Porsche Vs Corvette ends in MASSIVE crash

Money Lap with Parker Kligerman & Landon Cassill

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Welcome back to "NASCAR Drivers React", a series where NASCAR Drivers Parker Kligerman and Landon Cassill react to some of motorsports wildest moments! This week we are checking out a classic finish in the sports cars world. From the American Le Mans Series 2009 Season Finale from Laguna Seca!
We hope you enjoy! We welcome all comments and criticism to make the series better, and please give us suggestions of races to react to! Whether it is NASCAR, Indycar, Sportscar Racing, Formula Racing, Rallycross, or anything else you would like to see!
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29 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 310

@janddmaurer7334 5 месяцев назад

Am I the only person who misses the SPEED channel?

@moneylap 5 месяцев назад

same!

@TheLockbeard 5 месяцев назад

I do miss SPEED as well

@crypto091 5 месяцев назад

Speed was the epitome of a racing dedicated channel that always had some form of motorsports programming on. Even if it was showcasing lesser viewed series like Lucas oil On The Edge, it was the best racing channel we ever had.

@edwardroberts5660 5 месяцев назад

no I miss it dearly

@purgatorysrath4455 5 месяцев назад

Was my go to show. Now I'm empty inside :)

@RuToClose 5 месяцев назад

I was so invested in the ALMS. Went to Petit for years. I am and was a huge Patrick Long and Jorg Bergmeister fan. They had a race ruined by a Ferrari at Sebring, so NO way they weren't keeping their elbows out for this win. What an ending to a season.

@leeroysam4518 5 месяцев назад

Chevy had it coming

@timparry5277 5 месяцев назад

Verstappen learned if you’re going to try and take someone out, make sure you take them all the way out.

@GodFootDaddyG 5 месяцев назад

Apart from the lingo, I never really noticed the difference in Indy/sports car spotters until yall made that comment.

@barrackb0325 4 месяца назад

I have the same exact thing happen to me in Forza Motorsport in the GT Series. Pisses me off like no other.

@davidgalea6113 4 месяца назад

Yeah not even remotely the same...

@cavalc 5 месяцев назад

This guy is an assassin!

@bobfeber1099 4 месяца назад

The fact that the Corvette hit him on purpose cause let's be serious when you're a race car driver you know d*** well when you should be breaking to not run into the car in front of you even when there's lots of money on the line so the fact that the Porsche driver said enough is enough and you're gonna try and spin me out in a corner and ran him into the wall I think he was nice about it the fact that the Corvette decided to spin out and crash into the opposite wall well that's just an unfortunate event

@pierio33 4 месяца назад

Jorge B =☠️

@NBC_NCO 5 месяцев назад

Football (American) is definitely overrated when you see racing action like this.

@phasA100 5 месяцев назад

You should have the final verdict ready. Very bad preparation on youre part…

@BaldVulture87 5 месяцев назад

Nobody got DQ LOL the crappy porsche driver def went for the pit maneuver. What a despicable and horrible driver, driving a terrible German car.

@Klentz007 4 месяца назад

Jan magnussen said in a Danish interview. "I told my family, if I'm killed in this sport, and no matter how. I want you to know that I died with a smile on my face as a happy man. Don't feel sorry for me".

@RuToClose 5 месяцев назад

Porsche double stinted the tires, corvette had fresher tires. They were faster, but couldn't get around that fat ass of the 911 without what you see.

@PonzaYT 5 месяцев назад

Bergmeister was first to do the move you see on r/simracingstewards all the time. Smh. Big Corvette fan here, this finish made me super conflicted though. Glad Jan was still racing after that, massive hit into the wall. I still wish NASCAR could race here, it would be insane.

@focussport 5 месяцев назад

Vette saw nothing but res mist for the last few laps... and his driving showed that.

@moonbass2 5 месяцев назад

I run the PA and corner worker land line at Laguna Seca. My office looks right down on the start finish line. I took some video of the finish and fireworks, somehow unaware of the the one more lap for the Porsche and Corvette. I actually had the video camera packed away before I realized the last lap dog fight! What a scene when Magnussen crashed. Like a plane crash. He actually crossed the finish line while knocked out from the impact.

@moneylap 5 месяцев назад

Wow 😳

@MishimaBloodl1n3 4 месяца назад

Why would the Porsche driver have to drive another lap because of the Chevy acting like a hillbilly?

