That is because Joshua failed to distinguish the differences between eternal salvation and temporal salvation. Eternal salvation is 100% of Christ without the will of man. Temporal salvation is salvation conditioned based on our obedience to God while here on earth. In terms of what gets us to heaven, it is none other than the obedience of one- Jesus Christ the Lord (Romans 5:19). He saved His people from their sins (Matthew 1:21). Things like belief, confess, repentance, etc does not get us to heaven, but are evidence that one are already in possession of eternal salvation. Those are done while here on earth, so that we may rejoice in the salvation. If we obey Him, we would be saved from His judgement as it states that He shalt judge His people. If we continue His word, we will find out the truth and the truth will set us free. Baptism doesn’t get us to heaven, but if you read Acts 2:40, it saves us from this untoward generation. As you can see, God saving His people and their shall be in heaven is an unconditional covenant of God’s Grace toward His people, but at the same time, some of His covenants are conditional based on our obedience to Him while we are here on earth. May God bring down the fire, so that His people will turn to Him, worshiping Him in spirit and in truth, and willing to serve Him His way just like the days of Elijah.
@@HarryHafsak I couldn’t reconcile being a Christian who wasn’t a primitive baptist. If God wants you to be in heaven, you will be. He doesn’t sit around twiddling His thumbs waiting for you to accept him. If you are capable of loving him, whether you actually do or not, he loves you too 🥰
Wow, I've never heard of this group before. What a bizarre and eclectic mix of beliefs... like a strange hybrid of conservative and liberal theology. Thank you as always for your neutral points of view.
One branch of my family was Primitive Baptist from the early 1800s to the late 1800s. Four generations of them helped plant Primitive Baptist churches in new towns and villages throughout Kentucky, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and Iowa. Then my great-great grandfather fell in love with and married a girl from an Irish Catholic immigrant family. That ended my direct ancestors' involvement with the Primitive Baptists! His wife's family disowned her, and IIRC my great-great grandparents ended up joining a Lutheran church, where my great grandfather met a nice girl of Danish heritage. I don't know if any of the Primitive Baptist churches my ancestors helped found are still open, but the building of the last one is still standing and somewhat maintained, at least on the outside. It's still prominently labeled "Primitive Baptist Church" in large letters above the door, but stands boarded up at the edge of a tiny village in southwestern Iowa.
Brother, I was JUST on a road trip through small tiny towns in Southeasteen Iowa and I honest to God think I saw this Church on the way to the American Gothic House, it even sparked a convo with my friend who wanted to know what Primitive Baptists were World is really a small place... bless you
This is a good summation of the beliefs of many White brothers and sisters who are Primitive Baptists. I am a Black man who is no longer a Primitive Baptist but grew up Primitive Baptist and still has a familial connection to the Primitive Baptist Church. I was saved at the age of 12 and baptized in the Primitive Baptist Church. I now pastor a Missionary Baptist Church in southeastern Alabama. Having stated the previous facts, Black Primitive Baptists' beliefs are very different. Black Primitive Baptists are trinitarian in their beliefs, that is, God is three Persons but one in essence - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Black Primitive Baptists are mostly KJV, but not KJV-only. Musical instruments are welcomed and actually preferred. They sing many songs from the hymnal and others that are not. They believe that the Lord Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life and that no person goes to the Father except through Jesus. Many believe that once saved, always saved, but there may be some variation amongst different churches or individual believers. Black Primitive Baptists practice baptism by immersion but generally believe that baptism has no saving qualities in and of itself but is an outward expression of their inward faith in the Lord Jesus.
Got lost in an unfamiliar neighborhood and saw one of their churches. The name was memorable, given that the word “primitive” is usually used pejoratively. What a unique set of beliefs.
This is like my momma talked about the feet washing church. My children were home schoolex. We had home church with feet washing. My daughter was 6 years old and said, let's do it again. When preachers made it as a professional career with a home, vehile, car expencies, paid trips to Holy Land, etc. it dramatically changed. My grandpa was a Baptist Preacher. Not seminary. He did trapping on the side. I am from Louisiana. He went as a child till marriage at a Missioniary Baptist Church. I am 71. I have seen them churches become Southern Baptist. I know a lot of members are bullies. No just those small country chuches. They became enormous and now it is a Christian Country Club called Church. Many see it as a playhouse. My daddy would say he didn't want a choir in church. I would like to know more on the Primate Baptist. Thank you.
