I really enjoy your channel, and I have to emphasize that the part I enjoy most is where you say that you don't take any money from the game companies. Your independence adds so much credibility to your work. Thank you, sincerely.
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-So you got a new board game for me? -Yes sir I do! It's called Primal: The Awakening and it's a boss battler inspired by a videogame called Monster Hunter. -Sounds like we'll be competing against other titles like KDM. What will make this title standout? -For starters the setup is super easy, barely an inconvenience! -I'm already sold! What else has it going on? -Well, players will primarily be constructing decks to create combos of abilities and deal damage to the monster. -And tell me about these monsters, is there variety? -Oh boy, is there?! Just in the prototype box we'll have a fire breathing wryven and a stone headed lizard-bull thing! -Stone headed lizard-bull things are tight! -Yes sir, they are! But there's also variety in the way they play, from different strengths and weaknesses to their behavior decks and stances. -So we'll be playing as hunters? What do they have going on? -We got a sword and shield guy, a hammer guy, a great sword guy, and a bow and arrow gal! And all their weapons are crazily, unreasonably massive! Just like the in the videogame! -Woah! Woah! Woah! But wait, will we have to worry about any legal stuff? -I figure if we are clear about the inspiration we won't have anything to worry about. -Fair enough! -Well sir, what do you think? -Sounds like we got the recipe for a great game but just to make sure it sells I want you to really make those minis absolutely irresistible. -Isn't great gameplay enough? -Not on Kickstarter it isn't! Which is how we're going to fund this. And really lean into that FOMO feeling by adding a lot of cool extra stuff! Insert image of all in pledge cost and extras here.
- Can you make a Pitch Meeting about a board game? - Yes sir I can. - Oh really? - Yeah it's super easy, barely an inconvenience! All I have to do is follow a set formula that I repeat every time and just change the words and background a bit. And I'd appreciate it if you got up off my back about it. - Oh well okay then I get off that thing! :D
@@TheKingofAverage You seemed to like the board a lot. However I'm not sure I'm sold on it quite yet. It looks like (and of course I haven't played it) you're just fighting a statue on a lazy susan. Do you think there's enough there to keep it engaging for a lot of games? Also what do you think if they added one or two outer circles. You could have bonuses for the different hunters based on range, for example the bow and arrow gal could have damage bonuses if in the middle circle. The hammer guy could have a momentum system, running in and doing crit or stun damage if charging in from the third circle. Also the monster could flee from danger or lunge at hunters for attacks. I am still interested but the board is my only concern, but what do you think?
thanks for your huge, clear, transparent and honest review here. I already loved it for Stormsunder. great work which you provide for your community - definetely to be supported.
I have a bunch of big box miniature games, from various dungeon crawlers, skirmish, horror, etc type of games, and I am on the fence about this, not fully convinced. This is kinda a watered down KDM. It feels not very exciting, hand management for just weapons/abilities just to move around the boss to battle, and the same thing happens over and over with different bosses is bland. The minis are very cool and does look cool on the table, but I would get more excitement fighting the bosses in a video game. I was hoping for more in a campaign, instead of level up weapons and take on the next level boss. It would feel more exciting with a separate map going through a land and doing various other things, then battle a boss on that boss board. Anyway, my current take.
Yeah for sure this is NOT KDM and in fact is one of the boss battlers farthest from. Oathsworn has a "boss gauntlet" mode and Primal is pretty much that, but put on steroids. The entire game revolves around the card combo system and as such that's where it really shines. Every single other part of the game is meant to enhance and add to that system. Having a lengthy narrative would take away from that, spending a lot of time building up a village would take away from that. As such both are kept to a minimal so that all it does is add flavor to that combat system. While they are both boss battler's, I'd argue they serve two very different desires from a gameplay perspective so it's very understandable that you could like one and not the other.
@@TheKingofAverage While Oathsworn has not such good Boss battle it has a huge story and paths that makes it IMHO extremely appealing. It is a boss battler and that's that. with very good card management. I am more into a story that I can explore with my wife.
@@RacchoChapul thanks for bringing Sankokushin to the spotlight, I never heard of the game, gonna check it out. For me usability and ease to get to table is high priority, so maybe primal is just right for me then.
