Imagine the scene after the battle, while the rest of Dany’s loyalists celebrate, the surviving squires bearing the lifeless body of Barristan the Bold through the streets of Meereen to the royal pyramid. 😢
Disagree on the Battle of Fire being a tactical blunder. Barristan’s plan is *bold* but it makes perfect sense. Time is working against Dany’s loyalists, between the internal political struggle and epidemic. Though diverse and divided, the Yunkai coalition still is intending on conquering Meereen. The longer the situation persists, the more likely the pro-slaver faction within the walls will betray the city to Yunkai. Barristan strikes in the brief interval where he can do so with some chance of success. That he will die in doing so and that ultimately Dany will need him more than the victory is a tragedy, but that’s out of his hands.
Also, the longer a siege goes on, the weaker his troops become. It's sometimes best to act decisively and soon rather than wait for a better opportunity that may never come.
I agree. I think Ser Barristan taking the chance to attack while there's the strongest possible chance of victory is a pretty good strategy, whether it costs him his life of not. After a lifetime as a Kingsguard, he's used to putting the lives of others before his own, and he's not a stupid man or a bad military tactician. His death in battle is a price he's willing to pay for overall victory, and will add to the bittersweet nature of that victory for any of us readers who have enjoyed him as a character.
Agreed. Ser Grandfather has waited long enough for battle. His plan was simple, for how complicated his army is. Everyone distract, as the Unsullied form. Destroy the siege engines, free the hostages, after they are Formed. A simple plan, but we know the Yunkai don't have a commander, let alone a plan. Will Ser Barristan die? I see it as possible, but I think he might be too valuable going forward, an eastern Onion, if you will. At this point, viewpoint characters need to simplify the story instead of making it more complicated. That's why we have Ser Davos. Marwyn isn't there yet, he may be a distraction, if Victarion blows the horn he has, he is dead, and Moqorro won't be able to do anything. Red priests probably couldn't override THAT. Ser Barristan needs to live, I think, until he can introduce Tyrion to Danny. I think Victarion is already dead, from his arm. And there is a huge difference between Ser Barristan's horn, and the dragon-horn horn of Victarion. I just realized, Victarion is Victorian! Computer put the two side-by-side! Hidden meaning, folks? Anyway, no way could the two horns be confused.
Also, don’t forget that the Volantene armada is en route to join the siege; I don’t recall if it was mentioned in any of the chapters for characters within Mereen, but I find it hard to believe that Barristan hadn’t at least heard rumors. Edit: According to the ASOIAF wiki: “In Meereen Skahaz mo Kandaq informs Ser Barristan Selmy that Volantis has launched its fleet against Daenerys Targaryen, and that Hizdahr zo Loraq means to open Meereen's gates for them.”
Something Im interested in seeing is Barristan's reaction to seeing Greyjoy ships randomly joining the battle on his side against the slavers. He wouldn't have been expecting any naval assistance but the fact that it's the Ironborn who are a social pariah back home will surely melt his brain
He actually makes that realization in his second sample chapter for Winds! I'd encourage reading a fan summary, he has some interesting thoughts as to who may have sent them.
I have always felt that Ser Barristan will win and survive the battle but in the chaos outside the walls he would catch the pale mare and die in the aftermath of what would debatably be his finest hour. Also it feels like a very GRRM thing to do to have this old warrior admired for his honour and skill not die in battle but meet an undignified end literally shitting himself to death.
I very much love that you parallel him with Criston Cole. This is one thing George does that many people don't pick up on, every later character he introduces serves as a foil or a parallel for another character in the timeline, and Criston and his fate serve well as a foil to Jaime, and any other kingsguard. Criston is more of an archetype than a character, so it works for pretty much any kingsguard or man who follows the warrior ethic of Westeros. The rigid nature of the vows, strength and prowess often falling victim to petty politics, etc
I really fear what GRRM might have planed concerning deaths in winds. Like the last book released such a long time ago, that it will feel very weird to actually see something new and unpredictable happen. I think when (if) it finally comes out there will be a lot of unhappy people because GRRM killed their favorite character.
Love that you pointed out the symbolism between him and Criston Cole. There is a lot of irony between Barriston and Jaime as well... The question remains, will he soil the white cloak or will it soil him?
