a big example of Asian culture appropriation is the Kim kardashrian (idk how to spell her name 😬) “Kimono” thing. That pissed me right off. Also another example is those Asian “inspired” outfits that are risqué and used for fashion while watering down the rich history and meaning of the garment...)
A tip for anyone who uses Pinterest for outfit inspo but wants to see people who look like them: make a private board where u upload pics of urself whenever u wear an outfit u like. After you add enough pics, on that boards more ideas section, Pinterest should start giving you outfits similar to your style, by people who look like you ! Hope this helps lol
Let's not forget that in the 2000s french-inspired rural fashion was popular in China way before farmcore or countrycore was coined. And yet they don't get credit for it when so many girls get their online clothes from chinese brands.
@selenite Yeah, they should be. And they do. Why do you think China gets roasted all the time for their copycats due to their lax copyright/patent system? Calling shitty stuff Chinese knock-offs is like a staple of our language. Like bruh, use your brain. Also it’s not about cancelling cottage core or whatever, but acknowledging where inspiration had its roots from. Even with the Chinese brand shit, you knew they were inspired by French dresses. It’s kind of hard not to, given that we all know what European fashion looks like. Lol
@selenite saying what I said in a mocking tone not an argument. You know I’m right. Chinese appropriating cultural products is not considered acceptable to other first world countries. Also, cancelling in the first place is pretty useless. It all it ever amounts to is some name calling and that’s it, hence me saying China is “cancelled” for its shitty copying. I don’t think I’ve ever seen canceling work for more than a year. This is why critique is where it’s at yall! I’m so glad we can talk about the origins of cottage core and how it spread.
I’m so early omg but yes I always try to be inclusive on my Pinterest bc I’m a WOC myself, but I ALWAYS see thin, white girls and the occasional girl that looks racially ambiguous...nothing wrong with a white girl dressing this way but I just wish there were people that looked like me, racially but also size wise.
Curating your feed to try and show you woc and poc is super important. I started at least three boards on pintrest dedicated to saving poc and then kind of sorting them out into "black [whatever genre] aesthetic" and it's helped so goddamn much.
Honestly, sometimes I search for something on we heart it and get so sick of seeing the exact same girls and faces and features and bodies and everything I have to go out of my way with my search terms to see some variety
Whenever someone asks for what my aesthetic is, I just say "Whatever looks good on me and whatever I like". I have various types of clothes and to force myself into a title or aesthetic seems suffocating to me.
If I started organizing all the shit I have into aesthetics, I would have 30. I would be microlabeling down to every cut and color, every shade of blue and red. I just say I’m “eclectic” now with aesthetics, it’s not worth it bro
I don’t go on tiktok anymore because of all the pressure around “aesthetics”, it makes me feel very anxious. I’ve found myself pressuring myself to fit a certain “aesthetic”. But I realized that everything I find interesting and pleasing to myself is my own personal “aesthetic” that I created which makes me feel a lot better.
*Edit* -I did NOT expect this to blow up like this. My insta is @k4ndixgr4ves1992 if any of yall wanna see what I look like ,--, "e-girl" is kind of a buzzword for me. I've been doing the goth thing since about late 90s, yearly y2k and these people would bully and beat me up for "dressing like a freak" and now these egirls are dressing like me and acting like they were the og goths. it wouldn't bother me if no one was cruel to me or beat me up over it, but it's super awkward when the same girls that beat you up and bullied you, not only for being black, but for lookin a "freak" and are now askin me where I shop/makeup and hair advice =/...so I'm watching these skinny white girls that beat me and publicly *humiliated* me using me as "inspo" but not giving me any credit and everyone thinks * they * look cute now because it's more acceptable. I still get shit from e-girls for being goth...I just wanna be left alone to do my thing
I COMPLETELY get your point!! And I’ve been called “gatekeeper” just for talking about this, but it just bothers me! How come many years ago I was dressing like an “e-girl” and getting severely dragged till the point it affected my mental health for a while and now these lil girls wanna be and “act” all “emo” outta nowhere when they don’t even have the background/ understanding of how culture plays a big role in all this? There’s this guy who really bullied me in school and called me “inappropriate” for just existing and minding my own business who happens to be an “e-boy” now and had the audacity to dm ME about some jewelry and even said “those things you were wearing back in the day”...man, I just can’t.
Honestly screw them. Goths and punks are meant to rebel against society, they stand up for justice, and what they truly believe in. It's more than a fashion statement. It's the kind of person you are. Their tremds will come and go, but this is you
Someone finally said it😔🤚🏻 it’s so frustrating that most of these styles were looked down on and suddenly they’re in so they think it’s great. Like no man you bullied me for this like a year ago, really?? I’m so sorry you had to go through that💕💕
@@thelimbomotel exactyl! but also man oh man i hope eeryone who was bullied cuase of being all of that is okay :( ngl e-girls also just take a more approach of "uwu anime blushy girl with edgy" kinda like mememe-
I’m a Muslim girl and no matter how hard my life becomes, I ain’t ever wearing that 💀 Muslims can wear whatever they like because we are human beings so I’ll stick to my pretty and cute clothes with dresses and shirts thank you very much that kind of clothing ain’t for me
@@DoodleDoo2 I mean, I am still wearing some cute outfits, just wearing them with jeans that’s all. It’s alright if the look isn’t for you but that doesn’t mean that it’s innately a bad look for everyone else😶
I think there's an intersection where discussing pintrest aesthetics begins to observe fascism in aesthetic culture... but I can't pinpoint what that would be
on pinterest, they have a "skintone option" solely when searching up curly hair, because they're fully aware of the complaints of whitewashing, in hair that's helpful but in every other regard they haven't done anything to make the platform more diverse
one little note on what she said; in Europe most people were to poor to actually be plus size since they didn't have the food and on top of that did heavy psychical labor that burned way to many calories. However the beauty standard for the middle and upper class (about 10-20% of the population) was being plus size which most of them managed to be, and the reason for this beauty standard was literally that you didn't want to look like the poorer masses. So yeah the people that "counted" were plus size but the majority was technically not. (However the shift in beauty standards related to racism that she talks about doesn't change in anyway)
It is the same story over and over again, the upper class not wanting to look like the bottom of the barrel of their population. A similar situation I think that happened in Colombia not many years ago. The upper class would not be almost expose themselves to the sun light to not get tanned and therefore be whiter. This was because the lower classes had to work on the fields doing whatever they have to do and they would get dark skin. I mean, this situation is what always upper class do, access to what is most uncommon. Nowadays I would say that the upper class aims to reach material things like pricey cars, houses, etc. All what the (even high/middle high classes can't reach) middle to lower classes cannot have. This video shows the same story of even humanity I would say, but with a different object being taken by the upper class. In this case the weight and so forth. I mean, the video addresses things that are true (for the most part and with a mix of bias), but described as if they were brand new stuff. Even though it is the same thing that goes over and over with a different canning.