This guy gets it. RU-vidr’s need to take notes. normalize labeled time stamps! Good videos, good points, his sponsor segments don’t make me wanna hurl. I’m subbing.
"There are 3000 combinations..." cracks me UP! LOLz Thank you! Do you know if they are coming up with a FLOW-chart as a reference card after so many years of developing the rules and production? It will be so so useful.
As a Monster Hunter fan this is right up my alley. I am a fan of the mostly quick set up, the gameplay looks really good, and again the theme feels perfect to me
@@CrownofRa True, but the company making it is well known for making messy games, will have to keep an eye out for it though, and I'm sure the minis will be incredible
I know it’s off-topic for this review, but did you hear about the shitstorm about CMON’s new pledge manager opening for Massive Darkness 2 asking the first time for VAT (for customs friendly countries like in EU) which for some backers means an unprecedented and unexpected increase of costs up to 25%?! Maybe you want to comment about this in one of your next videos.
The first time this happened to me was for the Kickstarter Everdell expansion but they had that written down on the campaign. Now is a thing that I always check.
I am getting interested, but Townsfolk Tussle is on the way. Thematicly it does look appealing...What gave you more fun playing Townsfolk Tussle or Primal?
I'd play Primal over Townsfolk Tussle, depending on the group. My kids can play TT but my 11yo wasn't quiet "great" at playing Primal thanks to its added complexity in decision making. The joy of TT comes from the meta for me - the roguelike nature of it and the items and wackiness of it all. The gameplay mechanics themselves aren't super enthralling, but definitely good and more than sufficient. Gameplay mechanics for Primal to me were outstanding and the highlight so I tend to get a lot of enjoyment out of it. It's also got the cooler theme (IMO). If I had to pick one I can easily say it'd be Primal, but I'm happy to have both.
@@TheKingofAverage Thanks, the TT is more for me. My group does not go for too much "overthinking" games. Probably it could make them tired :) However those convoluted combos looks great for me.
You're in a similar situation as I am. I tend to like more games than my group does, and a bit more complex as well. Makes it tough to navigate what to back on KS!
The numerous combat combos, forethought, and environment manipulation remind me of Spirit Island and ShadowRun.. This will be a brain burner for sure. Which is a great thing in my book
@@TheKingofAverage it could be good to have both a micro and macro perspective included as- while you may enjoy certain aspects more in one game the other game might be your overall winner/most enjoyed, etc.
Haven't watched your channel before. Really good, easy to follow review from a nice guy! Thank you! 🙌 I love how you present your timestamps in the description too - very helpful and quick for me to flick through and get the idea without having time to watch the whole review. Subscribed! ✔️
Welcome Josh! Glad you liked my review and found it helpful! My long, detailed reviews aren't for everyone, but happy to provide for those like me that want a lot of info on it - these games are expensive so it's nice to know as much as you can I feel :D Timestamps take a bit of time but I know how much they help - it's always good to hear it was time well spent! :D
@@TheKingofAverage Agreed! Sometimes I'm all up for a full review but, when it's the baby's bedtime and I just need a quick overview, it's good to know that you cater for both cases well. 👌
Thank you Adam for the feedback and glad to hear it! If someone wants to skip they'll skip. Better to gives them a nice timestamp so they can get right back to the regular content rather and missing half a sentence or taking more of their time by having them skip ahead repeatedly. That and I spend the time to timestamp the whole video anyway so people can skip whatever section they wish to (or go back to one, or whatever) anyway :D
Isn't the complaint about playstyle similar to what we find in Oathsworn? Pay Animus. Play cards to combo. Everyone has the same generic 0 Battleflow card.
Really great review! You covered just about everything I was wondering about the game. I think this is going to be a really great hit with my game group! One of my main concerns was with terrain and how it would effect the game or lack there of. Glad to hear they did it right. My only other question is how would it feel fighting the same monster when say your character is level 1 vs level 5? How do they level up in difficulty as your characters get stronger? Will the monsters potentially get new upgraded cards that are more lethal? Lol sorry if I missed this and you covered it. I haven’t been this excited for a game since Oathsworn. It checks off so many boxes for me in the particular game category it fits into. Thanks again for another awesome video?