I am a PB and would tend to agree with everything you pointed out. I would add that more PBs in recent decades have become much more open to doing missionary work in other countries - but only as feeling truly led by God through prayer to do so. Not as directed by missionary boards of men. As for the alcohol comment, I’ve never heard a minister actually say it’s ok to drink alcohol other than we believe it’s vital that real wine be used in communion. But true as any other group of disciples aka sinners, there are those who drink. Saw an above comment of being called strange. It certainly is to an outsider’s view on it. However, I’m thankful to have been brought up in it. Blessings to my fellow disciples who come across this video.
@@tonypike5785 that means no musical instruments are used in traditional Primitive Baptist services. The singing is a cappella you might find a piano or organ in some more progressive Primitive Baptist churches, primarily black Primitive Baptists. You will never find an orchestra or a praise band or a drum set or a guitar. Primitive Baptists follow what is called the regulative principle of worship, meaning that if the Bible didn’t tell you to do it, then you shouldn’t do it and if the Bible told you not to do it, you shouldn’t do it. You should only follow the example as set in scripture in the early church of meeting together for singing, prayer, and teaching.
I never heard of Primitive 'til I moved to Knoxville, TN. I visited on once and a guy asked me if I was Primitive Baptist. I said "no, I'm just Baptist." I got the impression that it didn't make his day. I'm just rolling my eyes at all the off shoots of Baptist. Why do people have to make is sooo complicated. Just fallow the Bible and if you disagree with a brother, just love him anyhow. Are we not free in Christ?
I'm Primitive Baptist and some of my friends are Missionary Baptists. We get along great because we respect each other's beliefs and convictions. We read the same bible. We believe in salvation by Grace. We just interpret the doctrine of Grace differently.
well as a Missionary Baptist who believes you must hear the Gospel and accept God's free gift of grace, i cant justt "love" those who say that u can do and believe in other gods and still be saved. if u are lost, u need to be found. while i can certainly be friends with a PB, i cannot condone the teaching that u can reject Christ and spit on His Gospel and still make it to heaven. sorry.
Following the Bible is pretty difficult when everybody translates it differently. That's why there's tons of denominations and even cults that spring up from time to time. Even during the US Civil War both sides threw Bible quotes at each other in the full belief that they were correct and that the other was wrongly interpreting it.
Thanks for the video! I wish Joshua had time to mention the view of conditional time salvation and the controversy surrounding that as well as the controversy surrounding two-seed doctrine.
It reminds me of where Jesus talks about the body saying, "Foot, I have no use for you!"etc. Except it's like the various parts arguing about which one was formed first.
A few years ago I drove past a sign for a 'Primitive Baptist Church" and I could see it off the road a bit and it did look like an old 1800's small building. So I thought it was a historically preserved example of an old Baptist. A few months later I passed a second one and realized that it was a type of Baptist practice.
As a kid, I assumed that this is what all Calvinists believed when it came to predestination. Then I learned they believe a person is predestined to come to faith. I didn't realize that Primitive Baptists and perhaps some others actually believed a person is predestined to salvation or condemnation regardless of faith. Or do they believe faith always saves, but a person can be saved without faith, and if so are there any contingencies? Mormons for example believe "good" non-Mormons can go to the new earth.
No, he clearly said that what you believe doesn't matter, so Primitive Baptists believe that some people who believe the truth are going to hell anyways.
@@bigscarysteve That's crazy, because it's clearly in violation of scripture. He also said they don't evangelize, which seems too much of a heresy to be saved.
@@litigioussociety4249 I agree with you. I was merely trying to clarify what Joshua said Primitive Baptists believe--I didn't say I was endorsing their beliefs. I definitely do not.