@@jordanatheresa no worries! Like I siad it doesn't change the point or anything but I figured it might be interesting and/or helpful just to point it out
Yeah, the way she said it sounded as if most people had enough food to be overweight, which is definitely not the case. Actually it's the opposite, most people starved and only the nobility and rich ate well, so it makes sense why being plus sized was in fashion, since it meant you were rich enough to afford lots of food. The obesity epidemic is a very recent thing
This is why I find nowadays situation so interesting (idk what word to use). As we now generally have enough food but prize people for eating very little. So it's the opposite of baroque era (also there was 30-years long war in whole Europe at that time which made fuller figure desirable and at the same time untenable). Also, a different story could be said about early medieval times. As the upper class didn't have signifiedly more than others. And gothic aesthetics preferred lean and tall figures (tall hats etc.). But then again racism kind of seems to start in the 16th century with colonization (kind of interesting that races were literally invented at the end of 18th century by white supremacist). As slaves in antique Greece used to be just prisoners of war.
@0 0 true, you are correct. but they do have stores across the world and many people of color and bigger people have had bad experiences there because they dont fit the standard, which is sad. They need more inclusion anyways. period. Plus they know that most people who buy from brandy are people from the US.
@0 0 Just like how in Asia people are mostly slim and shorter, even their feet size being smaller. Those from around the world, if they like something from their stores, either have to deal with it if something doesn't fit, or take many sizes up, which not always is possible since the majority there AREN'T those sizes, so the stores have no need to make bigger sized clothes, even if their websites are available to people from other countries, where there are a lot of large people. Many somehow have problems with that, since they have to fit the clothes, not the clothes having to fit them, if you understand what I mean.
Even the definition of “E-girl aesthetic” is super Eurocentric. Many of the makeup and fashion trends were already popular in subcultures and the mainstream of Asia (particularly Japan) way before they became popular in predominately white countries.
Yeah, but it was mostly borrowed from rock, metal, punk and grunge. I don't see the problem partially belonging to Harajuku. Harajuku isn't very wearable irl while E-girl style can be.
@@georgiakapetaniou761 They will literally find a flaw in everything. E-girls are usually very progressive and they wouldn't discriminate poc alt kids. Also, if an aesthetic was borrowed from other cultures it's problematic but if it's 100% "white culture" it's also problematic and also if an aesthetic is created by poc then other people wouldn't be allowed to wear it. People just want to be mad about everything, dictate, play the victim and ruin everyone's fun when it usually doesn't impact their life.
A lot of times when you search “black ____” it’ll just show white girls with black hair or wearing black clothes lmao you have to be sure to put “___ black girl”
Black isn't race though. If you want to be more specific, you have to write the actual name of said race you are searching for. So, it is understandable why your searches come up the way they do.
@@cindyk7055 In my soc class we distinguished between race and ethnicity. Basically there are only 3 races: White, Black, and Asian. Then the rest are ethnicities. The two terms are often used interchangeably even though they are different despite how similar they seem.
white people telling black cosplayers that they can’t cosplay anime characters bc they’re not pale and asian while also not being asian themselves but it’s ok bc they share similar skin tones???
@@nixxdra yes! I can't currently invest in materials or clothes for any aesthetic. I've seen on the internet how expensive they are. I'm not black myself, but my I'm sad to see so few black people in aesthetics and cosplay, and not just that
I associate cotagecore with gardening and nature more than with fashion. It's a lot home made stuff like tea or baking and jams, home grown veggies, fruits, herbs and diy for me. Like imagine working in frilly dress.
I remember once I posted a pic on a goth/alt subreddit, and got a message from one of the admins telling me the pic was not in the aesthetic. I stared at it for so long trying to understand what was the thing that made it not fit and suddenly realized it was my skin... I straight up asked her “would you say the same thing if I was white?”. Only then she realized that my skin color was the reason for what she said, it’s so crazy how deep in our minds racism and fatphobia have an influence on how we see things.
