"Powerbuilding is an Abomination" | Natural Hypertrophy VS. Bald Omni-Man 

Boy there was some trauma behind that barbecue monologue

I'm a 76 year old woman who loves strength taining. Your video on deadlifts showed me what I was doing wrong. Will I ever deadlift 500 lbs....no but I can deadlift and farmer carry my weight! Thanks for your channel! I never miss your videos.

Alan is still the most real dude in the fitness industry after all these years. Never sold out or changed who he was to get approval. Respect

Train however you want, just go to the gym, the only thing that matters is your end goal then use specificity towards your goal. Its that simple

Alan, as one of the "gamers" that watched other gamers back in the day, it was very rarely for secrets or improvement! Similarly, despite being a lifter, I watch EVERY one of your videos despite not really having the problem addressed (not being a dad etc.) Just because they are entertaining and YOU are a cool dude. I think i speak for some people in saying this

I liked the answer of "just deadlift 700lbs and you'll have all the muscle you want" I remember hearing you say that years back, or something along those lines, so I chased just building my deadlift as much as possible, I did build up my back and got very muscular, but the love for chasing that number overtook my love for wanting the muscle, so I started powerlifting. Years later, I have deadlifted 700, I have all the muscle I want, and I've found love for powerlifting

I like the idea of powerbuilding even if it’s not “optimal” for both. Some people just like maxing out there lifts and axing out gains. If your trying to be a pro power lifter or bodybuilder your probably going to need to focus on one or the other but for most of us powerbuilding is going to be good

BOM is also someone whose approach to fitness I identify with. I want to get swole but I also want to push my strength to the limits. It’s great to hear you all put your 2 cents in.

I like your always empathetic stance on these things. You always invite people to go out of their echo chambers and get some fresh perspective. Keep up with this!

Hell yeah pumped to hear your thoughts

The og Hodgetwins reference did not go unnoticed.

I think it's an interesting window into human nature when you think of how small a percentage of the gen. pop actually has sincere passion about training. Bodybuilders, powerlifters, weightlifters, strongmen and everything in between have mutual passion for training and have much more in common with each other than we do with the rest of the world. Yet, there is always this powerful temptation to distinguish ourselves from each other so we can feel superior rather than embracing a mutual love for training and always pushing our limits. Fascinating.

Watching untamed strength when I first started lifting taught me more to start than I could have imagined, and later on getting into Bald Omni Man, GVS, and others has helped me just as much. To see you guys essentially peer review each other is great, even when you don't agree. All of this helps to deepen understanding.

The more and more this fight goes on the more I realize it is like chocolate versus vanilla icecream arguments in kindergarten

As always, Thrall coming with a level headed response to what’s going down in the fitness community.

Reminds me of the time I got my first smoker and then did some research/asked around for cooking advice. Holy hell! I was not ready for the avalanche of BS...arguemnts, gatekeepers, and extreme confliction. And yup, my powerlifting journey has been filled with the same. Through all this I've learned to just do me and tune the rest of it out as much as I want. I have the mainstays that have never failed me, and Alan, you are one of them. The rest of it is just chatter in the wind. Edit: spelin

Alan is the wise voice of fitness industry

I am a 70 -year-man that started lifting in the 1960's when I was 14-15 years of age. been a gym rat ever since. I have done body Building bench pressing 450l bs squatting 550lbs, leg pressing 1000 lbs. Arm curls 250lbs. that was in the early 1990". Today I am trying to move into kettlebell, heavy clubs and mace and sledgehammers because i am trying to give my body a different feel and i want to build a stronger cord and back. i am also including landmine work outs. I am through with body beautiful cause of my age i need the strength not so much the looks. been there done that. this is for long life and health. Strength training will give you that edge if you are willing to put in the work. MOST PEOPLE HAVE FAR TOO MANY EXCUSES FOR NOT DOING IT BUT WANT THE DOCTORS TO GIVE THEM A PILL TO LOOK GREAT OVERNIGHT. PLUS. FOR ME IT IS TO SEE HOW FAR I CAN GO AS I GET OLDER. THANKS FOR THE FLICK.