Hi, Primitive Baptist here. So a few clarifications: 1. We believe that God's people were chosen in Christ as their mediator and surety unto eternal salvation before the world began (Eph. 1:3-6; 2 Timothy 1:9; Romans 8:28-30), and that the Lord Jesus perfectly satisfied the demands of God's law on their behalf, totally and finally putting away their sin for ever (Matthew 1:21; Romans 5:8-10, 18-19; Hebrews 1:3, 9:26, 10:14-18). In doing so, he purchased and secured eternal life for all of his people. This means that the Holy Ghost will, at some point in the life of every elect individual, monergistically impart eternal life to the spiritually dead sinner (John 5:25; Titus 3:5). The Spirit does this work by himself, when and where he is pleased to do so (John 3:8). 2. Thus, we would affirm that eternal salvation is 100% by the sovereign grace of God conditioned wholly on the finished work of Christ. 3. This means that what most people consider to be the means and/or causes of eternal salvation, we take to be the evidences and manifestation of eternal salvation. This includes believing the Gospel. Jesus taught that wheoever believes already has eternal life and has passed ( or "is passed" in the KJV -note the present-perfect tense construction) from death unto life (John 5:24). John likewise taught that those who believe (present tense) were born (past tense) not of the will of man but of God (John 1:12-13) and that whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born/has been born of God (1 John 5:1). Just as he that doeth righteousness is born/has been born of God (1 John 2:29). 4. Our view would differ from Mormons in that Mormons teach eternal salvation by works, whereas we affirm that a person only gets to heaven by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, his imputed righteousness and the renewing of the Holy Ghost. We believe that in every nation whoever fears God and works righteousness is accepted with God (Acts 10:35) not because they earned it but because fearing God working righteousness shows an already regenerate heart. 5. As far as missionaries go, Primitive Baptists are not opposed to preaching the Gospel to God's people wherever they may be found. I love talking to people about the Gospel and do so on a regular basis. What we oppose are unbiblical mission societies which are distinct from the local church. We also oppose the Arminian notion that God is dependent upon the missionary and/or preacher to save sinners from hell. I did not grow up Primitive Baptist. As a matter of fact my girlfriend and I very recently became official members of a Primitive Baptist church. So I understand the "shock" that is initially felt when hearing what we believe. A lot of false accusations have been hurled against our people (such the ones you suggested - liberalism, universalism etc.) and I find that the best thing to do if you are interested is just read some Primitive Baptist writings, listen to our preachers, and contact a PB directly to ask them questions yourself. I think you'll find that for the most part we aren't as cooky as people might assume us to be 😉 Feel free to ask questions if you have any. God bless.
@@SovereignGrace1611 Interesting. I still believe Calvinism is heresy, so I disagree with most of what you said. It creates an unjust God or weak God who is either unwilling to save everyone, yet he has the ability to it, or lacks the ability to do it. All the letters in Revelation 2 and 3 make it clear that one must walk in the faith to be saved, they aren't just saved by God forever. There are many more verses, and Calvinism is mostly an American belief, not really sure why it appeals to Americans.
After reading all these comments, and accusations, I, as aPrimitive Baptist, have come to the conclusion that these folks seem to know all about us but have never set foot in one of our churches. Come and see us, you might like it..
A while ago I visited a decommissioned Primitive Baptist church building, repurposed as a small crafts museum. It was bare as a bone, with no decoration of any kind, and no evidence of a choir loft or organ. The PB congregation seemed to have practiced an extreme simplicity. (It looked grim, but I assume that the congregants preferred that nothing should distract them from the worship of God.)
Some Primitive baptist refuse to update church architecture and so they won't paint the pine boards that the building is constructed out of, or install electrical wiring, indoor plumbing, wall-to-wall carpeting, and air conditioning. The group I have in mind is called the Alabaha River Association they are found in the wiregrass region of Georgia. (i.e. think southern Georgia like Waycross) I don't suppose that is where the church was?
@@appalachianmountain The church that I visit was in North Carolina. But your description of an utterly simple, completely unadorned church certainly fits it. By the way, I was told that they also did not sing hymns. They sort of chanted them--but not in the Gregorian manner, of course.
@@newshound64 If I am not mistaken the kind of singing that you are talking about is called "lining out." Here is an example: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-LS28-5G8SfE.html
@newenglandbaptist lining out was used for those who couldn't read. They rarely use it anymore. They do sing as a group with no choir or instruments though
Primitive baptist soteriology is one of the caricatures of Calvinism that's actually quite common. Some people think this is the logical conclusion of limited atonement.
It's basic Calvinism, but with one odd twist. In standard Calvinism, God chooses the elect from eternity past. Then at some point during the lifetime of each of the elect, God brings them to a knowledge of the saving faith. Primitive Baptists believe that God chooses the elect from eternity past, but He doesn't necessarily bother bringing them to a knowledge of the truth.
@@janeyue7491 There's nothing in the video about two different types of salvation. Are you saying that Joshua missed something, or are you reading something into the video that isn't there?
I don’t think it was explained well in a 2 minutes video. For example: after watching that video, could you distinguish the two different types of salvations that the Primitive Baptists understand from the scriptures?
Primitive Baptists and Reformed Baptists are often wrongly conflated. Along with their rejection of classical Calvinism, PBs say that they are not Protestant. Claiming they are a primitive church with a “trail of blood” leading back to the apostolic era. RBs celebrate their Protestant heritage.
