Hey everyone! I just wanted to quickly say I LOVE seeing some of you take the time to really think through your position and articulate it as best you can. Whilst I can't respond to every comment, know that I read every single one and your ideas and beliefs help me refine my own. Keep up the good work and don't shy away from the tough conversations in your own life. DIALOGUE IS THE WAY 🤍
I really liked your take on it. I'm a pro lifer but I recognise areas that are semi grey. In a hypothetical, I wouldn't abort if raped. What if that child was meant to grow up and cure cancer? And I certainly wouldn't abort for downs syndrome (in fact, I refused that testing when I was pregnant with my kids). I've also heard of so many people who were advised to abort because of mental or physical disability but the babies were born healthy.
I think the argument of personhood is too subjective to create a definitive line. We call it human rights and not person rights. The only compromise that satisfies both the right to body autonomy and right to life is allowance of pregnancy ending procedures that separates the baby from the mother but does not directly kill the baby. Early separation will end in the baby dying naturally, while late will allow the baby to live (aka birth). I am not for this as I believe consenting to sex is consenting to the possibility of pregnancy, thus forgoing your body autonomy. However, I must concede that the consent argument is also subjective in nature.
Also, the right to life is considered philosophically as a natural, inalienable right. This means no one bestows it. It is inherent to being a human. If we are considered human at conception, then we have natural human rights at that time.
*Question for you Mr Host (apologies I forgot your name), your assertion that being a human being doesn’t automatically bestow said human with **_personhood,_** what is your objective standard for determining personhood? If human life isn’t enough of a reason to determine personhood then when is your objective standard for where personhood begins? And why is personhood your determining factor?*
The guy who was creepily following you around and trying to give you musk sticks... What a disgusting manchild who can't have a man-to-man conversation. Never stop making these videos man! ♥
Dude. Touching someone’s face like that is just such blatant disrespect, I don’t know how he kept his composure, mad props. After he started touching my face it would have been an instant warning that if that fucking stick touches my face again my fist will touch his face right back.
@@OpticHamster69 yeah it's kinda weird usually when you are asking a question you are intrigued to hear what the other has to say.... I remember in Japan I asked my tour guide ton of questions... not to annoy them or anything but to learn the culture
What I noticed is that the pro lifers are much more tolerant and willing to have a conversation while the pro-choice are less tolerant and filled with anger and hate, not wanting to have a conversation. That's something I hate about liberals. They never live by their definition, if you don't agree with them in the slightest they condemn you as the enemy
Stop calling these people liberal. There is nothing liberal about them other than they are liberal with spending other people's money. They are Leftists.
I have lived some of these "what ifs" When my mother was pregnant with my brother and found out he had down syndrome, she was pressured to abort him constantly, constantly having to combat the "its going to be so hard" and "he's not going to have any quality of life" from doctors and friends. My parents are missionaries, so we grew up dirt poor. I remember sleeping in cars outside a church and the only Christmas presents we had were donated for a majority of my childhood. I have two brothers and a sister. Aside from my brother with DS, the rest of us are now highly educated professionals in our respective fields. We are the preferred zygote, and he is the one with DS. Yet, I would happily die to protect him and id give it all up in a second to keep him safe. His joy is my joy. There is nothing better in this world than his love. It is the single most important thing in my life. In some places in the world, DS is almost "eradicated" as though they are a disease needing to be stamped out. In Western Australia (where i am from), about 93% of DS babies are aborted following the prenatal screening. It just breaks my heart. A DS baby in the womb is a miracle - most don't even survive the first cell division in the womb. They are worthy of life and should be protected from abortion, of which its outcome is eugenics in action. Understanding life at conception, removes all these hypotheticals. There is no grey. There is only human life, and our responsibility to preserve it. Life precedes liberty after all.
Such a distinct difference between the pro-lifers and pro-choicers and they way they speak. The pro-life side is so confident in their position that they don’t need to swear or get personal, they’re willing to have a calm and respectful conversation. The pro-choice side don’t have good arguments so resort to yelling, swearing and personal insults.
Here is my two cents and feel free for anyone to comment if anyone agrees or disagrees. In my opinion, it is really hard to say that this video is an accurate representation of how all pro-lifers and pro-choicers are. I'm sure you had good intentions, but when people say "pro choicers are this... " and "pro-lifers are this....", it pushes a narrative that everyone from the group might be like even though we know it is clearly not the case. I've have seen many examples of the opposite types of behaviour of both groups. I believe not matter what side of the debate you might be on, we should all strive to have a honest conversation rather than devolving to insults and screaming? Aim to respectfully explain your opinion, rather than shame others for theirs if it is different. Calmly listen, instead of stomping out other voices. Cheers!
Of course there’s always exceptions to the rule, I was addressing this video specifically but if I’m honest I do struggle to find a video where the pro-choice side at rallies and protests are rational and willing to have an intelligent conversation. I have seen healthy debate between both sides during organised debates but not in the situations like this.