Hey KOA! I would absolutely love for you to do a painting guide for this game when you get your copy! I am new to Kickstarter backing, and this is going to be my first project :) I've also never painted a miniature and you seem to know what your talking about from what I have seen hahaha. Anyways, great review and very informative, thx a million!
Great review. I hope the designers are listening to this and feedback on upkeep. Upkeep always breaks the flow even if us board gamers are use to it. However doesn’t take away the fact that less we have to do the more immersive a game is. Either way I am probably all in but I will challenge the designers to get creative.
They've confirmed they've seen it :) It's a tough nut to crack for sure, but I'm not the game designer either :) As I say in my intro text, not all points are equal and I certainly still enjoyed my time with the game even with a bit of crazy reaction train minigame :D TBH my largest beef about it isn't so much doing it, but that it breaks up an otherwise awesome moment. The moment can still be awesome, but if you're about to lay down a card that lets you recycle so you can discard a card that'll buff your attacks and you got 3 of those bad boys ready to lay down and instead of laying them all down to decimate that stupid rock monster you have to lay only 1 down, react, react to that react, lay the second, react to it, have an ally react to that react and then lay down your third it can be a bit distant between awesome plan and final outcome. The best moments what when you could lay down your combo and not get interrupted at all. That's glorious :D
Will you also do a review of Epic Seven Arise? My TV displays a few artifacts since last weekend and now I have to make a few decisions between Epic Seven Arise, Primal and possibly a new TV...
Personally as much as I like the art, the gameplay of epic seven seemed clustered and bland to me. I feel that most of the fundraising will be through people who love the IP. As an actual game, I don't think it'll be that good. I'm gonna save my money on epic and put it towards Sankokushin instead I think.
I will be getting a copy to show off and try out, just don't know exactly when. I'm interested since it stands out thematically, but will have to look into it a lot more to be sure :)
Yes and no. Oathsworn's card combo system while good, lacks the "oomph" that this one provides. You build combos by playing cards of certain value and that's it. It works, it's enjoyable, but that summarizes the complexity of building combos. But that's okay, as the card combat is only a part of what makes Oathsworn so great. There's the involved and lengthy story, the character abilities, and a wide range of objectives. Primal lacks that varied objective list (no saving villagers here, just go kill that monster!) and has a story, but it's minimal and tries not to get in the way of what Primal is focused on, fighting monsters with card combos. With such a high importance on that card play it's understandably deeper and more nuanced. You don't just build combos based on value but on what's in your discard pile, what gear you have, what the monster is about to do, where you are, which way the monster is facing, what you played last turn, what your ally played up to this point in the battle and more. Pretty much anything is up for grabs when it comes to what your cards can build off of. This is what makes or breaks Primal and I at least think it makes it and then some. Oathsworn doesn't need rockstar level card play, there's a lot more on offer there than just that. What it has is really enjoyable and I love it, but the entire game isn't made to enhance that system like Primal does with it's. Hopefully that makes sense :)
Just an update! I requested the 3d terrain you suggested and they just had a survey about it. I got a feeling it would happen! So you don't need to look on etsy anymore if it happens! Hoping they would!
So my question is about replayability- once you figure out the puzzle to beat the boss and you upgrade your deck....How do they keep the difficulty level matching your growth?
Oathsworn is an apt comparison actually. Both have a good combo card system. I'll try and summarize (harder to do over text of course): Differences: Oathsworn is very much a narrative game as well with close to half the game time being around reading story and making decisions. Primal has a bit of that and it's good, but you are done within minutes and back to fighting - not a major part and I don't consider it a narrative game in that sense. Oathsworn has a combo system where you refresh cards by playing other cards. It works and it's great, but it's MUCH simpler and less complex than Primal's combo system. In Primal you can find a way to combo off of a card you discarded (or that someone else discarded even) to build a combo for instance. That's just a whole other level of combo goodness and here Primal shines the brightest. Oathsworn's characters all play differently. Thanks to abilities both on the character sheet and on the cards your character might run along tree branches to zip to the other side of the board, or flip over the enemy, etc. Primal lacks this from what I can tell and while you do things interesting, you aren't physically doing a unique action compared to other characters. Oathsworn has a lot of variety in boss mechanics and objectives like rescuing villagers and such. Primal has far more terrain interaction and monster evolution (adding cards, adding objectives, changing traits, etc.) but less on the objectives (really just kill the darn monster). Personally I'll be very happy with both. I find the cardplay better in Primal, but enjoy having a narrative game with many objectives like Oathsworn as well. Primal the cardplay IS the game, for Oathsworn it's only a part of it.