NO such thing as reformed Baptist unless they do not know church history...which they don't who call themselves that. Baptists never came out of Her ever. I am a monergistic Baptist but would never use the term reformed in that context. "The Trail of Blood" absolutely explains church history and the enemies admit as well the key points given. No, Jim Carrol never recanted of his book on his deathbed at all...and even had he....it matters not when the Papacy in all their hatred for the Baptistic lineage admits the unpopular facts. The truth is uncovered from both sides. It is absolutely correct that the Baptistic lineage did not come out of the Mother fo Harlots and that is why they are still mostly hated by Her and Her Daughters. The Baptists have always been persecuted by Her and Her Daughters but are the ONLY denomination lineage who has not persecuted others....let that sink in some.
I don’t think it was well explained in a 2 minutes video. For example: after watching the video, can you distinguish the two different types of salvations?
Primitive Baptists are also referred to as old school or old line Baptists. With the development of Sunday schools and missionary societies and Boards in the early and mid 1800s, those churches who chose to follow that path became known as new school, or missionary Baptists. Before that, Baptists were generally known as just Baptists. Baptists in America are related to the Particular Baptist tradition of England.
Baptists (SBC, IB, IFB) usually believes in evangelizing. What makes them suddenly believe in evangelization while the Primitive Baptists didn’t believe so? It’s a big shift from “not evangelizing” to “evangelizing”.
There was a major controversy over this in the 1800s, leading to a division between "Primitive Baptists" and "Missionary Baptists", and nearly all other Baptists today would land on the "Missionary Baptist" side of that controversy.
This is a discussion of the mainstream group, called hard shell. There is a group called progressive primitive Baptist that is not the same, and the historically black churches using the name "primitive Baptists" may have a wide variety of beliefs.
Interesting that they believe people of other faiths can potentially be saved. That sorta falls in line with the Catholic doctrine of invincible ignorance (see Romans 2: 12-16). I'm used to Protestant denominations saying that _only_ Christians can go to heaven, and anyone who isn't saved automatically goes to hell.
Sam, if you go back to the Old Testament I believe in 1 Kings and chronicles, you would find that Jeroboam has taken the 10 tribes, and made 2 golden calves, and told the people that those are the gods that got them out of Egypt. If you recall, the split has happened after the death of King Solomon, in which Jeroboam took over the northern 10 tribes, while kicking the Levi’s out, and Rehaboam took over 1 tribe, which is the tribes of Judah, in which the tribes of Benjamin are also mixed in there to form one tribe. That one tribe is linkeage to Jesus Christ the Lord, while the other would be Babylonians in captivity. So, going back to that 10 tribes in which Jeroboam was in charged. Are you saying that just because they were lead by Jeroboam, in which they have continued to gone south for so many years after the death of Jeroboam, are not saved by God because they were lead by a bad leader who told them to worship two false calves? Are you going to say that because they worshipped false idols, they are no longer Christians, and therefore, would no longer be in heaven? Let’s not forget what happens later on. God grace sent Elijah, who will pray for the fire to come down, and His people are saying, God is Lord, and their hearts turned back to God again. Therefore, while here on this earth, we must remember that children of God could be worshipping false idols, never heard of Christianity to become one, or was taught by false prophets and got stuck in the false preachings, or for whatever other reasons we might not know about, could possibly be God’s children who will be in heaven. They are saved by the grace of God eternally, but by no mean that they are being delivered while here on earth.
I don’t get why people don’t read the book! He clearly says people who didn’t hear the word but still follow it because their heart is in the right direction will be saved.
Jeremiah 17:9 states, ‘ The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?‘ how can one follow Him with a deceitful and wicked heart? By our own nature, none of us can. People can only be born again, and to follow Him, and to do things His way, worshipping Him in spirit and in truth, giving all glory, honor, and praises when the Lord quickens them by the spirit (eph 2:1), by giving them a new heart and a new spirit (Ezekiel 36:26). And as 1 Corinthians 2:14 states, ‘ But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned,’ we therefore know that anyone who does any spiritual things, such as admit, believe, confess, repent, be baptized, follow Him, strive to do things the way that the Lord prescribe them to do, it is because the Lord has first quickened them, so that they are able to do so. Otherwise, they are the natural man who are dead in sins and transgressions, and have no desire to seek after Christ.
Some have mentioned John 14:6. Maybe we should break that down a little bit. We are told that no man comes to the Father except through Jesus. Exactly what does that look like? Do we repeat a little prayer? Is it the church to which we belong? Is it what we believe or do we have to be baptized as infants or adults? Or in other words, can we come to the Father through our own efforts? If you follow the right rules and belong to the right church, will you be saved? Could it be that when Jesus says that no man comes to the Father except through Him that he is referring to the imputed righteousness of Christ on our behalf? Were Noah and Abraham, righteous men before Christ? If so, how? How was Cornelius a righteous man before Peter went to see him? May the Holy Spirit guide our understanding.