man reddit be similar to 4-chan because of the degenerates and shit lmao anyways still you didn't deserve that >:( your beautiful then pinterest girls :D also i dont get why people cant just respect others tf
Just a note: according to “My Thoughts Will Probably Offend You”, Tess Holliday wasn’t actually on any Worst Dressed lists, and people have pointed out she was also on some Best Dressed lists too. I don’t doubt that people were negative towards her wearing the dress online but the fact that she was lying to play the victim is not really okay. While I think the message of fat phobia is important and I don’t want to come across like I’m discounting people’s struggles, I personally don’t think Tess Holliday is a good example to use. I’m fine with her superficially being a role model for larger girls in the fact that she is her weight but still gorgeous. However, personally I think she is problematic and a bad role model and I don’t like the way she conducts herself or the things she promotes - I would recommend watching some videos of people criticising some of the things she does to see the full picture! She’s done everything from scamming people, lying to making a racist remark sooo
exactly, it just wasn't the right setting; she wore a picnic dress to the mf grammy's. fatshaming is never okay but trying to victimise yourself for clout is not okay either
Sorry but 18:19 the strawberry dress, Tess was being very selective when she showed all the articles condemning her outfit, there was just as many articles that put her on the Best Dressed list for that night as well, I remember reading them and agreeing that she had pulled out all the stops with her look. However the 'is it a good outfit' meme does crack me up, and is very important i think when it comes to people's body dysmorphia or low self esteem and not wanting to experiment with their styles due to the bullshit external societal pressure and standards. Great video, Jordan and I'm definitely gonna look into that fatphobia book too!
And also the fact that she was being criticised for wearing it at a "formal" event and it didn't fit the theme, no one said the dress was ugly or that it didn't look good on her. She looked incredible but it wasn't for the right event.
All the TikTok aesthetics were already existing styles. All they did was give the styles names. I've worn "Cottagecore" and "Dark Academia" styles pretty much my whole life.
@@Jaybirdieblue What? No. These "Aesthetics" (which is a misuse of the word), are fashion styles that have existed for decades if not millennia. Tumblr didn't create anything except for "Tumblr girls".
@@Anna-hh7td Search for it! The specific thing you're looking for is what you should put in the search bar and save the images that you like, that way the algorithm can learn what you like and recommend it.
Honestly I love Pinterest but I have to take breaks from it because when your feed is only skinny pretty white girls, it’s inevitable that you’ll compare yourself and harm your mental health. Love that we can finally have a discussion because I always thought I was just making this up in my head because no one was ever talking about it.
I was going to make a video about fatphobia, inherent anti-poc, and the most popular aesthetics of this year. And how *depop* (hisses) has a big influence on it! So I'm incredibly excited to watch this.
@@KRfromthePaleozoic that's way better than up to a year ago, honestly. It took me a while to find shoppers who were consistently selling large sizes, especially when it came to vintage wear older than the 90s. I know they offer up to 3X but I rarely find listings that mention or have those items
I’m indigenous from Canada and I’ve never seen representation of indigenous people in literally any form of media. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an indigenous person in media being represented if it isn’t focusing specifically on our culture. I think we are so under represented in this way that people forget to even include us in conversation about being diverse.
same, i’m not indigenous but for some reason i look like i am so it’s always sucks seeing people ‘forget’ to include them bc i want to see ppl that look like me
The only thing that comes to my mind is the game Infamous: Second Son. The protagonist is part of the Akomish people apparently and it's not a huge focus of the plot, more just part of his identity. Though I can't say how accurate the representation is
A lot of times when you have a more “traditional” aesthetic like vintage fashion or some interpretations of cottagecore, you end up having to be extra clear that you are not trying to be a trad wife bc alt right weirdos love that stuff
for me the “”y2k”” i’ve been seeing is not the y2k i grew up on 💀💀. it is heavily whitewashed and honestly kind of a mockery of what it actually is. y2k for me (growing up, seeing my mom, cousins, aunts) was ghetto as hell. thin eyebrows, blue eyeshadow, big jewelry, bling pants, gold jewelry, long nails, babyphat, flea market knockoffs, logomania, etc. which is all cultural to me. so to see ppl say that they are “y2k” it’s weird... it’s like mocking my culture in a way because it takes away from why we dressed that way in the first place. the clothes were cheap and nice, it wasn’t an aesthetic, it’s a lifestyle.
As a skinny poc I want other skinny girls to remember that it's not wrong to be skinny just because being thick is in fashion rn , love your body as it is
@Caylyn it all comes down to what makes you happy. People need to stop caring so much about what others think and have the confidence to be comfortable just the way they are. This is coming from someone who's ugly.
i also feel like this is what happens with Billie Eillish and Muslim women, like Billie gets praised for the reasons behind her baggy and modest clothing while Muslim women have been doing it for years and it's not that we want praise, it's just that we get criticized for it and it's automatically seen as oppression if we CHOOSE to dress that way or we're automatically boring and uptight prudes for dressing in loose/baggy or modest clothing for the reason of not wanting to be sexualized or putting our bodies on display... but when a white girl like Billie does it for the same reasons, it's suddenly trendy and amazing...
Diana Maria I mean, I’m a Muslim girl but I choose to wear clothes to cover myself by my choice and because my religion approves of it. Not because I’d get beating from my “husband” or parents 💀
@@dianamaria4871 it is against islam to force someone to dress a certain way or to harm someone if it isn't self defense. people who do that aren't doing that bc they're muslim, but bc they're horrible people. if you saw an atheist do something like that, you'd think it was an individual mistake, but the second a muslim does it, you want to hold the billions of people that are part of that religion accountable
It’s not only about being skinny. You have to have the perfect proportions and smooth, gold skin. And you have to be at least 5’4 but not more than 5’9 because we want to make as many women feel bad as possible.
Can we talk about how underrepresented men are in these aesthetics. For some reason every time there's a big fashion trend it seems to almost always be centred on women. Of course there are exception but women seem to be, overwhelmingly, catered to by these aesthetics. I'm male and I love fashion, I love wearing cool clothes and new styles, but too often I find myself having to translate female looks to make them wearable rather than seeing myself or my body represented in media. Which is really really frustrating.
yeah I tried looking up some looks specifically for boys and literally all of it was for women. I like alt fashion which is known to push the boundaries for gender roles yet all I saw were girls. I'm not even a boy, I'm an enby, but I lean more masculine so itd be nice to see more people like me edit: I'm perfectly aware that clothes dont have a gender, i just wish I saw more people that looked like me. I'm fine with wearing fem clothes but I wanna sometimes look masculine too
omg this!!! maybe it is bc men are less commodifiable than women are in society, and the pursuit of beauty (whether it be expressing fashion through clothes or possessing a certain body) is already something traditionally associated with women so they are considered a more profitable and reliable market than men are.
