As a wood turner and former maker of fine furniture, I can tell you I used shellac all the time. It's an excellent sanding sealer, as you mentioned, to seal and fill the smallest, invisible defects in the wood and leaving you with a smooth, polish-able finish. I've also done French polish on a number of pieces of furniture, some of which are still in my home, and it looks and feels better than the pieces I finished with polyurethane, and stands up to moisture and abuse better, too. Having said that, I unintentionally left a Queen Anne table outside for a few minutes and the hot sun got to it. As the heat built, the shellac in the French Polish did indeed bubble and distort, ruining the finish. I had to break it back down to the wood and start again with that one. Not fun, but lesson learned. To your point, I think a pipe with a LOT of shellac on it would maybe start to bubble or distort with the heat of smoking it, but not one with thin shellac used as a kind of sanding sealer. I haven't made pipes, but I've smoked them every now and again (until my body decided nicotine makes me nauseous), and I've always admired the craftsmanship and figure in a really nice piece of briar burl. I appreciate the rusticated look, but if I were to do it I think I'd try to show off as much of that figure as possible. It interests me that there are other woods out there for pipe making that you never seem to hear of, as if briar was the only acceptable wood used. I suspect a lot of rare, hard burls, like amboyna and mallee, would make a beautiful pipe, but I understand some woods are toxic, so they may not be usable. Have you ever done any work, other than practice, with other woods for your pipe making? I understand ash, hickory, maple (birdseye and straight), and olive wood are really good candidates.
The primary purpose of the video was to dispel the common myth in the pipe community that shellac somehow 'seals' or makes a pipe smoke badly. This isn't true. It's a fine finish for sandblasted pipes, but I don't care to use it for smooths because there are better options.
YES! Thank you! I once had a conversation with an older gentleman at a pipe club who went on a long rant about how horrible shellac was...while smoking an itailan blasted pipe which was almost certainly finished with shellac.
Hands down the best, most informative pipe videos on RU-vid. I’m excited to have just pulled the trigger on a beautiful J. Alan Smooth Fugu (1891). My first J. Alan!
I guess, when people say “breath” they mean the process of drying through evaporation... or I hope that’s what they mean. I’m not a pipe maker, but I’ve been doing finishes on wood for the past 20 years - anything, including shellacs, water based varnishes and all sorts of lacquers. In my opinion they all seal the wood more or less to the same degree, which of course would prevent any evaporation from the outer surfaces. The moisture inside the pipe would never be enough for it to go through the wood and reach the finished surface anyway, unless one drowns it in a sink or something 😂... so the drying will occur through the inner walls of the bowl and shank. The main difference to me is in the appearance and durability. Nice video anyway! Best wishes, be well!
I too use shellac and I echo the exact same points you have made. To me basic woodworking principals apply. Shellac is a finish, carnauba wax is a polish. If there’s no finish, there’s nothing to polish in which case carnauba alone is not sufficient. That’s my two cents. I’m not expert just my personal experience and knowledge applied. Great video! Thanks!
1. Briar, like all wood breathes. It's what it "breathes" that is the question. 2. It uses capillary movement, movement of liquid water and movement of vapour to achieve moisture movement, or a combination of all three. 3. Those exact principles are used daily to dry wood. Including briar. 4. The purpose of a briar burl is to store water for the plant in the first place, and physics doesn't "forget" this fact simply because the burl is harvested. 5. Sealing the outside is likely to hinder the movement of moisture to some extent, however most of the moisture will be absorbed by the cake long before it even reaches the chamber walls. 6. Wood absorbs water 8x SLOWER than it loses moisture. (It's easier for vapour to get out during drying, than for liquid water to get in during absorption). 7. Sawing an old well smoked pipe in half is likely to show only shallow absorption of moisture, which is contradictory to the idea of wood being a "sponge" until you realise that the moisture created during combustion contains tar, oils and other compounds that are likely to block any capillaries in the wood once it dries out again. 8. Summary, briar breathes, even when coated. However a buildup of tar/oils/minerals in the surface layers will block further moisture penetration.