The way that the Primitive Baptist explain John 14:6 is by this dialogue between Jesus and Thomas, we are made to understand that the only way that we can come into a righteous standing with the Father is by the Lord and his work on the cross, because he is the way, the truth, and the life.
@JD, what are you saved from when you called upon the name of Jesus Christ? Calling upon the Lord, Jesus Christ is NOT what gets you to heaven, but it is a salvation from the dread of judgement. Also, you do not get to heaven by your beliefs in the Lord Jesus Christ, but the fact that you believe in Him shows that it is the Lord who worketh in you (John 6:29), so that you may rejoice in the eternal salvation that God has for you. Therefore, belief is a work of God, and as Eph 2:8-9 states, we are saved by grace and not by work, and so by saying you must believe in order to get to heaven, you are saying that you are saved by works.
Seems they're saying "We can't judge who's saved, so we don't worry about it. This is how we worship, this is what we do, we think we are right, but we aren't judging anyone else." Which is more than you can say for some (who seem hung up on salvation being predicated on having a certain view of the trinity, a certain view of millennialism, a certain view of the sacraments, a certain view of baptism, etc.) Many Christians seem to confuse their English bible when they can't tell the difference between "discernment" and "judgement." Christ said "Judge not, lest ye be judged", but then take all other instances of "judging" in the New Testament as just that: judging who's saved or not. It should be enough to set up a church, teach according to the Bible, and let the chips fall where they may. Whether you're saved or not is between you and the Father, not some man-made institution.
I am a PB and, yes, in essence that’s true. I can’t say it’s 100% true that we PBs haven’t been guilty of judging others for how they worship or what they believe. We’re sinners as much as the next person, but when you get right down to it, much of what you wrote would tend to be our view. In discussions with disciples of other faiths, we’d of course want to convince you what we believe to be the truth, but not at the cost of permanently offending a brother or sister. Have fellowship in the areas of doctrine we can certainly agree upon, and then agree to disagree on those where they differ.
Let’s see if it make sense.... The people who were baptized during the day of the Pentecost: they were saved eternally before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4). They will be in heaven. However, when they got baptized, they saved themselves from the untoward generation (Acts 2:40), and the Lord added to the church daily. A 2 minutes video on the Primitive Baptist won’t tell you the whole picture, but the Primitive Baptist distinguishes the differences between eternal salvation and temporal salvation. Eternal salvation is 100% done by the grace of God without the help of men. However, just because they are saved eternally doesn’t imply that they are saved from this untoward generation (Acts 2:40). Believing in Him aren’t one of the requirements to get to heaven, but as the promise of John 3:16, it is an eternal security to believers of Christ. Or people say confess. It is not a requirement for eternal salvation, but since no one can confess that Jesus is Lord except the Holy Spirit in them (1 Corinthians 12:3), it is evidence that one has the proof of Holy Spirit in them. Or How about repentance? It is evidence that the goodness of God leads them towards repentance (Romans 2:4). Without the goodness of God that leads us towards repentance, there is no way we can come together and have fellowship with one another. There is no way we can come together and worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. There is no way we could have feel the guiltiness inside us, and get down on our knees, asking for mercy, asking for His wisdom to do justly, love mercy and walk humbly with thy God.
The church services are simple and not impeded by distractions like concert lighting and egomaniacal preacher personalities. That’s just one reason it’s attractive.
Predominantly Black Primitive Baptist Churches have some differences usually - hymns not from hymn books, Sunday schools, instruments during praise, etc. This may explain your experience.
This video failed the two different salvations that the PB has. Eternal salvation is 100% Christ, as Salvation is of the Lord. It is by the obedience of one -Jesus Christ the Lord (Romans 5:19), and not the will of men. Temporal salvation is conditioned based on our obedience to God while here on earth. Such as baptism doesn’t get us to heaven, but saves us from this untoward generation (Acts 2:40). Belief in Christ Jesus doesn’t get us to heaven, but as John 3:16 promised, it is an eternal security for believers of Christ. Confession is not something we do to get to heaven, but since no one can confess Jesus is Lord, but the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:3) , it is evidence that the Holy Spirit is in us. Repentance is not what we do to get to heaven, but as the goodness of God leads us to repentance (Romans 2:4), we felt the guilt of sins inside us, and turn to the Lord, seeking for His wisdom to lead us to do justly, love mercy and walk humbly with thy God. Many times, we will see if... then which is salvation conditioned based on our obedience to God. For example: John 8:31-32 ‘ If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.‘ Notice, if.... then.... and so if we continue in the word of God, we would be saved from bondage, from false preachings, and false prophets, as there are many around in this world. This type of salvation is not something we do to get to heaven (as God already took care of that), but to save ourselves from troubles where here on earth.