It also annoys me bc men's fashion is just so much easier. They have similar problems in that white muscly dudes get more praise, however they barely have to think about what aesthetic they are or whatever and gave all these judgements no matter what they wear. I have four brothers and it's insane how they have literally had my mom pick out random clothes for them and they don't have to think about what ppl are gonna think. But on tiktok and such there's infinite hate on different styles and aesthetics and ugh it's just so inequal
I remember when I was in middle school before Kim K made big butts a thing in 2016 and I was made fun of for being overweight and when I ran some girls behind me laughed at me because my butt “jiggled”. Now I’m a healthy weight but don’t have a fuller body and now curves are a trend. It sucks when people make your size trendy because that’s means other people’s bodies aren’t. It shouldn’t be like that.
i hate it when people start comparing different problems like skinnyshaming and fatshaming. they are two completely different problems that both have been relevant for centuries. the beauty standard is constantly changing so therefore there is no "right" way to compare the two and find out which one is worse. they're both bad, let's just leave it at that
Hi, "slim-thicc" person here...I think the problem is that there are no systemic disadvantages to being skinny in modern capitalist society. I'm not going to be denied medical treatment or be turned down for a job because of my body weight. Plus-sized women and people in general are subject to institutionalized discrimination that I will never understand, nor will anyone else who fits into a more societally acceptable body. I understand that right now, my natural body type is "in fashion," and when I was a kid, a skinnier body was in fashion. But when we're talking about fatphobia, we're not talking about slimthicc people. I think part of the problem is that "fatshaming" is used as a bit of an umbrella term for anyone who's not a size 4, which I disagree with.
Also, check out the part in her video that talks about race being a part of fatphobia! It goes much, much deeper than individual bad-faith comments made to individuals. You are allowed to feel hurt by negative comments made about your body, whether it's skinny or thicc, just like white people are allowed to feel hurt due to hardship. But the fact is, white people don't have the same systemic disadvantages as Black people or POC in general in the US, just like thinner people don't have the same macro, systemic struggles as larger people in the west, whether your body is "en vogue" or not. Hope that helps!
@@LivSenghor you JUST proved her point, she said that these 2 are DIFFERENT problems and should NOT be compared , it doesnt matter if skinny or bigger ppl have it worse , body shaming in general is bad STOP COMPARING it
@@nurselihasanli4146 Oh no, I definitely agree we need to stop comparing them 100%. I just think part of it is not bringing up skinny shaming when someone is talking about fat shaming, you know?
BMI wasn't even create by a health or medical expert. And we STILL use it today Edit : he was a mathematician, for those who wanted to know. His name is Lambert Adolphe Jacques Quetelet
VIDEO IDEA: I would love to see your opinion/insight on the ‘trend’ of (usually) straight, cis teen girls that almost obsess over gay guys (that are also usually white, cis, etc.). This can be seen in TV shows, movies etc. where there will be a large female teen audience that ship two male characters together, even to the extent of ‘shipping’ real-life male celebrities, or these straight girls writing NSFW fanfictions including fetishising gay men. Would love to hear your research and take on this phenomenon. (Note: I commented this on her previous video, but I'm here early so I couldn't resist! Stay safe everyone!)
It's interesting. I know that sanrio created a anime about boys to promote their characters like hello kitty, etc and of course since the target demographic were girls, there was boy love however none of the characters were gay. Is this media progressive, helpful or unhealthy and harmful?
Yea, this also applies to the kpop community, even if the companies push those ships, and their culture are different to ours, some girls are so creep to the extend where they put idols in some roles because they saw it on a fanfic
With all do respect, as someone who's been around male and female gay slash fans alike (not me, I'm not into slash). Yes some of them are creepy, but I don't think people who aren't involved in these communities or have never had any meaningful interaction with these communities should talk about it. Most of the information surrounding the subject in the west is incredibly outdated. The problem with this conversation is that it usually involves a lot of erasure of the real experiences of gay men and gay/bisexual women with this type of media. I've met a lot of gay men and women who said the media allowed them a safe outlet to figure themselves out. I'm sure the grossness revolving around the teens who ship irl people together can be discussed in a tasteful way, but I have yet to see it.
I’m so glad you mentioned BMI - I remember being 8 years old and my Wifit telling me I was overweight which pretty much sparked my ED which I still struggle with today! It didn’t factor in that I am mixed race so it’s interesting to learn how BMI is technically racist!
yes as a teen it's because we feel a lot of pressure to fit in, since our looks and appearance(especially as girls) is valued too much, even more than our personalities
@@leonamay8776 ohh I see haha, that's a good thing though because it shows that you don't let other people's opinions bother you or affect you. I hope I can get to that point soon
Actually I'm a teen and love dark academia, it's actually really got me interested in new thing like reading, writing and chess. I think it's good to be interested in aesthetics but there's a point to how far you can take it cause it can make you insecure.
To add insult to injury, POC are the ones who originally started a lot of these alternative aesthetics! Punk was started in Latin America by Los Saicos, The gothy aesthetic was first brought into mainstream with a song by a black man Jay Hawkins "I put a spell on you" , & Rock originated from black artists! Many of the people starting these are poc but then are kicked out of their own creation by white people who're white washing the fashion. Most of these Alt aesthetics also address class, because punk is against the rich and makes it's aesthetic by d.i.y, recycling items, & thrifting which has always been popular among these subcultures since the foundation. It sucks that all these Alt aesthetics are labeled as "white only" when it comes from POC through and through, even if white people have overshadowed them for decades.