@@chantellewoodhouse1549 Honestly, I almost entirely agree! While I do think its become increasingly rare to find this kind of rational and respectful conversations on the pro-choice side at rallies, I still try come into every conversation with an open mind and assume good intentions. Of course if they devolve to insults and screaming and etc., I will silently place them into the bubble of "welp there is no point of trying to debate here lol." I do think mob mentality has a huge play, especially in polarizing and emotional topics such as this too.
would be funny to mess with these people by telling them youre actually in their gang or whatever just to shake their noggins a bit and confuse them even more.. but anyway the world is full of idiots like them oh well
Mate, thankyou for making these videos on common ground. I personally really enjoy them, and they open up the conversation that needs to happen within society
@@CommonGroundConversations hope the team see this message but I’d highly recommend taking a look at some of the comments on your community post and Instagram, These videos are becoming a breeding ground for some very disturbing comments to be left, I’m starting to see a lot of people interacting in a very negative way and in no way am I saying it’s anyone’s fault but the commenters, but maybe a PSA to keep things civil or to tone it down would be a solid idea Your guys channel not mine, but some measure should be taken is all I’m saying, stay safe out there 👍
@Just Ask Questions Pro choice here, I actually agree with u for the most part, pro-lifers do have some decent arguments but they’re hellbent on pregnancies being carried to full term, wanting to fill up the foster/ adoption system as it is, for me it’s especially hard to agree with them when they include religion in their arguments. While pro-choicers has zero empathy for the fetus despite unprotected/ failed protection s*xual deeds being the cause of pregnancy in the first place, some of them say horrible stuff like “I love abortion” or calling the fetus a “parasite” where as I believe abortion is reasonable up to a certain extent, because everyone has very different circumstances, and besides it’s 9 months just use protection for goodness sakes.
I have a nephew with down syndrome, his name is Henry, and to hear the words "I think if the baby has down syndrome you should be able to abort" literally sickened me to my core. Abortion is Eugenics
@@PoppyJone Regarding ABORTION, it is pertinent to make mention of a particularly controversial issue, and that is, whether or not an unborn human (whether zygote, embryo, or foetus) is fully human. The undeniable and blatantly obvious fact is, that a child conceived by two parents of the Homo sapiens species (or even cloned from a single parent) is without doubt a unique human being from the very moment of conception. Those in favour of illegal abortion (i.e. killing of an unborn child for unlawful, illicit reasons) are quite adamant that it is perfectly fine to end the life of an unborn child (sometimes even a birthed child, believe it or not!) due to it not being fully-developed, insentient and/or conscious. Any person with adequate intelligence knows that even after an infant child has been birthed, it is STILL not fully developed, since it has yet to pass through the preliminary stages of life such as childhood and adolescence. So then, why stop killing at the foetal stage? Why not destroy the life of a twelve year old boy, since he has not yet fully developed unto adulthood? The fact remains that a human is fully human, regardless of the stage of life in which it is situated. It is not partially human and partially giraffe - it is FULLY human. The aforementioned preliminary stages (zygote, embryo, and foetus) are just that - merely stages of the human life-cycle, and although the life of an embryo may not be quite as morally valuable as that of a five year-old child, that is insufficient justification in itself for destroying its life. Therefore, it is debatable whether or not a human embryo is, by the strictest definitions of the terms, a conscious, sentient person, but it is INDISPUTABLE that it is a human being, worthy of protection, and must not be unlawfully terminated in a just society. It is indeed fortuitous that the mothers of outstanding historic personalities such as Lords Krishna, Buddha, and Jesus decided to not murder their precious offspring! Personally, I don’t think that I could ever condone the abortion of a child, by a woman in my family, even if it was morally-permissible, because I could NEVER perform the act of inserting my arm into the uterus of my mother, one of my wives or daughters, and manually extracting the embryo or foetus. And if I could not bring myself to perform such a despicable deed myself, I ought not pay a (so-called) doctor to execute the baby on my behalf. As a strict vegan, I sometimes feel faintly guilty destroying the life of an insect, such as a mosquito or an ant, even when it is attacking me or my food supply, what to speak of terminating the life of a fellow human being, the most highly-evolved species of life in the known universe! It would be far preferable for me to encourage my daughter, wife or mother to give birth to the child and then relinquish it to an adoptive family. See Chapter 12 of “A Final Instruction Sheet for Humanity” (“F.I.S.H”) to learn the distinction between legitimate abortion and illegal abortion, and to understand metaethics/morality in general. In summary, abortion is legitimate only in the case of rape or if the mother’s life is at risk. To read “F.I.S.H”, which is, without the slightest shadow of a doubt, by FAR the most important work of literature ever composed, Email the address listed on the "About" page of my RU-vid channel, with the acronym “FISH” in the subject field. 🐟
Yeah this dude has some very strange beliefs about disability. And rape. Kinda scary actually, that he thinks it’s totally ok to abort a child with a disability but that someone who had unprotected sex and doesn’t want to go through pregnancy is immoral. I don’t get how one brain could think both of those things.
@@friendlyfishindia2246 oh, that guy! Thanks! Will check it after work. Do you know Peter boghassian? He does interesting exercises on university campuses.
@@lukemclellan2141 only video I've seen of his thus far is the one regarding transgenders in sports and whether they should participate in sports based on their sex. it's really frustrating to hear how many college students can't reason without becoming hostile or intolerant
It’s scary how people are against having a simple convo. It’s a clear indicator of a cult following. Literally every cult has this exact rule/belief. Keep it up man. It’s incredibly brave and impressive how well you have these convos. I can understand how hard it is. Much appreciated.
