Porting vs Mass: Which is Better for Recoil Management? 

I may have to get out and purchase a Model 19 CC. I really enjoy the Revolver content especially for those of us that rely on them as a primary self defense firearm. Semper Fi! 🤠👍🏻

The porting seems to have a very slim edge, but, so slight are the differences that I'd call it an overall draw. It would be interesting to see this comparison in the hands of a novice shooter, HR. Maybe that would reveal a winner?

I always rewatch Saturdays video 1. Builds Views 2. To get the whole video because I'm usually talking on the chat

Great experiment ! I can say for the 44 magnum, my Taurus 44SS4 with 4 inch factory ported barrel has some less felt recoil over my S&W model 629 Classic full underlug 5 inch no porting. I do believe porting does help to an extent but not a total cure for a hot cartridge. Have a Blessed Day

Well done, Chief! Those wheelies were certainly up to the task. I think today's results (still) confirm to me that it's hard to beat a good ol' K frame, especially if you have to carry it.

I have a ported Benelli , not sure if it does much but it looks so cool...

My 4 inch Model 19-4 square butt will always be my favorite handgun, but if I had to go back on patrol today, and I had to carry a revolver, my 4 inch 686-2 would be in my holster. There's just something about it's size and heft that is comforting to me. Not to mention it's laser accurate! This was a very good video. I've never owned a compensated handgun, so I really enjoyed the demonstration and comparison between comp vs weight.

This is a very interesting subject and the first video I have seen on this subject. My Taurus titanium revolver is ported and I was amazed how well it worked (reducing recoil).

Nice shooting there. It looks like the carry comp did what it was designed to do. Thanks for demonstrating the (slight) differences between the two.

That was very good thanks for that I was actually surprised at the results. God bless and stay safe out there

Good video, excellent shooting. Thanks for going out into the cold for us. I did a similar test to decide which carry gun to go with. I have a 2 1/2" Model 19, with of course, target sights. I shot it against a 3" Model65 with fixed sights. The result was that I spent a whole bunch of (my wife's) money to buy myself a 3" Model 65. The difference in the 1/2" of barrel was just a slight issue and did give the M65 a little more weight to counter recoil and a slightly longer sight radius. The target sights on the M19 were quicker to pick up, so the first shot came sooner with it. The first shot (in my belief) being the most important shot of the gunfight. But the fixed sights of the M65 were not as much of a detriment as I expected them to be. The final issue is that as much as I truly love the Model 19 Combat Magnum for duty carry, that darned squared-off rear sight was annoying when carrying the gun concealed! It was always jabbing me! The fixed sights on the M65 .357 Magnum M&P are far more user friendly for concealed carry. That might be why the M65 was an issued gun to DEA and the blued steel version M13 was the issued gun of the FBI.

Nice comparison. Time and shot placement of the carry comp appears very well as an advantage. Clear and concise, couldn't ask for more.

Seeing extensive tests done with muzzle brakes on rifles, they sure do make a difference. Then they narrow down to which brakes make the biggest difference. It would be the same with which way of porting used on a handgun. Since my shoulder injury/operation due to a motorcycle accident, I can't even shoot a bolt action 308 much because the recoil gets to it. The owner of a gun range wanted me to sight in his 338 Magnum Lapua since he knew I was good at such type of shooting. I told him no way because of the kick. He assured me with the muzzle brake he had that it wouldn't be so bad. To my surprise, it wasn't too bad but somehow that thing with full loads would still rattle my teeth and brain. He finally got the load down that worked best over several weekends of testing it. Wow, that rifle and round was ACCURATE. And no, I don't want to fire it again after several weekends of doing it. That was enough!

I just port or have muzzle brakes on all my big bore revolvers and 10mm pistol. I want every recoil mitigation advantage I can get.

An excellent, well thought out presentation. Thanks.

It's always nice to see actual results to help sort facts from fuddlore.

Love the content! Keep it coming.

Thanks for the video. Looks like you had a much better day at the range than I had at the range.

👍👍great comparison and really close between the two. Appreciate the video.

Great demonstration. I think this is really quite revealing and helpful. I would have to say that the "recoil" with the 3" 19 appeared lower/less the the 4" 686. I have owned the older model 686 in 4" & 6". My brother has the 8 3/8" and we shot them a good bit. The 4" had the most noticable recoil as one would expect but was the one I preferred to shoot and was typically the most accurate with it. My father had a 6" with a custom trigger that was incredible. Smooth, slick and light. That made a big difference in shot placement and seemed to be more "controllable". I did carry my 6" in a a couple hip & shoulder rigs on occasion but found myself consistently choosing the 4". All this being said a slightly smaller, shorter, lighter round butt revolver that can match or better the 4" heavier revolver absolutely makes sense even with some loss of velocity and energy. Well done. Thanks a bundle.