@christopherhebert9069 5 месяцев назад

You can’t smash a guy into a wall on purpose and not get disqualified! Absolutely hogwash he should be suspended for dangerous behavior like that

@dennistowerofpower5808 5 месяцев назад

If you watch closely. And slow the footage down… you can see the Porsche back off. And the corvette moved back to the right just a little too soon and he clipped the left front of the Porsche. The corvette … gave him self his own pit maneuver!!$🙄

@MrFiddy619 4 месяца назад

The corvette was driving like an ashole the whole race, serves him right.

@Broody58 4 месяца назад

Not what I saw. That porsche just pressed that corvette against the wall on purpose. He did Not turn his wheel to the right at all. He turned left hard to keep the corvette from passing. He needs to be disqualified, fined, & kept from racing. This is not a demolish derby. And..its not the first time I've seen this from porsche teams. They get away with it all the time. They cry if they loose. Oh the faster car has to add 100 lbs..& then they somehow get thier way. To me all they are, is dangerous traffic. They should stick with club racing if they can't take the heat. Spoiled little crybabies.

@fj06carnone 4 месяца назад

@@dennistowerofpower5808 It's hilarious how I can tell your political affiliation just by this insanely stupid take.

@SourBogBubble 4 месяца назад

@@dennistowerofpower5808that's not how physics work

@empii911 5 месяцев назад

The Vette was faster because the Porsche was on an older and reused set of tyres, while the Vette got new ones for the final stint. Doesn’t give you the right to shoot into other cars all race long though, there were multiple contacts from the drivers of the Vette in that race, which in the end didn’t help their protest of unfair driving having escorted other cars off the track before. Still crazy how good the racing was in 2006/2007/2008 and how dull it is now in GT3

@nitrozack3062 5 месяцев назад

Vette was 10 x as fast lol 😂

@jdmitchell3077 5 месяцев назад

I was there, sitting right in front of the crash. I've attended many races in my life. But this finish, I'll never forget.

@monkeyRL 4 месяца назад

Point blank, kids! Take a damn side, here. The Vette was faster and had overtaken once already. Yes, it wasn't "legal" but being blocked the way he was there wasn't much choice. So, the last second check into the wall was well and fucked up! IMHO, I know. But that wasn't racing. That was a cheap shot that could have gotten a driver seriously hurt. That's some dirty ass driving and a low class move to put on a dude that's just faster than you. Shameful.

@HomeWithDrew 4 месяца назад

Porsche driver should be banned from the next race. Yes the Vette touched the porsches bumper at last corner, which from previous laps shows vetted is faster but racings racing. Porsche ram vetted all the way off line into the wall, that's not racing, amd then backed off just as vetted passed so did the same move a police car does to take out a criminal driver. Absolutely no excuse fro. The porsche driver for what dangerous maneuvers they did. That's not racing, that's bullying and could have killed the vetted driver. Discussing behaviour from the porsche driver

@gianni4925 5 месяцев назад

This makes me wish that Laguna Seca could allow night racing again. Either IMSA only for that or install a lighting system.

@warhog258 5 месяцев назад

It's not that. It's the fact that the already bitchy highway 68 coalition will complain about noise pollution in the after hours.

@chungusamongus519 5 месяцев назад

The highway 68 coalition is a single prick that lives nearby

@mkay1957 4 месяца назад

Some of the whiny, bitchy neighbors are pushing hard to get the track shut down permanently.

@warhog258 4 месяца назад

@@GT1Vette I mean they are just going to take sound tests again per usual and find nothing new like last time. I honestly am getting tired of the Highway 68 coalition because all they do is bitch and moan about anything that will improve the local economy here. They created drama when the airport wanted to expand the runway for safety because of noise, and already tried this tactic on the track half a dozen times before. Moreover the the main complainant of the coalition moved closer to the track after founding the coalition for whatever reason.

@warhog258 4 месяца назад

@@GT1Vette It really can't go any lower than it is already. 93 DB is lowest of any track on this planet and already flags sound for a majority of modern sports cars. It also does not help the Coalitions case, that the airport flies directly along highway 68 over the track as well and below the towards the highway is our local gun range.

