People keep commenting that the m235i is the true value winner because it's only a second slower. Beyond lap times Jethro noted that the Cayman was the more fun car to drive regardless of laptimes. The Cayman is a sports car at heart that is liveable for daily driving, the m235 is daily driver at heart that can be used for sporty driving
But which is more useful for an every day driver, which is essentially what this car is? I'd rather have a beefed up road car, than a tolerable track car, as a daily.
+reczy the Cayman is not a track car. Its still built for the road. However it's a true sports car that is very practical. Easily a daily driver. I'm taking the more fun car every time. If you take pleasure in the way a car drives, it's an easy choice.
On last corner with the Porsche if you check the time it is SLOWER than BMW... How it came out that Porsche was quicker Before you finish the lap clock is on 1.08.12 And you say that it made and you say that it made seven point something...
multifunction steering wheel is an option :) but sadly no back seats. Still I've done the hot hatch thing, had a golf R, and looking back, I should have bought a Porsche a long time ago, best car ive ever had.
my Boxster was cheaper to service than my old 3 series BMW. BMW have crazy dealer servicing costs. My friend has an m135i and he has spent over double what I have on servicing and maintenance over the last year.
Hmmm, The Cayman is £40k basic without any options. The M235i is £34k with a good standard spec and has the advantage of 4 seats and is the more comfortable daily driver. No doubt the Cayman is more fun to drive, but specced the same as the standard M235i (with Bluetooth/Rear PDC/Xenons/Multi Function Steering Wheel etc etc.,) it's more like £45k. They aren't really comparable unless you count the fact they are both coupes.......
If you want a fun car to skid around then the M235i is the car for you but if you want a fun car to drive but is a dedicated sports car that is all about sports driving then the Cayman is the car for you.
Great video as always Evo, thank you. It would be interesting to see what the optional LSD does to the M235i in terms of on road and on track. I love the Cayman's, but would be very tempted to change to an M235i as a daily driver.
Not price wise though, a the M235i is alot cheaper than the S, although the standard Cayman isn't cheap either... Which makes the M235i a bit of a bargain
Sounds like it is a fun AND comfortable car to drive :) Fun is the most important part for me and I am considering buying a pre 2012 Cayman but was afraid it might be to boring to drive. But that do not seem to be the case after watching a lot of videos with it.
BMW are totally different to Porsche though, they're not designed to be like Porches at all. Two great brands but can't be compared (Same story with Mercedes and Audi)
Love both cars to death. Both offer an awesome engine choice, rear wheel drive, and a true manual gearbox. Purity at its finest. If I had to choose between the two, It'd be the hardest decision of my life. Truly drivers cars right here people, you can keep your Veyrons and GTRs. I'll take both of 'em !
swallowed every line every youtuber ever told you. I'll take Schumacher's 2004 Formula 1 Ferrari and rape you all and your "proper" manual gearbox's *in the ass.* lol
You should have brought the Cayman S which has similar horse power, and it would have spanked the BMW even more. For those of you who say you would take the BMW over the Porsche, obviously you have never driven a Porsche. They feel like no other car on the road. There is no substitute. Priceless
a perfect example of power isn't everything as most modern cars are focussed on power and torque outputs. once you have owned a mid or rear engine car, there is no going back!
First of all, this is a relatively fair comparison in terms of price. The regular cayman (not much in terms of options) and the 235i. Next the power to weight comparison is interesting too, 235i with more power but more weight, cayman with (a lot) less power and around 100kg less. Granted the cayman started life as a mid engined sports car and nothing else, and the BMW was a sedan with performance slant. Some thought went into this comparo, good job EVO. Think the M2 would be a match for the Cayman S or GTS, that would be interesting too.
Great video, love seeing Jethro's videos. By the way, you should do an old versus new with your 996 ... And tell us how the suspension upgrade is working! I have always considered my 996 40th anniversary like a small GT3, not quite there but seriously more sporty than the standard 996 carrera (2) in particularity thanks to it's suspensions, throttle mapping and a bit thanks to the mild engine power upgrade. By the way, I live in London and do track days so maybe one day we will meet up round a corner... One day I randomly met one of your competitors at Bruntingthorpe on a week day.
I love the M235i, I actually own a M135i. The package is very impressive, a very very nice combination of grunt, precision and practicality on the road. But there is no question about it that the Cayman is the better sports car, arguable one of the most balanced sports cars in the world. If you need 4 doors and rear seats the M135i´s only competition is the Golf R, but the lack of usable rear seats in the M235i raises the question if it wouldn´t be more straightforward to buy the Porsche in the first place.