I just watched the Rahdo playthrough, and this guy put into detailed words exactly what I was thinking after I watching it. Soooooooooooo many fiddly things to remember, and compare, and upkeep, that this game will just scare all the people I wanted to play with away. It's already starting to scare me off, and I have not even received my game yet. This game reminds me of the time we tried to play Spirit Island with 4 people.
Yeah for sure! Without the map and monster changes I'd worry it'd get stale, but honestly after the earthquake causing rock monster I'm already pumped to see what the next battle brings
What's the quality of the mats/boards like? From my point of view the big one looks nice and thick but those forge ones looked quite floppy when you held them up.
Man i have been really excited for this. Thanks for the in depth review/overview. That upkeep seems to be extremely intrusive to player turns/actions though.
Not always, or it'd be a larger problem. What I described is worst case scenario but it does/can happen. There are time when there's no reaction and you can freely lay down your combo of epicenes, but other times you get interrupted every time you play a card in your sequence.
Only thing I miss is like a world map of some sort, where you get the feel of the history/story and where you are fighting a type of monster and really get that "feel".....
I just want to say that that was a great review. I've watched other videos about this game, but you really helped me understand how this game feels and the finer details of how it plays and what's important. Other videos helped me analyze the game and get to the point where I could see the possible problems in the game, but your video solved those issues so much that I probably didn't need to watch the others. Thank you.
Thanks for introducing this Intriguing new game. I appreciate that the tactical maps found in typical dungeon crawls have been abstracted into 4 zones. Would be great to see more of this kind of abstraction in future games though grid-style tactical maps have their own appeal as well. As you pointed out, it does help with keeping table footprint smaller and making the games easier to set-up and tear-down. Would you say that the "struggle" token mechanics seems like what Marvel Champions and other similar games (Threat tokens in the recent Altar Quest) do to add another dimension to the player's decision space?
Informative review! Thank you. You know, it occurs to me that I’ve been watching your videos for a while now, and even have been a patreon subscriber for a few months, but I was talking about one of your reviews the other day with a friend and drew a blank on your name. Now I’ve been watching for it, and you never seem to say it! No idea who you are. Lol
I can't wait for this. The ease of getting it to the table. The theme/astetics are fantastic. The gameplay seems quite enjoyable. The only thing that I am hoping for is some more terrain boards for the different variety of monsters involved. Painting the minatures to look similar to the board arts will be interesting. They knocked the art outta the park. Waiting on this one to show up will be rough. Indeed worth the wait though!
One thing that I really don't like is playing games "solo" where you have to play multihanded, I'll still get it for multiplayer, but I wonder if they're gonna have anything besides "play as two heroes" that is suggested in the rulebook. Oathsworn was really great with this and the solo hero cards for the other members.
Oathsworn did a great job developing an entire new way to play solo though I know there are many that dislike "alternate way to play solo" as much as "multihanded solo" and I can understand that too. The card play in Oathsworn is quite nice and you miss out on that sadly. Here there are many cards that you can play to help other players out so not having two instantly diminishes the value (and possibilities) those cards provide. Also there are states in this game where you'd either wholesale up the round counter by 2 whole rounds since no one else is there to go, and there are other mechanics that won't work anymore as well, such as jumping on the monster's back. When you jump on their back you place your mini on a behavior card you wish to block that is about to activate. If you are able to attack it you block that behavior reaction (which is amazing) but the only way to trigger a behavior card while your on it's back is for another play to cause it so you'd not be able to do that anymore. So while I'm sure they could provide a pure solo mode, I wouldn't personally rate it nearly as high as this. You'd miss out on a lot of cool cards (like that epic "Get Behind Me!" card I showed off) as well as some neat mechanics.
I always appreciate how detailed you are. I can’t wait to see what else they offer during the campaign. I’m kinda stuck between upgrading a $1 PM for Massive Darkness 2 or going in for this one. Did you back Massive Darkness 2? If not, have any thoughts you care to share about it?