Another factor is age, different people have different goals at different times in their lives. From vanity to health concerns, we all have our own motivations. Another great job Alan!

Alan, you’re one of the smartest and most insightful guys on the platform. Everything you say is so well-articulated and well thought-out. Always appreciate your perspective

The world of online barbecue sounds like a fun battleground!

Taking time to consider your response is the right way to go Alan! Great video!

NH is the LAST "influencer" I'd take advice from.

This is the value of hearing an argument, thinking and pondering, formulating a well thought out opinion and then speaking about it. I love Alan's philosophy....."Do whatever you want, you are an adult."

Love this type of content. Much appreciated as always

Excellent point about bodybuilding not having immediate feedback. I always take something from your videos!

Powerbuilding is my favorite way of training, as someone who doesn't look to compete in either category I feel like its the most balanced approach.

Wise words as always from Alan , someone who understands the training game and has years of experience with training people , The main point is too get more people training properly long term with sensible programmes , most people over a long training career will dabble/switch about at some point and that’s great , it’s not a contest , the key is to keep training and professing

Very much appreciate this. (1) thinking about this as a conversation is good; (2) no one's way is the only way; (3) people's goals and preferences are constantly changing.

Well said! I think a big part of the "discussion" is - what in the heck is powerbuilding and why do we even need another term? Does anyone walk around actually saying they are a Powerbuilder, or if someone at the gym asks what they are doing do they say "I'm not working out....I'm powerbuilding"? Unless you are competing, you are just working out. I guess you are free to call that whatever you want, but seems silly to me to even use that term.

Gotta say Alan, some great analogies in this video. Always liked your vids but watching your personal growth over the last few years has really been neat. Keep doing your thing bruthah :)

Another great video Alan, as an educator, I appreciate how you use your analogies to illustrate your points clearly

Great video, the thing is just lift how you want, but evaluate your goals & be honest with yourself, adjust your training accordingly just make sure you enjoy it.

Honestly , speaking to the general public. Any exercise is good exercise. The best exercise is the one you enjoy the most. However! The biggest problem with the fitness industry is that most trainers & fitness entities lie about the results that they could truly provide. Example: Zumba , Herba life, dr oz, athlean x, spinning, CrossFit, bootcamp, etc. That’s not even talking about the many other fitness influencers, mens health, etc. That’s why you get a lot of people who get discouraged, demotivated, and frustrated. It’s really up to us to change the fitness industry. Because it really is that bad.

As a random guy on the internet I'll share my thoughts. From what I have learned, if you want to get as big as possible, AND as jacked as possible, taking a phasic approach to training (alternating strength focussed and hypertrophy focussed training blocks) will be a little bit better for maximizing results . However, if you enjoy powerbuilding, do it, because if you enjoy your training you are more likely to stay consistent for years on end and end up jacked and strong.

I really hate that about old youtube. He is so right about Power Lifters - they always "prescribed" how to lift. I ended up with various injuries because of that, they were often dogmatic and had ZERO nuiance.

You're not late to the party..you just gave a reflective, well thought out, reasonable response..HOW FUCKING RARE!!..this is why people love your channel..

Great video as always. Also happy birthday brother

The gaming comparison was spot on, (especially as someone who loves lifting and gaming).

I love the death metal merch style. Do Not Move The Barbell.

Didn't expect a Narwuar reference there. Awesome vid my man. The general population is not out there to "optimize" anything. They just wanna get fitter than they are. From a lifter's perspective, It's easy to try and offer advice but in the process inadvertently piss on someone's parade.