@Edboiyoma Boima When my friend joked about whether white americans have culture I was about to say cowboys and country music.... now I think they only have hollywood 😂
TW: Disordered eating/fat-shaming/fatphobia as someone who grew up really chubby and got bullied for being big and then developed an eating disorder, skinny shaming is nothing compared to fat shaming. at my lowest weight, my doctor had to sit me down and ask me about my diet and exercise routine when i went for a regular check up because my weight was so concerning. around that time friends would mention they were concerned, but strangers who'd just met me would tell me i should consider modeling. of course my friends were concerned because they saw the rapid change in my appearance, but new coworkers, people in my classes, and sexual partners i had at the time would hype up my clinically unhealthy figure. I had fucking bones poking out of every corner of my body, and people praised it. I got the occasional remark that i needed to eat a cookie or whatever, but the fact that these remarks were said to me playfully and the fat-shaming was often done indirectly (eg boys commenting to each other that my initials being SS was fitting because I was the size of a ship, hearing someone say "fat ass" when I tripped, people assuming i was stupid because of my weight, people assuming i was lazy because of my weight, and overall things they KNEW would be too mean to say to me directly) so i never wanna hear ANYONE fucking compare skinny shaming to fatphobia. i've lived both experiences (tbh when I was chubby as a kid i really wouldn't even say i got the full exposure to the way actual fat bodies are treated by society) and having someone tell you to "eat a cheeseburger" is nothing compared to being told you are useless, lazy, undisciplined, unintelligent, or annoying simply because of your size.
all i got from this was "i haven't been through this issue so it doesn't exist and everyone else should shut up". god this is why i fucking despise the body positivity ppl (not the definition of the movement, but the people) now. girl... just because you haven't been thin shamed that doesn't mean other people have lmao. fatphobia is more common for sure but that doesn't mean that skinny shaming isn't a bad thing, which is CLEARLY what you indicated here
@@jahnaviraman5411 also to be clear i never said mocking someone's body was a good thing but good on you for pulling that out of your ass.... bc apparently not actively praising thin ppl is equivalent to shaming them
Your exactly right! I was on both sides of the spectrum, I was skinny but over time was plus sized because I ate more do to trauma and finding comfort in food. I have tried losing weight but it just doesn't work. I drink water and eat healthy, but when I eat something people tell me to "stop eating" but when a skinny person eats the same thing and same amount their allowed to do it. I was so insecure growing up because of it.
@@jahnaviraman5411 Your definitely coming from a skinny perspective. What their saying is that skinny shaming isn't NEARLY as bad, and when people bring it up they bring it up to undermine fat shaming. good god, how did the point fly over your head?
It bothers me when people say "Not everything about race", yes, it is, I didn't made it that way, put your energy into creating a time machine and fight the people who actually created a racist system
@Kill it with fire not really..I think they just mean that most things in life are really about race. They mean if you don’t want every aspect of life to have to be about race you should go back in time and stop the colonists.
@Kill it with fire and actually I’ve just studied The British Empire and yes I would rather take things like racism, classism, colourism, stereotypical mindsets away from the world rather than have them here and still have white people appropriating culture anyway.
This conversation is a tricky one for me because I am a white girl who sees representation everywhere but the problem tends to be in the weight debate. I’m not skinny but I’m also not large, so all I see is either a skinny girl or a plus size girl rocking cool outfits that don’t work on me because I either need to lose weight to fit in to one group or gain weigh to fit in with the other. There’s just not a lot of representation for the medium size girls who like the same aesthetic as their small/ large peers. I don’t know if that makes any sense but it’s just frustrating.
Like yerh. I'm 147cm. Have a A75 chest. A big fat belly and hips. I look like sh*t no matter what I put on because of my stomach. I ofcurs could just put on the clothes. But it wouldn't look good. Sorry to bust anyones bubble. The reason anything look better on flat or curvy (and I mean curvy, not 200+lbs of fat) is that those shapes are just nicer for the eyes. Even shapes and symmetry is just the pettyest to see. That's why a big fat person with round lumbs sticking out from everywhere will never look as good as a skinny waste with big boobs and hips. That's just realty
I have the exact same problem . Midsize people don’t get as much representation:( . I’m a brown girl and I can’t find a SINGLE midsize alt poc . Although I have found some midsize youtuber here
@@cupcakehips9236 u edited that? I like, can’t read it at all. I think you said something at the end about how fat bodies are inherently unattractive though, because of how they’re shaped. As a fat person who finds themselves and other fat people attractive- no.