I’m pro choice but from what was presented in this video the pro-lifers were more open to dialogue in this particular protest, that I can’t deny and it’s unfortunate that most people from the other group weren’t open to dialogue
Hi! Just a heads up, I kinda copied parts of another comment I made in this response: Here is my two cents and feel free for anyone to comment if anyone agrees or disagrees. In my opinion, it is really hard to say that this video is an accurate representation of how all pro-lifers and pro-choicers are. I'm sure you had good intentions, but when people say "pro choicers are this... " and "pro-lifers are this....", it pushes a narrative that everyone from the group might be like even though we know it is clearly not the case. I've have seen many examples of the opposite types of behaviour of both groups. I believe not matter what side of the debate you might be on, we should all strive to have a honest conversation rather than devolving to insults and screaming? Aim to respectfully explain your opinion, rather than shame others for theirs if it is different. Calmly listen, instead of stomping out other voices. Cheers!
@@JohnBrown-yr4wi I’ve been attending a free speech society at my university for almost 5 years now. For a year and a half of that time I ran the society. I know this is completely anecdotal evidence but the samples of this video are absolutely indicative of the attitudes of pro-lifers vs pro-choicers on university campuses. Now I’ve spoken to many on the pro-choice side who are completely reasonable and articulate with well thought-out arguments and the same for pro-life. That being said, the articulate pro-choicers tend to be older, somewhat more traditional feminists. There’s a trend amongst the young and “woke” for lack of a better term to assume unreservedly that their position is correct and that anyone who disagrees must be inherently immoral or oppressive. They are then justified, in their mind, in being aggressive to these people.
As a prolifer, I have to thank you for this material. It's hard to find anyone online who approaches the topic without being extremely biased towards one or the other side and you managed to handle this really well.
I would agree. But once a topic has been thought out thoroughly and a decision has been landed on its hard to seem not biased. Once firm in your position because of your confidence in logic and morals, it can come off ass arrogant or biased or many other things. But the reality is, that you are settled on a position you have put great thought into. Confidence in your position is not bias, just to be clear. I do agree there is typically bias during this topic, but not always, and sometimes it's not so clear what bias is regarding such a topic. Food for thought.
@@spec24 fair... You're comment is shadow banned too BTW. I can only see your comment in my notifications. Tyrants HATE when you call them out. They can't handle being questioned even if it's from a couple of serfs like us
How is he not biased when he states at the beginning of the video he is pro-life (with some exemption)? Maybe he seemed unbiased because he's not pro-life in the extremes that you are, but he's is pro-life leaning, not unbiased.
I was saddened by the talk of those with Down syndrome. I worked with youths, and we had a boy that had Down syndrome in the group, and it brought me so much joy to see how the other kids brought him in, stood up for him, were patient with him, and would take time to talk with him. That young boy taught the other kids so many life lessons about humanity, empathy, and how to be kind to those who aren’t like you.
It makes me think that he hasn't met any people with down syndrome yet. They ain't an abomination of nature that you have to get rid off nor are they sad about their limited mental capabilities. They can live a happy and fruitful life and many do.
I came here just to make sure someone else was saying the same thing! OMG. I feel so SO bad for this guy. It is so limiting to view people through some preconceived notion of what makes one valuable. I genuinely think he hasn't really thought through this. Either that or he's never met a Down Syndrome kid!
There are people out there who reasonably aren’t able to raise a child of Down syndrome or other mental illness. Just because some people are capable of raising them, doesn’t mean most people are.
Well said, imagine playing God like that. Also the doctors have gotten those tests wrong before, parents commit to bringing a downs syndrome child into the world only to find it doesn't have downs, just shocking.