I love Alan that Alan has entered the deep end of the home gym life. I know there are advantages and preferences on where to work out, but I remember Alan's video from 3 years ago about why he prefers commercial gyms and now I feel like Palpatine cackling

Exactly, for some reason people now are just over thinking/over complicating training. The whole fun part of it is the journey to find out what works for you . BTW, Thanks for the multiple tips on BBQ !! :)

Highly insightful and informative video. Great work! 🙏👍💪

I honestly dont see why there is such an overcomplication of the science behind working out nowadays

Me being a former powerlifter, managed to get into the "elite" category before army life, after half a decade in the army i come out with having broken my clavicle , knee injury , torn shoulder muscle that required surgery as well. Not to bad compared to some friends but after a year or two of rehab i realizing that powerlifting my old weights will not happen. Though being able to squat today 450 pounds and pull 500lbs deadlifts is probably my max before old age takes me , powerbuilding gives me motivation to keep training while still seeing progress outside the big 3. You do what works for you, life just happens and you'll have to adjust to it.

Alan u r spiritually advanced and I am healed in your presence. Thank you for your majesty, content, thought and genius.

This new-ish Alan Thrall era is the my favorite. Keep it up champ

I wish more people were like you Alan, using common sense. Keep up the good work.

I got back into lifting through you alan actually, i was running allot and doing strength training but numbers went up, discovered BOM and be following his style for awhile with alex and others and discovering my own path - put on some decent mass this year and i'm way happier, super interested in hypertrophy but still enjoy the big 3 but in more of bodybuilding style these days, works with my leverages and long limbs lol

Very well said. I remember as a youngster seeing the add in every comic book. The bad guy kicking sand in the face of the skinny guy... and after following the ATLAS training program the skinny guy showed up at the beach... Weight training... has been around forever. You were either sculpted and viewed as a circus freak or just a big corn fed giant. Gyms had weights barbells and dumbbells. But people did calisthenics and "exercises ". To stay "toned"... look good in a suit and tie. Don't look like "Grandpa " on the beach or at the pool. Look at the military fitness program. A combination of everything. Bodybuilding took a turn in the 70's.. Strongman around the same time when WSM competition aired on TV. But the debate as you so well stated has gone on and will go on. Free weights versus machines... and aerobics !! I think you summed it up best.... JUST DO SOMETHING ! run, walk, lift, calisthenics.... GET OFF THE COUCH AND EXCERCISE. WHEN YOU DO..TRAIN UNTAMED ! You will feel better, look better, sleep better... and just be better. Jack La Lane.. was the standard for getting up and getting "in shape ".

Very thoghtful and well-reasoned view, Alan.

You can get pretty strong on "bodybuilding" training. At my peak (20 years ago) mostly training 6-10 rep range, I was able to bench 375 for a single. probably could have done a little more weight but wasn't obsessed with one rep max. Back in the day most gym goers went for size and strength. It was mostly "bodybuilding" but we did max out on squats and bench from time to time.

I just learned more about barbecuing than I even knew existed lol! but seriously awesome vid!

Here because I love the nuance of this kind of discussion from Alan.

Alan you still smart as usual and informative since that video you posted on how to do romanian deadlifts

Sounds like it's time for Alan Thrall's Untamed Barbecue second channel to me!

So glad to hear you’re into bodybuilding (natural style). It was my first and only love in the gym. Only thing I gained from powerlifting and strongman was injuries. Never got injured doing bodybuilding aside from occasional mild tendinitis from fast pull ups or curls.

Great thoughts, and it definitely makes so much sense.

thank you for the levelheaded video Alan. and the oldschool hodgetwins reference. those are always good.

I'm impressed by your bbq knowledge!

You're first point is the most important. All fitness advice is contextual to some degree. Some people push their bodybuilding or powerlifting goals on individuals interested in fitness, and it ruins the experience for some. For example, I told an 80 year old training client of mine that he did not need to include triceps extensions and curls in his program, as he was just interested in general health. Bottom line, context is vital.