I do agree that what we know of the Battle of Fire makes it look like Barry is about to die. But it would be interesting to have Barristan survive to learn about the existence of (f)Aegon, and have to make a choice between sticking with Dany or siding with the "rightful" king instead. Of course, this would only take place long in the future, towards the end of Winds or even the start of Dream, and I don't have an inkling what his role in the story could be until then.
If anything Barristan will be a bridge between Aegon and Dany. Both are Targaryen and both are rightful heirs to the Iron Throne, joining their claims is the only thing that makes any sense and neither are stupid or selfish.
Seeing Barry conflicted about his loyalties could be fun. You could work around the 4 POV's in Meereen by having him be gravely wounded (maybe by the dragons) during the battle, and leave the reader unsure whether he's gonna live. His POV disappears for awhile, and this leaves Tyrion to lie and manipulate himself into a position of power with the noble Ser Barristan (who knows Tyrion) out of the way. You could have a chapter later of Barristan having fever dreams with flashbacks that tell us some fun stuff about Rhaegar and Aerys, and then he suddenly wakes up. He'll see Tyrion has become an advisor to Dany, and Tyrion has told her about Aegon. So the preparations for the journey west have been made, and Barristan is then left feeling conflicted about his loyalties. He ultimately has to die though, there's too many POV's, so with Tyrion feeding Dany malevolent advice, Barry could be accused of some treason of sorts (maybe he discussed Aegon being the true heir with Tyrion, maybe he's caught trying to escape the city), and Barristan gets burned by an increasingly vengeful Dany and the Demon Monkey on her shoulder.
Barristen went to a whole nother contanet to support dany he is not just going to abandon her just cause some kid in westaros says he's Rhaegars son especially when it's likely Barristen saw the bodies of aegon and rhenys and would logically not believe he's the real thing if anything he's going to be integral to outing faegon as a blackfire.
It would be cool to watch Dany's decent to madness from his POV, as he can compare her with her father, so it would be fun watch him struggle with what to do. Also if he switches to Aegon's side, without him, Dany would be an invading foreigner woman with army of savages and eunuchs, and flying monsters, and an kinslaying imp as an advisor. She would have no legitimacy, while Aegon is a male, supported by local lords, has Targaryen crown, sword, has Selmy protecting him, has Varys and Illyrio backing him up, etc.
Keep dreaming, dany is never going mad, barristan is never joining with someone who claims that he is Aegon, and Daenerys is killing that lying fake ahh dragon
6:24 How dare you forget Merrett Frey, a character so smart his enormous brain gives him migraines all day. Also I'm surprised you didn't mention the theory that one of Dany's undying visions has a corpse of a man being dragged behind her horse Silver, you're meant to assume it was the wine seller from AGOT but it would be very GRRM for him to retroactively make it a foreshadowing of Barristan's fate.
The visions (in CoTK) are after the events with the wineseller (in aGoT) though, so I suspect the intention is to me more metaphorical. The corpse is specifically naked as was the wineseller (if it was meant to foreshadow Barry then white would be mentioned). I think it just means that death follows where Dany rides, she's leading a conquering horde etc etc
Given the heavy hints at fAegon being a Blackfyre and Ser Barristan's connection to the Blackfyres, I'd like to see Barristan live long enough to meet fAegon; face him on the field, etc...Also he's one of my favorite POVs so out of pure bias, I'd prefer him die in Westeros. I'd be so angry if it happened in Meereen; it'd feel completely pointless. PS- I think Shireen could be one of the first deaths we see in Winds because Mel will use her to resurrect Jon (that nightmare of a dragon eating her finally coming to pass). However, something that intrigues me about this is we're never told Thoros has to kill anyone to resurrect Beric; so maybe sacrificing Shireen to raise Jon won't actually be necessary but it'll happen anyway, making her death all the more tragic. Wouldn't it be interesting if Thoros went north like in the show and has a conversation with Mel (or anyone who tells him about Shireen's fate) and he reveals that killing Shireen didn't have to happen to save Jon; that Mel just uses more draconian methods than other red priests, etc? Regardless of the Shireen stuff, I think Melisandre and Thoros meeting is one of my most anticipated plot-points going forward. It's also kinda odd that Mel hasn't once reached out to Thoros since she's been in Westeros; but I digress.
