I’m a long time publisher, and have had a number of authors who’ve gone off the rails like George, bitten off too much and then can’t finish. I think he needs a co-author. Elio and Linda might be acceptable to him. They structure the story, make decisions that George can’t or won’t, but don’t actually write chapters. They just push him forward. I suspect his problem is that he’s now done the easy stuff - written the chapters where he knew what was happening. The problem then isn’t time, it’s decisions. And decisions can be delayed forever. I’d recommend that, and/or serialise Winds. The fandom goes crazy over a single chapter. Release a chapter a month. He probably has 40 chapters complete. That keeps his 10,000 biggest fans happy for 3+ years and the drip drip pressure of knowing he only has to finish a chapter a month might push him onto completing the book before those 40 months have passed. I doubt it’d even diminish book sales.
Even if he has 30 linear - or close enough to linear - it’d work. I suspect it’s more an excuse than a reason for not releasing more chapters. That’s exactly the type of reasons-why-not he (and his publisher) needs to get past. Again, a relatively common author issue. George is unique to us, but he’s not unique. Biographers have his problems quite often - the tale grows in the telling.
One thing I will point out. Here in the UK A Storm Of Swords was released as two books because it was so big, Part 1 and Part 2. In Part 2 every 50 pages was big events. Red Wedding, Purple Wedding, Several attacks on the wall, Tyrion's Trial etc etc. A lot of stuff was wrapped up and the events is very dense. Winds Of Winter could be similar.
Yeah I think we are underestimating George. He could surprise us and kill off important characters. We assume that the "good ones" are eventually going to converge in Winterfell and the bad ones are gonna start dying and shit, but honestly it could be completely different and it could still make sense lore wise and character arc wise. It doesn't have to be like we think it's gonna be. As long as George sets his mind to it then it could be done.
@@JLchevz one Theon chapter of Stannis fighting winterfell could resolve that. Mareen, Barriston/Victarion/Tyrion and that could be done. That story I think it doesn't work for Dani and she's forced out. So for Westeros she learns she can't conquer and expect them to love her. She needs to get them to want her. We could have a 2 parter where the second is key events.
Im pretty sure George himself said a few years ago that winds will be expansive in the vein of feast and dance. So yeah, expect yet another book filled with countless set ups and no pay offs.
That's not really true in regards to George, some of his other books have amazing endings, it's just ASOIAF is so sprawling it's like, 100x more difficult toe nd
I truly think GRRM could come up with the perfect ending that satisfies all the promises he's made while still expanding the story as much as he likes... if he had enough time. He just doesn't. He's gonna die in probably 10 years or less. Hopefully he can at least finish TWOW in a few more years
@@heythere9371 It is not about time, he has the time. If he actually has a decade he could write 3 books if he has the desire to, in fact, that's precisely what he did for Game of Thrones, Clash of Kings and Storm of Swords. Really he wrote Clash of Kings and Storm of Swords in 4 YEARS and they are MASSIVE BOOKS. It is not about his ability to write this much content, he DOES NOT WANT TO! He lacks productivity and ambition, he DOES NOT WANT TO FINISH IT. Or he has lost his passion for it. Regardless we are screwed not because GRRM cannot write it but because he has abandoned it.
It’s the reason why we can still talk lore 12 years later and say “holy shit I had no idea! That’s crazy!” I have conversations everyday with a friend. It’s a real world.
I do hope he does some significant cast burning in WoW so that whatever notes for Dream of Spring that leak out after he dies are coherent enough to paint a picture for us
realistically i doubt there will be that many deaths in WOW. Jon , sansa , arya , bran , stannis , cersei , jamie , tyrion , varys , littlefinger , faegon, danaerys will all be alive by ados . I think euron might survive past winds , theon prolly will . maybe the tyrells and martells will die
I dont think that's much of a question. No one thinks ADOS is coming out, unless GRRM massively increases his rate of pages per year, or he lives to be like 110 years old and sharp minded the entire time
We’re more likely to get visited by aliens than ADoS ever coming out, that includes after George dies because he says he doesn’t want anyone else to finish his story
It seems mentioning Chroyane or The Sorrows wasn't needed but it does have a big part to play, mostly because it explains where all the stone men are left, and what happened to Tyrion who passed through on the boat. and how Jon Connington gets greyscale, which will be a massive impact later on as he's now in Westeros. Its weird that he's got greyscale and there's a reason why. It also gives us an understanding of the background, such as what happened there long ago at the spice wars.