Great video. Really like the revolver content. Going to focus on revolvers more this year.

Very good shooting , thanks for sharing this info

If we look at cars and see the advances that came from racing that trickled down to everyday cars we can see the same for competitive shooting and edc......comps and red dots are the future and here to stay

Thanks for the video Mr funk.. I think the major thing is if you're carrying a 3-in or 2 in.. lighter weight gun porting does help keeping muzzle rise down some... The only ported gun I own is a charter arms magpug 357 with 2-1/4 in factory ported barrel .. 19oz empty!!! .. I do believe the porting keeps the muzzle rise down with the 357mag rounds .. this is my only ported gun and my only 357 that I own so I don't have a another 357 snub nose non ported.. for comparison... But I really do believe it does help on the short barrel lightweight .357 or .44 mag

Yeah i was always guessing if it made any difference until i did some similar testing both with handguns and rifles and i did find as you did here, the comp helps even more with high powered rifles in this way, it makes a light rifle recoil about like the heavier same caliber rifle so the advantage is being able to carry a lighter rifle on a hunt and shoot the same as with the heavier rifle, also i found the the comp designs are not all created equal, as some ported/compensated barreled rifles recoil in identical calibers more or less.

I figured it'd be about a dead heat between these two; you'd need a longer barrel (much heavier) variant for it to make a difference, I think; then accuracy could come down to funny things like sight radius, etc. Still fun to see, thanks Chief :)

yep

HRF, I thumbs up at the start like the timer went off ! A recent gun show visit had some vintage S&W's to admire but I see there is currently a on line vendor well stocked with K frames. I know that I would be risking having to deal with S&W's customer service department if I layout the cash. I think the new stock would be beneficial due to the performance upgrades. Once the key lock is removed that is.

Very awesome video. I also have the Model 19CC and a Model 686 Plus with a 2 1/2" barrel! My 686 Plus is a dream to shoot and very accurate with the 2 1/2" barrel. I have put my 19CC through its paces and I must say that I do not really see a difference with the compensator. I love both revolvers and due to weight I like to carry the 19CC even if I have one less round.

Excellent demonstration as always! I have these two models in my collection and am partial to the 19 carry comp in terms of how it feels on firing as well as the pointability of it due to its slightly yet noticeable lower weight. Another way to compare the efficacy of the comp is to run it head to head with the model 66 2&3/4” inch non ported. I see these two as siblings of one another and definitely feel the difference in recoil between them. 19 K comp is a winner for me. Keep ‘em coming sir.

I have a Glock 32c in 357Sig, which is comped. It definitely helps with recoil mitigation in my Glock 19 sized firearm.

This was an excellent video, Howard, focusing on a very interesting (at least to me) question. As always, thank you for the content, the articulate and lucid commentary, and the innovative subject. I have always favored heavier, longer barreled sidearms. My rationale follows: 1. Essentially all handguns are poor / marginal defensive lawful “terminators.” 2. While shot placement is always the most critical variable, projectile expansion and pentarion are quite important. 3. Most top-tier defensive bullets must attain a given velocity to expand reliably (this, of course, often presumes the hollow point’s cavity isn’t filled with some foreign substance). 4. Therefore, a loss of even 50 FPS (at the muzzle) could cause that JHP to fail to expand upon impact. For obvious reasons, short barreled sidearms are very popular (consider all the ~3 inch, 9mm, micro-compacts), however, their muzzle velocities may well be less than ideal to ensure reliable projectile expansion. Were muzzle velocity reduced by, for example, even 50 FPS, then than JHP might essentially become a FMJ round. To summarize, expansion is important for defense, short barreled handguns provide lower projectile velocities, and ported barrels may fail to achieve expansion-crucial velocities at ranges greater than a few yards.

Great demonstration! I was impressed by m19 cc, I thought the 686 would have the advantage as range increased..Hope the new year is treating you well..

Good analysis professor.

I'd be really curious to see the same comparison between the Carry Comp and a non-ported 2.5" M19 or M66. Great vid as always!

I shoot a Ruger GP100 .357 magnum (Wiley Clapp collaboration) with a 3" barrel. I had it machined at Mag-Na-Port International with trapezoidal porting. I shoot Barnes hollow point ammunition in the range of 110 - 125 grain. What a pleasure to shoot!!!

Great video HR! Really liking that carry comp!! Hmmm?