I drove an M235i and a new Boxster S back to back. I was shocked to find the BMW to be the more enjoyable road car. Massive amount of torque with immediate power delivery. Yes it felt heavier then the Porsche but it was a good feeling. Considering the price difference and practicality, the BMW is the winner in my eyes. The boxster was disappointing to me because you had to wind the engine up high to feel the power. I realized today that I prefer a high torque engine. The BMW inline 6 is a sweet engine. The M235i is one special car. For daily driving I can honestly say the BMW wins. Could the Boxster be that different from a Cayman? Are Porsches overrated on the web? You got to drive these cars and feel for your self which ones for you!
New Boxster S with PDK is 0-60 in 4.2, manual about 4.5. My old 2005 3.2 Boxster S is tuned and quite fast, 4.5-4.6. I think you were in the 2.7 base Boxster which is about 5.5 with manual?
Awright I get it, best inline 6 vs pretty darn good flat 6 which needs tuning. Can you get much more hp out of the BMW with RCU tuning, lightweight flywheel, under drive pulley and sport cat headers and secondary cat delete?
The Cayman is an iconic coupe and in a league of its own. The M235i is just a 3 series with two doors with jacked up power. Sorry, but the Cayman is superior in handling, chassis/suspension set up, PDK, and its a mid-engine. Yes, its more expensive but you can just stick with the base Cayman (which is fast enough for 95% of population). Option the car as I did with Metallic color, full leather interior, Premium Pkg, and PDK transmission (you don't need anything else) and the car is in the high $60's K range, for what your getting its a bargain. The 2 series is just a 2 series, no one will notice it. The Cayman on the other hand will always be there. 2 Series, C-Coupe, TT, all are great but they are not in the same league as the Cayman, Sorry but that is the truth.
+Nawfel AlQuraini - premium package in Cayman? Quality of interior is better in 2 series, so is 8 speed ZF box. This video is a bit unfair. 235i with limited slipp diff, ceramic brakes and 19" tyres will be faster than Cayman. And by buying a Cayman/Boxster you always look like someone who wanted 911, but couldn't afford it ;)
to finish a second off a focused mid engined sports car is a brilliant achievement for a 4 seat fairly practical car, considering most buyers don't go near a track getting the bmw over the Porsche is a no brainer.
The sad thing, BMW has not only forgotten how to build great M cars, they have also forgotten how to build great engines. They have to turbocharge them today, and have to synthesize the sound. Did the naturally aspirated BMW V12 in the McLaren F1 have a lack of power or sound?
They made up the times, as the time shown on the in car camera is different from the result at the finishing line. Interestingly, it suggested that the BMW is actually faster! 3:51 and 7:09.
I noticed that too. When the timer hit 1:08 for both cars, the BMW was closer to the pylons than the Porsche. Not sure where they came up with these times.
Dragan Celan Think they must've done another lap in the cars without all the talking & sliding you see in the video despite showing a lap timer during the shown lap. EVO is probably the most trustworthy sites when it comes to cars.
And this is only the Base Cayman with 2.7l engine. Imagine how the Cayman GTS would fare :) BMW is totaly losing it's "Mojo", BMW used to make cars that weren't as fast as porsches, but they would be right there for driver involvment and fun, not on this decade...
Considering they were comparing a practical four seater against a mid engine sports car that costs more, I'm not concerned. We'll revisit this when the M2 comes out.
PeterPanarchy Let's see again "BMW used to make cars that weren't AS FAST AS PORSCHES,but they would be right there for DRIVER INVOLVMENT AND FUN" You missed the point.Even a E9X 320i was a fun car,a machine to enjoy,but the new ones with their electronic steering,twin turbos all over the place and auto transmisions are killing that.
damefaso I don't think it's the new technology that is making BMW less fun. Porsche is using electric steering, Mercedes is using turbos in their AMGs, and supercars all over use DCT automatics, yet they all have more character than the new wave of M cars. BMW is just not getting the hang of it, it seems.
ewt415 It's a mix of everything... BMW's used to have good steering feel, good engine note, and overall good driving experience even when you didn't buy an ///M model. Now not only the regular BMW's have all the feel muted, but even the ///M models seem to be less connected with the driver... They are too cynical. too efficient in what they do, that they forgot about the fun
PeterPanarchy practical if you're 3 feet tall and can squeeze into the back seat maybe... and the porsche has 15 cubic feet of trunk spaced compared to the bimmer's 13.8
I love how if you watch the video carefully, you can see the timer on screen hit 1:08 for the Cayman (around the 7:10 mark in the video), yet they say it did the lap in 1:07.7. Hmm...
+santrade10 If you look at it purely from a value perspective, it's hard to ignore the M135i, especially when you can get a 3-4 year old one with reasonable miles for about half the price of a new 235i.