A big theme of ASOIAF is people learning from either their mistakes or that of other's and either accept that they have to change or die, so maybe Barristan will survive but become a changed man.
It doesn't make storytelling sense for Barristan to travel all the way from Westeros to meet Dany just so that he can die before he even goes back to Westeros to help Dany take the throne. People may say 'it makes his story tragic'. Ok but it doesn't change or effect anything. The Red Wedding was not only tragic but it caused a major change and shift in the entire landscape of Westeros. Barristan dying doesn't accomplish anything besides 'oh he died helping Dany so sad'. And I just highly doubt George would have brought Barristan back into the story to help Dany if Barristan wasn't going to at the very least help Dany in Westeros which is where Barristan travelled from to help Dany.
My main thought contesting that would be that, if Martin's writing tended to work that way, Quentyn would still be alive. Personally I don't think he is, as I think Martin focuses more on logical cause and effect, in addition to solidifying characters' individual arcs without all needing to be linked to a main story.
@@QuinnTheGM TBF, Quentyn dying did lead to Doran's plan failing making it so he has to change his plans around even more (His success ratio for plans don't look that good tbh, they look closer to willy coyote trying various schemes and failing than the master tactician the fandom believes him to be), which further drives home the point of Dorne's story, that seeking revenge isn't always the best call and it might lead to things getting worse (Again, Doran and Dorne as a whole really, before had almost his whole family minus his sister, and thanks to his revenge he lost his brother, son, and is likely about to lose a few daughters due to them seeking revenge as well), and George also likes to foreshadow a LOT of things, the red wedding for example, for as shocking as it was in the moment, was foreshowed various times whether it be through prophecy, or through just showing Arya suddenly come by some Freys crying over something cause they wont be able to do something anymore cause plans have "changes" etc etc, and Barristan seems to be foreshadowed again and again as thinking along the lines of "Honor is the only thing that matters, Jamie sucks cause he should have let himself die to protect a king no one liked before doing something dishonorable, how come despite all my honor and unquestioning loyalty I'm not proud of myself for the kings I've protected" etc etc, so odds are, he'll have to come to realize the opposite of what Jamie learns, and realize that honor and loyalty and the right thing to do aren't always the same thing, and sometimes doing the dishonorable (As Jamie did) is the right thing (This of course assumes Dany goes mad queen tbf, and there are hints that Jon Connington might be the actual person who'll burn down kingslanding (Or least have a bigger hand on doing it than Dany), so if it goes THAT route, then Barristan's character will have to learn this some other way, maybe he gets back to Westeros safely, and somehow comes to contact with Jamie and he learns the truth and is told "Promise me if she goes mad, you'll do not the honorable thing, but the right thing"), but either way, George has said that while he likes to be unpredictable, he still wants it to both make sense in universe and thematic sense, and Barristan is being set up for learning a big theme somehow
I love the fact that you think the book will be finished eventually and we will get to read it 😂. Even if WoW is published, I cannot see how we will ever get a final book. And that is the greatest tragedy of all.
When I plugged the Winds of Winter algorithm into GPT4, it generated several chapters related to the siege of Mereen for the first ten chapters, so I definitely have to agree. I have them uploaded on my channel if you're curious.
Just starting video.Belated congrats on 100 and great job getting to 116. I seem to remember him having severaI moments where he looks back on his life. The tone is very "taking stock of your life" during his quiet reflection in Meereen. Barristan accepts the aging process and but doesn't want to leave any loose ends. He also feels some guilt over the Targaryens and for him, there would be no greater privilege for a KG knight to die on the field of honour. This is fitting for the vows a knight of the Kingsguard represents. The only question that remains is, how many foemen wil he get to slay while fulfilling this duty?
Congrats on the 100th video! You're easily my favorite ASOIAF RU-vidr (and I watch em all) and you deserve all of the success and channel growth that's certainly coming! Keep up the awesome work!