Worse for medium sized curvy women. I'm trying to find more sustainable brands that cater to curvy women and I keep getting plus sized brands. It's great that plus sized women have more options obviously but those clothes won't fit me bc I'm a size 8. Trying to find pants that fit my body like the american eagle curvy fit jeans bc I want to stop buying fast fashion and I just can't lmao
I don't think the whole "is it a good outfit or is she just skinny?" question is skinny shaming AT ALL. This questions is just challenging society's beauty standards and how we treat thin people compared to fat or plus-sized people. Skinny shaming is way different than this. If you have a body that is seen as socially acceptable or beautiful by society, than I really doubt that skinny shaming is something you come across in your life often. When you're actually underweight, and get shamed for your body, whether it's by being called a bean pole or being told you need to eat more or being asked if you're starving yourself or suffering from an eating disorder or having people shaming you for your eating habits, that is more of what skinny shaming is. Being underweight, and what people would call "skin and bones" can heavily effect your life and how people treat you as well. It is not deeply rooted in racism like fat shaming is and I don't even think it goes back as far as fat shaming does, but I do recognize that skinny shaming is still a problem. However, skinny shaming should not be used as a rebuttal to fat shaming or questioning society's beauty standards. Like I said, "is it a good outfit or is she just skinny" is not skinny shaming and I'm tired of people acting like it is. It is literally just pointing out the double standard that thin people get praised more for things that plus-sized people get made fun of and ridiculed for
i honestly don’t think it’s skinny shaming either i mean take low rise jeans is it good or is she just skinny?? she’s just skinny because legs be honest if anyone that’s not considered “skinny “ wears some they’ll get shamed for it and it just doesn’t fit “non skinny” people
it’s not skinny shaming and fat shaming is deffo worse but skinny poc girls especially black girls are treated better than bigger poc women (sorry if the wording is wrong) but have issues with not fully fitting the beauty standard because they’re poc and not fitting their communities beauty standard because they’re thinner, but then fat shaming is vile because it extends to denying health care and more
It has nothing to do with skinny shaming they are complimenting skinny girls like models by making "bad outfits look good" so they ask is this outfits pretty or it is pretty because the model/owner the person who wears it makes it look good with her body
It's so funny to me, as someone who grew up in a tiny village in the middle of nowhere where my grandma raised chickens and other small animals, getting bullied at school for being a "simpleton" with a funny village accent, that "cottagecore" is now a cool aesthetic that middle class skinny white girls from the city adopt to feel more "in connection with nature" because they have 4 plants in their expensive Hammersmith 1 bedroom flat lmfao
it’s kinda sad bc i also realize that in the pinterest algorithm they prefer white/skinny girls and there’s nothing wrong with being white and skinny but it also makes a lot of ppl feel left out.
As a plus size poc that LOVES the Y2k aesthetic I never really thought of how there wasn't much diversity, I just wear whatever I want however way that makes me comfortable and if anyone ever has a problem with it that's their fault for being a bigot. I haven't had any run ins yet with weird people who think that what I wear is their problem that they have to say something about it. Maybe that's just me though.
Something about the tess Holiday strawberry dress thing: She claimed she was included in some "worst dress lists" but when you actually search for it you can't find anything. She was on several best dressed lists though. She even said in an interview that it was only one or two lists and she didn't specify which. All you can find is her claiming she was on some lists but yeah, there are no lists. So saying she was put on several worst dressed lists, just because she said she was, isn't really accurate.
I was just about to make this comment. Everyone brings up the Tess Holiday situation to make a point, yet don’t actually do some research behind the “worst dress list” thing.
@@semolinalibra some of it is, but that’s not the only criticism- personally I don’t think it wasnt the right style for the event and that the dress wasn’t super flattering cause it kinda washed her out given her bright hair and pale skin
Can we talk about how “thicc” is now being used to describe skinny girls with just a slightly bigger bum? Real thick girls need to take that adjective back. There are women that are not necessarily plus size and not necessarily “regular” or petite which were then categorized as “thick” It’s such a grey area that I think people just tend to throw under the rug and it needs to be talked about. You did such an amazing job explaining these topics hon! I really appreciate you taking the time to educate the public and give us a voice! As much as I love Pinterest, it tends to be worse than Instagram in that sense. Xoxo!!
“thicc” is literally a word to describe a woman who’s at a normal weight but has big boobs, big butt, and big thighs. you literally cannot call an overweight/obese person “thicc” because they aren’t at a normal weight, don’t play off your extra 50lbs as “curves”
@@meghan_. they literally said it in the original comment "Women who are not necessarily plus size or petite". Only because you aren't slim doesn't mean you are obese.
@@foxi8216 they also said “thick” girls aren’t necessarily regular size either, so that means they aren’t thin, and if you aren’t regular size you’re either overweight or underweight. so if you can’t be “thick” when you’re plus size, petite, or regular, then i guess no one’s “thick”? and if you aren’t slim, you’re either overweight or underweight which is still bad lol, so technically what you said is wrong.
@@meghan_. so you are saying slim is regular and if you aren't slim you are overweight or underweight? What is with the medium people. They aren't slim but they also aren't overweight. In the original comment they meant these people.
Am I the only one who doesn't really like 'aesthetics'? They just feel so restraining and honestly I much prefer wearing whatever I'm feeling and if I were to classify my style with aesthetics it would probably just be an odd mix of several ones lol
@@nationssunshinefelix4482 Exactly! Obviously I understand maybe it making searching for people with a similar style easier (for style inspo and such), though this video alone proves how a limited amount of people (=skinny white girls) can actually have that privilege. Also I feel like popular aesthetics change super often and it just results in people spending way too much money because we see everywhere that being dressed up-to-date is important 🙄
I think of aesthetics the same way as labels, as long as they feel comfortable and work as a way to “find” yourself, they are harmless. BUT, the second they start to restrict you from living/dressing how you desire, they can be truly harming
I think they're helpful for those trying to find their signature style, but most of the time they just tend to promote fast fashion and get people to buy things because it's trendy.
Edit: I did it - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-sqSEOCGciUw.html I've actually been considering making a video about dark academia as an aesthetic because as a poc (and someone who enjoys the aesthetic) I have THOUGHTS about it lmao (the inherent elitism, racism, eurocetnrism etc etc)but I was kinda hesitant cause I didn't want to be a kill joy but idk now I might actually do it
it’s so ironic bc a lot of the books that inspired the dark academia aesthetic, (the secret history etc) are about the predatory nature and the inherent classism, racism and bigotry of academia. id really love to see your video on it!