The most mind boggling thing is him still wanting to finish in 2 books idk how he thinks thats possible the stage he has set is like a 12 book series now
I'd add there is one major aspect simmilar to one you described that should be counted. Original ASOIAF plan was trilogy very different from what we get, but later plan like alpha of this saga was two trilogies with 5 year gap between them. GAP between SoS and DwD. And we can see that GRRM was kinda putting our young heroes in places where they could spend 5 years in training, growing, to jump easily - Bran crossed the Wall to find 3 eye raven, Sansa become Littlefinger protege, Arya moved to Braavos, Jon become Lord Commander, Dany decided to stay in Meereen, and so on and so on. But there were important fiddly bits despite it that would make GRRM plan very hard - Stannis would definitely not stay on Wall 5 years waiting for Boltons to died on their own, King's Landing was left in great mess so did Riverlands. That would make explaining all those things AFTER gap extremely hard. On the other hand - without gap he has problem with kid heroes that should become young adults by Westeros standards - so he tried to fill the gap, and this just was too much. CoK and SoS together was less than a year (in fact I think GRRM was pushing things too fast, medieval wars were usually slow, grinding endeavours - he could totally for instance make realistic long sieges instead of unrealistic successful storming after storming and allow political situation to stagnate for months - and timeline to progress SLOWLY with simmilar ammount of chapters and bigger gaps) - and here he had gap of 5 years. It was doomed to collapse.
The fact that the Lannisters won the war in under a year was insane. Compared with how long the Wars of the Roses lasted, it just doesn't seem right. Especially with Westeros larger than South America.
I don't think that was the problem. Theon was the one POV introduced us to the Iron Islands in ACOK. But with Winds, George now has to deal with Areo, Arianne, (formerly Arys), (formerly Quentyn) for Dorne; Asha, Victarion, Aeron for the Iron Islands. I know many of them have been killed or moved off, but seriously, adding 6 new POVs just for Dorne and the Islands again, this gardener is a fool
Given that we know the story and characters have evolved in so many ways over the years and the song has become so much more than the author originally intended; why can't the idea of only having two more books to complete the story also be revised? I'm not so desperate to see the conclusion as I am to see further chapters and development. I really think setting this arbitary deadline has created the problem of trying to conclude everything all at once, when, in reality, there are so many disparate stories, it doesn't even make sense for them all to directly collide. The potential war between Aegon and Dany could fill a few books alone
Why would a gardener ever be stuck? George has been at 75% of the book for nine months. That should mean that he's completed the chapters for 15 of his 20 POVs. Since Lady Stoneheart is not given any chapters that leaves 4. Who might they be? Davos, Bran, Jon (mostly as Azor Ahai, Reborn) and Daenerys. Since George has not come out and said so, I can only speculate. George has told us the he came to the last POV for one book and had to rewrite the entire book. Here's hoping that won't happen with this book that has already been delayed so long.
@chogboogus Honestly this is the first I've heard it. But I kinda turned my back on this series out of frustration since like 2014. It's a love/ hate relationship at this point but that love part has me watching asoiaf vids lately
It would hilarious if he finished the books but they are loaded with oddities like mixed up characters. Tyrion Giants Bane (brother of the Kingsguard) Daenerys Lannister (Sister to Jamie the Oath Keeper) Brienne Stark (Of Dorne in the Westerlands) Jon Rivers (a Faceless Man of Asshai North of the Wall) Melisandre (The Mother of Dragons)
I think Preston is way off in the wrong direction, TWOW isn't going to be about expanding the storyline - it's about converging it. Preston isn't really thinking like a writer, you have to look at the story as a whole. AFFC was a midpoint book so it made sense that the story was still growing. TWOW is going to take us to right before the climax, so the story will be contracting. That means less POVs, not more. Some of this will come from characters dying, but others will be from characters meeting and arcs converging; many POVs were introduced so the reader could watch the story play out in a place we had no existing POVs in. I think Preston has become so bitter that he interprets every decision by GRRM in the most uncharitable and unreasonable way. It's almost insulting to GRRM's intelligence to suggest that he is so unaware of the mechanics of his story that he would start introducing new POVs and arcs at this stage. It's also quite uninformed since GRRM confirmed a while ago that he would not be introducing new POVs (barring the prologue).