Hi Dan I do not officially attend a church due to far distance. There are no Pb in San Francisco, and I couldn’t get a ride, as I would have help pay for some of the expenses. However, if there were a PB around, I would have gladly attend one. I read somewhere else that you are in the Philippines, and I believe that Elder Rommel Fababeir is a PB pastor from the Philippines. But in the meantime, I try to study the scriptures, and Elder Vernon Johnson’s notes have been pretty helpful, although I feel the lack of understanding at times, but will continue to seek the Lord for wisdom.
Actually just like not all baptist, methodist, presbyterian believe the same , not all primitive baptist do. There are hyper calvinist Primitive Baptist , No Hell Primitive Baptist, and Primtive Baptist that are were the beginning of the missionary Baptist who believe in free will
I think it's less than "You don't need to be Christian", it's more saying "We can't judge who's saved, so we don't worry about it. This is how we worship, this is what we do, we think we are right, but we aren't judging anyone else." Which is more than you can say for some (who seem hung up on salvation being predicated on having a certain view of the trinity, a certain view of millennialism, a certain view of the sacraments, a certain view of baptism, etc.)
@@rustyshackelford3590 I don't think that's what the video states, noone said anything about "arbitrary." I certainly think there are people who never had the opportunity to hear the Gospel in heaven, and they could be in any number of other non-Christian religions. I'm not a Calvinist, nor a Primitive Baptist for that matter, but there are indeed churches that don't pass judgement on others, and just teach the Word. Is it the Church's job to separate wheat from the chaff? Christ taught against that: God is sufficient to judge humanity. Does that mean we aren't to discern? Of course not, most instances of "judging" in Paul's letters, for instance, are discernment. We have the right to associate with those whom we think are teaching correct doctrine. In fact it sounds like these Primitive Baptists do that: they only accept their own baptism for members, and practice closed communion. They just don't go so far as to say who is or who is not "saved." That's up to God.
My understanding from the video is that Primitive Baptists believe that salvation, as predetermined by God, is for those who desire salvation and desire to be righteous. If I understand their position correctly, it's not completely arbitrary who's elected, but it is hard to tell who is or isn't saved, so it's not useful to try to judge that.
@@adamkotter6174 That sounds about right. At the same time, this is a 2 minute video that can't hope to encapsulate the beliefs of all primitive baptists, so, there we all go. :) I think Ready To Harvest was a little hasty when listing all these other religions the Primitive Baptists believe can be saved; I think he was trying to make a point about their general abstinence from judgement, but it was communicated poorly.
1 Peter 1:21 KJV [21] Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. (By him, the Lamb Jesus Christ, we believe in God!)
The way that the Primitive Baptist explain John 14:6 is by this dialogue between Jesus and Thomas, we are made to understand that the only way that we can come into a righteous standing with the Father is by the Lord and his work on the cross, because he is the way, the truth, and the life.
I think "protestant" churches generally fall into 4 major categories. The first is the Conservative Reformation. These would be Confessional Lutherans. The second is the radical Reformation. These would be like Presbyterians. The third is soft restorationists. These would be any variety of Baptists or nondenominational. The fourth is mainline protestants because these churches have largely embraced the modern secular culture and have stopped being Christians.
No all Primitive Baptists believe the things in this video, the Eastern District PB', the Hiwassee PB's, the Oak Grove PB's, the Original Tennessee PB's, the Beulah PB's etc etc do NOT believe salvation is predestined, nor do they believe limited atonement, nor do they believe you can be atheist, hindu etc and still be saved. the doctrines mentioned in this video did not begin until after the civil war. i have hundreds are PB articles of faith from the 1830's thru the early 1900's that would deny the doctines this video presents
Yes, as stated in the first five seconds, this is what the mainstream believes. There are several other groups like the ones you mentioned, progressive primitive Baptists, and also a lot of Black primitive Baptist congregations that look nothing like this group.
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for ****it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;**** to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.” ~Romans 1:16-17 Primitive Baptists teach the gospel of Christ has NO role and NO part in salvation and that belief is not necessary. The Bible teaches that the gospel of Christ is the very power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes. Who will you trust?
I will continue to trust the Bible. I have been both a missionary Baptist, and a primitive Baptist, so I have seen and understand both sides. Paul wrote to the Romans that there are none that are righteous. none that do good none that seek understanding. He also wrote to the Philippian believers that they should work out their own salvation with fear and trembling through obedience. How could they believe and obey if they have not first been made righteous by God? That is what we believe, that the Holy Spirit, through regeneration, changes a person and imparts faith that makes it possible to believe and obey. That is the eternal salvation that can only be done by God. The gospel is not a means of salvation but is exactly as it is described by Paul to Timothy in II Timothy 1:9-10, a means of bringing to light the life and immortality provided by Christ.