Omg do it! Ns if you know about tumblr and the studyblr community but there have been discussions about dark academia not being inclusive and some people have even left the aesthetic behind because they did not want to support such a non inclusive space. On the same note though there were woc who were starting to gain traction and more presence in the dark academia scene. This shift happened very recently aligning with the blm movement this year
OMG I literally CRIED bc of this. One time i was searching for fashion inspo in pinterest and bc i got tired of just seeing skinny people in every outfit i saw I purposely searched for “plus size” outfit inspo and the results just made me feel AWFUL, all the pictures and articles i saw weren’t really about cute aesthetic outfits, but were more about how to hide the fact that one’s is fat or plus size in the first place (i saw a ton of “advise” type posts like “wear skinny jeans and baggy type shirts that hide the tummy” etc). Idk it just made me really sad and not empowered at all
We are. I think it’s because color wise we are closer to white people (those of European decent most often to be specific) and those who are black have drastically different skin tones, so when the topic of race comes up the first thing to come to people’s minds is the stark difference in color that is found in black and white people.
@@emmabauer3325 asia is very diverse, it really has the whole spectrum from extremely pale to brown and black. Im not Indian but for example India alone has people that are pale with blue eyes to people with dark skin and kinky curly hair. But ur right that us asians are often forgotten even though our natural features and cultures get objectified. But "women of colour" or "people of colour" is used often too, and i think thats inclusive to everyone, right? otherwise we would have to say "black people, asians, latin, middle eastern, etc" every single time.
As someone who grew up through Y2K, people were legit freaking out over it. We had preppers, doomsdayers, and other end of world type enthusiasts, all believing we were going to die. People were comparing it to Terminator, thinking robots were just going to pop outta thin air and kill us. It was a wild ride for little me, especially when my teachers were trying to convince some students we were not going to die. So having that as my background, it's kinda funny seeing Y2K being applied to fashion nowadays because it had an entirely different meaning when I was growing up. On Cottagecore/farmcore, I think it's a bit dangerous taking anything remotely country or agrarian like and labeling it 'colonialism'. I'm Native and most of my Native ancestors were farmers. Like they went out specifically to be farmers, not because the 'white man' ordered them to do so, like with sharecroppers(which is colonialism that should not be romanticized and equated with Cottagecore/farmcore). I think taking anything country related and labeling it as colonialism or romanticizing colonialism, completely ignores that farming and country life is something open to everyone and is not inherently colonist and racist. My Dad is a farmer and my little sister married a white cowboy, all of their own volition. I think labeling Cottagecore or any agrarian aesthetic is overthinking it or acting in bad faith. I'll bake all the bread and pick all the flowers I want in my Gunne Sax dress, and still be just as Native as before. On representation, I barely see it for Native women and see it even less for non-tribe affiliated Natives. Blood quantums are a massive issue and there's a huge amount of Natives blocked out of their tribes (such as myself when my Dad is literally an elder and has full tribal benefits), so when there is Native representation, any non-tribe affiliated Natives are lumped into the same group as Elizabeth Warren. Even worse, the blood quantum system is literally systemic racism designed to wipe us out, so it's especially painful when our own family members use it for its intended purpose. Native representation can be tricky because on one end, every time I see a Native person on social media, I'm filled with joy. On the other hand, it's a bit painful but all us tribe-less Natives, are pushed to the wayside and labeled 'white' or seen as lying about our heritage because we are not allowed to be active in our tribes. I don't think I can explain how painful it is being rejected from my heritage by my own family. I can recite my ancestors by heart, pick out their names on the rolls, and all of my older relatives are in the tribe but god forbid my Dad marry a white woman and life off the reservation. But yea, overall we need more POC representation as a whole, not just in the trending aesthetics and there are conversations regarding representation that need to be addressed within their respective communities.
There were some very weird ideas around the Y2K problem, but there were actual serious problems too. Thankfully we had people working on solutions for years in advance so most of them were averted. We still had a few problems, but it could have been much worse. It's really the perfect demonstration of a bigger problem. It was created by a complete lack of forethought. Using a two digit format for a year was always going to cause a problem in the future, but hey, the millennium is 20 years away. Who's going to be using this code in 20 years? The actual problems got mixed up with a whole load of exaggerated nonsense which muddied the legitimate issues. No planes weren't going to fall out of the sky, but software becoming unusable because your licence suddenly won't be issued for 97 years, people getting follow-up medical appointments scheduled for a year and a month later because the software can't put zero in a date field, some operating systems refusing to boot up because the date was invalid? All legitimate problems. And finally, because people worked hard for years to fix it, almost nothing happened and instead of people seeing this as a sign of how good the people working on the problems were and the importance of early intervention it gets remembered as a whole lot of worry over nothing. "See? 'Experts' are always predicting doom and gloom and it always turns out fine. We've got nothing to worry about."
Thank you for mentioning the “cottage core=colonialism” thing💀💀 I honestly don’t get it bc like?? Literally everyone else in the world farmed too?? People just like the more western version of the aesthetic, you know, in the west. I’m sure there are people who like, idk, Qing Dynasty farmer aesthetics somewhere. But most people here(including me) are coming from a more western perspective, so I feel like there’s a slight level of projection(??) going on. But hell yeah to more representation!!