Dude, he is not saying WHAT George should do, he is analyzing what he did before and is forecasting what may actually happen if the book comes out. It is logical for George to wrap up loose ends, but he explains that it is taking him so long because he literally does not know how to wrap it all up, Books 4-5 are smell of being unfinished as each lacks climax and he added more storylines into them. He predicts that is the reason our author is struggling and if the book comes out it will reflect him not being able to overcome this struggle and not have enough loose ends wrapped up anyway
I am really praying GRRM is pulling off a massive surprise for all of we cynics. Hoping he's writing the whole thing and lying to us before he dies. Posthumously published. It's my only faith in getting to the end...
The first 3 books are so amazing to read but once you get to Feast it feels like he went full scatterbrain. He just started a million random plot lines that are in my opinion very uninteresting compared to the first 3 books which were much tighter.
I was thinking the same thing. Alaras who? Why is he introduced 5 books in and what's his role in the story? Faegon and Jon Con?! Cmon, George, you pulled these two outta your a** 😂😂
For the book to be called “winds of winter” I feel like it has a lot to cover to get up to when the white walkers come south and the long night begins? I think another book between Dance and Winds would make the most sense. Meaning there is 3 books left not 2. Which could grow even further by the time book 6 is finished.
I really hope Preston doesn’t mess up Jon’s story just to be “edgy”. It’s literally my favorite story in the whole series but I can tell Preston either hates Jon or hates what Jon stands for in the story and is going to write him off in some stupid way just to be different.
He’s the classic reluctant good guy fantasy hero. If ASOIAF was any other fantasy story he would be the only POV or the most important of only a couple. He’s someone anybody who loves their family and just wants to do the right thing can relate to. IMO in the real world most people are like that but in Westeros there’s not many which makes him special in a way that his heritage and rank can’t. I personally think he’s the beating heart of the story and would love for him to lead the charge in the fight against winter both politically and on the battlefield. I’m not naive enough to think anyone in the story will get a completely happy ending but if anyone deserved it it’s Jon Snow. I would love to see him fight for Sansa, Danny, Faegon or even the others if he felt he had to. I wouldn’t mind if his story is about how a good person can go “bad” and have him turn selfish and take winterfell or the iron throne for himself becoming a true cold hearted king of winter like the Starks of old. Just don’t kill him. I had to read about Ned dying which broke my heart then the red wedding smashed it into pieces they can’t take my boy Jon too lol. Preston has said multiple times he sees Jon as the bathroom symbol for a mens restroom and while I understand what he means I find that such a gross simplification of Jon’s character it’s almost ridiculous. There are so many paths you could go with Jon’s character you would be lying to say his story is “boring” or “predictable” which is what most haters say including Preston. Jon is needed not to be a leader (though he could and probably should be) but to unite the people who hate each other because Jon can almost always find common ground with someone which is a super rare trait in Westeros. I mean I could go on and on but I feel like I’m just saying the same thing in different ways lol. Thanks for asking though I love talking ASOIAF. What do you think of Jon? Do you think my reasons are stupid?
I think I over estimated him and I dedicated a lot of my time to those books and youtube to understand more and it's frankly an insult for him to be annoyed at us.
You hear he is a gardner a thousand times well maybe thats all he knows what to do is grow stuff not resolve anything.I assumed HOT D was done, Dunkin Egg. I saw if he was writing tjust wo paraghs a day or something he would be done with Winds of winter.
I genuinely don't understand the take that winds of winter won't release. We know for a fact he has worked on it. We know that alot of effort has gone into not only this single book but the entire series. Maybe dream of spring won't come out but winds 100% will
Yeah people are switching lanes fast it used to be “well he will never write WoW” then “he will never finish it” then “we will get WoW but not DoS” then it seems to be coming to “he will never fit everything into two books” It’s funny ti see iver the years how the fandom switches and always finds the ways to be harsh under the mask of “i’m just being realistic”
0% chance George releases Winds. If it ever comes out, it will be like Christopher Tolkien compiling his dad’s notes for a (sort of) narrative. He’s just lost.