Good morning HR. Another good video. If you compared the Carry Comp to a 2.5 inch model 19 or 686 the advantage would probably be more obvious. You need to go full scientific on this. Get a Ransom rest, grid background, and a super slow motion camera to record recoil movement.😀

Visually the muzzle flip on the 19 CC was noticeably less ! Porting works !

Both revolver does a great job

Thanks for the video, really enjoy this type of content. Wish I could find a 19 carry comp, nobody seems to be able to get one in my area, I'll keep looking.

I have a Colt Kodiak /anaconda 4 inch 44 mag ported for bear protection in Alaska It definitely shoots quicker than my S/W 629 44. , but they were about the same shooting the lighter 44 spl ammo . Accuracy very good with both shooting the 44 spl ammo . Thanks for the good show . Good info.

It'd be interesting to see the energy difference of 4'' vs. ported 3''. At the same time every barrel is different even comparing the same lengths and cone gaps looking at lots of Gun Sam ammo tests. That 3'' with a shrouded hammer would be cool to carry.

Great content & info.,....Appreciate the share Sir - Thank You.

Nice shooting. 👍

Good content Sir. Very close match up

Great video!

Another good one 👍

Both guns are great. I am a huge fan of the Smith revolver line. I would like to see how that ported barrel works in low light conditions though. That big hole putting the flame and gasses of a 357 mag load up through that hole in front of your face along with the usual muzzle blast of the magnum load.

Good Video, As usual ! 🙂

Really Nice Shooting From Each of The Pistols HrFunk 😮😀😊😀👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

Another great video and another reason I’m still kicking myself for not buying a revolver as my first weapon. The 686 was issued to a lot of us when I used to work security at the banks, though I seemed to have been the odd one out when I was issued the Ruger GP100. Unfortunately when I left that company to pursue my second degree, they had phased out the revolvers and(ironically) had everyone switch to Glock 22(.40). I found out later that they sold all the old Smiths and eventually my GP(wished they just sold it to me when I left, but eh). I just looked online: both the regular Model 19s and the 686s are either sold out or(Model 29) is not available in California. They do have a ton of 2020 Pythons, but that’s another topic for another day.

Thanks for the comparison. While I do not shoot revolvers any more, because of grip I would think it would result in better recoil management. I would also expect longer barrels to benefit more from porting.

Good video HR I was concentrated on looking at the muzzle flip, and didn't notice much of a difference between the two. So that tells me that the compensator was doing its job with the lighter and shorter barrel. Compensators should improve the time it takes to getting a sight picture when firing rapid strings of fire. If you ever do something like this again, have a camera filming from the side, that way it would be easier to measure the muzzle flip.

I arrived late , my boss fault, this is a greater comparison, can’t help but favor the 686

Awesome video! I own a 586-2 as my EDC and I've been eyeing those carry Comps despite many new smiths disappointing me. I'd be very curious to see a similar test in low light since that comp is flashing it right up into your line of sight.

Different revolver, but I've been debating buying a Taurus 608. The ported barrel is one of the things that has me on the fence. Thanks for giving me more to think about.

Your a good shot my friend…most would think they all land in the bull but handloadin everyday for over a yr now I can tell you with assurance it’s alot harder than it looks….180gr 10mm blem on press as we speak..just got a crono and gonna speed check the 135 nosler..155 Lehigh..180hp and 200gr xtp from 6” trp…hey do a bottle desperado video with your 10 with the 135s….brother they cease to exist when those make contact..most fun 10mm round I’ve got…180s do serious damage also..can went 25yrds up and 20out..lol..always appreciate your work HR…your ol buddie matt in ky

Interesting video HR. I don't have any ported guns but I did invest in a compensator for my Ruger PC9 which I like a lot. Another video idea that many may find interesting would be your opinion on the merits/drawbacks of carrying 357 magnum in a shorter barrel, lighter weight revolver, as opposed to carrying 38spl +P in it. I know many police officers & many average joes do that. My gut instinct is that in a barrel of less than say 3 inches, you're not getting enough velocity on the magnum ammo to make it worth it over a hot 38spl load anyway. It seems that in snubbies for example there is virtually no reason to carry a full house 357 magnum load, but maybe you disagree. Thanks for your time & videos.

What a great drill. The ammo was definitely full power stuff. I recently watched Jerry Michelak testing the new carry comp against the new classic 4 inch model 19. He used American Gunner 357 which is very definitely full power ammo. He kept shaking his hand after firing the 4 inch gun. Just wondering, aside from the times, was one of them more pleasant to shoot over the other? Yet another great video sir.