Sure. You're attacking the problem from the other side. If what you're saying is true, and let's assume that it is, then the exterior treatment (in this discussion: Shellac) will have an even lower chance of impacting the performance of the pipe.
I was just reading about this on the forums. I keep getting stain on my hands after I smoke a pipe that I’ve made. Now I know why. Thanks for the video, Jeff! I’ll be sure to check out the website.
behindthepipe shellac is not the best finish for smooth pipes, but it is perfectly fine to use from a “clogging of the pores“ standpoint. Stain bleeding can occur because no sealing finish was used, the wrong sealing finish was used, or excessive moisture from your hands.
Great video buddy. You’re running some really nice equipment. Using shellac in my opinion makes it really easy for us pipe collectors to polish. I won’t be taking any of my pieces to a buffing wheel of death at any stage of the pipes life. It would end it all the moment it shot out of my hands and into the wall.
That's one of my goals, to make it easy for owners to fiddle with their pipes without damaging them. Now, I didn't state it in the video, but I only use shellac on sandblasted pipes. But it's not because of any 'sealing' effect. Only because I prefer other finishes.
I don't know much about anything. Certainly nothing about pipes. But I've made some random amateur quality wood projects around the house and for some reason when I started like 20 years ago I picked shellac as a finish and I always come back to it as my favorite. Unless you need NASA level protection or something, it's the perfect finish to me. Always fun to hear people that know what they're doing promoting/defending it haha. My father was an avid pipe smoker long ago, before my time. It's neat to connect with a craft I'm sure he appreciated.
Glad you appreciated it. I need to do a follow-up video talking about this further. I don’t actually use shellac on my smooth pipes, but only because there are superior finishes available. Thanks for watching!
I’m a new pipe maker, about a year, my limited experience tells me, the higher grit I sand the better it will look and feel and just needs carnauba wax to finish. I go up to 12-1500 grit. I find shellac difficult to work with, even when very diluted. Would love a tutorial vid showing how to prepare and apply shellac. Thanks for sharing J
London Calling with Simon shellac is definitely tricky to work with if you’ve never had someone show you how. It’s not at all my preferred finish for smooth pipes because it creates so many problems in the last stage. Carnauba alone is okay if you aren’t using stains. But I’d never finish a pipe with stain and only carnauba. Unless you want you and/or your customer to have palms that match the pipe color, that is. 😊
@@londoncallingwithsimon6817 yeah I’d love to hear this too. Appears an oil finish for the top. Old post I know. We both got into pipe making about same time and i watched your first 100 pipes. I’m sure you’ve figured your method out a while back now. :)
Every video you’ve made has left me with knowledge. I can’t think of a better way to say great channel yet again. I was searching this because I came across some vauen pipes with issues I’d not seen before. I realized after some time, being a newbie, it’s some coating and not sure how to refinish it.
Biggest problem with moisture comes (in my experience) from using matches or a lighter fuel that deposits wax or any oil into the cake on the walls of the bowl. The best (hardest) cake I've gotten is with pipes that I only used gas lighters with. You make very good video!
I appreciate the comment. What kind of gas fuel are you talking about? I use butane fueled lighters exclusively (Old Boys, Rollagas, etc) and have never had any noticeable issues.
@@jalanpipes If you don't mind me saying, I would really appreciate a video on different buffing compounds - red tripoli, yellow tripoli, white diamond, carnauba wax, etc. My shaping and hand tool work has been improving, but I still need a lot of work in the finishing department, particularly with applying carnauba evenly. Thanks for all of your work on the videos, I'm learning a lot!
Rock on man! I absolutely detest the breathe theory. Oh no! the briar can't breathe with shellac! If briar actually did breathe, then why would it with carnuba? So glad you did this video man, this subject has drove me mental for 30+ years. Love your work , on the lathe and on Pipes Magazine podcast with Mr. Levine. 🤘
Thanks for this great video! I've noticed there's a lot of confusion about oil finishes too. I hope you will make a video about oil based finishes one day! Have a great day and greetings from Italy!
