How about "the customization in T7 was better" then? :D We can't mix top/bottom parts of character outfits with other character outfits nor can we mix them with generic parts. That's like 80% of my T7 customizations. The other 20% was either using generic items that are not in the game (my fav large sunglasses are gone) and hairstyles that are ALSO unavailable (although a lot of them did show up as part of bonus season pass content) and so on. I kept having to delete Kazumi, Anna, Josie customizations to make room for new ones. I'm at 3 customs for Jun and I ran out of generic tops that I like.
he is sometimes right but he does have so many hottakes! like i remember that he said tekken teaching people how to play the game is bad cuz its a shortcut😅
@@dat1faclesdudei got love for frame whisperer but sometimes it feels like he’s jaded. i don’t blame him for how long he’s been playing and how much more he’s had to play since becoming a content creator, and dealing with all the shit we had to go through with T7
@@faisaalkamara4181he is jaded. T8 does has issues with balance, net code, and generally having too many busted options while also being a race to hits the mortal kombat trilogy max aggressor first. The last thing is only an issue if you played any other tekken where blocking meant something.
I mained Lei in T7 and Dragunov was my pocket character. Since my main is not here, the pick is obvious. Plus it does help that Dragunov's new design is so sick.
Doesn't change the fact that he's been a scrub crutch since his debut in T5 Dark Resurrection. Dude knows Sambo + Systema, yet depends on spammed, basic hits that sweep people up off the ground 🙄👎
@@TexasHollowEarth Never played anything before T7 so I have no idea. Not sure how's that even relevant tbh, at the end of T7 he was in a decent spot. A simple character that gets the job done with small set of solid tools which is ideal for a pocket character. Yes they could do more with his fighting style, but oh well. The added bonus for me that he doesn't spit out some cringe nonsense in intros/outros.
@@TexasHollowEarth Drag was known to be one of the most honest characters in T7, he had no gimmicks and he was unplayable garbage in DR. He is a better character now, but a scrub crutch? He is not Hwo, Yoshi or Xiaoyu. He has linear pressure and 50/50's, his gameplan does not revolve around pure knowledge checks and strings like the former. Scrubs like you shouldn't be talking about things you know don't understand.
@@cell4224 Hes currently a knowledge check character tho... only blocking wont really get you anywhere unless the dragunov decided to give you spacing.. and he also have mixup between mixup as well as string mix up as well... he is simply too much right now.. yes Dragunov in T7 is honest because movement is also better so avoiding him is easier compared to T8..
@1:20 I'm also gonna say it applies to the opposite end of the spectrum to players who purposely only play 'weak' (or perceived to be 'weak') characters. That way when they lose they can justify it with them feeling handicapped from the get go, or that it was the character's fault they lost and not their own. This also ties into what people call 'honest' Tekken to some degree.
I play King because I really like his character so much so that I started going to the gym to look more similar to King. Does that make me a waifu weeb?
Tekken 8 being stressful and fun at the same time is so true. Every time I end a session I think "Man that was exhausting, I can't wait to do it again tomorrow."
That venn diagram is class. I'm struggling to find a main in T8. With me I don't like to win cheap but all characters seem to have a bit of bullshit now.
If you don't like to "win cheap", then you shouldn't play Tekken. Tekken is all about finding a way to win cheap. Unless you're a pro player, you don't even need to really concern yourself too much with what is cheap or not. If my opponent dies to snake edge, that is their fault for not blocking it. If they don't duck the high, that's their fault.
the design space for Dragunov around WR2 was farily okay in previous tekkens, but now that doing an iWR2 requires absolutely no skill anymore, that design space has basically shrunk down to zero lmao. Since WR2 can blue spark, they can start by only making the blue spark version counter hit launch/chip on block
I really liked Dragunov at first because i liked his character and moves in general. He has exactly this cold and ruthless personality that translates even into his moves that i really liked, but then after that i took a look at Reia and she is basically Juri from SF so i had to start playing with her lmao
Fantastic video as always FW, I am enjoying the game as a contrarian Lars main since AK isn't here and won't be for a while. My main gripe atm is not only the top characters balancing but the ranked points system. For some reason you are allowed to lose consistent 400 points a match even if the person you verse is 4 ranks higher. I was Garyu on promo for Shinryu and they threw me a Rajin player who demolished me and took 400 points from me. Day before a mighty ruler I foolishly fought a whole set with got blown out 3-0 both matches to a dragunov. I have no problem losing and learning but the ranked system is unbalanced too lenient all the way to yellow then red it like gatekeeps you. Then if I beat someone 3-4 levels lower than me I only get 100 points. Someone my own rank it sometimes chooses 200 sometimes 400 sometimes nothing. ONTOP of all that there's tekken prowess. If the data exists to show someone is considerably more skilled at overall tekken than me is it truly fair to fight a 180,000+ prowess Garyu when I (at the time) was only 95,000 to then lose 400-800 points ?! Ranked system needs a look as much as the characters balancing TLDR.