That was pretty much what I expected, maybe I should have kept that performance center Shield

Different topic - I appreciate that you refer to guns as firearms - not weapons. IMHO they are not weapons until they are used as such. As a Boy Scout leader, my troop never used the term weapon in reference to the rifle shotgun campout because the rifles and shotguns were articles of sporting equipment. I tend to bristle when other you tube personalities use the term weapon as I believe it leads some people to think firearms are are only for the purpose of shooting people. Kudos to great content.

Knowing the velocities would be interesting. i would take the L frame over the 3" 19. outstanding presentation Devil Dog

Mr Funk,..Always enjoy your revolver videos. It does appear that the porting makes a difference,. But it would be interesting to know the velocity and foot pounds gap between the two.

Excellent 👍. I think that was a great test. My question is what about the sound? One complaint that I always hear about muzzle brakes or ported barrels is the increased decibels? On video I really couldn't hear a difference. I think with such an experienced good shooter as yourself You're going to do pretty well regardless of the differences. I think it would be interesting to see the difference with a less experienced shooter if the ported barrel would help them or if the weight would help them? Thank you 👍

HR Funk. You need to revisit this test, and add a model 66, to compare port,mass, & unported variables. It’s apparent that the port is fairly equal to the added mass.

I have a 4" m44 by taurus and it has porting also. I know that it's porting does help alot with full power. 44 magnum loads from this gun. I also have a 4" m66 from taurus as well. It doesn't have any porting. And I will tell you that using full power .357 loads in my m66 compared to using full power loads in my m44, the m66 has more felt recoil that the more powerful m44.

3" solid barrel . Part of it may be the K frame is a little better for carry .

Boy is that the truth HR

You got the closest to doing a 3inch to 3inch comparison that would have been super useful

Well done, but I’d still be interested in seeing chronograph results for the 3” barrel. In my experience, even with faster burning powders, velocity really drops off below 4” of barrel length. A 50-75 fps difference in velocity is definitely going to be significant in terms of recoil.

Nice video as usual HR. I have a question for you and maybe a topic for future video. Several years ago I thought a small revolver mite be good for my CCW. I picked up a S&W Bodyguard 38 (has the Intergal Red laser attached to the side, now they ;use Crimson Trace since it is part of the S&W). This is a double action only revolver , no exposed hammer and I thought this would help in preventing snagging on a draw from the holster. However, I had two issues after the purchase 1) staging of the trigger, 2) it would bite into my hand on recoil. I was use to my Dan Wesson Model 15VH when shooting and double action it pulls all the way through and hammer is released. The bodyguard has a spot that is like a ledge (found out this is called staging) then it goes off after pulling through that spot. It did take some time to adjust this feature, not I have really, which pushed me to the S&W Shield 40, which I really like and comfortable shooting. Calling Smith and Wesson they said they could not remove the staging of the cycle. The second issue is that little gun even though in 38 special would bite into my palm after a few rounds. Maybe a year later I found a video on RU-vid from a guy with this same problem for this model of pistol. He found a Hogue ‘Tamer’ grip that was slightly larger and more cushion. Remove the old grip and replace according to instruction. (Video helped as well). This was a real changer for shooting the pistol, no more sore palm. Any who, maybe a video on the small wheel guns and addressing recoil and that staging feature when shooting such a revolver. Thanks a bunch enjoy the channel and keep it in the 10 ring. 😊

They are both very good. Were those 38 or 357 loads? 357 from what heard towards the end of the video.

Love it! I've got the same revolvers and I'm not a fan of the CC porting because of the upward muzzle flash, it's blinding.

Except for the outlier I believe the 19 had the better grouping

To quote another wise fella, "Is it enough difference to make a difference? You be the judge."

As it seems the 19 Carry Comp had a slight (possibly insignificant?) edge in all three events, it'd be interesting to see this same demo done again in subdued or less than optimal light. Not sure if muzzle blast is greater with the ported barrel or not, but, if so, could make a difference. Thanks for the video.

Porting doesn't work unless you supply the PSI horsepower from the load. A Navy vet I know, told me the porting on his Dan Wesson .44 mag. Did nothing to attenuate recoil! I gave him some 240gr bullets over 26.2 grs. WW 296. Suddenly they work great! Love my old nickel 19-4 6".

Wouldn't want to get shot with either one. Good shooting.

I could go either way...Jerry M had tons of his Magna Ported and he knows a few things....but I also don't want too much of a reduction of velocity like the Sig Macro. If anything porting would help you at night flash fire see the front site and BG not blind you like fudd lore. Sage dynamic proved that

Interesting comparison actually felt the 686 would come out the winner. Have been thinking about that Model 19 3" Carry Comp for some time may need to get one. I carry a S&W 629 2.6" Performance Center .44 with hot Buffalo Bore .44 Special and .44 Magnum JHP. A .357 3 inch would be a nice addition.