@@CommonGroundConversations Regarding ABORTION, it is pertinent to make mention of a particularly controversial issue, and that is, whether or not an unborn human (whether zygote, embryo, or foetus) is fully human. The undeniable and blatantly obvious fact is, that a child conceived by two parents of the Homo sapiens species (or even cloned from a single parent) is without doubt a unique human being from the very moment of conception. Those in favour of illegal abortion (i.e. killing of an unborn child for unlawful, illicit reasons) are quite adamant that it is perfectly fine to end the life of an unborn child (sometimes even a birthed child, believe it or not!) due to it not being fully-developed, insentient and/or conscious. Any person with adequate intelligence knows that even after an infant child has been birthed, it is STILL not fully developed, since it has yet to pass through the preliminary stages of life such as childhood and adolescence. So then, why stop killing at the foetal stage? Why not destroy the life of a twelve year old boy, since he has not yet fully developed unto adulthood? The fact remains that a human is fully human, regardless of the stage of life in which it is situated. It is not partially human and partially giraffe - it is FULLY human. The aforementioned preliminary stages (zygote, embryo, and foetus) are just that - merely stages of the human life-cycle, and although the life of an embryo may not be quite as morally valuable as that of a five year-old child, that is insufficient justification in itself for destroying its life. Therefore, it is debatable whether or not a human embryo is, by the strictest definitions of the terms, a conscious, sentient person, but it is INDISPUTABLE that it is a human being, worthy of protection, and must not be unlawfully terminated in a just society. It is indeed fortuitous that the mothers of outstanding historic personalities such as Lords Krishna, Buddha, and Jesus decided to not murder their precious offspring! Personally, I don’t think that I could ever condone the abortion of a child, by a woman in my family, even if it was morally-permissible, because I could NEVER perform the act of inserting my arm into the uterus of my mother, one of my wives or daughters, and manually extracting the embryo or foetus. And if I could not bring myself to perform such a despicable deed myself, I ought not pay a (so-called) doctor to execute the baby on my behalf. As a strict vegan, I sometimes feel faintly guilty destroying the life of an insect, such as a mosquito or an ant, even when it is attacking me or my food supply, what to speak of terminating the life of a fellow human being, the most highly-evolved species of life in the known universe! It would be far preferable for me to encourage my daughter, wife or mother to give birth to the child and then relinquish it to an adoptive family. See Chapter 12 of “A Final Instruction Sheet for Humanity” (“F.I.S.H”) to learn the distinction between legitimate abortion and illegal abortion, and to understand metaethics/morality in general. In summary, abortion is legitimate only in the case of rape or if the mother’s life is at risk. To read “F.I.S.H”, which is, without the slightest shadow of a doubt, by FAR the most important work of literature ever composed, Email the address listed on the "About" page of my RU-vid channel, with the acronym “FISH” in the subject field. 🐟
My brother was diagnosed Down syndrome in the womb. My parents where pushed to abort him. When he was born he was in no way Down syndrome he grew up to be an honors student with a 4.0. A state wrestling champion and very amazing athlete. He is now on an LDS mission in Hong Kong!
My biggest disagreement with you is a child who may be physically or mentally disabled and it makes sense that people who have not had experience with having a child with these struggles would say that but having a child with physical differences and medical needs has shown me just how valuable his life is. Hard, yes, but no less valuable. Also, I had a healthy son end up getting sick, we are never promised health or for mental capacity even if we start with it. If health decides value then we all may not be as valuable some day.
Openness leads to corruption, stay close minded. 2 Chronicles 15:12-13 And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.
@@Halo4beatsB02 It should be noted that his comment of ‘openness leads to corruption, stay close minded’ is not what is said in 2 Chronicles. Those are his words. I agree with the OP that open mindedness, paired with wisdom, is what Christ desires of us
@@heisenberg9494 actually what Christ desires of you is that you believe in dogmas and unprovable things...just because someone said so...any kind of religion is built on those foundations...
Bro one of the best channels out here on youtube , the way you have created such an informative intro and explaining your stance and my stance as well.
The lady that said you were incels and that you misuse footage was my english teacher in high school - so sad she had to resort to becoming that person - I remember her being a nuanced person.
Met Rich today and my missus and I had a conversation with him, he really is a beast at leading a productive conversation and making people feel comfortable in front of the camera. Bloody legend. Keep these coming mate! 🤝
Most pro lifers, myself included, don't consider situations involving a risk to the mother's life an abortion at all. There's a difference between going in and removing the baby to save the mother while also giving the baby the best chance to still survive and going in with the express intent of killing the baby.
Imagine being a pro lifer. God have mercy on America. Very grateful to love I’m a country where woman have choice. Abortion isn’t murder, as it isn’t a human.
@@Baillie. imagine being a pro abortion advocate who thinks murdering babies is good. You do know that a huge number of aborted babies are in low income black neighborhoods right? You cool with that? Sounds racist to me. Super cringe 😬
Wow that pregnant lady was so cordial. Its so interesting to see you talk about such a personal thing for so many people and yet they calm as a cucumber.
Okay okay. I would consider myself more on the pro choice here, that said. God. Franking. Damn. What a difference on manners, respect and tolerance on the pro Life party. Holy sh** you never where assaulted, threaten or even looked upon, which again, perhaps I wont share their views but I LOVE the way they alow you to say what you have to say, make your point and THEN, go with their "counter"-argument, which makes the pro choice look not only uninformed and stupid, but loose any support they could hace. The left really needs to star to understand that being unable to talk to makes you unable to listen to. As allways mate, awesome work. Please keep It up, we need more people like you.
But shouldnt that make you question your viewpoint if the people you agree with are all crazy coocoo's who assault people?i feel like the chance that mentaly stable polite and kind people who wabt to protect life have the moral highground here....im pro life except if the mothers life is at risk or if its provable that the baby will die from health reasons thats the only exception
@@davidmaltais2912 I hear you dude, I hear you… But we believe pregnancy is a very complicated topic, and that everyone has very different circumstances but most of all… I don’t want crazy people like this having kids :/, it’s okay to have lots of empathy for the fetus (it grows more and more human qualities the more it develops), but 9 months is a long time and it often feels like pro-life aims to have every single child born no matter what the circumstances, although it may be morally correct, I think banning abortion could do more harm than good.
@@davidmaltais2912 I think it's important to weigh up your viewpoints based on the merits of the view itself and not how much you like the people on one side and dislike the people on the other.
