"You must not then, my pupils, speak as many do, who say that God ought by all means to have freed the world from evil. To those who speak thus, not a word should be said in answer; but for your sake I will pursue my argument, and therewith explain this. It was beyond God's power to put a stop to evil, and expel it from the universe; for evil is present in the world in such sort that it is manifestly an inseparable part thereof. But the supreme God provided and guarded against evil as far as he reasonably could, by deigning to endow the minds of men with intellect, knowledge and intuition. It is in virtue of these gifts that we stand higher than the beasts; and by these, and these alone, are we enabled to shun the traps and deceptions and corruptions of evil."
Very interesting way of seeing Evil and the physical world. The One is Eternal, that's it's principal and attribute and will always be like that. The material world is a decaying reflection (a temporary illusion) of The One that ultimately is evil, just based of the fact that it's finite and it's potential that isn't actualized! To be in union in the one is to be immortalized, actualized, and One. To not be in union in the one, is to decay, be potential (but not actual), and not One. Although The One is All, Not All is in union with the One.
Very Inspiring: the discussion on Evil seems metaphysical in itself; the Soul of the Spirit which become Being. Plato takes into account that reality is the only source of Philosophical worthiness and not the concerns of seekers. The truth is revealed through spiritual falsification which tends to amount to a Divine Command structure as well as modern day computers; the management of information. The objectivity that all things to be known is already part off the Spirit and the soul. Yet, becoming being changes that.
Well, I guess Science nowadays is describing God and evil pretty well .. in the beginning there was nothing, it was an absolute void, that is, it was pure evil, and suddenly, from that nothingness, an initial "impulse" arises that begins to fill that void and to produce "forms" (we are talking about the Big Ban), that is, that original "impulse" begins to transform evil into good .. but a transformation unlike its origin, by definition, is not perfect, since it takes the original element and transforms it into another, and in that passage the original and the final nature coexist ..
there is no contratory to the absolute good, just a lack of goodness in matter which can dangerously infect the soul or the part of the soul that interacts with matter.
First PRINCIPLE = ABSOLUTE GOODNESS - FORMS - IMAGE - INTELLIGENCE ! Imperfection is unfinished perfect; a low level temperature as opposed to high fever representing perfection ; high and low are aspect of one- temperature; like the white light breaks into many colours; ALL ARE ASPECT OF ONE LIGHT! LIKE UN ACKNOWLEDGE WISDOM: UNSOILED BEAUTY: EDGELESS EDGE ! ……… OUR LIVES ARE ROUNDING OFF THE PI IN THE PHI TO GET TO THE GOLDEN MEASURE!
Ok, this is what Plotinus is saying. Perfect things EXISTS as forms - these are real beings that exist in incorporeal realm. Things that we are familiar with in corporeal world are things that are NOT real, because they come to an existence and pass out of existence. So these corporeal things LACK the good - they are IMPERFECT by not participating in Good fully and therefore they appear to us as evil. Yet, once we break through the veil of ignorance, we will see that everything is GOOD. Even what we consider as evil, has actually a good purpose on a bigger scale.
The reality of duality and perception... A choice of seeing what's in front . Evil is as evil is perceived.. But natural law dictates wrong over right. Hence duality we cannot have love without hate. War without peace etc etc
Well, I guess Science nowadays is describing God and evil pretty well .. in the beginning there was nothing, it was an absolute void, that is, it was pure evil, and suddenly, from that nothingness, an initial "impulse" arises that begins to fill that void and to produce "forms" (we are talking about the Big Ban), that is, that original "impulse" begins to transform evil into good .. but a transformation unlike its origin, by definition, is not perfect, since it takes the original element and transforms it into another, and in that passage the original and the final nature coexist .. In any case, the opposite of love is not hate, it is absolute indifference (the void), and love, the true love (not the one practiced by humans), is that impulse that transforms this indifference. Hate is only a stage of that transformation, an imperfect "form" of that love.. duality exists only in the process of transformation .. but well, that's my perspective, and it is absolutely imperfect (my current "form" is also a stage of that transformation) ..
In striving for perfection, a living thing carries only what they have of themselves. But to stay stagnant shows no urge to seek perfection. One who seeks perfection, is also the perpetual student. Learning new ideas and casting off those ideas no longer feasible, like a chaff. What comes of this chaff? Does it just disappear? If mankind is said to be the image of God and God being a living thing, would not God be attaining perfection every moment, and casting shaff itself? Who can imagine the darkness that an Eternal being would have seen or witness of. Could not this form of shaff be considered what humankind calls evil, since it was cast out, and unworthy of God to hold anymore? Evolution surrounds us. What else is evolution but the perfecting of ones being?
