Pneuma • Tool • Verse Time Signature Changes • Fear Inoculum • 2019 I'm interpreting it as a cycle of 33/8. When it approaches the end of the 1st verse section (or is it the chorus) the chord progression changes and this pattern ends.
Close, but not quite. The riff begins at off-beat, but later the drums come in when the pattern actually starts. So your first 1,2 should be at the end of the pattern. And counting to 6 is impractical - they are triplets. In this case, the pattern goes as it follows: 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2 1, 2, 3 1, 2
I agree the first 1,2 should be at the bottom of the page. But for myself I don't think counting to six in your head when you're playing is that impractical to do here. Especially if you are sight reading a new 6/8 piece in standard music notation for the first time. It keeps you oriented to where you are in the bar. Also you can hear my voice is making the 1,2,3 & 4,5,6 into two triplet groupings with a slight accent on 1 & 4.
@@EriksonM3 Tool has ties to Indian music notation due to DC's studies with Aloke Dutta. In Indian music, they only use 3's and 2's. For instance 5 (Jhaptala in Hindi) is spoken as 3+2 or 2+3. So you say 1,2,1,2,3 or 1,2,3,1,2 This progresses to all Odd time signatures and is easy to say and remember. For instance: 7empest is in 21. Listen to the beginning of the song and just count (123)(12)(123)(12)(123)(12)(123)(123) and you'll hear it and feel it very naturally.
I'm only now starting to get acquainted with these guys and I've been listening to Rush for years. As a non-musician, however, I was having a hell of a time of figuring out the pattern here
Don't worry. I have played instruments all my life, what tool does with poly rhythms, and time signature changes, it fucks me up. Not to mention 14/8 is such an odd time signature, with a 5/8 added in, doesn't help.
I hear it differently too.. but I agree the 1,2 at the beginning of in the measure before, starts at the first 1-6. How I hear it : 123456 123456 12345 123456 12345 12345 The 6,6,5,6,5,5 pattern has a nice paradiddle appearance to it, and to me is easier to remember than a boatload of triplets as others have suggested.
TOOL's time signatures are nothing short of AMAZING ! I cannot wait until they bring concerts back as I recently won tickets to their fear and oculum tour and can't go until this virus " social distancing " is over 😔🙄
This is my number 2. issue with Tool fanboys. Firstly, time signatures are there to only tell you how to count and how many Xth notes are in a bar. That's all. Second, having different times signatures or them changing is not difficult, and doesn't make the song difficult. Dance of Eternity being the exception. Third, Tool don't compose music starting with time signatures, and neither do any other band. They feel a riff, a passage, a melody and try and give it movement. Sometimes to have the right feel and movement, you need 9/8 or 3/4. Eddie van Halen said in an interview that he would drive Alex crazy because Eddie would come up with a riff that sounds cool and Alex would have to figure out how to play it on drums. Third and a half, changing or odd time signatures is not impressive, and it's not meant to be. A song in changing and odd time signatures is not any better or worse than a song in 4/4. To summarize, if you are not a musician or just starting as one, any odd time signature might feel difficult but when you are a group of seasoned pros like Tool, having 5/4+4/4+3/4 is pretty much the same as having a 9/8 song or just 4/4 (not literally of course, but from a "difficulty" perspective).
@@taunokekkonen5733 While I feel the same way with Tool fanboys (most of them don't know what time signatures are but yet they think Tool is the only band that does time signature changes lol). But I disagree with your statement that time signature changes being less impressive or less difficult. It is much easier to play in 4/4, 3/4 or even 6/8 compared to a song in a different time signature because you have a consistent rhythm and you don't need to worry it changing. There is a reason why they are called "uncommon time signatures." And also changing and odd time signatures are more likely to be impressive for musicians if executed well. I've been to many jazz jam sessions and I will say with 100% certainty that jazz musicians prefer to hear a piece that has multiple/odd time signature changes compared to a standard 4/4 jazz piece.
@@taunokekkonen5733 Tool fans are idiots. Just because you play a bunch of garbage and manage to stop at the same time does not make you "musical geniuses." Try playing an orchestral piece from a modern artist, a piece that you've never heard, and the conductor is too busy cuing and showboating instead of keeping a pattern let alone a downbeat.