Damn, I can't even play Reina without being accused of being anyone of those three categories lmao. Top tier video nontheless. Don't worry, I'll go back to being a Wrestling Mishima furry once AK is back, if he ever comes back.
I've actually kept a list of how many of my games were against victor/reina/dragunov/bryan and for 5/7 of the sessions I recorded (most of those between 2-4 hours of playtime) these four characters made up over half of my fights
missing miguel a lot and dragunov's kit has really been scratching that itch for me, sorry yall but he's fun as hell to play especially with the new hatchet kick He absolutely deserves nerfs though, especially to his combo damage
Although balance is important, the Namcops need to completely ignore the community. I've been playing casually since Tekken 6 and the community just loves to complain. People have hated Eddy for forever, for example, even though he's been close to bottom tier for a long time, but it doesn't stop people from complaining about him endlessly.
for anyone trying to deal with azucena WR 3,2 try to do a quick SSL and duck. you should evade it from mid-long range but still might get clipped if you’re not fast enough at short range
I don't care much for tiers. I play Jun because I played her in Tag 2 and she's my favourite character. I would have played her regardless if she wasn't as strong in Tekken 8 as she is. It makes me sad to think so many people, especially pro players, will probably drop her once she gets nerfed.
Need to add one more circle to the Venn diagram, "Curiosity cupcakes". People like me who play certain characters just for the sake of curiosity and flavor change. Some of these characters include Leo, Zafina, Shaheen and Raven etc.
As a fellow contrarian I haven't delved into this game yet. But if I'm glad characters i like aren't in the top. Nina, Steve, Lee, I also have a pocket Asuka and Paul. When I buy this game I'll probably add Raven and Shaheen to my roster. On balancing, I always say the best way to move forward is buffs and minor nerfs to the top tier characters. Frame please make the next video on what needs to be added or removed for each character.
Very disappointed in Namco for buffing Drag. I mained him in Tekken 7 for years and the only thing I really wished for was fixing his vertical hitboxes. They made him piss easy and strong but his hitboxes are still sometimes trash. And making iWR easy is probably the most outrageous change for me at least. I practiced that for years and now i get like 5 damage more as reward. Just stupid
I feel like Drag looks particularly amazing, he also checks off the box of cool dude character, for guys that only play cool dudes. (I'm sure JDCR is happy) In T7 his design and animations looked a little old compared to the characters added later, but now he looks so fricken badass. Reina is not an adequate Heihachi replacement. Specifically, I like that Heihachi is a mean buff old man. I want to be him when I'm old. Sucks he's dead, he was my favourite since picking up Tekken for the first time with 7. Eliza is probably never coming back, she was my weeb waifu choice. :( Haven't gotten the game yet, as I'm broke as fuck rn, but I'm not sure who I'll pick. I don't like strong characters myself either, but I get too depressed with super weak ones lol.
@@impressivestory if ppl like them its ok, but I dont like sticks (too imprecise on controller, dont wanna buy an arcade) and doing them on pad kinda hurts after a while. I dont play frequently enough to build up calluses xD
@@Merumya I play on arcade stick which makes motion controls a lot easier for me, but my brother plays on pad and usually beats me, so it doesn't really matter what you use it seems, comes down to skill in the end.
Same shit as season 1 in Tekken 7. Everyone will play Dragunov because he has the most straight forward and easy to see gameplan, even though he isn't REALLY that overpowered, then he will get murdered in the first major patch and be completely unviable for the next 6 years.
Mishima boy here, appologies for greasing up your chat w my sweat. Great chart through, def made me laugh. 👌Maybe simply buffing the weak characters is the direction Namco might want to go with rather than nerfing peoples loved characters?