Glad you liked the video! :) I did back MD2. If I couldn't use MD1 stuff with the new system however I probably would not have backed it. I like the theme of this WAY more than MD2 and the level of complexity between combat is miles apart. I expect Primal to be the cheaper option, and has the technically better combat mechanics.
After seeing this video and looking at the KS preview page I want this game more. It’s quick setup means more playtime and there’s 13 monsters total right from the start! The variety alone will keep this game entertaining and prevent it from becoming repetitive. The real question now is whether or not I’ll be able to spend the money.
Can you tell us about how big each terrain piece is? and if they have different sizes for the different features so that we can make our own to upgrade up from the tiles?
Great preview for a game that I was very hyped. Unfortunately now that I see how it work looks still a fun game but not a must have... I will follow the campaign and most probably back it but I was expecting more emphasis on the story and character
Ah yeah I can see that. Well that's the point of the video, to help you decide yes or no on it :) Best way I can describe it is that every single thing about this game is to enhance the combat. So instead of having some big story bit that is it's own thing, it too is just there to enhance the combat by making you more invested and helping your imagine run with the story a bit. It's there and what's there is good, but it's not something that stands on it's own, just another part of the package to further the combat.
It's kinda painful seeing a price tag of €140 for what is essentially just a card game with a huge miniature placed in the middle of a 2x2 grid. They could have sacced all the boss specific boards and rather made a single card for each boss that explains their HP and setup. I would have loved it if they had done a Poker chip or Standee version in addition for us that dont need the miniatures, but I guess I'll rather play Thunderstone Quest, Aeons End or Street Masters or that Dungeon Crawler/Boss fighter unless someone shows some more of those cards as every card I've seen in the playthroughs so far has been pretty basic. I would not ask them to reduce the miniature size as I do like large miniatures and I can see painters loving this.
Simple answer: yes. Longer answer: they server different roles for me. To me Oathsworn is VERY MUCH a narrative game and you spend a good chunk of time reading the story and making decisions. That's half the game. The other half is an awesome boss battler with good card play. Primal is more narrative than say, Zombicide, but not a narrative game (IMO) - just isn't really the focus. What's there is nice but it's far from half the game. You'd never have a game session where all you did was the story part for instance. You'll spend just a few minutes of it. So that just leaves the battle, in which case I enjoyed this a bit more. I'm a HUGE sucker for simple and nuanced mechanics that blend well with other mechanics and that's literally all this is. The combo system (of using cards to refresh other cards) in Oathsworn is really great and works well, and I LOVE the unique movers you can do like flipping over a giant rat as a barbarian or running along tree branches, but the combo system in Primal has a lot more "oomph" to it. Oathsworn is still to this day probably my groups overall winner. Everyone absolutely loves it. My personal tastes can differ slightly (as you saw with Twisted Fables no doubt).
Hah! You can always let me know if something like that happens! :) It started out pretty tongue in cheek but at this point I've adopted it fully and felt a bit more seriousness was needed :D
I know it a different genre but hearing you talk about the decision making and combo kinda reminds me of the card play in spirit island. Have you played that game? How is the card play compared to spirit island?
Dang you Micheal, I was firmly in the "only four zones? Pass" crowd and was happy because I could pass on this and save my wallet... And then you pulled me back up onto the fence lol. You make a good case as to why it's a fun game, but I still need to think about it, because I'm afraid it will get stale, no matter how many different monsters and heroes there are. Good review!
I'm interested in seeing how a review will go once people have the chance to play it in the form of a proper campaign. I know the prototypes that went out to people was mostly just focused on the battle itself, and didn't really touch on the campaign mechanics. I've been reading over the public campaign rules pdf and I think seeing how those play out in real situations will make a big difference for me, personally. Although I still backed it already.
TBH, this game is all about the battles. Everything, literally every other game mechanic is there to enhance those battles. Story is there but light, narrative decisions are neat, but really just there to see which monster you fight. It definitely deserve a look at it and there IS a narrative, but absolutely no one should back this for narrative alone I feel.
@@TheKingofAverage Oh no, I'm certainly not saying like I am going to just be caring about the narratives. But I mean I am curious how much they decide to do with it. I use Gloomhaven as an example, and that game has a whole lot of narrative. And I think they seem to be almost using like "lite" version of that approach here. I mean it's pretty clear every variation of the story is going to end up being "Oops, The Awakened is here now, go kill him", but little extra details are appreciated. And again, the actual flow of how a campaign goes is something I'm curious about. Obviously it's not going to have as many twists and turns as, say, KD:M, but it's still an element I look to examine.