The transition from the bottom of the list to the top was the part my brain couldn't understand without seeing this and why i could never keep in rhythm with this song
The reason the end gets messed up is that it's a bar of 25/16 (or 25/8) with a grouping of 2, 6, 6, 3, 2, 6. That's the part of the riff where the guitar goes A, Bb, C, Bb, A, Bb, G
I hear it when the drums come in as: 6/8, 6/8, 2/8, 6/8, 6/8, 7/8 or 6/4, 1/4, 6/4, 7/8 For the first two phrases. And then: For the third phrase: 6/8, 6/8, 5/8, 6/8, 5/8. And finally for the fourth phrase: 6/8, 5/8, 6/8, 6/8, 6/8. Before the vocals come in there is a bar of 7/8. The first two 16th notes feel like a pick up when the drums come in.
Doug Helvering got the time signature in one listen. He wasn't 100% correct with the micro tempo of the song, but got the macro tempo of 33/8. That man is a friggin' genius.
don't over complicate it. danny doesn't count any of this. he's doing a 6/8 6/8 5/8 feel with a 3/8 shift (making an 8/8). the triplet flips around. don't confuse the first guitar note as the beginning of the bar. it's the end of the previous 5/8 bar. always remember counting 1 & a, 1 & a 2 & a, etc once you play it for a while all sense of time signatures go out the window and you start to understand the feel of the song, and it's basically one really long bar of 1523/8
Well said ,by the time you think you counted or there is lag even in even whispering the eighth notes.... even at 123 , yes that method is thought at universities and it’s right but the type of groove in relation to guitar riff that it is can make you loose the ‘one every cycle etc you will be slightly behind or in front ...yes Danny would sound over mechanical if he was at leased not seeing in his head the groove but eventually after breaking it down not having to count it as walking stick ...
Thank you. Counting it with 8th notes makes it a lot more sense than some of the notation I've seen that uses quarters and eighths together. Super easy once you understand the pattern.
Compound time signatures are all about the pulse. In this case a bichronal pulse that mixes groups of 2's and 3's. This counting equates to: 6/8 (grouped 3,3), 8/8 (3,3,2), 6/8 (3,3), 8/8 (3,3,2), 5/8 (3,2). The phrasing does lend itself to two bars of 14/8 (3,3,3,3,2) 5/8 (3/2) but that more of a personal preference. It is not 7/4. 7/4 is a simple time signature i.e. a duple metre which by definition must be grouped 2,2,2,2,2,2,2 which it evidently isn't.
There are many ways to count this, but this makes it much easier to understand. Using this as a guide you can break up the time counts to whatever is comfortable for your ear, but the info is there, and thank you!
Would you ever consider giving Take the Veil Cerpin Taxt by The Mars Volta mid section a shot (@3:40), for the life of me I could never count that riff
Idk if this helps or if it is even correct but I think I would write it as 1 trip let 2 trip let 3 trip let 4 trip let 5 & 1 trip let 2 trip let 3 trip let 4 trip let 5 & 6 trip let 7 & (back to top) Regular 4/4 8th notes would look like 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & Regular 3/4 triplet notes would look like 1 trip let 2 ^ ^ 3 ^ ^ 4 ^ ^
I believe its a 7/8 almost the whole time. Theres different ways to count that of course. Like the base line naturally sounds like 1+a 2+a 3+a 4+a 5 (repeat) but in reality it should be counted 1e+a 2e+a 3e+a 4e (repeat). There are a few changes here and there (1 for sure that goes to 4/4) but most of it is in 7.
You are right, I personally find it hard to count in those time signatures for this song though (while playing the drums). There is a definitive triplet type of feel so counting in this 12/8 type of groove and adding a few extra counts here and there seems to work better for me. I have appreciated all of the different interpretations of this song so far.
Do you think it makes sense to split (over 8) 6, 6, 2, 6, 6, 7? i.e. a 6 measure phrase with 7 as the final time? I know the downbeats are sporadic, but the numbers 6 and 7 are all over Fear Inoculum thematically, so from that standpoint it makes sense. What do you think?
Thanks for your input! That's another valid interpretation. I chose splitting the 7 beats you are referring to because the instruments and the vocal during the verse repeatedly create a strong "1" downbeat to warrant splitting the 7 up into the 1,2 • 1,2,3 • 1,2. Also, the first 1,2 feels like a pick-up into the first 6. Another consideration, I split the 33 beats into a pattern that would allow me to count it while playing so I could learn it on bass. That's cool that they thematically play with the idea of 6 and 7 over the whole album. Brahms did that in Symphony No.3 except he did it with 2 and 3.
@@EriksonM3 yeah I feel that. The downbeat is super heavy there so it's hard not to separate, and it doesn't start cleanly with the 6/8 bar either. But often when I count to 7, especially with Tool, I never really get past 3 anyway (e.g. the swung 7 time from Justin a little over halfway through the title track is 1-2-1-2-1-2-3). I will have to try to tap the whole thing out again later to see where it falls.