@dougpence3862 5 месяцев назад

In cycling, the Porsche would be D-Q'd because in the final stretch to the line, the Porsche in the front did not maintain a straight line once having committed to the sprint to the finish. Shows what a sh*t sport car racing is...that and the bull-sh*t "B-O-P".

@dezpotizmOFheaven 4 месяца назад

Racing license should be taken away from that Porsche driver. Yes, the Corvette hit the back of the Porsche, which should be a time penalty. But forcing another car into a wall is a behavior that does not belong in racing at all.

@LuciTulcea 4 месяца назад

I understand the fact that the Porsche driver just couldn't let victory slip on the very last stretch but he should have got a penalty or something for how he maneuvered.

@Fahmbo 4 месяца назад

Looked like the porsche braked mid turn which caused the corvette to bump

@ThisManTriggeredMe 4 месяца назад

Absolutely. The vette was faster, the Porsche knew it and blocked him the entire race. Brake checks, irregular lines through turns etc. And when the vet finally got by, there was 5 car lengths between them in a half a lap.

@danielverteramo3083 5 месяцев назад

just wondering what happened after this, but if a car was to pull along side you, are able to still block causing a crash or? the corvette driver could've taken the guy out at any corner if apparently its legal to just dump someone like that. driver that went into the wall like that is lucky to get out of the car.

@byates59 5 месяцев назад

I watched this race live and I will never forget that wreck at the end!

@azslotracer 4 месяца назад

Damn Porsche driver!

@moestacolli1886 5 месяцев назад

Porsche is in the way C6 corvette dominates 911s / gt3 at every level of racing

@george-a.m.75 4 месяца назад

But these two Clowns talking like 12 year olds, ruined the whole Scene...

@AlucarDr.7 4 месяца назад

Denn fahrer mit dem Porsche sollte die Lizenz abgezogen werden, das hat nichts mit Motorsport zu tun. Wer so vorsätzlich fährt, der gehört in die Klappsmühle

@ralphsmallblock4367 5 месяцев назад

The Bully got phacked up🤘

@lukesworkout2232 5 месяцев назад

The Porsche was the one racing dirt, I don't understand how this is hard see.

@ralphsmallblock4367 5 месяцев назад

@@lukesworkout2232 if you keep poking the bear it’s going to bite. The corvette was aggressive and if he was faster he would have passed him no excuses.

@ralphsmallblock4367 5 месяцев назад

@@lukesworkout2232it’s a lot harder to stay ahead than playing grab ass

@BaldVulture87 4 месяца назад

@@ralphsmallblock4367 but he did pass him... the porsche did a pit maneuver put ur glasses on and look again. nobody cares about what happened in previous corners the porsche was slow as are all porsches on the streight and the vette was passing him so he pitted him...

@ralphsmallblock4367 4 месяца назад

@@BaldVulture87on the contrary the vette got phacked up especially close to the end. American cars lack the girth. Pushing and shoving at speed. That’s why the cheapest 911 is and the most expensive corvette are similar priced similar.

@machoman5356 4 месяца назад

This is a common psychosis for anyone that drives a Porsche.

@moneylap 5 месяцев назад

Thanks so much all for watching this video! If you like this, be sure to check out our all motorsport podcast with Parker and Landon, as well as our Coolest Stuff In Motorsports newsletter - that delivers the best stuff in motorsports directly to your inbox! Let us know what race you want us to react to next!

@toddfenley9179 4 месяца назад

The driver and the Porsche should have been sanctioned for that.A bump and run is one thing.A pit maneuver is another

@leonardotrindadeperformance 4 месяца назад

That Guy in the Porsche should banned forever!

@buckdashe2571 5 месяцев назад

Watch that final clip in slow motion…you can see Magnussen getting squeezed to a point but then he tries to take the Vette back toward the center of the track too soon and catches the front of the Porsche. Bergmiester put on the squeeze but did not turn into the Vette once it was almost past him…you can see him holding a line and then the front of the Porsche getting nicked as the Vette moved too soon and took himself out. Probably the same observation officials made in making their decision.

@warhog258 4 месяца назад

I've already tried explaining this to others, but they either don't want to listen or just don't know how to put the video on slowmo. Even in full speed you can see what unfolds.

@warboyrb 4 месяца назад

Agree completely. 911 just defended hard, after being bumped.

@DxModel219 4 месяца назад

insane! absolutely insane!