Thx for the interesting comparison. For the point you are trying to make, it might make more sense to remove the time to first shot from the comparison. It felt as if you were good bit slower on the 686. Plus, as a fellow reloader I would be interested in the speeds you get with those reloads out of the Carry Comp. One inch of barrel plus the comp, I would bet you are losing 100 ft/s. Almost 100 ft-lb less is something you would likely recognize in recoil

Thanks for illustrating the differences so well. Question re the 19CC: how extensive is the muzzle flash coming from both the compensator and the end of the barrel? I looked for and didn't see any flash in the video. Thanks for taking the time to respond and again for this testing.

It looks to me like the Model 19 was faster on target transition in the failure drill, you looked faster moving from torso to head and breaking the head shot -- before I even saw your time summaries. Apart from the target transition question, your accuracy with both pistols is pretty much a dead heat IMO. Very interesting comparison, thank you hrfunk. You shoot those short, powerful revolvers very well.

Another great video! Thoughts on the revived Colt King Cobra in 3”?

Great show. I was wondering if trigger weight and the front sight visibility are similar

Port it and shoot the hot stuff. Just my opinion 🤷 😌 Thanks HR Funk ♡ Semper Fidelis

BTW I would love to see more on the musket displayed on your bench. Was that one that you bought complete or was that a kit? My father and I did 2 kits when I was a kid. One was a 45 caliber Kentucky long rifle the other was a 45 caliber pistol I think it had a 10-in barrel. Both were really beautiful but the pistol we never really got it to shoot very well. The rifle shot extremely well. Thank you 👍

Interesting! “Porting vs Mass?” I’ll go with mass in most cases. Porting works better on high pressure cartridges making lots of gas. We’ve compared my wife’s two .38 Centennials. One is the stainless M640 and the other is a magna-ported variation of the M442 that the Performance Center made around 1994, and called the M460 (this was before the X-frame revolvers existed). With identical ammo and grips, the ported Airweight kicks harder. With a 1-7/8” barrel and a gun that never sees more gas than +P .38 provides, the porting seems to do little. I do own a magna-ported field grade Freedom Arms in .454 Casull - a big round operating at very high pressures). In that case, I think the porting makes sense.

I'd like to see that same test with 125 grain Remington high terminal performance semi jacketed hollow points. I shot some out of a 4" Kimber and they averaged 1480 fps. I felt like they were to hot for that gun.

well done hr sorry for tardy i overslept

being that both pistols are .357 i doubt anyone will argue that any of those shots would have made for a bad day if those targets had been actual bad guys.ONce again ,very good shooting Marine

There are many different aspects of physics involved in why you achieved those results. Would there be any difference with a light load that would negate the porting? Would a black 686 help you achieve faster times? Is it a factor of a heavier load that gives an advantage to one, or does the shorter barrel gives you the advantage to get a quicker sight picture? A large can of worms there.

The only thing I can think of that may have affected testing via time, is the PC trigger of the M19CC, vs the stock(?) trigger of the 686. I guess it won't matter for most, since a size issue will likely be considered first, in regards to a 4" L-Frame, vs a 3" K-Frame. How do these compare in terms of felt recoil? Was one softer than the other? Because if they feel the same then this would seem to speak volumes about the compensator.

It's important to remember that the firearm you shoot last in each drill will usually have a slightly faster time because the shooter is getting used to the drill every time you execute it. By the last drill, you are on your 4th attempt at the same exact drill and most shooters will usually be faster at that point, as well as usually being slightly more accurate. It may have been better if you fired the 19 CC first in some of the tests and then the 686 in others, it makes the test a bit more equal. In the last comparison, the very first shot although decent, was way off compared to all the other shots. That appears to show that your first shot was the shot you used to get used to new testing (6 shots) drill. It may not be that the ported barrel made a difference, just the fact that the 19 CC was fired last in each comparison. You got more acquainted with the course and faster as well. Of course, the time differences in this case are negligible and may just come down to human response.

I think I have the best of both worlds. My Taurus Tracker 627 is 4" and has a ported barrel, it shoots like a dream.

Interesting comparison, how did the "felt recoil" feel to you? Also, it sounded to me that the Mod19CC had a larger/louder muzzle blast, did you notice any major difference between the two pistols?

Hmm, as far as a tactical situation I am not sure there is a real difference. In a competition, the Carry Comp probably has an edge. But, as always, it is down to the shooter to be able to utilize it.

It would be interesting to see a test of a 2.5 inch 66 ported and 2.5 inch 686 non ported

that 686 is no good I will take it off your hands if you like . LOL Great video H R