This is a great analysis. The Cristan Cole parallel is a good catch and as we know, nothing GRRM does is accidental. One thought that came up when you were pointing out all the possible role he could fill and which other characters could fill them, is that Ser Barristan has always been the ideal figure of a true knight and his era is over. He is leagues from home, trying to rule and train knights in the style of westerosi chivalry, which is so foreign to his people. He doesn't understand the culture he is living in and tries to rule on his own values as a knight rather than adapting to the new culture. I think he needed to go to Daenerys because she needed someone to remind her of home, someone to ground her to her ultimate goal of ruling westeros. But the world is changing; old beliefs and ways of life need to make room for this change. The Nights Watch allowed the free folk to pass through the wall, dragons and magic have returned. Barristan is just as much a symbol as he is a character, and his death would be a sign that old beliefs and ideals can't survive in this new era.
You can't compare him and Cole. Sir Barristan had so many things he has done throughout his life that are song worthy. Cole was lucky to even be a kings guard in my opinion
Oh I’m not saying he’s a bad person as Cole is, just that Martin is intentionally creating a parallel between Cole’s titles and the names of Barristan’s chapters.
@@ungabunga6699 Well those who know the material disagree. On the point of comparing him and Baristan at least. Cole was not even close to being the best Kings Guard
Great video. Congratulations on the 100th video! I think Barristan will die in the battle of slavers bay as well but it will be told in a far better way in the WoW than it was in the show.
Congratulations. Glad I found this channel. Something new and refreshing and keeps me from tearing my hair out waiting on that f*t f*ck to release TWOW
We know from GoT style that when you make mistakes you face consequences. Barristan makes tactical errors so he death seems likely. No matter what, when Dragons get loose a massacre will happen. Also congratulations on 100th video.
@@Austib_ Barristan was acting in Dany’s interest. Hizdahr would not be able to hold the city against an army 3x the size of their own like Barristan has
I really like your insights about a song of ice and fire. Congratulations for 100th video & expecting it reach to 1000th as well. One small request: (I have seen only show but i listen podcasts on ASOIF for long time) I really Love Ser Jorah Mormont. Can you give some insights on his character and your future theories on him. Thank you for your time. Congratulations once again.
Barriston's plan is rash and bold, and it would've failed if not for Tyrion, the dragons and Victarion. One small semi organized force would definitely lose to dozens of larger forces waiting for them. But Victarion is fucking insane and starts the battle as soon as he sees another person. Tyrion convinces a large force of sell swords to turn on the Yunkai. Rhaegal and Viserion burn a great number of Yunkish forces after being riled up by the battle. Barriston could easily still die in the fighting, but all signs point to an overwhelming victory for Mereen
Yes! Definitely, old Barristan is going to die, you kind of can feel it, especially when reading this passage in which he recalls his first battle and talks to his men. This POV kinds of summerizes his life. Nevertheless, I don't agree that his death will be insignificant and/or undignified as this was the case with Cristian Cole. I mean, Cole is supposed to combine the best and the worst features of Kingsguard. Barristan Selmy, on the other hand, is supposed to be the last of the greatest Kingsguards. I think Barristan will die either in the blaze of glory or die in the aftermath of the battle being betrayed by his 'supposed' allies. As for his story arc, him dying far from home, his character more than anyone else reminds me of christian crusaders back in the XI and XII century, those you went to the Holy Land, were fighting and dying in the land that was strange to them.
Its certain Victarion will not blow valyrian horn himself, he appointed three rowers to do that for him. You mention chapters to Winds of Winter, and yet you haven't mentioned that precedent.
Reason I didn't mention it is that it seems to be at least partially contradicted by the second Victarion sample chapter that we have reports of. Apparently he starts getting really weird and obsessive about the horn, and even considers blowing it himself. I could see it going either way, given that context.
The way the story goes it's pretty clear to me that Barristans forces will defeat the Yunkaii especially with Tyrion and Brown Ben switching sides. He could still die in the melee though. Another plausible option would be that he gets killed by the Ironborn who come in late and smash the battle-exhausted forces of Mereen just when they think they have won. Or he gets killed by a dragon who is under the influence of the horn
I believe Barriston unfortunately has to die in order to further the story because there is no way in hell Tyrion and Victarion would be let into Daenarys' camp if he was around.
Tyrion hasn't done anything to make himself untrustworthy to Barristen so I don't see why bed be wary of him , victarion on the other hand would have to really be convincing.