@billgabrielsonjr7259 4 месяца назад

@buckdashe2571 Lol. That might be true. But you take into account every other time he ran him off the track, and that win shouldn’t have stood. Absolutely ridiculous, race, you’re not a swerving road block. Magnussen I’m sure wishes he’d have dumped his ass knowing what was going to happen.

@fj06carnone 4 месяца назад

He was being pinned against the wall. Anyone's first reaction would be to push back against the person presenting.

@user-pt5hc6rs2j 4 месяца назад

You know why this time period was great? Because there were actually drivers who got the seat for being the best, not paying the most.

@davidcisneros1429 5 месяцев назад

Magnuson should have been suspended two races.

@scotty7132 4 месяца назад

The Porsche driver should have been punished for that.

@NikeHM69 5 месяцев назад

Your next reaction should be the 2007 12 hours of sebring finish. Ironically Burmeister is involved in that epic finish also.

@moneylap 5 месяцев назад

will do! Thanks for the suggestion!

@12w0 5 месяцев назад

@@moneylap yep. this incident will make sense after you watch it.

@rigadventure 5 месяцев назад

I love Porsche but it's obvious that the Corvette was faster and the Porsche kept blocking.

@moestacolli1886 5 месяцев назад

Frustrating to behind someone that much slower partially why he keeps going off he is having to slow down behind that loser in the Porsche

@albertbahoogadin 5 месяцев назад

Anyone who uses the PITLANE like that clown in the vett did deserves everything he got.... if he was sooo much faster then why couldn't he pass anywhere but the first corner??? Why was he constantly ramming???..... lol.... try harder xx

@claudiomarangone614 4 месяца назад

Much slower because his tires were much older. Yeah, shouldn’t have pushed him into the wall

@RkL9Clan 4 месяца назад

The Corvette driver hit's the Porsche so many times and in the last corner hit's them to have better aceleration than the porshce,so he's a dirty driver😅

@moestacolli1886 4 месяца назад

@@RkL9Clan portch was so much slower the corvette kept getting held up mid corner the porch car was obnoxiously slower and watching him block to the point he’s getting rammed and pushing cars behind them off track was embarrassing I thought I was watching a low iq Forza Motorsport lobby

@ralphlazio505 5 месяцев назад

Yeah; that was a bitch move on the #45 at the final stretch.

@xGusth 5 месяцев назад

The Corvette headlights are kinda blinding, right?

@mkII. 5 месяцев назад

I thought you weren't allowed to intentionally block or wreck someone, which is exactly what the Porsche did. He knew he was gonna be passed into the final flag so he pitted the corvette into the wall after a back bump. How is this not an auto DQ for the Porsche? And a ban.

@chriscordray8572 5 месяцев назад

But yet the corvette was intentionally hitting the Porsche. You're pretty biased. 😂

@mkII. 5 месяцев назад

@@chriscordray8572 he got tired of that slow piece of shit Porsche blocking every corner and straight. Any driver would eventually bump and run his ass. If you can't tell the difference between that aggressive driving and intentionally crashing another car I guess your pretty stupid.

@donQpublic 5 месяцев назад

That flying lizard livery is rad!

@UGAfan12132 5 месяцев назад

Best one so far! I wish I had been in to sports car racing back then first time seeing this finish

@moneylap 5 месяцев назад

thanks! Glad you enjoy!

@AndrewFosterSheff69 5 месяцев назад

I crossed the finish line at Donington Park, sliding backwards on the grass and took 3rd recently. Very satisfying! I'll take any podium that comes my way!

@KyanCamaro-yd7le 5 месяцев назад

You guys react herbie fully loaded nascar race

@lyesaissi3616 4 месяца назад

Porsche loses because of his fault

@whiskyone 4 месяца назад

Typical Porsche driver.

@kd9937 4 месяца назад

Typical Porsche driver

@SoloNinja253 4 месяца назад

The drivers with the ultra bright lights trying to blind the other drivers…that’s a serious bitch move.

@paxwallace8324 4 месяца назад

That Porsche was wrong.

@matl7560 4 месяца назад

Yeah bro it would have been hard for me not to meet up with the Porsche team crossing California state line. This would have been a classic RFE moment for them. This *uck could have killed that guy to clip him when his car is clearly faster on the straight. (Regardless of previous contact) And *uck the series for not doing anything about this (at this race). It was like “don’t talk about it and hope his hospital visit goes ok so we don’t look bad” Again, this Porsche guy would have been lucky to make it to the next race if you did this to my teammate you would have been *ucked.