@@andrewmureiko2120 They are not cult! Just because this video failed to explain the differences between eternal salvation and temporal salvation doesn't mean that they are cult. Just because people who think that they must do such and such and such (such as admit, believe, and confess) in order to 'get to heaven,' but the Primitive Baptists believe that God already saved His people from their sins, and those things mentions (the ABC's) are evidence that one is a child of God who are already in possession of Eternal Salvation doesn't make them a cult.
@@andrewmureiko2120 I never heard of anything about the 'BITE model.' However, the Primitive Baptists that I know of are scripture based, and allow scriptures to interpret itself. Maybe you are not familiar with the Primitive Baptists. Also, a 2 minutes video doesn't explain everything about them. A better way of explanation would be scripture base, and not just this.
they don’t think of themselves as calvinists. Primitive baptists are the definition of what is called hypercalvinism which is considered a heresy by calvinists as well.
Following the rules is a form of works righteousness, and I don’t believe the Bible teaches that you can be saved by works. If that were possible, we would have been saved by the law, and Christ would not have needed to die.
I think the video failed to distinguish the differences between eternal salvation and temporal salvation. Eternal salvation is 100% of Christ without the will of men. God saved His people from their sins, and everyone of them that He saved will be in heaven eternally. Temporal salvation is conditioned based on our obedience to God while here on earth. Like King David will be in heaven not because of anything he has done, but he suffered while here on earth because of his sins, such as adultery towards Uriah’s wife, Bathsheba and killing Uriah. The sword do not leave his house, so David was constantly in war, which we may feel instead of peace if we disobey God while here on earth.
@@jasonjohnston94 i just taught ephesians 2 yesterday and obviously you don't get saved by works but the problem with primitive baptists is that they believe there is salvation outside of Christ
The Primitive Baptist doesn’t believe that there are salvation outside Christ. Never have I heard that before. They do believe that Christ saved His people from their sins by His will, His purpose as mentioned in Eph 1 and 2.
Hi The Traditionists! I think it is only fair that you have studied the writings from one of the Primitive Baptist’s Preachers regarding the book of Ephesians. This link to his notes, because it is not what you said is true, but they believe in one Lord, one God, and that is Jesus Christ the Lord. macedonia-pbc.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Ephesians-composite.pdf
No, they rightly teach that salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone but have a high view of God's Sovereignty and deem it possible that there are those who are elected of God without having Biblically correct beliefs.
@@bloodboughtbigphilr8266 If they teach that it doesn't matter what you believe (which is what Joshua said they believe), then that isn't salvation by faith alone. It is salvation by God's decree of election alone. You need to listen more carefully.
@ Big Scary Steve: going back to the Old Testament, if you were part of one of the 10 tribes of Israel when Jeroboam were leading, and created 2 golden calves, and told you that those were the statues that bought you out of Egypt, but failed to mention that it is because the Israelites turned their backs away from God, and worshiped the Golden Calves that lead them to the wilderness for 40 years, would you be glad that it is not because of what you believe that you are saved, but through grace of God that gets you to heaven?
We love God because he first loved us. Therefore, we try to follow His rules. The fact that God’s love is unconditional is the best reason to do what is right.
@@janeyue7491 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18)
I go to a Baptist church and the things are not correct or it may be from another church. It uses many types of Bibles, they even give bibles away. they have some band. they have bible classes, that's why I go. they have choirs . the pastor gets paid.
Your church is not part of mainstream Primitive Baptists then. It may be it is "Progressive Primitive Baptist" or part of the Historically Black Tradition churches which retained the name bur changed their beliefs.
Please explain Acts 13:48! ‘ And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.’ and as many as WERE ordained (past tense) to eternal life... what did they do? Believed! Therefore, the ordained to eternal life comes before belief in Christ, Jesus!
@@janeyue7491 context, its talking about that inclusion of Gentiles into the promise that was given to Israel. Proof texts are great... Long as they are in context
No! It matches with the scriptures. In order to believe in Christ, you must be given faith from Him. Faith is a fruit of the spirit, and therefore, belief in Christ is evidence that one is already in possession of eternal salvation. Just like confess! In order to confess the Lord Jesus Christ, one must first be given the Holy Ghost from above through regeneration, , which is from above because 1 Corinthians 12:3 states that no one can confess Jesus is Lord by the Holy Ghost itself. Therefore, just like belief, confess is not something you must do to get into heaven, but it is evidence that the Holy Spirit is in you.