@@thatoneblackdude3333 For what the world knows Tyrion killed both his king and the king's hand and Barriston has very strict morals when it comes to that.
@@yggdrasil2 joffery wasn't his king and he has no reason to be upset over the death of the man who destroyed the family he swore to protect and had children butchered, berristens honor to Robert is the only thing that kept him around but now he has no obligation to the lannasters, he might be skeptical of tyrion definitely but beyond that I don't think he'd reject his wisdom I mean berrisen is already around questionable people I do see why tyrion will make a difference.
@@yggdrasil2 yes which is why I said he'd be skeptical and keep an eye on tyrion but regardless of how morally dubious he might be berristens knows tyrion would be useful to Dany if he was truly unable to tolerate people like him why does he allow dany to surround herself with morality dubious people already?
Love your vids and keeping the fire/hype about Asoiaf for the youtube community, to be honest winds will be my last asoiaf book , George takes much too time between each book so im not eager to wait another 9,10 or 11 years for a dream of spring and that is if that book ever get released , so like i said winds will be my last George and asoiaf book but im really hyped to know what this book have in store for my 4 favs chars (stannis/jon/bran/dany) specially jon resurrection and the resolution about the pink letter and if stannis is alive or will remain alive after this book , greetings from argentina dude ,after coming from work is a ritual for me to check your asoiaf vids
Agree with Barristan’s attack outside the walls being a blunder. The coup against Hizdar was the wrong move, and it’s likely Skahaz who is the real threat in Mereen. Maybe Barristan will be betrayed at the walls upon his retreat, dying unceremoniously in the manner of Ser Criston (the only other kingsguard/queensguard to hold the office of the Hand). But it could also be sick if Barristan ends up AWOL to join Young Griff’s and face Danny’s vengeance later in the second dance of dragons…?
There is one piece of this you are forgetting, though. Tyrion has a prophetic dream of fighting beside Barristan the Bold and Bittersteel in Westeros with dragons overhead. I personally think Dany and fAegon will conquer Westeros together, but then their relationship sours. I think Varys will likely be the betrayal for blood, as I think he will join fAegon’s kingsguard thinking he is the lawful heir as Rhaegar’s son. He’d then likely die in whatever war ensues between Dany and fAegon.
3:54 I think part of his thinking is that he’s damned either way. Slow death starving or getting sick inevitably crippling the defense of the city, or gamble it all on an up front throw down. Given his character, it makes sense for him to choose option b
Barristan's death will be final push for Dany towards "villainy". He's the only man around her who is loyal, honorable and is a decent human being (other one being Strong Belwas, of course). On other hand, Dany seems ready to accept Targaryen and (possibly) Dothraki way - both of which are legendary for their level of violence. Second, without him around, she will be surrounded with scheming Meereenese noblemen, non-trustworthy bloodthirsty mercenaries and also Tyrion and Victarion, two extremely hateful individuals and by all means worst possible advisors at this point. And let's not even mention Moqorro and his Red God shenanigans, and also Marwyn who's motivations still aren't clear. She is a powder keg waiting to explode. In the end, Others might actually be only salvation for Westeros.
You could be right, it's extremely plausible. In my opinion of this character, it honestly wouldn't take much, she has been entitled from the start, justifying everything in the light of her right to the throne and hatred of the usupers.
Are you saying that DAny is the real villain of the story and the others are there to save Westeros from her ? LOL Targaryens are cruel ? Lol you haven’t read House stark history , you have no idea how cruel they were.
Unfortunately Barristan is certainly on borrowed time. He’s 64 years old, his prime was nearly have a lifetime ago. Now he’s in a place strange & unknown to him.
There is one narrative reason I've heard for Barristan's survival long enough to return to Westeros: Young Griff Given that he joined Dany trying to serve the rightful heir to the Iron Throne, his otherwise impeccable loyalty may falter if he should learn of someone with a supposedly better claim
Aeron's fucking toast, Victarion too I think, and probably Hotah. I agree Barristan will die, but I think it will be after the battle, and the Shavepate will betray him.