@@title4445 lmfao. People be wilding if you think that's the case. He's already said he doesn't want some one else to finish it. He has come out recently talking about his progress on the book
It comes down to George's priorities. He has prioritized writing spinoff shows for hbo rather than continuing to work on his magna opus. He isn't distracted by these other projects. He has prioritized them above ASOIF. I do agree that he has made his story bigger than it needed to be, but! To put it simply I think it's his greed. He can make more more money more easily selling shows to HBO. He could make ASOIF a series that contains ten books. Why is he constraining himself to two more books? Because he simply doesnt care about anymore. My opinion is that the main reason he hasn't progressed the story has nothing to do with the story itself. It has to do with real world things. His greed is why we dont have more ASOIF and ultimately why GoT ended so disappointingly.
I don't think it's greed. Listen to GGRM or even read his books and you'll see he's a very sensitive person. He deletes entire chapters if he gets self conscious about them. He has a lot of empathy and he knows millions of people are going to be disappointed if he messes up the final books. So he prioritizes less stressful things like HBO shows (which don't effect his magnum opus). I'm not saying that's a positive trait but it seems more likely he's afraid of ruining the series with a bad ending so he's avoiding it.
It's basic procrastination. He's stuck, he's written himself into a massive hole and it's a depressing struggle to make any progress. If he's doing something else he can feel like he's productive and just put Winds into the back of his mind. It's not about money like he could just finish it if focused on it, if he had not worked on anything else apart of Winds I think we'd be in pretty much the same spot, just with no F&B, no TWOIAF. It would have a drastic affect on his mental health, he probably have just stopped writing anything.
way back when the tv series surpassed him I felt it was pretty obvious that he would never be able to finish the books. He allowed D&D to destroy his baby.
That’s funny because Tolkien didn’t finish his work either. His son had to put together, and in some cases create new material, to publish The Silmarillion.
@@disgruntleddude6105 Martin has published much more than Tolkien has. And the Silmarillion WAS Tolkien’s mainline work. He wrote Lord of the Rings because he couldn’t get someone to publish the Silmarillion. Which he never finished.
c'moooooon. tyrion is one of the most interesting povs.if he dies before the ending i'll die inside. many ppl complain about his dance chapters, but i think his slavery time should've lasted longer. it would've been some of the best character development i've read. this way it feels somewhat unrealistic, just like most things in Essos. george isn't the best at depicting foreign cultures, even through western eyes. the slavery chapters are still fab ,just like everything lannister related. they behave like real ppl. CHARACTER PSYCHOLOGY IS WHERE GRRM SHINES AND COMPLICATED FAMILY DINAMICS ARE HIS SPECIALITY . I'M aware that it's her story, but ,imo, daenerys after AGOT is the most useless pov. she feels way too perfect to be likable. somehow she manages to be the savior and a girl next door at the same time,as well as a wise politician and humanist ,all at the age of 16.
When will people realise that George doesnt give a phuck about winds anymore. It was probably scrapped years ago with no progress besides the samples. All of his attention is on the spin off shows, hes always wanted to work in television but wrote books because he couldn’t. Now that he can you think hes gonna just turn it down. The money, the fame, the attention, the much easier work, the opportunity to just sit on his a*s all day? Nah. He only continues to lie and lie and lie about winds being worked on so the fandom can stay interested in westeros in hopes that, that interest would transfer to the spin offs. Hes given hints of this for years, his constant contradictions with the books progress, countless failed deadlines and bitter attitude towards his fans and praise for hbo and the access media. He hates his fans, doesn’t care about his story or legacy and wants to spend the rest of his days larping as a studio big wig. Thats your king…. Stop being blinded by his writing and see him for who he really is. Whens the last time he’s even said anything positive about his readers? Has he ever? Every chance he gets to talk to or about the fandom its ALWAYS negativity and always passive aggressive in tone.
I can't imagine being so arrogant as to think, if I find this hard, GRRM can't do it. Reducing books to "a number of pages" is ludicrous. I can never figure out why anyone listens to this guy.
Preston says a lot of dubious things (like saying based on pagecount GRRM must not have been writing during the show even though we know ADWD would go down in pagecount in some years), but GRRM's inability to finish the story is something he's been demonstrating for years without Preston's help.