I’m also Native America but I only found out recently through a DNA test as I was adopted at birth by a white man. I grew up in a prominently white family and my mother whom my adopted father had married, is Hispanic so many people, including myself thought I was also Hispanic. I felt as if I never belonged because my skin wasn’t fairer and I remembered when I was younger I wish I looked like all the pale girls in my school or at least looked more Hispanic? But now I know I am neither and never will be and I am proud to find out I’m Native American. This issue is that I don’t know what tribe I’m from or any ancestors or anything since I was adopted
As a writer, I constantly search Pinterest for aesthetics for my black characters. Even when I type in “black girl 90s aesthetic” I’ll often get pin after pin of white girls with black hair or black clothes
As kpop has taken off, the white beauty standard on social media has been reinforced once again as the korean beauty standard is heavily influenced by white being seen as beautiful. Also the thiness definetley influences young people and makes me sad that so many young kids will starve themselves to look like these idols. The fatphobia part of this video was a great introduction to the topic and will be picking the book up
Listen, I love this video but kpop has always been problematic it's not just kpop It's not just Eurocentric beauty standards Racist standards like that have always existed in Asia Take darker skinned Thai girls for example, or dark skinned philippino girls, or just look at Bollywood India This thing has been engraved into cultures everywhere since forever.
This is so true! After stanning BTS and getting more into korean entertainment i subconsciously started to adopt their beauty standards which is so fucked because I don't even live there but it was still affecting me. I had to check myself. And also it is very damaging hearing your faves say stuff like "im so dark" negatively knowing that your darker than them🤡. If getting a tan is the worst thing to them then how do they feel about the skin colours of all the fans darker than them😶
Just to add, the white in kpop is more of paleness. I won’t say there is no white washing but the paleness is not trying to be white. Historically if you were pale it meant nobility, not working outside etc.
@@ichigohimemiya2762 yes I was also going to say this. In reference with East Asians people need to call it paleness, not white washing or whatever. They are not trying to be white, like some Africans/African Americans are who skin lighten, but instead they have their historical context of wanting to seem more wealthy/better off not working in the sun.
thank you for this! pinterest is one of my favourite social media’s but you can’t deny what little diversity there is in it and it makes me so sad because i would LOVE to see the aesthetics represented by a variety of people
the colonialism is soooo true in australian context, probably the best example of a cottagecore movie is Picnic at Hanging Rock which is set just on the edge of colonialism era. a bunch of second generation colonial white private school girls having a fun picnic day out in nature with white flowing dresses and sun hats. you don’t see the horrors/ effects of indigenous assimilation that was also going on, only an unrealistic unsustainable perception of “natural” country life, which isn’t even a good standard for that ideal.
You explained fat phobia so well and made me understand it better. Anytime I saw comments on tiktok about how skinny shaming is the same as fat shaming it just didn’t seem right.
I’m so glad you’re pointing this out for people to realize. It took me so long to get confident in the styles that I want to wear as a woc because everyone I saw didn’t look like me and I thought that I couldn’t pull it off because I didn’t look like them. I’ve come to realize that just because you don’t look the same doesn’t mean that you both can’t be beautiful so thank you ❤️❤️❤️
As a fat girl, I can definitely agree with the “is it a good outfit or is she just skinny” bit. I really love e-girl aesthetics and such but I know being plus size, the trends won’t work for me. Especially fishnet tights under jeans or ripped jeans in general.
There’s a RU-vidr named light collin and she’s a plus sized gal who does the e girl aesthetic real well and does lots of hauls and try ons with affordable fits! Here’s one of my fave vids by her ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-pSODqjDk-Ws.html
there are also a lot of aesthetics that COME from communities of colour. I see lots of "trends" attributed to white, skinny girls that actually came from African-American culture and even overseas such as places like Asia. I'm half Asian myself and so I keep up with a lot of the pop culture over there. I am aware that modern Asian fashion is highly Americanised, however I still find it a bit strange that it is rare for people to say that Asia is at the forefront of fashion when that seems to be the case. Like Jordan said, egirl fashion is highly influenced by Japanese anime, not to mention lolita aesthetics too. And the amount of times that I have got on board with an Asian trend, only for it to be adopted by Western countries the next season is crazy! I have friends asking me how I can tell the future of fashion and that's literally why. For example, I know sweater vests most likely have English academia menswear origins, however they have been a staple in East Asian fashion for the past few years. Yet suddenly this year, everyone has one. It's not that the piece of clothing or aesthetic should be credited to Asia, because that's obviously not the case - sweater vests have been in and out of Western fashion for a long time. But, I find it strange that it's never Asian women, designers or stylists on people's pinboards, and it's rarely Asian people who are white people's "fashion insipiration" when I'm convinced a lot of trends are "brought back" or "renewed" because of the Asian fashion scene. It's always places in Europe that are affiliated with bringing something back and always white girls that are the "style icon" behind certain aesthetics. I can't speak for African-American culture as I am not black, nor am I American so I'm sure others have a more insightful opinion. But I have learned about SO MANY trends completely stolen from the black community. Y2K is a major example as the aesthetic is heavily influenced by the black community, made popular by black celebrities in the 2000s! I didn't even know that half of the 'staples' of Y2K came from black culture as it is NEVER credited and never shown on black women today which is absolutely ridiculous. I think it is absolutely fine to wear styles made popular by many different cultures, however there needs to be credit given where credit is due AND it should be those people of colour who are the "inspiration" across our pinterest boards
I remember going through my emo phase in middle school and not feeling as comfortable b/c I wasn't white. All the scene tutorials were white girls and the "emo/scene poser" videos always had black scene people in them so it made me feel like it wasn't for me. Now at 23 I dress how I feel and idgaf what anyone has to say about it b/c I pay for my clothes and I think I look great. But working at the mall I noticed all these kids (teens really) openly wearing grunge fashion, which in my day only "weirdos" wore, so it kinda tickled me. "Has everyone suddenly become emo?" < my thoughts. It's not exactly my style anymore, even though I love to see it be done, but it's really like everything that wasn't okay to wear in 2008/2009 is now THE fashion statement. It's why I wear what I want, because someone is going to like it and if hasn't already been trendy, it will be so who even cares. For a society that focuses heavily on individualism, when you don't go with the norm you're ostracized but when you do what's popular you're basic. You'll never win trying to be someone else, so always be yourself!