Who strives for perfection? Only a fool. You wouldn't know it (because you've never seen it) even if you got there. And if you did, you'd be an insufferable asshole to the rest of us imperfects. And wtf is a "shaff?" Lastly, evolution does not inherently mean progress; that we are getting smarter, stronger or more perfect. But of course one would expect this sort of puerile nonsense from a severely under-educated female "reverend."
Sounds Hegelian but in plainer English. Not a fan of it but at least you didn’t use obfuscatory technical thought like he did. Hegel’s philosophy is one of the few that inspired mass murderers in both the Communist and Nazi regimes. They both came to the conclusion that since all is one and evil is being constantly cast off they’ll guide the process with their realized minds to eliminate those they deemed most evil killing millions.
@@overheadcasseroles3085 I have seen perfection. In 1984, I died for 3min seconds. And if that is not perfection to you, your opinion matters very little to me
@@JudoMateo I speak the language of the angels. I very much doubt that you would have the slightest perception of that. Right is righted. Wrong equally righted. All are equal according to race, religion, size, sexual orientation. One who passes judgement upon another is more of the psychotic nature. Sound familiar? Look in the mirror if you have the courage to face yourself and your own nature. Sorry it took so long to respond to 'what' you said. Two hospital stays since the start of the year from internal bleeding. I have faced death and shown no fear. Would anyone but one who seeks truth through perfecting oneself on a daily basis be able to find the courage to do that? I am a most imperfect being but my direction is clear to me to attain it. I have faced myself and come back clean. God Bless.
Is the Good, the One of Plotinus absolute, eternal, and infinite? If so, then how could there be holes in his swiss cheese? It would seem that the good emanating out from the One IS finite , thereby allowing potentialities at its limit.
Well, I guess Science nowadays is describing God and evil pretty well .. in the beginning there was nothing, it was an absolute void, that is, it was pure evil, and suddenly, from that nothingness, an initial "impulse" arises that begins to fill that void and to produce "forms" (we are talking about the Big Ban), that is, that original "impulse" begins to transform evil into good .. but a transformation unlike its origin, by definition, is not perfect, since it takes the original element and transforms it into another, and in that passage the original and the final nature coexist ..
Real matter is matter-less -invisible-unnamable and the most pure and perfect or else where does fine tune come from, geometry, math , perfect spheres, spiral systems , a crystal, a Passion flower, …….where do all these beautiful forms come from? LIKE 137 and the hexagons on Saturn , the nautilus , the dodecahedral quasicrystal????
There is no evil for Plotinus, it's just foolishness. We justify terrible things to make the world as we want it. The only path to happiness is realizing the endeavor is stupid. All we encounter is an accumulation of influences. Understanding how bad actions arise is the key to creating a society in which they don't. We blame the symptom instead of the disease, we're sick. Pretending this is healthy yet wanting everything to be better. Only disagreeing about how to do so. The experience of the one is the realization of nous. Its defining quality is a tendency towards union. This is because the one does not contain the space necessary for experience. Experience can only ever be an meaningful approximation of reality. And words are an approximation even of that at their best. Most is far less than that.
You might be startled that experience is called an approximation, yet we know the small amount of light and sound scales available to our senses... we are not designed to be accurate but effective. Without basic distortions normal activity entirely breaks down, reality ceases to be intelligible... yet it is always the actuality.
If I had to reconcile Plotinus’ notion of evil and The One, which emanates pure good. I would use the analogy of the double slit light experiment. Pure light passes through the slits and interferes with itself to create gaps, canceling out part of itself. The gaps in light would be the evil. Boom! Simple.
Well, I guess Science nowadays is describing God and evil pretty well .. in the beginning there was nothing, it was an absolute void, that is, it was pure evil, and suddenly, from that nothingness, an initial "impulse" arises that begins to fill that void and to produce "forms" (we are talking about the Big Ban), that is, that original "impulse" begins to transform evil into good .. but a transformation unlike its origin, by definition, is not perfect, since it takes the original element and transforms it into another, and in that passage the original and the final nature coexist ..
_my friends, It's wonderful to study the ancient philosophers ... truly indeed! but sadly, I am not aware of ANYONE in the philosophy "school" who ever mentions this little book (3 in 1 actually) called _*_A Course In Miracles._*_ It deals with these concepts more fully, completely and perfectly than any ancient philosopher EVER has. Further, the middle book consists of, shall we call them "thought experiments" ... 360 (plus 5) of them. The final book is specifically for teachers (who are simultaneously learners). If you want to understand true philosophy, then really ACIM need/must be your guidepost. It is beyond human. I would also mention the Law of One Ra Material. It is also beyond human. I seriously dare you to read one single chapter of these books. They both arose within 7 years of each other !!!! And they have rather famous Authors._
It only exists as we allow it. Deny it the pleasure of consumption. I did see an evil thing in a loony tunes cartoon. It was in the caricature of the human imagination. If there is idealism then there must be something to counter it.