I think the "traditional" dungeon tile style gameplay is getting outdated. Cause yeah, at the end of the day what matter is if you are close to the monster or not. For dungeon exploring i think the Dark souls BG and Sword&Sorcery did a good system for movement: you know you are close to the monster or not but you don't need tiles everywhere, just a general sence of proximity. I think Primal awakening lacks a bit of "distance". The 4 zones (front, flanks, and rear) are nice, but why is the archer atacking at the same distance to the shield guy?. Having at least 2 or 3 levels of "distance" between the monster and the characters could be nice, characters could be knokedback so they aren't in melee range, the monster could "run" or "charge" increasing the distance between the characters on the back but closing in character playing at a distance. "ranged" characters could have diferent builds/weapons for dealing with monsters really close, and terrain could have a bigger play. Like having a Wall between the outer zone and the inner zone, so possible projectiles couldn't "travel" trough said wall. The monster could charge and destroy the wall, creating a new zone, but removing cover. etc. Still, the game looks fine AF and i might greb it retail.
This looks like it could be fun, but I suspect I have this experience covered after backing Oathsworn, Aeon's Trespass: Odyssey, and Townsfolk Tussle. I'm not sure I have the shelf space or time for those three already. However, the short setup time and flexible player scaling are nice positives.
This is closest to TT, as the other two are heavy Narrative games and this one is not. The card combo system is like Oathsworn's, but more involved and obviously this has a smaller footprint than AT:O and Oathsworn (but probably not of TT). All fantastic games so you can't go wrong no matter what decision you make :D
@@TheKingofAverage Thanks for the additional info! I suspect my primary game group will like the theme of TT better than Primal. I like the idea of heavy narrative games, but I suspect TT and Primal would hit the table more often with my two main game groups. I may need to find a new game group to get AT:O and Oathsworn to the table. I guess there are worse problems to have in these crazy times :D
Hey, got one question would you back Primal or Aeon Trespass. I am on the fence. Play games like KDM, Sword and Sorcery, Tainted Grail and backed Oathsworn and Middara. Thanks for your advice :).
Depends on what you want out of it. Primal is closer to Oathsworn in that both are essentially card games for combat whereas AT:O is close to KDM in that it's more dice and mechanic focused. Primal is the lightest footprint with small table space, quick setup and a campaign that's not super long. AT:O is a huge game with a large table space and normal setup times with a much longer campaign. Primal is not huge on story, AT:O is insane with how much story you get. Hope that helps somewhat :D
Looks like its a lot cooler and has much better mechanics than I was expecting it to have. Still not a game I'm interested in myself, but some of the ideas it has look really good.
What if we only want the miniatures (the monsters/creatures) as a separate add on. Is that an option for this kickstarter? Please say that will be an option.
I know this may be a bit soon to ask, but where do you think the replayability will be for this game after the campaign? You mentioned that all the characters feel essentially the same. Does each game session play out differently even though you may be fighting the same monster repeatedly?
"the same monster" is perhaps a bit inaccurate. Each monster has an "aggression level" and they use different cards. It might just be a stronger version straight up, might add a single twist or might change things even more. Additionally through the story you'll pick up tasks that are like side objectives that you might or might not be doing at the same time and of course a single playthrough does not have you fighting all of the monsters so at the very least is supports 2 to fight everything (not including stretch goals/expansions). As for heroes, the combos and what you are doing ARE different, but it's not as impactful since their are no unique actions. Taking on all of the damage a monster can throw onto you while you tank for your whole group with "Get Behind Me!" is truly awesome, and not something you'll experience playing someone else. Having to concern yourself with how much damage you have on your hero board and how many aggro cards you've used already is unique to the sword and shield guy. So at the end of the day you're building combos as normal, but you're building them based on different things. To me this is more than fine and I see myself enjoying the change of pace of changing to say, the hammer guy that loves to stay right up front at the head of the monster so you tend to try and move with the monster. No unique action there, but using what common mechanics there are differently for sure. Hope that helps you make a decision! :)
I got aware of a lot of cards have the same illustrations. Wasn't it somehow an immersion killer that a "Berserk" and a "Balanced Strike" have the same image? And isn't it a pain to read the card names in your hand again and again instead of memorizing pictures? Somehow it feels like a no go for a deck builder and for a really expensive one....Or am I missing something?