I use the same lacquer I use on my ukuleles. It's easy to work with and can be polished as bright as you'd like. I put on five thin coats which gives it some depth and then I actually use the pipes or give them away and the lacquer lasts for years. Carnuba needs to be reapplied constantly, hate the stuff.
Is that a nitro lacquer? It can be an excellent pipe finish if you keep it thin. The problem with thicker finishes is delamination from heat and moisture cycles. Carnauba can be great if you like a patina to develop, but if you want it to look shiny and new forever lacquer is the way to go.
I've never understood it either. People are always searching for theories to explain their hard-to-analyze experiences. This one just doesn't cut the mustard though.
Another awesome video recommended by Mike at Briar Blues. I was wondering if you skip the shellac and go straight to the carnauba, will the stain still come off on your hands? Look forward to more vids, hope you're safe and having a great weekend.👍🏻
This is actually the first time I’ve ever heard of a reputable pipe maker using shellac on a pipe. I used to work at the original Tinderbox in California, and not a single one of the good pipes we sold was finished with anything other than carnauba wax.
David Sobel hi David. I visited your shop years ago with a friend of mine, Rick Newcombe. It was the end of an era when you all shut your doors. Now, on to shellac. Part of the reason you don’t hear about it, is this myth that it’s bad. It’s not. I actually don’t use shellac on any smooth pipes. But just about every pipe maker uses some finish before carnauba. It may be shellac, lacquer, oil, or something else. Legacy Italian factories (like Savinelli or castello) may not, however most artisan pipemakers (single maker operations) do. It takes much more time to do so (a smooth pipe takes me 3-5 days for finishing-wax only could be done in a day or less) but the finish is, in my experience and opinion, superior to wax only.
Thanks for the reply J. I worked at the Tinderbox 30yrs ago, long before it closed. A shame to see it gone when I go home to visit. I don’t really have a personal opinion on shellac on pipes for lack of ever actually handling a pipe finished with it that I know of. Although I did just look at a Nording in my collection and seems a bit shinier than usual, so maybe he uses it? I would be interested in seeing how it feels in the hand. I just finished my first pipt a few days ago and may try shellac on another one.
David Sobel I don’t know for certain, but my guess is that the Nording uses a thicker finish, probably a heavier lacquer or varnish. The goal is to have a pipe that feels natural, not plasticky, in the hand. And the shine should matte after prolonged use or handling. We aren’t trying for a forever shine, but want to have a surface that provides some protection, feels natural, and restores easily.
It’s definitely not a thick finish. I’d have noticed if it were something like that. It’s definitely very thin. The pores of the wood are visible in spots even. It just has a shine that seems just a little shinier than other pipes I’ve owned and held. It’s definitely not an obvious coating if there is one.
Here is my two cents on the "breathability" of briar with my existing understanding: first, let's just go ahead and change it to a better word as in wicking or diffusion. Yes briar as with any wood has properties of wicking otherwise the tannins and saps trapped in the pores and between fibers bellow the cut surface would not be able to escape with any type of curing, drying, or boiling. To the point of stain and smoking residue not penetrating beyond ±1mm, both stain solutions and tars(etc.) have both hydrophilic and hydrophobic properties so only a portion will penetrate into any wood. And with stain as enough of the alcohol evaporates off it is only able to penetrate a certain amount. I'm willing to bet that the higher alcohol content in a stain the deeper it will penetrate. As with smoking residues, it more likely that the particles in that solution are big enough as to not allow it to diffuse that deeply into the wood. Does this make any sense or am I totally out to lunch on my thinking?
I have a oil finish on my pipe that is dulling. Should I shellac it or reapply oil? What oil is used on pipes? I have linseed oil but I've heard that may contain some amount of lead.