@bjank4598 5 месяцев назад

Thanks for posting this. I remember watching this when it was on years ago and was hooked.

@pickerpete8208 4 месяца назад

These narrators suck

@FaithinThoth 4 месяца назад

Bumping bumpers is racing but that is not. After recovery I would seek some street justice. 5 minutes and deal back the pain.

@jordankirby3075 5 месяцев назад

React to the Alms series Gt2 battle from Sebring 2007 that was great back then

@blacklisterd 5 месяцев назад

I stopped watching sports cars many years ago because of garbage like this & ive never missed it. Im old enough to remember the sanctioning bodies being brutally unfair & playing favorites as with the corvettes limiting their hp. Blocking isn't racing.

@marklittle8805 5 месяцев назад

Jorg should have been sent packing for a next year and have that taken away. This isn't NASCAR.

@EndlessFlame1 5 месяцев назад

Rubbin's racing

@blacklisterd 5 месяцев назад

@@EndlessFlame1 & Blocking deserves a trip to the wall.

@carldodge8294 4 месяца назад

corvette number one

@moestacolli1886 5 месяцев назад

You really can’t mess with an ultra light front engine rwd chassis with a nasty v8 Porsche should have been allowed to take back that position once the Vette got in front of him he started putting buses on that idiot

@slimvincent10 5 месяцев назад

I was there, standing at the last turn before the straight. It was unbelievable.

@Mustang_Chris 5 месяцев назад

Dirty driving. The Porsche pushed the Vette off track 3 times, got bumped, then did a pit maneuver to wreck his opponent.

@jetsteeltherealdeal7827 4 месяца назад

Corvettes 👍

@cxns155 4 месяца назад

Glad that more ppl are being exposed to this legendary clip. My first reaction was, this is old. But I’m old

@Tzekkie 4 месяца назад

Pay atention to headlights. Everyone is so bright except for the 911, it's different

@Alans-qm5ch 5 месяцев назад

Is this gt2 racing? Or stock car. Officials should stop too dangerous driving

@AliasHSW 5 месяцев назад

Remember watching that live. One of the best finishes of all times and all leagues.

@lukesworkout2232 5 месяцев назад

I wouldn't call that a finish, unless you look at it as a demolition derby, in which case yes the Porsche won by finishing the Corvette into the wall.

@select20 5 месяцев назад

Can anyone wiegh in, why was #45 allowed to push the Corvette into the wall like that? I remember seeing this years ago and I've always wondered why that was allowed.

@Americathebeautiful49 5 месяцев назад

Maybe it was because the Corvette attempted a pit maneuver a la the California Highway Patrol.

@12w0 5 месяцев назад

Well, the Porsche #45 was involved in a similar situation a while back before this race. It was at Sebring (2007?) versus the Ferrari #62 and on the last lap right before the finish the Ferrari pushed the Porsche nearly into the wall and it was deemed a racing incident despite the Ferrari bumping then rubbing the side of the Porsche while racing to the finish. Watch the Sebring race if you can and you will see why #45 was justified in protecting his position.

@Steve-yr5vi 5 месяцев назад

@@Americathebeautiful49 The Corvette was trying to go by, getting by the constant blocking by the Porsche after the Corvette went by the Porsche executed a Pitt maneuver perfectly. That year Porsche was allowed to alter the architecture of the 911 effectively making it a mid-engine sports car. Everyone else is running a car that has the architecture of showroom vehicles except the Porsche which is running a purpose build architecture with a 911 shell on top.

@speedwaylabsdev 5 месяцев назад

Enjoyed this and remember it vividly Would love for you guys to comment on a Hooters Pro Cup Series race & tie it back to your thoughts about what classic stockcar short track racing can/should be

@pfalweer9579 5 месяцев назад

Oyes i like the porschedriver over and over again corvet is hitting

@antggamingkartingcars4873 5 месяцев назад

For a video idea, react to some IMSA crashes and give your input on who is at fault. Who else would watch??? 👇

@StarChaser027 5 месяцев назад

Well the Porsche should have been disqualified or penalised...had the Chevy done that their would have been sanctions and disqualifications, bans you name it.