@@janeyue7491 Again context: 44On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. 45But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul. 46Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles. 47For so the Lord has commanded us: ‘I have set you as a light to the Gentiles, That you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ” 48Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. its talking about that inclusion of Gentiles into the promise that was given to Israel.
Notes from Elder Vernon Johnson regarding Acts 13:44-48: “And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.” This shows us the enthusiasm of those who had previously heard the gospel proclaimed by Paul and Barnabas. Their zeal was reflected by their having spread the word throughout the entire city and thus almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. I wonder what it would be like today, if the Lord’s people in the United States who have known the truth of salvation by grace had that same zeal and were willing to talk about it to their friends and neighbors. “But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.” Again we note that the main persecution against the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ came from the religious people. They were filled with jealous envy against those things which were spoken by Paul. While they professed a belief in God, yet their actions contradicted what they claimed to believe. They were contradicting and blaspheming. “Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.” This pattern of speaking first to the Jews would continue wherever Paul and Barnabas would travel preaching the gospel. However, when the Jews rejected the gospel, they quickly turned to the Gentiles, who for the most part were rejoicing to hear the gospel. “For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.” They were referencing the passage in the book of Micah: Micah 5:2 “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. 3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. 4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.” Also Isaiah 42:6 “I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.” “And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.” What a blessing this was that all that were ordained to eternal life believed. This is not teaching as some propose that those who hear and believed received eternal life by believing. Nor does it teach that all that are ordained to eternal life will hear the gospel and believe. Rather it teaches just what it said and that is that on that occasion all that were ordained to eternal life when they heard the gospel they believed.” Hope that helps!
Regarding John 14:6, by this dialogue between Jesus and Thomas we are made to understand that the only way that we can come into a righteous standing with the Father is by the Lord and his work on the cross, because he is the way, the truth, and the life. That is what the Primitive Baptist explains that verse.
they don’t think of themselves as calvinists. Primitive baptists are the definition of what is called hypercalvinism which is considered a heresy by calvinists as well.
The original Baptists were in two factions, the "General Baptists" who were non-Calvinist and the "Particular Baptists" (a famous example being Charles Spurgeon) who were very Calvinist in their soteriology but differed from non-Baptist Calvinists in their views on baptism. "Primitive Baptists" started out as a form of "Particular Baptist".
Any Calvinist would affirm that you have to believe in Jesus in order to be saved; it's that faith itself is a gift of God. To say that random people, some of whom have never even heard the name of Jesus, much less believed in Him, are somehow saved, has nothing to do with Calvinism. It's determinism of the weirdest form.
Calvin's emphasis on predestination and limited salvation runs through a number of denominations, no more so than with the Primitive Baptists, if any are left. I do like their concept that heaven is available to non-Christians.
It's not logical. The Bible is pretty clear on the matter. "call on the name of the LORD Jesus Christ, belive in your heart that God has raised HIM from the dead, and you will be saved."
@@jdgill686 You do not understand the teachings of Calvin, who is followed by several denominations to this day, especially Baptists. He taught that God alone chooses who will go to heaven. You and I can believe anything or do anything, and we will go to Hell, unless we were chosen by him in the cradle. That is what he taught. It is called predestination.
Baptist do not in fact follow Calvin though he wished they did. We all need to read the Trail of Blood by Jim Carroll free online...supported by Papic enemy quotes.
@@ambrosearts My statement was about the Primitive Baptists, not the rest of the Baptists. Listen to the video again, and you will learn that the PBs followed Calvin.
No...I actually understand that point presented. Most Baptists who are Monergistic are in fact not following Calvin as Calvin never actually invented Monergism at all...monergism is Scriptural from cover to cover. Just because someone is monergistic does not at all make them a follower of Calvin is my point which most miss. Grace not Calvinism by Forrest Keener is a great book to read.
No disrespect intended but your statements have several errors & very misleading. One example, I know of NO Primitive Baptist that has ever espoused “Muslims, Hindus, etc” will be saved. One of their stated doctrines is “the only way to the Father is through the Son” which contrasts sharply with your statement. Kindest regards
Perhaps you have not encounter mainstream primitive Baptists then. There are others that use the name but are not mainstream. You are incorrect that this does not represent their beliefs. Even one of the largest Primitive Baptist ministries online have confirmed and shared my videos as accurate representations of their teaching
I spoke to PB yesterday and they absolutely believe just whoever from whatever religion have been chosen. It’s all Gods call regardless of the choices made by people.