Really appreciate your info. I've been making pipes for 7 years and finishing has always been the biggest challenge. I've experienced the Like-on-Like issue the hard way. I like Shellac, but have been intrigued with using oil instead. I sand to 1000 grit and finish with a soft buffing of 0000 steel wool. Nice Briars look great with dye and Carnauba wax, but the wax wears off over time with the using of the pipe leaving a dull finish, so that isn't my preferred style either. I will be trying Oil using the French Polish method and finishing with Carnauba. What oil do you recommend and how many coats do you find give you the finish you like?
RMTL * oil is, in my opinion far superior to shellac as a finish for smooth pipes. I use it on all of my smooths, even though it takes days and days to finish and cure properly.
Love it!!! Shellac and Lacquer are often used incorrectly, as being one and the same. They are not. Shellac applied correctly, is good. Lacquer ( for pipes ) is not, IMHO. Briar breathing....? hahahahaha Sure why not. Briar absorbs very minimally. But I agree, it does not "breathe". Here again, the words "breathe" and "absorb" have become used incorrectly, as one and the same. Well done Jeff. Keep this series on myths going! Collectors and buyers need to know and understand these far better than they do!
Thanks so much for the comments, much appreciated. You know, I missed an opportunity to compare and contrast shellac with other finishes. Lacquer would be a good one, especially because not all lacquers are the same. Just about every Danish pipemaker I know does not use shellac, but they do use lacquer. Again the thickness principle comes into play. Thin is good, thick is bad. A micron thick coating of lacquer just smooths the surface. But a thick layer of varnish that you could chip off with a knife is something entirely different. It’s an artificial surface, by comparison. You may as well coat the exterior in carbon fiber! :)
@@jalanpipes agreed. Shallec and Lacquer are different. How they are applied, well .... that is when issues can happen. Lacquer comes in many formulations. I suppose some might be ok for pipes. Then again ..... some probably not. It's much like tobacco chamber coatings. Thickness, recipe, etc all come into play. Some are good and excellent ..... some ..... I'd rather chew and old tire........ LOL
Probably a dumb question from me, a professional woodworker. Oils used as finished ie. linseed oil (probably cut with turpentine), ting oil are a no, no? Specific product, Waterlox original formula? Any experiences?
Check with a specialty woodworking store for a food-safe oil, if that's the direction you'd like to go. I don't use shellac (though as I state in the video, there's nothing wrong with it), but it's a pain to use and doesn't create the best finish.
Hi, very informative video. I have a question; I have seen pipemakers apply oil onto the pipe after they have finished staining the pipe and wonder what it does to it. At first I thought it was to seal the stain and from your video shellac does the same. So what is the difference? I hope to see more videos in the future. I love them.
good question. I don't use shellac on my smooth pipes. I suppose I could have stated that in the video. I use oil finish. Part of the reason is to combat a different problem that shellac creates, i.e. stain smearing. If you use an alcohol based stain and an alcohol based finish, the finish will 'lift' and smear the stain.
So I am going back on watching your vids and I was wondering about if you have a video on finishes to use on pipes and how they are applied? Like this vid is informative about shellac but how do we apply it? With a buffer wheel on a table grinder or what?
there are a number of finishes that can be used, shellac among them. Many pipe makers use different kinds of lacquer. But always, it’s very very thinly applied And then wiped off before it dries. Others use different kinds of oil, preferably danish oil. This is what I use
I have a Peterson that bleeds when smoking it. I've tried wiping it down multiple times to try and prevent it from bleeding. I really like the pipe and I'm not a handy wood maker. What can I do to prevent this from happening? P.S. Love the videos.
Stay At Home Piper That’s hard for me to say since I don’t know what finish they used in the factory. Some finishes don’t play well together, so if you were to put something incompatible on top it might not bind and instead create a layer that is easy to delaminate. I would reach out to the repair department at Smoking Pipes.com since they own Peterson these days
What kind of shellac do you use? I will say if you put shellac on heavy it's bad...when the pipe heats up the shellac chips out...user error. But I am curious to know if you use de-waxed flakes or traditional button lac? A luthier told me he doesn't filter his button shellac because the waxes harden over time making a more durable and lasting finish. I like shellac and will use it again, but you are right a bout the spirit you use...high proof everclear is best from a toxicity standpoint, but not around in all of the states due to laws. Bekhol is the next best thing which is a denatured alcohol with few impurities, it spirits off and drys quickly. Hardware store denatured brands seem to very quite heavily in alcohol/water content to where I've got terrible cuts of shellac with those...Bekhol worked best when Everclear isn't around. The folks at shellac.net have good buttons if you've looking for very good high hardening durable shellacs. De-waxed flakes are easier to work with but the materials are more modified...