Many people belive that brain dead humans (even though they are still biologically speaking alive) don't qualify for personhood and so we can pull the plug on them. Is that a disasterous consequence? Should we keep brain dead people on life support until they die of old age? Many other people belive that if a non-human reaches similar or greater levels of mental complexity to humans (e.g. a particularly smart non-human animal, an sentient AI, or the God of the bible) they should have personhood extended to them, even though they are not human. Is that a disastrous consequence?
Seeing people like you on RU-vid, who are sincerely interested in exploring ethical topics and rationalising your way to an answer rather than repeating talking points come up by others without challenging them or thinking them through, is very reassuring and inspirational.
It made him look dumb tbh you can see his hands shaking while he does it as well. He’s like that annoying younger relative that annoys you so much then cries when you do something about it 😂
@@CommonGroundConversations If a person is thinking of becoming a parent, then they should ask themselves whether they are ready for that responsibility. The primary responsibility of a parent is to look after the needs of their children no matter what. The "no matter what" part includes the scenarios in which the children are ill or disabled or need any special care at all. Children come as they are. You don't get to choose how your children will turn out. Even if you get tests done before they are born, you have to know that false negatives are possible, and also that not all possible conditions even have tests. If you are fixated on having children that are "perfect" both physically and mentally, then you are not going to be a good parent. Until you learn to accept the genetic lottery and to accept that no matter how that lottery turns out, it is still your responsibility to look after your children, you are absolutely not ready for the responsibility of having children.
Please keep up the good work and don't let people get you down. What your doing is very important and we need lots more like you that challenges people's view but without force only logic.
I challenge you to get to know some individuals with Down Syndrome, they're perfectly capable of contributing to society and living normal lives. In fact I would even go as far as to say they contribute MORE than many that don't have down syndrome because they're more compassionate, caring and loving people than most. My little brother has down syndrome and he's an amazing young man.
I've met and worked with people who have Down Syndrome. I think your claim that "they're perfectly capable of contributing to society and living normal lives" depends heavily on how you define "contributing" and "normal". From my experience, those with a significant mental disability (such as Down Syndrome) are far from being capable of "contributing" (if anything, their very existence relies entirely on the contribution of others to sustain their life) or living a "normal" life. I think that's a hard truth we tend to avoid in the name of compassion.
@@CommonGroundConversations Everyone who is different from you contributes a different perspective on life. Your hatred of disabled people is thinly veiled and is something that you should strive to overcome if you are genuinely interested in moral goodness. You should value the responsibility of caring for others and the knowledge that in doing so you are doing good.
@@CommonGroundConversations I understand you see contributing to society as the traditional make money, be successful, have a family ect. and while I agree a person with severe mental disabilities will not be capable of these things a child that was born "normal" but nearly drowns and suffers severe brain damage may not be either, yet you would love that child just the same as before. It comes down to love honestly, if you do not love someone that has a severe physical or mental disability you won't likely have the same perspective and that's ok. I hope you can experience the love that so many of us have someday
these replies are ridiculous. does it not make sense that a down syndrome person needs the support of other people to survive? if that’s not the case, why don’t we leave those people to their own devices?
There’s so much visible difference between people who are pro life and pro choice. The ones that are pro life are so well spoken and polite. They don’t constantly hurl insults and scream when asked questions.
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again… I wish I lived in AUS so I could stand the chance of having a conversation with you guys in the street, I think it’s incredible that you even want to start the dialogues, it’s clearly needed judging by how many participants at these protests aren’t even willing to take a few minutes with you to justify their reasons for attending the protest (pro-choice) in the first place. I’m in my mid 40’s and Christian, and only in the last 2 years have I gone from pro-choice to pro-life, that goes to show that ethical perspectives can change. You guys keep up the great work! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
“Lump of cells” doesn’t cut it for me. I’ve been pregnant 5 times and I’ve lost 3. That kind of heart ache isn’t for a “lump of cells” I’ve seen my babies at 7 weeks, there’s a flickering heartbeat, 10 weeks it looks like a little human jumping around, 20 weeks they can tell you whether a life is viable and they’ve developed everything they need to they just need to grow important organs and put on weight (obviously there are other changes but I’m summarising) To say that life isn’t a life is abhorrent and quite offensive. It absolutely is a life and an human completely seperate from its mother, the placenta has a fetal and maternal side which is used to nourish and give blood and oxygen to the baby through the umbilical cord. Lump of cells is an offence to your own existence.
I reckon the point he was trying to make was the philosphical question behind how is personhood granted which is highly controversual as it is and ranges with different people depending on their experiences and perspectives. In his view as a father he thinks the first trimester period is that "lump of cells" period where abortions are "ok" since his stance states they don't have personhood, in other terms the right to live. You a mother of 2 kids with sadly 3 failed births, it actually is sad you had to go through that don't get me wrong, would have a significantly different view to him. The point is he's calling the fetus at the VERY first stages a lump of cells with 0 conciousness or semblance of a human, not someone past the first trimester which he has stated clearly in this video and previous ones.