I had no issue associating the name which I read in half a second to the card. I get your point for sure, but I personally didn't have a problem with it.
Like another poster said, Im loving the games that KDM has inspired and I hope it really grows. I havent watched any videos on the card combat specifically but I really question alot of games that tout "little to no randomness" when offering a card solution, many times you end up being limited to choices based on your card draw (etherfields) where a game like KDM you can always "try" to do something and success is dependent on die rolls. Will be interested to see how it works in this game but being limited on choices because of cards IMO feels worse than failings because of odds of a dice roll but Euro Gamers will probably disagree
You have a point! I will say that there were only 2 times where a player didn't do anything in my play sessions, so it's quite rare. Most cards serve a purpose and it's unusual to have a hand full of cards with nothing meaningful to do, but it does happen (just rarely). It never happened twice in a row. If it was a big concern, with 4 players it was guaranteed just about that someone could play an assist card to allow you to draw more cards, or there is equipment that allows you to discard and draw more cards so there are options to those that might be sensitive to that sort of thing.
Are the miniatures going to be pre-assembled or will assembly be required. reason I ask is you say tons of monsters and they look big in size. So if they're pre-assembled either the box is going to be massive, and expensive or it will require you to buy add ons which also increases price.
Pre-assembled PVC. Not sure how they'll handle storage. Perhaps they could/should keep the wings separate, but I don't think that's a good idea, not with PVC. They can't be push fit then so if you glue them in then you can't store them again. I need to have a word with them about the heroes as I think a good PVC/ABS mixture is in order.
Excellent review. I am not sold yet, but that's maily due to having so many games and minis now after almost 4 years on KS. Love the game sofar though :)
I expect this to be lower than the normal Narrative RPG game I cover. The scope is a lot less when it comes to making it. For instance games like Oathsworn and Stormsunder and such have well over 1,000 pieces of individual art. This will be in the very low hundreds. Those have close to dozens and dozens and dozens of individual sculpts, this one has a little over a dozen. While the space needed to make the big monsters means the cost in steel molds might be similar, the effort/cost in designing and tooling them is far far less. It's just my guess of course, but I expect it to be on the cheaper side, comparatively. The rulebook mentions expansions so I'm sure there will be at least a few :)
So the kickstarter is out. The base game comes with 13 monsters, with 3 expansions of 2 monsters each, and an expansion that adds 2 more character classes.
Thanks mate for your video. I know I am very late to the party but I just pledged allin for this magnificent game thanks to your reviews and comparisons!
I never time our play sessions and instead tend to go based on "feel" and we all felt it was a great time, but was glad the session ended when it did. Like a great movie sometimes it can almost feel like it's just a bit too long in the tooth. They claim each player adds 30 minutes and I agree more players adds time but we saw more than 30 minutes added for each - though again as you play and get used to the game I imagine it can get fairly speedy so the average is probably somewhere in the middle. I will say the skill ceiling is high. It took us 7 rounds to beat the first guy and one of the possible rewards was if you beat him in 4. Granted it was our first time but obviously you can play WAY more efficiently if you know what you're doing.
Brilliant review, i havent played kingdom death monster but would you say it has the same vibe...or better.....I do worry with the size of the minis, how expensive the bosses will be. Hopefully not too much. PS Loving the cake stand in the background. ;)
Would be better with cake on it right? :D I'll have to inform my wife about that :P For the monsters: what I wonder about most is the shipping honestly. This isn't a mini heavy game where we're getting like 80+ minis, and the bosses will be made of PVC since they are so big so it shouldn't be anything too terrible I'd imagine.
Nice review. I'm really on the fence for this one since with Oathsworn, I'll have two great boss-battlers (KDM). I love card play, but I've got a terrible mind for that kind of upkeep.
If you enjoyed KDM, I would recommend Oathsworn. Oathsworn is different enough from KDM to be worth the purchase and the story will suck you into it more than KDMs. Not sure how Primal's story will work, but this combat here seems far more simplistic than KDM or Oathsworn, so if you want something lighter then this may be the route to go.