0:47 do you really think you can really get some honest results out of the M235i with those tires on????? I don't think so. PS: I really like Jethro, he has some crazy driving skills
I have to say this On last corner with the Porsche if you check the time it is SLOWER than BMW... How it came out that Porsche was quicker Before you finish the lap clock is on 1.08.12 And you say that it made and you say that it made seven point something... What a fake comparison and also unfair BTW I drive Opel and I am not a fanboy....
The problem with the M235i is that BMW was lazy with it. Instead of trying to make a cheap, small coupe with M performance they took a regular 2 series, duct taped some performance addons onto it and said, "That looks good, ja!". It's too heavy and was only given enough performance to make it great for the streets, but not the track. They didn't even bother to give it a proper M name. It's not a bad car, it just doesn't measure up to it's potential. Shame, really. For as (relatively) cheap as it is, it could make out to be the perfect track car for someone who can't afford an M4. It was already a small car, but just too fat. If it shed some pounds and the chassis and parts were made for more sports performance, we'd have an amazing fast car, that is manual, has a superb engine, amazing handling AND is under $50 grand. Let's hope the upcoming M2 doesn't fall victim to the same problems as above.
They possibly held back cause they are prepping the M2 for either next year or 2016. I had a M235i for the easter weekend, very powerful machine on the streets and very enjoyable to drive
I also think the naming is a mistake. It's going on for years now you can get M-bumpers and such on your 318d, and adding cars naming M-something, but not being a real M, feals a bit like : hey, this is not an M, but you can get a little taste already. So, I understand you can't get a 235i, only an M235i ? The 235i would more suite what it is, I think.
considering its the only v6 2 series and it still keeps up to the M3 CSL on stock non M parts i think its a bargain and an acheivement. btw the M2 is only going to have 380 hp and you can easily tune the M235i and add proper parts to make it better and faster than a stock M2
It would be nice for Porsche to revisit the 924/944 models of the 80s & 90s, adding a compact, front engine, RWD platform to their range again. As great as the 911 and Boxter/Cayman models are today, I always had a soft spot for the old 944 Turbo xD
To people saying this is a stupid comparison, the cars are both RWD 2dr 2 passenger cars so they serve nearly the same purpose. Also the base Cayman is not as far from the M235i in price as you would think only about $10k here in the states.
You can't turn the DSC Off and keep the car in Sport+. When turning the DSC Off, it goes back to 'Comfort' (throttle response, gearing if automatic tranmission equipped and damper settings if dynamic dampers equipped) except for the steering, which stays in Sport ("heavy") mode. Anyway, not that it really matters but the throttle response is way sharper in Sport(+) and the gear changes are quicker. Sport+ has DTC enabled, dynamic traction control, allowing it to step out a tiny bit and then some harsh throttle cut-off when loss of grip is significant.
I beg to differ... Engineers work really hard to make sure the automatic transmissions are better. I am starting to dislike individuals who still 'have so much respect' for manual transmissions on performance cars. I dislike you!! You want a manual, get a cheap car. Engineers study really hard to give us exceptionally good auto-transmission boxes.
When you say "automatic", what you mean is "semi-automatic". The good part of this evolution, is that automatic gearboxes finally seem to be abandoned. No wonder, they were technically inferior to anything else. But, these days, the semi-automatics are technically ahead of manuals, no wonder. BUT ... manual drivers know when you need to shift, and ppl that drive semi-autos, in auto mode, still don't. They just know "their" automatic gearbox suddenly shifts faster ! And, has got more gears (not that they listen to revs), but hey.
I wonder how much of that BMW noise is artificial. Throughout the video I could hear good engine noise from within the cabin, but heard nothing when it zipped by the camera. It was not the case with the Porsche.
I really like both cars, would love to have a BMW M235i but between those two contenders the Cayman is simply more special and desirable, but I guess so is the price tag.
A lot of complain about pointless comparison... well I guess this is still a more mature match than those red light straight line race between civic SI and Neon SRT4 we often see on youtube :)
@TheLoneWolf989 Evo is about the thrill of driving. Many times they compare different types of cars against each other. If I have to compare these two cars (to see which suits me), I would have to buy them both and then make a decision. This is not pointless to everyone.
I'm surprised that a 2.7L Cayman can keep up with a 3.0L Turbo Charged 235i. I'm a Cayman S owner, and I always thought my buddy's 235M was faster. Who knew?! Interesting. I guess its more at home on the track, but yea for sure on a freeway straightline race the 235M would kill it. On a totally different note, I'd love to get my hands on a Cayman GT4. Anyone else here like that car?