I understand what you are saying and not that I think men should be out of the conversation because I don’t think that at all, however I don’t think men can ever know what it is like to connect to a being inside of their body, it is not a science experiment it is a very spiritual and sacred experience. Even my husband who has been with me every step of every pregnancy could never have the perspective I have, and he didn’t experience the same pain I did when I lost my 3 babies. Even when I had medical care and they called it “product of conception” it felt like a punch to the guts. We as women are this way for a reason, hyper emotional, in need of connection beings because we are the ones that grow and birth life into the world and then go on to nurture and protect that life that is a huge bloody deal and I dislike when we use terminology that disconnects us from that fundamental, biological instinct. You see it everywhere.
@@emilyberetta5941 I understand your point and fully agree with it too. I reckon the guy in this video probably should also consider how women's experiences are way different to the man's experience when it comes to conceiving a child and raising one as well and how that can affect things like personhood and abortion. That's what makes this topic so controversial, there's so many different views on when, if at all, a fetus should have personhood which is impossible to have everyone agree on so compromises must be made. Rules will change but will most likely continuously change as a result of difference in views and opinions on this matter as time goes on. A good example is thr abortion laws in America where at one point it was illegal, them became legal...until recently when states like Florida outright banned abortions. Thanks for your input, it was nice to hear your views on the "lump of cells" argument and how it made you feel and why it did.👍
You sound like you should stop having sex because children are dying because of it. According to your logic anyway. You are murdering children since you have lost three of them. Stop having sex because your argument for antiabortion does not work when you are the one getting pregnant and killing them.
There's a significant difference between a person and the potential for a person. There is absolutely a period during which what's inside the womb is not a person but a lump of cell. A person looks like a person, has a manifested consciousness, has functioning organs. Generally when those fail and cannot be saved, is when we tend to pull the plug, when we pull the plug. A 3 weeks fetus has none of that : it's a lump of cells. If you pull it out of the womb, and let it live, it does not survive. I understand that mothers form an emotional connection to said lump of cells, but that doesn't make it less (or more) of a lump of cells. You get attached to the *idea* of having a baby, but it's not yet a baby. It will become one if everything goes normally, but it's not there yet. Forming a motherly and emotional connection to the idea of a baby does not change that fact. I once was a lump of cells, and it's not offensive. Even more, at some point, I was still inside of my father's balls, and it's not offensive. This is generally when I tell people to grow a skin, because none of this is offensive. If you choose to be offended by this, that is your problem. In regards to "considering women's experiences" in that discussion, we have to not forget that we have the discussion so that we can make legal prescriptions. What is, legally, a person ? That's the question. We're having the philosophical discussion about that question, but only so that we can make a law about it. I'm not going to prison for murdering a 2-cells organism, sorry. It is life, it is *a* life, but it is not a person, it is not a baby. So going back on women's experiences, women have experiences on both sides of the conversation, "considering women's experiences" doesn't bring us closer to some sort of solution. Women are certainly happy to ignore men's experiences, specifically in that discussion, so let's not fool ourselves. I would even argue that Rich here is absolutely considering women's experiences and opinions, and that only men ever do that, consider everyone's side. I've never seen a woman put such a concept to practice. I've seen women be pro-life, or pro-choice, but none of them ever try to see other people's points of view seriously. It's either "I'm pro-life and pro-choicers are murderers", or "I'm pro-choice and men don't get a say because they don't have a uterus" (exacly why the pro-choicers in this video are such disgusting human beings). It's absolutely nuts, by the way, that nowadays the pro-lifers are the reasonable people, it blows my mind, as 10 years ago it was the reverse. So Rich here is reaching out to both sides, giving both sides a ground to explain their arguments. He's actively trying to get the best of both perspectives, and I don't see any woman doing that. Ultimately I would say that's the reason why men are the ones making laws, and that as soon as women are seriously involved in that process, things tend to go to crap because they don't consider other's experiences, just their own. It's fine to have a personal bias or a personal preference, but Rich is letting women say their piece, and on both sides, their piece is mostly emotional and does not bring much to the discussion. It's really unfair to say he's not considering women's experiences. But if women's experience leads to stuff like "you murdered a 2-cells organism", then sorry I'm personally disregarding that, and men should disregard that. I hear you and I get why one would think and even say that, but I'm staying level-headed and I'm not letting that happen because it's ridiculous. Feelings don't matter. I have feelings about all sorts of things, but 1) nobody cares about them, because I'm a man, and 2) feelings are constantly leading us to make objectively bad decisions, mine included, women's included.
The pregnant woman and her husband have some very blessed children at home. It's so refreshing to see such level headed, kind, and empathetic people willing to hear others out and have calm and cooperative discussions. I wish more teachers were like her ❤
How does asking someone why they are pro-choice at a rally makes you an incel or fascist? Edit: also feels like a lack of confidence in their own belief when someone responds like that. I truly believe that if someone was firm in their pov, they would be ok with having their thoughts dissected and/or can simply say that they don’t want to talk to you without being a dick.
As an American I wish I could have a discussion with you about abortion. I'm someone who went from considering himself pro-choice to unapologetically pro-life. I even recently did a stream on my own channel regarding whether or not men should have a say in abortion. Keep doing what you're doing. We need to be having these conversations.