As far as i understand, the title of this conversation is nonsensical. Plotinus never talked about evil. Evil is a Judeo-Christian concept, or a Zoroastrian concept, in any case it comes out of the levant or middle east. It isn't a Greco-Roman concept. Plotinus never talked about evil as far as I know, neither did Plato. They didn't have the concept.
To expand, they would have concepts like the furious, or terrifying, wrathful, etc. but not evil. They wouldn't even call a character like Medea who kills her own children evil. The entire play is about the motives that brought her to commit that act, though they'd view the act as terrifying. They definitely had wars and capital punishment, they had ethics and laws, but they didn't have the concept of evil.
I do think that because Plotinus's God is not personal, makes evil worse than it would with a personal God. A personal God could have reasons for creating a world in which evil would necessarily follow without desiring it as an end in itself but for a purpose, but mainly because God would have created the world good and not evil, which is the genesis account before the fall. Whereas, with Neoplatonism you have to deal with the fact that the world has always been evil as a natural necessity from the One without any purpose, which if it is taken as it is, no one would complain about the existence of evil, and the very complaining would evince that the neoplatonic system is contradicted by another system that allows for such complaining. And here it does not really matter if it is metaphysical, because of the necessary emergence of moral evil too. The fatal strike is that in a Neoplatonic worldview, there is no hope in this world as human. Life becomes an escape into another reality, even if is higher, it destroys humanity as humanity. The Incarnation cuts through that and God vindicates humanity by uniting the upper and the lower world.
Well, I guess Science nowadays is describing God and evil pretty well .. in the beginning there was nothing, it was an absolute void, that is, it was pure evil, and suddenly, from that nothingness, an initial "impulse" arises that begins to fill that void and to produce "forms" (we are talking about the Big Ban), that is, that original "impulse" started a transformation of evil into good .. but a transformation unlike its origin, by definition, is not perfect, since it takes the original element and transforms it into another, and in that passage the original and the final nature coexist .. There is no upper and the lower world, there is God, there is emptiness, and there is the transformation process initiated by God. Original sin is the emptiness that is part of our transformation process, and the moral evil is to oppose the transformation initiated by God. When that transformation reached a sufficiently advanced stage, that is, not only consciousness was reached, but that consciousness reached a moral maturity, God became incarnate in Christ, to show us how we can defeat that original sin, that process began in turn another transformation, the salvation, within the original transformation, to redeem all consciousnesses (us). The opposite of love is not hate, it is absolute indifference (the void), and love, the true love (not the one practiced by humans), is that impulse that transforms this indifference. Hate is only a stage of that transformation, an imperfect "form" of that love .. duality exists only in the process of transformation .. but well, that's my perspective, and it is absolutely imperfect (my current "form" is also a stage of that transformation) ..
The main problem is that there is no proof of god. They debate about all of these concepts, the perfect shapes and all, but they never had any proof of that. Plato had an henosis which he interpreted his own way, and made a system based on that. Do yourselves a favor and look for the truth by yourselves instead of listening to these philosophical ramblings.
Evil is just not good...you are overthinking it bra. Plotinus is all about the one ...the ontological one as opposed to the epistemological one which you seem to be dwelling on.
what is hatred, and what is it based on? I always feel it is based on the same thing - something of you, or something you wish of, being denied you. For instance, I felt I hated the philosophy teacher being interviewed, and I ask myself, why? because he irritated me, why? because he basically depleted, interfered with, my drive to find this fulfilling, to incorporate it into me. the bastard. people will never be happy, hahahaha.
You have a wrong philosophy teacher. Be your own teacher. Contemplate. Hatred is lack of love. It can be fear of unknown. It is not real... just an illusion which we see as real.
Plotinus' 'The One' stands beyond both. The One as Plotinus says stands even beyond being and non-being hence is ineffable by nature. The concept of The One is almost identical with the concept of Brahman/Atman in Vedanta philosophy as well.
Why does evil exist? Existence is infinite, it is all possibility, hence evil must exist. There is an assumption in this video that the first principle is God, Plotinus did not believe in god, he believed in the one. If everything is one then part of this one is evil. Oneness = wholeness (everything), therefore evil exists.
are you saying he didn't believe in our traditional westernized version of God, he didn't believe in the Christian God, or he was an atheist? or, did you mean he was a pantheist
None of the above. Plotinus was a platonist, and plato and the anceint Greeks did not have a concept of the western God. Plato and Plotinus influenced the Christian concept of One all powerful anthropomorphic God, they predate God, hence they were neither athiests, nor believers in the Christian version of God. To understand this concept of the One requires an understandign of Greek Philosophy from the pre-socratics, to Plato, and Plotinus.
***** from your logic all things must exist... seems a bit of a big assumption to begin with. Just becoz something is infinite does that mean it creates all that is possible ? What is evil ? What is good ? From his point of view... I think that is what we dont understand about Plotinus point of view.