Funny enough, Primal's combat system is FAR more advanced than Oathsworn's. Oathsworn's combo system is based only on value of the card you play whereas Primals is based on literally every other game element presented. Oathsworn's combat is just a part of the game it offers, Primals combat is all of it so it's a lot more invested into. I enjoy Oathsworn's combat, it's very serviceable and enjoyable and the boss gauntlet mode might be a good distraction for a while, but if that mode was the entirety of the game I'm not sure it'd be meaty enough to justify the purchase. Primal is pretty much just that boss gauntlet mode, supped up on asteroids :D Oathsworn is very much the safer bet for enjoyment sake if you like KDM. Primal while still a boss battler is pretty far removed from KDM gameplay and focus wise.
@@TheKingofAverage One of the major differences between these various combat systems is that the Primal system is not nearly as asymmetric as Oathsworns. There are obviously many differences, but that asymmetric nature to Oathsworn is closer to something like a Gloomhaven class system. Very unique and it's an important part of the game. In Primal, from the various videos I've watched, it looks less important which character you play because they currently all kind of do more or less the same thing. It's not bad, many games can pull that off well (KDM and Aeon Trespass do this as well). This is one area of their combat they could really put some additional attention into to really make the combat shine and polished.
@@anthonynelson8397 But to be honest even in Oathsworn you have many characters that have matching cards / skills. Especially the tanks don't feel too much different from each other. There are some interesting concepts in the rest of the lineup though.
@@Brainfracture The tanks were worked on in the 2nd printing to make them more distinct from each other. Aside from that, the characters are fairly unique. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if this is also true of Primal at this point. My comment about characters being similar was a few years ago and a lot can potentially change in that time.
I really hope that the miniatures and the physical board ensures the immersion. I was really disappointed by Marvel Champions as i had looked forward to it being a fan of the Arkham Horror LCG, but the card combo quickly made the game become a "discard blue, discard yellow, play red, discard blue, play yellow" kinda game and the cards might as well have been empty in terms of art as i didnt get any immersion into what i was doing. I hope i dont get the same feeling from this.
I can confirm you won't! I felt the same way about Etherfields as well. This is MUCH better and more involved. You're never just playing a card to play a card, each one has something unique that it offers you and it's all very involved.
Well it looks like we are really seeing a lot of great games spawning off the success of KDM. Seems like board games are becoming more creative and beautiful as we go forward. We are not even close to the peak.
unfortunately a lot of games are hiding lackluster gameplay behind pretty art and theme though, kinda reminds me of how the video game industry has gone.
Seems like the perfect candidate for regular publishing instead of crowd funding - just drop the minis for standees (or heck, even tokens with a carrot/arrow.)
Yeah one thing to note here is that unlike something like CMON, and as impressive as this prototype is, it's their first major game as a company (with only a more small scale first game prior) so I can understand going the safer route of KS and getting some funds upfront. That being said, I think this could totally work in a retail setting if they choose to go that route later.
My biggest concern is that I have Oathsworne coming and that looks like a better more fleshed out version than Primal. I would like to play Primal but don’t think I need it in my collection. Thanks for the excellent video KoA! I will keep an eye on this game now thanks to you. 😎
Oathsworn is a very good game but has a bit different focus. The story part and boss fight part are of equal importance there, where in Primal the focus is deffo on the fighting.
@@TheKingofAverage I made it halfway through before deciding it just looks too single-track in a sense that the newness would wear off once you get into the meta and just dominate bosses with the best combos. Oathsworn by comparison already looks to be a better game given the campaign and boss-battle boards. Yeah, my opinion didn’t change; this very much looks like a Dark Souls 2.0 IMHO.
was thinking exactly the same and after watching the video, my opinion didn't change..as my group has a copy of Dark Souls and I backed Oathsworn, which is another boss battle boardgame, no interest in backing Primal. Seems that my appetite for boardgames is quenched with all the boardgames I backed the last years and it must be really special now for me to take out the CC and back a game.
The game looks awesome, but with the size of the minis I feel like it'll be a bit overpirced for what it actually is? It is not a complaint per say, the minis look incredible and drew me in, but we'll see. Very intrigued by it!