Great video. Only one thing I would personally add: Powerlifting and bodybuilding can and do go hand in hand. What doesn't get talked about nearly enough these days is Phase Potentiation. Powerlifters have hypertrophy phases and bodybuilders often have strength phases. The idea being that one phase will help potentiate the other. As a natural lifter, nothing helped me put on more size than getting stronger in the big 4 and then using that increased level of strength to push bigger loads with my bodybuilding work. Everyone these days talks about it being a "one or the other" and "them not belonging in the same sentence", but I think this is a narrow sighted perspective that leaves gains on the table. Put simply, ignoring strength work will hinder your ability to build muscle, but focusing solely on strength work will also hinder your ability to build muscle. Ya, I'm a fan of Powerbuilding, both as a singular focus, as well as a phased approach.

For a novice or beginner, trying to figure out bodybuilding programming is overwhelming. Powerlifting programming for a beginner centers around three movements and probably a handful of accessories (or maybe not). It also gives you a concrete goal - lift more. Bodybuilding or physique training is much more ambiguous - what are you trying to achieve? What's the best way to get there? It's not always as simple as gaining weight as progressively overloading a handful of lifts. It takes some programming knowledge, experience under the bar to understand effort/movement, and self awareness to push yourself day to day.

I think at this point, many content creators like NH just try to be controversial, for the algorithms sake. They tend to overanalyze and overthink certain topics, lay out pseudo-definitions, just to argue upon them in a straw-man type of monologue. Powerbuilding is a legit term, because it means you pursue strenght in the big compounds more than a conventional bodybuilder would probably do, but you also value isolation movements, mind-muscle-connection and a fun pump. If i talk to three guys in the gym and the first one says hes a BBer, the second one says hes a PLer, and the third calls himself a powerbuilder, i have a pretty destinct and distinguishable vision of what their training may look like, and what they goals are, and that alone makes "powerbuilding" a legit term. No need to make science about everything, just to circlejerk about it indefinitely, in order to create cheap, controversial content, only for the sake of it. Just do what you enjoy the most, dont let anyone tell you your sport of choice is not a real thing.

Love your more nuanced and mature perspective

A video on when enough is enough would be interesting. Been a subscriber for years, but missed it if you ever talked about it. I'm all for improving, but at some point, a person just isn't going to be able to lift any more weight. What's next after that? Maintenance mode? I dropped out of CrossFit, but I still think the principle is sound. I just try and do a wide range of stuff, from walking/running/biking, to body weight exercises, to lifting...and yoga. I've been lifting for probably about 7 years. I just feel like if I go any heavier, there is a potential injury on the horizon. Trying to avoid that.

If you are late to the debate, so am I. I saw some stuff about it yesterday and love that you are reacting to it, no matter "how late".

I've been subscribed for years, and this is the first video that has showed up in my feed for probably 2 years. When did Alan slim down?

I started working out consistently about 6 years ago. Ngl, I fucked around for the first couple of years. I gained a little. But it wasn’t crazy. After I learned the definitive difference between power lifting and bodybuilding, I started making strides. I’ve never had a coach or bought a plan. But I realized that focusing on one goal at a time can be a game changer. More importantly, if I take a few months to work on weak points and hypertrophy, that would make me feel better on my strength training. When I got back to strength training, I didn’t lose anything, just because I haven’t hit a one rep max deadlift in a while. And pushing up those strength numbers lets you do better hypertrophy work. I’m sure none of this is news to anyone. But knowing it and “feeling” it are just two different things that a lot of people don’t really understand.