I would be interested to see the difference in handling with the LSD installed. Some people say it's balanced, drift happy and amazing fun to drive - others not. I'm not sure what to believe.
imagine if this had been the power comparable Cayman S. It would have absolutely destroyed the BMW. I'm a huge fan of the M135/140/235/240 range and have driven them many times, but boxsters/caymans are just another level of involvement, precision and placement. In the end, I was happier to have a 2005 Boxster S rather than a much newer M135i for the same cash.
A totally useless comparison of a 4 seat cruiser with sporting abilities and a 2 seat sports car built for track days. For a second slower i'll take the M235i any day. Wow
***** OMG! People didn’t buy the 135i?! That's a bummer. What did BMW do with all those cars they built, sell them to Martians? If I was a Martian, I would certainly buy a shitty 135i over a Honda Accord, that’s for sure. Anyway, I’m not sure the dude is bias. I think he just wants a back seat.
***** I agree the Porsche handles and sounds well. Most cars buyers rarely test the handling of their cars. So a person who wants a good handling car for everyday use is a dumbass, amazing. What about those persons who have a family and can afford only one car? By your logic you are biased for choosing the Porsche. At the end of the day it's my money and my choice and if I choose the M235i it doesn't make me a dumbass and you intelligent for choosing the Porsche.
***** I'm not hating on the car, in fact if I had the money it would be a choice between Cayman S and Exige S as a weekend toy. I agree it's a useless comparison as I said at the beginning. Everyone doesn't want the best handling car and the problem is your ego won't let you accept that others have different tastes and desires that are dissimilar to yours.
Just because it's faster round the track it doesn't make it the better car. The BMW can sit 4 people and has a good size boot and yet is only a second slower round a track against a full sports car. Realistically how many of the people watching this video even drive on tracks, maybe 0.1%?
Porsche could have sent S model to race the BMW for closer TQ but Porsche have this tendency to send less powered car to race higher power cars and generally wins. Porsche know how to put together sports cars and not disappoint the fans.
One thing I'll add for anyone reading now: the M235i absolutely needs camber plates in front. The stock camber is just terrible and camber plate makes a LOAD of difference. Brakes need pads and fluid. It gets much, much much better with these 2 upgrades.
bighands69 Price has everything to do with it. The Porsche was loaded. On top of the $10K price difference add PASM suspension - $2K, Chronos package (motorsport-derived gearshift strategy, improved throttle response), can't tell visually, but most likely had Torque vectoring ($1.5K), and Sport Chassis ($1.4K), PDK transmission is $3.6K, and oh yeah - those 20" wheels are $5K (Beamer had 18's). I'm a huge fan of both cars - but this contest was clearly stacked in the Cayman's favour. The Cayman at the very least should have been a manual for this to be a more even competition, and the Beamer should have had the limited slip.
+darkpill chronos package doesn't really add anything to the car if it doesn't have PDK. Won't affect the lap times here. Larger rims aren't going to improve the caymans lap time either and I wouldn't assume this car had PTV. He doesn't mention that it does. Fact is that the car was faster because of better brakes, lighter weight, and better chassis. Even in the most basic form, the Cayman will still beat this m235i on a track as it is specced. Cayman is more expensive but that's what you're paying for.
This guy seems to be full of smug satisfaction that he can talk and drive at the same time. So much so that he is just talking without saying anything just to show us how he can drive while talking. Scrappy? Ok.
I don't see the point of comparing these two. One's a four seat coupe with a big boot and the other is a full fledged sports car with a big price tag. Where's the similarity?
Nice comparaison, but not really a surprise here. The Cayman is more a sportcar than the M235i, the M235i is not a proper M. I'm not saying that the M will beat the GTS or even the S, but for me they're not really in the same category. Btw i still prefer the M235i over the Cayman: it's cheaper, and more easy to use everyday. It's a bit of a "normal" car. The Porsche is... a Porsche !
not exact an apples to apples comparison here. cayman vs m2, whenever that comes out. or perhaps m235i vs. cla45 amg. love the cayman and the m235i though, they keep enticing me to make a poor financial decision =)
Its like law vs chaos, bimmer representing pure muscle, brawn and speed by sheer engine force and the cayman relying a lot on techniques and engine position to make it a more lightweight contender, steering around better in curves.
The Bimmer's rear brakes look bigger than the cayman's fronts! How in the world does the porsche sustain braking performance?!? Anyone who knows anything about these cars knows that the standard cayman brakes (NOT PCCB) use the same Pagid pads the m235 does. I find this confusing. Maybe just a placebo?
that m235i could really use wider tires, that would help the over and understeer alot. as much as i love bmw i think i would take the cayman, its not an easy choice but the cayman is more balanced and more of a true sports car then the bmw is. sounds incredible too. both are amazing cars however