@lincolnls0416 4 месяца назад

Typical Chevy Driver. Trying to crash the leader to win but ends up messing himself up. Deserves to crash. Be glad wasn't a Ford racing. Ford would have won easier then that Porsche.

@stevemartin2717 4 месяца назад

Took care of those blinding head and fog lights

@_JimS 4 месяца назад

Correction: IMSA was formed in 1969, The Weather Tech series was formed by the merger in 2014 of ALMS and Grand Am.

@Speediesam 4 месяца назад

Weird have not one person talked about what happened at Sebring, which is why he wasn’t gonna let it happen again?

@csl750 5 месяцев назад

Vette clearly had more power... but the better control of the Porche just balanced out the racing...

@moneylap 5 месяцев назад

The best of both worlds collide!

@R0b0tkilla 5 месяцев назад

2024 12 hours of Sebring ACURA vs Cadillac hypercar. That got crazy the ACURA drove like physics aren't real.

@FootageFactory 4 месяца назад

Money lap. What is this channel highlighting road racing? Love it!

@JP_Stoeffler 5 месяцев назад

An idea for a reaction could be the 4 wide finish from the Indy Lights at Indianapolis back in 2013 (2014?) I believe? Love the channel!

@joe-hp4nk 4 месяца назад

It is way better without the commentary.

@number1Schumacherfan 5 месяцев назад

I was at this race and it was epic. The R15 Audi LMP was supposed to be there but didn’t show up.

@williamforbes7156 5 месяцев назад

there was some driver on the vinwiki that did some crazy high Gs in a backflip crash that could be an interesting cover.

@mcgusto82 4 месяца назад

Porsche deliberately put the vette towards the wall.

@3120DownForce 5 месяцев назад

Would like to see the race from Love's RV Stop 250 on October of 2012 🤘🏁

@jeffantypasandbalbeewarthu899 5 месяцев назад

The guy in the corvete reminds me of some of the idiot rammers in forza 5, get mad u cant pass so try to pit them , fail and wreck urself lol

@TheCrownedLion 4 месяца назад

Porsche was running him off the course multiple times. The corvette obviously had pace and when in front raced fair that race but the Porsche driver was driving almost like he was in a destruction derby when in front. I completely understand the frustration of the corvette driver.

@farnum3297 4 месяца назад

The vette pilots were very well known for their Nascar style aggressive driving. So please do some homework, it was about time to get served what they did to the 911 driver. Bergmeister had enough abd when the idiot Vette driver tried to squeeze in a non existent space he paid the price. What, did you expect for him an open space invite?? Lol.

@TheCrownedLion 4 месяца назад

@@farnum3297 Of course not, but you gotta admit during this race the Porsche drove pretty damn unsportsmanlike, how could the corvette driver not do something back.

@Jessiejam-44 5 месяцев назад

The Different Headlights color mean different class of car.?.?

@JonathanGarcía-n1s 5 месяцев назад

Nunca te metas con un porche

@LumberjackMC 5 месяцев назад

Jan Magnussen, Father of F1 driver Kevin Magnussen, absolutely phenomenal GT and Prototype racer. Also Jan had Kevin when he was 19, i feel like that Should be known information, Jan is 50 and Kevin is 32 and they both race. Wish they would race together in IMSA.

@moneylap 5 месяцев назад

that would be awesome!

@ericwieboldt7042 4 месяца назад

Look at how dark it is🙄

@marloncarmo262 4 месяца назад

Jogou o Corvette no muro interno

@kevinsellsit5584 5 месяцев назад

Concrete barrier ... there is no substitute. Wait, that is not how it goes.

@charlesstrecker7336 4 месяца назад

85 danny Sullivan

@JuergenGDB 5 месяцев назад

I remember watching the entire race.. it was such an extreme battle the end was tragic and emotional. The other crazy race that was nuts was Sebring 2007 between Flying Lizard once again Bergmeister and the Risi Ferrari with Miller doing some rubbing running the Porsche wide... it was epic. I do miss a dedicated Racing channel. I think if someone coordinated enough, you could manage Imsa, WEC, Asia series, Moto GP, Superbike, Rally Racing, and other epic motor vehicle goodness.

@JuergenGDB 5 месяцев назад

I really feel for Jan, but Jorg really wanted it super bad.