I am so glad someone finally made this point- those who want to bodybuilders are always forgetting who they want to be, and turn into powerlifters. Powerlifters know who they are. This is probably also why we don’t see many impressive natural bodybuilders in the mainstream RU-vid space. Only recently have podcasts like Longevity Muscle come out and shed some light on natural bodybuilding. And thank god for that - because for someone who is natural and looking for aesthetic physiques that rival those on anabolics basically had no good models to look up to- it’s all just Powerlifters and powerbuilders everywhere. Bodybuilding is what most of us got into this for- and somewhere along the line everyone starting chasing the powerlifting carrot on a stick. 🥕

I think you can be a powerlifter, do something like 5x5 and include accesories that can give you a decent physqiue. Mehdi who basically popularized 5x5 through stronglifts has a great physique along with his strength. After 10 years of middling experience with the Gym, starting with my time in the military, I finally jumped into a consistent gym routine over the last year. I decided to start off with 5x5 to build back a base of strength and I assumed I''d 'naturally' get a physique; Was not the case. Ultimately I landed on Candito's 6 Month Beginner Program as it essentially was a Powerbuilding program. I can tell that it definetly works: To the end that I have a decent Beach body. However, do i look like Scott Herman? no, But do i have an otter bod, hell no. I have a decent base of strength, going from beginner level lifts to now intermediate in a year (partly due to muscle memory) Not to besmirch anyones opinion, but ultimately I believe if you know how programming can effect your outcomes, and you have some experience (even if it isnt what you wanted), you'll eventually build and understanding of how to mould and shape your own body.

Feels like Alan is making an Avengers cameo in the Noble Natties, couldn't be more for it

It’s dumb how some ppl say “there is no such thing as training for hypertrophy, only strength, because in both bodybuilding and powerlifting you’re trying to get strong.” Sure you’re trying to get strong in both sports, BUT in one you’re prioritizing strength over growth and in the other vice versa. It’s on a spectrum.

I enjoyed the video! What shoes do you use for deadlifts? Thanks

Amazing video. I think you captured the balanced perspective, just like Steve Shaw.

Steve Shaw popularized the term powerbuilding when he was still writing for magazines. He used it as a term meaning pursuit of strength and size, and the pursuit of getting strong on a many movements as possible. By that definition, a lot of hypertrophy focused lifters on RU-vid who have a heavy focus on aesthetics are powerbuilders, including Alex, BOM, and Hersovyac. By this definition, it's also very possible to accomplish both goals since the rep ranges you use for hypertrophy and strength overlap at the lower end of hypertrophy training. My other big issue with the takedown of powerlifting is the effect on beginners. Bodybuilding gets really complex and granular. Training someone to get strong on a bunch of compound exercises is much more straightforward and usually the way to go for beginners. I think a person needs a certain base before they can really even pursue bodybuilding, and that doesn't come from doing a bodybuilding program that is built for intermediate to advanced lifters. Most IFBB pro bodybuilders started out with the basics as well. CBum was a football player and did the usual high school weights program and got strong on a bunch of compound movements before transitioning into bodybuilding. You still see it in his training, he'll do deadlifts in the offseason even though they're not really necessary for him anymore. He still likes to lift heavy. Would anyone call Chris a powerbuilder? I don't think so. I train at a public gym, and I see far too many skinny teen kids who are obsessed with bodybuilding focusing their training on "finishing touch" movements, meaning structuring the training around isolation movements and having no concept of intensity. Bodybuilding is so popular right now, I think just as popular with Gen Z as powerlifting. A 5'10", 140 lb guy isn't going to get great results unless he knows how to push on compound movements. I'm not saying they should all do the big 3, but big compounds like those are easy to progress, teach coordination, and more importantly teach being able to handle feeling uncomfortable. Bodybuilding training is very uncomfortable, and very few regular gymgoers train close enough to failure. Having a strength training background and knowing how to push to a 1RM with good technique carries over very well to bodybuilding. I should know, I spent nearly the first 20 years of my lifting career chasing performance goals over aesthetics. I've spent the past 7 years with more of an aesthetic focus, but still like getting stronger (much like Alex and BOM). Am I wrong for this? My development is very similar to the rest of the natty RU-vid fitness crowd, so I guess I wasted my time building a base and falling in love with hard training.

wow thank you for letting us know, i too think you can enjoy bbq however you want. Good to know you're so passionate about it too

great video 👍🏻 😊

Before watching this video, or either of the two you are reacting to, I have a few thoughts. It depends very much on what you goals are and how far along that journey you are. Even if you have lofty goals of being competitive in both bodybuilding and powerlifting, for the first few years specialisation isn't that important. For someone at the stage of entering competitions then it makes sense to focus on preparing for the next competition. Also the training styles are far from mutually exclusive, if a competition isn't imminent then there is benefit from mixing in other types of training.