Tbh I'm in a little Character Crisis for Tekken 8 atm, played most of the time Kuma (very fun and stupid), but Im very intrigued with Lars. A big improvement from Tekken 7, and he is very flashy! (Pun intended). And also I'm a Big Weeb, so ofc the Chart is accurate for me too😂
Hey Frame, I have pretty specific request which i would totally understand if you ignored it or didnt wanna do. The thing is I played you during a stream around 9-6 months ago on T7 I played Jin, it was at emperor rank against either Kasumi, Alisa, jack or lars? I got a very funny moment against you and it was one of my favourite Tekken moments ever. You egged me on to spam F4 and after I did you launched me, smiled to the camera and said "got you" and after I won you told me to stick that win where the light dont shine. We played on Abandoned Temple and my username was/is FWWREEZE(Nina T4 profile pic with lei in the background) if it somehow helps you remember what stream it was. I noticed you privated that video for copyright reasons, i was wondering if you could unprivate that stream so i could download that match. Again i dont expect a reply and will always like the content. I just had to ask in case because it was a really cool moment for me.
One way is to try to buff the weaker characters to make everyone feel strong. However it already feels like the super strong characters are too overwhelming so yeah... just nerf those fuckers :D
Jun isn’t broken in my opinion and as far has king goes he isn’t broken either it’s just the entire grab system is stronger, but that’s not directly on king..furthermore so many ppl complained about the difficulty of the game so they made things more accessible because greatful
Great observations re Namco's situation re balancing and their justifications, even if I feel Alisa might be top 10 😉 But you know there is a problem with it They have an easy AND very profitable way out of it they perfected in T7 and DBFZ - nerf top tiers and release the S tier DLCs. The biggest blob gets what they want and Namco can pretend they didn't know the character will be too strong even if it is a 100% lie like with Leroy. It wouldnt be their way out of it btw if it wasn't also the most profitable. Tekken is a corporate game, even if very good.
I still have no idea who to play. i usually just end up picking the worst character if i can't decide on anyone else, so i am strongly tempted just pick zafina at this point lol.
Frame back at it again with another abomination of a thumbnail. I do wonder how different the character usage data looks if you break it down by rank. I haven't gotten to play nearly as much as I'd like, and I'm only in green ranks, but I've barely run into any of those characters near the top so far. One Drag, no Reina, who I'm trying to learn, two Victors, some Kings, one Jin, and zero Devil Jin or Kazuya. Matter of fact, I haven't seen Kazuya at all when I watch other people play.
I want to know why do you think Reina is as strong as you say she is, I heard you say that she is very strong many times, but I think i never heard from you what is OP about her. I'm just curious because I play Reina and I agree that she isnt weak by any means, but what is difficult right now when you play vs Reina is lack of konwledge on her, how risky she is, especially when it comes to low attacks (yeah hellsweep is good, but there is no real mix after it hits and the dmg is below average for a launch punishable move, the only mix is at the wall when she has the range to do an unbreakable throw), her strings. She has and electric and I think its a very very strong move, but unlike heihachi, she dosnt have that many powerful mids. Her best mid is probably ff2 which is a hit confirmable heat engager. I'm genuinely curious about your opinion.
You can duck Azucena's WR3, 2. I watched Arslan VS Khan and he ducked and punished it every time, I watched a random Korean player play Azucena as well as Knee and they ran over people with that move. As usual one of many, many knowledge checks.
The chart he created was genius and spot on, but FrameWhisperer anti-Mishima takes are not only hella biased, but laughable: if the character archetype is so easy as he routinely claims, I'd like to get to know FrameWhisperer's *win rate* with *T7 Jin* and *T7 Devil Jin* compared to any other character he might have played in Tekken 7. (Also, the rank achievement compared to the number of matches played might provide valuable data as well.) The truth is: *numbers never lie,* and FrameWhisperer was never considerate enough to provide the numbers to back up his (flawed) theory. I bet my entire life savings that his win rate would be significantly lower than his other characters', whereas I got to play Noctis for 300~400 matches (TGOs included) and had a *nearly 90% win rate.* 💀 The only way to prove a claim is through numbers.
It's funny how Leroy is bottom 3 for least popular characters right now. Really shows at least to me that now that Leroy is actually pretty balanced people just don't think his gameplay is actually compelling.
At least Drag's wr2 can be stepped quite consistently. I can't step Azucena's wr3,2, or Victors wr2 and they are about as obnoxious. First thing I'd change about Sergei would be to delete db3+4. Or make it fucking steppable, feels like there are too many huge lows that track or are too hard to move around.