Our world needs more critical thinkers like you. These days people thrive on being offended and angry and cannot engage in rational discussion. Keep up the good work, these conversations are extremely important ❤
Is it so hard to have a honest conversation nowadays rather than devolving to insults and screaming? Rather than respectfully explaining your opinion, they shame others for theirs if it is different. Instead of calmly listening, they stomp out your voice with theirs. For such a supposedly compassionate and inclusive group, they are sometimes anything but that. Thank you to Richard and your team for all your videos and always striving for honest open discussions. Whatever people may stand on the topic, I hope that they can at least take away how to be respectful, curious, and insightful in a debate, discussion, etc just like you were right here. Cheers!
Would be interesting to see you do one on MAID. I'm from Canada and in March they will be expanding the bill to include those with mental Illness. We went from "get vaccinated to save people from death" to "you feeling sad? How about you sleep forever?". It sounds insane. Once again great amount of patience and great conversations. Keep up the great work.
Pro choicers: refused to even have a conversation even though he showed no disagreement Pro lifers: actually listened, welcomed him into the crowd, and had a real conversation, they didn’t just cuss him off
i really respect that you stayed calm with the stick guy. i got annoyed and im sitting at home.... Real good example how to deal with such people. Your Videos are really interesting and make you reflect your own opinion. Thank you.
What I love about this is it made me think about how I would explain my pro-life position to you if you were asking me the questions. You play devil's advocate in a sense in order to make the interviewee think. That helps the quality of the videos tremendously. The process of dialogue with different people; not their pre-concieved ideas is what makes this worth engaging. Otherwise I could just look up the positions of both sides and save myself time watching people try to say the same things over and over again. I am glad I am a subscriber. I hope that you are able at some point to have sit down conversations with people. Whether it being you as a moderator or you on one side and a well-known proponent of the other side of the debate across from you; depending on the issue and where you stand.
I really appreciate how you really are trying to seek truth. Love how you updated your opinion. I’d really encourage you to think about how you are placing value on someone based on their capabilities/“worth”. To me, that’s eugenics. Yes, the ideal situation would be to have healthy babies. Absolutely. But their value stays the same regardless of the circumstance.
I'm in the process of watching... as I do... I want to mention: You're a strong, awesome, bloke. You show true integrity in grappling deeply with the subject. I'm glad you seem to be coming to very reasonable, thought out, and respectable views. Being so public in your pursuit of truth and goodness shows how incredible a bloke you are. Well done mate.
Even though I don’t agree with your opinions, I have to give you massive respect for your way of debating. I love that you debate for the purpose of building an opinion. Way too many think of opinions as a sports team. They think that they have to stand by their opinion no matter what. Keep it up!
Thanks William! Love the sports team comparison, that's so true. If we 'pick a team' and want them to 'win', we close ourselves off from genuine communication.
@@CommonGroundConversations Thanks bro! I have a question that kind of mixes up the entire abortion question. If abortion is murder and life starts at conception, wouldn’t it count as two murders to kill a pregnant woman? Let’s say it does. Would your exceptions count there as well? Would it not count as a murder if the child has Down’s syndrome or (maybe) if the woman was raped?
I love how well you set up the beginning of the video. I love that you go into the nitty gritty details and completely explain what you believe AND the humility of possibly being wrong. Good on you, been a subscriber for a while and am super glad I did!
Pro-life here. Used to say I didn't care, but as they pushed more and more extremes, they eventually crossed a point where without thought I knew that was too much. Then I was forced to consider if that scenario was wrong, why aren't these others that I was willing to ignore? Bit by bit I realized I couldn't separate the scenarios morally or justify one case over another
@@CommonGroundConversations I struggle most with the first scenario. I am still unable to come up with a moral difference for the baby. The baby still didn't do any wrong, let alone something worthy of the death penalty. But...let's say we are ok with am exception for that case. Do we allow it based on the accusation or does it need to be decided in a criminal case? I'd say we'd have to prove the case first otherwise anyone will just make a claim. But how confident are we that the legal system can process cases in
@@CommonGroundConversations getting an abortion isn't going to "unrape" the woman. It's only going to cause further trauma. Down syndrome scenario is just arguing for eugenics, which is sketchy territory.
@@nich_o_las I agree. Abortion isn't going to change that, but I think we all underestimate just how difficult and life-changing going through with a pregnancy is, especially when you aren't ready for it. The woman didn't ask for it, and yes, the baby didn't ask for it, and now comes the question of choosing the lesser of the two evils- forcing the mother to go through all that, or killing the baby. I am personally pro-choice, but I would draw the line at around 18 weeks, ie, a bit more than the first trimester. I think that's enough time for making a decision.
@@CommonGroundConversations I want to understand why you would support abortion in down's syndrome cases. Is it because of the financial situation? Is it because the baby can't contribute significantly to the society? When it comes to rape, I think it should available to all those women till the first trimester, which, I think, is enough time to decide. That's where the value of life comes into picture. you're absolutely right in saying we don't value all life equally, or everyone would've turned vegan by now. Distinction needs to be made. Do we value a life of a cow, for instance, more than we value our need for nutrition and our health? We don't. But would anyone approve of dog meat? I don't think so. Similarly, would we put the life of the fetus over the career and potential of a woman? Or maybe, would we put the life of the fetus over that of our pets? These are all questions we need to ask ourselves and come to a consensus.