No need for shellac when taking time sanding and buffing and coating with carnauba does just fine. Shellac is just a shortcut for less sanding change my mind lol
JAGPilot 01 in theory, yes. But in practice, not so much. Carefully finish sanding to 1000, 2000, or higher still benefits from a finish application of some kind prior to carnauba. Now, I didn’t address it in the video, but I don’t use shellac on my smooth pipes. But many others do. In my opinion, it’s a perfectly fine finish to use for the reasons I stated. People have different opinions on the subject, and that’s cool. But I’d caution you about assuming that a maker is using it as a shortcut.
Nice video thanks. But i done shellac on my pipe and it was great but when i took it out in a hot summer sun to use it for the first time and it became bubbly and shellac was melted in the spot where it was contacted my dashboard. Any idea??!?!
I'm curious to know what you use as a finish on smooth pipes. I made one for myself and applied only carnuba wax, but it doesn't have quite the shine I want and loses its luster quickly with hand oils. I would love to know your opinion on a good option, as I'm afraid of doing something possibly toxic. Thanks!
Jeff, thank you for this helpful video for us non-pipe makers. What would you recommend as the best products to remove shellac from a pipe to get at the natural briar to then polish/wax? Thanks much.
Can you cure a pipe with danish oil ?seen alot of yes and alot of no, I have watco brand danish oil just trying to make sure it wont make the pipe toxic
Danish oil is a good place to start. I'm going to do another video on what I do use. I don't use shellac on smooth pipes. Toxicity isn't really a factor, since you're only applying to the exterior.
@@jalanpipes Yes, I'm sorry my question was so vague. I was thinking about the heated rods that Dunhill used to cure their briars on to dry them faster and wondered if the heat made that much difference? But, no matter how much moisture you remove from the briar you can't change the density of the wood fibers, right? It still does not breath, which was your point.
@@smokebacca correct. They likely had to heat them because they may have been turning wet briar or, if I’m remembering correctly, it was a requirement of the early oil curing that they used. My briar is quite dry so heat isn’t of any use.
@@jalanpipes Thanks for replying. I can think of one pipe I passed on thinking the finish wouldn't allow the briar to breath. Now, I don't have to worry as much. 👍
Another funny thing is - does the wax not block the pores too? Since you apply it and then heat it to soak a bit and polymerize, then you are effectively making the same barrier. It´s like using beeswax on leather.
@@jalanpipes but you can read tons of posts about "I had to remove the varnish / shellac / wax from my pipe, because it didn't breathe, and then it was soooo much better" 😁
@@jalanpipes People in general stick to many false myths in all walks of life, pipes notwithstanding. But i very much enjoyed your video. It´s good to see it from someone who makes living of it to tell oyu hwo it is. But I´m sure that these myths like "shellac kills your pipe" will outlive us al :D
Someone tell this man it's ok to blink! Can we start a go fund me account for a clear and supply to send...i just joke your pipes are beautiful and you have my utmost respect.
sorry I don't restore pipes or offer a reselling service. contact smokingpipes.com. they're the experts and will value and purchase pipes for restoration and resale if they have value.
I bought shellac flakes 18 years ago and have hardly used 1/4 of them. Just go to Rockler or your local specialty woodworking store and they’ll help you out.
Nice video thanks. But i done shellac on my pipe and it was great but when i took it out in a hot summer sun to use it for the first time and it became bubbly and shellac was melted in the spot where it was contacted my dashboard. Any idea??!?!