@@instawale1 You can't ssr against it. You can sidewalk right but it's tight even at a mere -1. It hits wide while having good range and is one of the most plus on hit lows in the game. I think it's too much.
this is my first tekken game, I knew from the moment I saw the zafina trailer I was going to only play zafina, I have been playing everyday since release and am in mid red ranks with her. As a new player I think she is super fun, switching betwen mantis and scarecrow with mixups is really satisfying, the fact that she is very strong in neutral is cool, she feels like she deals much less dmg than most charecters, self damage on azazel moves is way to high and a good fix would be to give her a lot of safe +on block moves so that she can recover her lost azazel health or give her healing / life steal mechanics, as a side effect of her very low popularity I feel like most players dont know shit about her moves so u can get away with a lot of dumb hellsweeps and launchers
@@bastinelli443 pretty sure im gona be purple rank in about a week or so, but as I said its probably because no one knows the matchup, I did also come from playing thousands of hours of For Honor so I do get basic fighting game things, but I guess you can keep the cope that tekken is impossibly hard
*First comment got censored. Is the tekken player base the most meta slaving of the fgc or is it just more obvious to see? Sf6 has Ken running around everywhere, but I think the T7 leroy tourney will live on in infamy. I do think the blame really comes down to the Devs and their bad balancing even late into a game's lifespan (sometimes intentionally for the sake of selling more DLC). T8 is still early, but I think the trend will continue for the paid characters at least; Dragunov and the rest of the base cast top tiers will probably be toned down. I'm just glad Yoshi is actually good and looks cool; can play in a non gimmicky way to get wins too. Too bad Soulcalibur had to die as Namco drained the last bit of blood from it's corpse to give T8 yoshi some good tools.
Those chemicals don't work for me anymore, I play Lili because she's cool even though I can barely hold my red rank, but Reina will get me God Of Destruction by pressing one of the punch buttons
These unoffical Character Usuage Graphs are fundimentally Flawed imo - They use the lowest rank at the 10K spot to work out how popular a Character is. The Higher the rank of the 10K spot is meant to indicate that more players must be playing. The funtimental flaw of this method is that weaker characters are going to of course have a lower "usage" stat because less players are going to be able to rank up vs an Easy mode get to intermidiate ranks for free character like Victor. A player might have only taken one day or two of usage to get Victor up to a decent rank, never touch him again and move on to someone else. In contrast someone else will stick with him and not play anyone else. Zafina and Alisa were my Team in Tag 2 so they my Main and Secondary. I have got Zaf to Mighty Ruler with a lot of Matches (I'm floating around the top 20 of Zafina Wins) - In contrast I got the Stronger Alisa to High Reds in hardly any matches at all.
sad what they did to my boy dag. reina for the sells and it works. fix victor and think he is ok. king is a GRAPPLER. jin....is jin. asuzena will gete nerfed and then people will reealize how busted some strings are. devil jin...braindead. kazuya seems fine. bryan no idea. jun annoying but people say she needs nerfs. yoshi seems good. skip. pauls seeems ok. lee seems strong. stevee no idea. lili is lili. lars no idea. law i think people need to explor more. alisa seems ok but i dont like the chainsaw stuff. asuka no idea. feng suuupeer annoying in heat. leo seems to be strong in the right hands. jack claudia beear nina no idea. raven i guess the shadows are cool and all but it feels like a lesser version of master raven. xiao shaheen no idea. leoroy cant even parry heeat. zafina i like her new moves but she is still annoying to fight for me but i believe you when you say she is weak now.
I said to myself if Anna Kuni or Zafina don't make it in, I'll play Jun cause I tested Asuka's moveset and it felt fine (I just hate Asuka's personality). I ended up playing Jun cause even I knew that I probably won't have much fun with how Zafina is right now. I'm not good enough to make her work. So I guess it's Jun until I get tired of her and switch to Azucena, they buff Zafina or Anna comes out (cause I'm not expecting Kuni anytime soon).
Bro, turning Drag's wr2 into a high is sacrilege. Nerf Drag's damage, don't remove what makes his playstyle unique. I was playing Drag when he was shit at the end of Tekken 7, I don't care if he is at an average power level, I just want his playstyle to be preserved.
That's fair, or make it so some moves he has advantage on block from go to neutral or disadvantage. A lot of numerical changes could be made to preserve playstyle.
As a Dragonov player since T6 i'm sad he's so OP rn cause it's just gonna be the launch of T7 again. Gonna be OP season 1 and then garbage until season 4 where they make him just ok. :(
“Balanced because hard” is like saying Fox in Melee is balanced because you get an arthritis debuff for maining him. Doesn’t change the fact that they dominate tournaments