Barristan is also one the more honourable people in Dany's camp. If she is going to give into Fire & Blood, it makes sense for her to have lost her 'honourable white knight'
Him attacking disjointed and I’ll lead enemies through sallies is not unnecessary but the heart of siege warfare. It’s keep to put pressure upon the besiegers and from what I recall reading, proving incredibly effective
“Mens LIVES have meaning, not their Deaths. …No One is like to remember any of us for long…” Wait. Who’s likely to remember any of you for long, Drink? No One.
I hate the idea of some pit fighters taking out barristan the bold, but it makes too much sense. I think marwin is a red herring and will never reach Dany.
You make a lot of good points except that Tyrion is no way the smartest character in our story. I find it kinda funny how Martin tricked most of the community into believing that Tyrion is the smartest guy on the block even though he is also used as a pawn throughout most of the story xD
I find it weird how many people seem to think Barristen is incapable or stupid? He's commanded a ton of different battles from skirmishes to raids to sieges snd pitched battles. He's the most experienced POV for commanding battles there ism
Something that def makes me think Selmy isnt making it is if were gonna get a redeemed Jaimie being the Captain of eitherv Dany or Jons Kingsguard then Selmy cant be around
Aeron damphair is a very good candidate but the problem is George tends to space out the pov chapters very far when they're not of the big three and aeron is not even close to the big three, so there'll probably be 100 or so pages between his chapter thats already been released and his next chapter.
I haven't gotten to dance yet, but I've watched a shit ton videos, but what are your opinions on barriston surviving the battle of fire and sailing with dany to westeros to face the dilemma of staying loyal to dany or switching to young griffs side bring rhaegars supposed son and heir and being one of the people who betrays dany? Also, I think daario is gonna kick the bucket in the next book
I think it makes sense from his perspective as the longer he waits the less men he'll have left as the disease will whittle them down and he has no idea anyone is coming to help. I do agree trusting the Pit Fighters is a mistake though and shows his ignorance of the local customs and culture
I think the likely POV deaths are; • Barristan (for everything laid out here) • Aeron (Euron will probably sacrifice him last to summon the Krakens) • JonCon (The greyscale will kill him before Dany does, but not before he and fAegon learn the truth) • Areo (yeah, Dorne's too much of a shitstorm as is, I don't see him living much longer, especially if Arianne's ambitions clash with Doran's)
It has to be a better death than the show version, losing to a bunch of punk-ass harpies. The Blackfish was also killed off on the show and then Stannis. I hope they all survive as long as possible.
Idk if you’ve spoken at length about this but what do you think will happen with Sandor Clegane? I remember you said cleganebowl was a no go but do you think he’ll just live out his life as the gravedigger? Will he appear again?
I hate to think that Barristan will be the first casualty in WoW, because it always reminds me to the horrible scene from the series.... :D GRRM really likes to adapt real historical events, maybe Barristan will die after the battle, because of the spreading disease. In 1456 John Hunyadi defeated the Ottoman army in the siege of Belgrade, but he died soon in the plague caused by the thousands of corpses. But to be honest I'd like to see Barristan dueling with Darkstar(wild theory, but maybe Dayne will join to team Faegon), or figuring out with Danny and Tyrion that Aegon is actually Faegon.
First of all, I'm only sad because you arguments make too much sense. I love this character after all.😢 However, I only wish that If Barristan is to die in the Winds of Winter, that his death come in his own terms, "on blaze of glory" if you will. To me would be so poigant for the Bold to die for a cause of his own choosing... Let Westeros know nothing of the ending of Barristan the man; Barristan the Grandfather knight. But let the easter world sang the Tale of the Kight who rode upon the pale mare and broke the slavers' siege. Great video, as always! To a 100 more!
Well, if The Foresaken chapter is the beginning of the book we can assume that Aeron "Damphair" Greyjoy and Eurons "salt wife" are going to die being tied to the front of his ship and all.
I don't really agree with your comparison with Criston Cole. I think the whole arc of Ser barristan was to reach a balance or middle ground of some sort, not being a simple, blindly obeying knight whilst also avoiding becoming an egotistical schemer like previous kingsguards. In the end he learns that the most honorable thing to do is more complex than simply fallowing orders or oaths, and that in fact that mindset can lead to the exact opposite results. Hes now deboted to what he truly feels is the right and altruistic choice, even if some dishonesty is requiered, not at all like Criston.