Great vid.

Learned more about barbecuing than I ever thought I would

Loved the hodge twins reference. Love those guys and miss their lifting videos.

Like everything social media touches, people will overcomplicate everything.

My man got bbq ribs on his mind

Awesome video

I believe one methodology can nicely complement the other. I'm a rugby player here in the U.K., I am a forward (think scrum for those who aren't too good with the sport) and so I need a range of physical qualities; absolute strength, explosive strength/power, strength endurance, speed, stamina and so on; it also is a requirement to carry a good amount of useable mass/muscle. For me, therefore, it makes sense to include the pure hypertrophy rep ranges in the off season to add as much useable mass as possible, but it also is in my best interest to cycle between phases where I may use fives for a bit of a blend of strength and hypertrophy, down to doubles and triples for power or absolute strength. This is the basic approach the Strength and Conditoning team use with us, at least. Where bodybuilding is concerned, I'm not an expert, but I can see the benefit of working in some lower rep range, heavy, heavy work here and there, I don't know. Either way, great video as always Alan.

The conversation continues!

Can't I just go to the gym and lift weights without worrying about what some influencer says?

Currently going through this struggle right now. About 3 years ago, I was benching around 350, deadlifting 650, had deadlifted 500 for 12 and squatting 500x5. Never competed in powerlifting a day in my life, I just did it because it was addicting. Fast forward to now, my child is almost 3 and I have far less time to dedicate to chasing numbers. I feel like a bum because I’m not where I was before, but I’m still trying to build muscle. Have been slowly transitioning away from solely doing competition lifts and their specific variations, to much more variation. It’s more relaxing, feels like less pressure (that I put on myself) and is much more enjoyable. Still trying to figure out a way to schedule my training though. I work 12 hour shifts and I’m up at 4am and usually get home around 7:30pm. Does anyone have any suggestions about how to structure/plan my training? Great video as always, Alan!

Yeah after you've been training a long time muscular gains are very slow and so I think it's impossible to stay motivated without tracking your numbers, you can still be in your hypertrophy rep range doing it. Honestly I think the lines are blurry between a powerbuilder and a bodybuilder making progress on your lifts produces hypertrophy. It's just if you want a good physique you have to do a greater variety than three lifts to develop one. So I pretty much set rep PRS on everything

Great video Alan! I have enjoyed the powerbuilding debate. The NH video that kicked it off with the ridiculous definition of a powerbuilder as someone who combines competition peak 1RM training with high rep pump training was interesting. The Contributions from Bald Omni Man, Basement Bodybuilding, and Massive Iron have been more informative. I will go back to Omar Isuf style powerbuilding while anxiously waiting for the launch of your BBQ channel.

Hodgetwins reference of yours made me smile gratefully for the fitness journey of mine and the fitness culture of past times. Thanks Alan, you were one of my inspirations when I started, matter fact, you still are.

Alan has been down a bbq rabbit hole

I forgot completely about NH until this lil cycle... And now i will work hard to forget him again... Those SUPER long self-righteous tirades are so silly

I disagree with powerlifting being a disgrace to strength training. People cherry pick the couple people capable of doing zero ROM benches and such but the vast majority of lifts in a meet you'd attend are more traditional/legitimate displays of strength. The exception doesn't make the rule.

Man, I’ve been away from the channel for a little (I was getting fat). You look great, way different, but great! & solid advice like I remember

I really want to delve into online bbq arguments now.

Do you still work with Barbell Medicine? I loved their Powerbuilding plans

1:44 hahahaha the reference to the Hodge Twins 😂