By choosing between a life with or without "a problem" (e.g. down syndrome), I think we need to take a step back and rethink. Who am I to judge what life is worthy to live? its not even about who´s life is more worthy. It is that You put worth on something.We dont even know with 100% certainty wether or not a person with down syndrome might develop the cure for cancer or other big human achievements. I personally think that putting worth into something works well with things and structures but not with lifes. No life is the judge for someones other life to be granted worth. It is inherent. When I was on the streets and I get asked which life I had to abort I let a coin decide.
I think it’s largely a consequence of intellectual safe spaces being created for young people. They’re taught, implicitly and explicitly, that people who disagree with them are bad people and that the appropriate response is to silence ‘hate speech’. Instead, they should be encouraged to test and scrutinise all of their beliefs in the pursuit of what is true and what is good.
Hey man, thank you for making the videos. I know it must be tough talking to some of these people, but you’re asking the important questions and that’s a great thing. Keep up the great videos 👍
I don't if know you remember but I commented on your first episode of "pro life or pro choice" and ,to be honest, I was already expecting that you would "become" a pro lifer....and guess what I was right. Keep up the INCREDIBLE work
You were not right. He says here that he is okay with killing disabled children and the children of rapists. The first is _literally_ a Nazi policy, and the second is punishing a child for the crime of his or her father.
@@omp199 to be honest I forgot that the pro-lifers are against abortion even in case of rape(wich I am not btw). And the thing with the disabled kids ,I get where he's coming from, he's basicly saying that if the baby had a disability and that disability makes so that the quality of life of the baby is put at risk it would be acceptable for someone to get a abortion(btw I agree with him in this one too but only in more extreme cases)
@@ovossocomentador6049 It is not about the quality of the child's life. It's not as if the child can trade in a low-quality life for a higher-quality one. We each get only one life, and that's it. There is no sense in trying to compare one person's life to another's. Nobody knows any life but their own. Lives cannot be compared if you can only experience one life. Everyone should be helped to have the best life that they can have, and that is all that anyone can expect.
What an amazing video. Thank you so much for doing this. I am strongly pro-life and want to understand the other side better. It strengthens my arguments and opens up better dialogue. Great video man. Also I never use religion to back my reasoning... and that's a big struggle I have with our movement.
I have never seen your videos before but from your intro I think this is the best explanation of the issue and the two sides I have ever seen. Personally, I have been on the pro-choice side (moderately) until recently but, after hearing some arguments and being open to question my stand and thought process, I now consider myself on the pro-life side. Same as you, I have some exceptions: 1. if the mother's life is significantly in danger due to complications, 2. if the baby suffers from sever medical problems (I think here maybe should exist a conversation on what is considered severe, I don't know). Personally, (from the POV of a woman) I don't agree with the r*pe situation. I still think that is the life of a human, regardless of the method of conception or who the father is. I think two wrongs do not make one right, instead we might try and offer more support to the women in this situation. Also, as you said, I think we should focus more on preventing the issue rather than solving a problem. (this goes for abortions in general)
He's a fine young man, but not a God. 10 years ago I would lol and like the comment, but now I care about you and your future. Do not call men God please. You obviously aren't obligated to listen to me, but I can try
@@CB13212 I'm very relaxed over here. I'm trying to drop some knowledge and if nobody wants it, that's up to them. I know he didn't mean it literally. What I'm saying is that God is real, and when we die, we will meet God. I'm concerned for people who blaspheme God. Like I said, if it was the old me I would have lold and moved on. Now I see it as a serious offense against God. And personally, after being so close to death, it's not a game I care to play anymore.
I was date raped at 20 by my college classmate who was 56. It was my birthday and our class went to celebrate. I got into the situation by: 1. Going to the bar with people I didn't truly know 2. Leaving my drink unattended when I went to the bathroom. It is true that majority of cases could have been prevented if different decisions had been made prior. Then there are cases where it's a child and an adult and they can't even consent to begin with and aren't responsible for situations that the adult should be responsible for.
I’ve been sexually assaulted a few times, and each time I can easily look back and say why was I a 13 year old hanging out smoking cigs with 16 year old boys in an abandoned apt? What did I think would happen? Why was I 16 and going to buy my mom and I drugs from a 22 year old man? Why did I accept a drink from him? Is it ever okay for a man to assault a woman in that way? No it’s not, but I also have to take some responsibility for putting myself in that situation.
@@user-lt1jd1ye3vthe rape victim is never at fault for the rape. However, we have to stop teaching girls and boys alike that the world is a safe, great place. The smarter we can be and have common sense to get out of situations before they escalate or just not get into a sketchy situation to begin with, a lot less of these would occur. That’s not placing blame, that’s understanding that the world is an evil place.
I’m pro choice and believe abortions should be allowed, but I also believe that we need to teach men and women about sex and abortion in a more strict way to keep women from having unwanted pregnancies in the first place.
I really have to spell out a few basic rules here. (Though I think our host already knows this.) 1. "It is not a baby." This is a cop out. Just like "It is not a life." You aren't able to define life or a baby without completely excluding all people who are already borne. 2. "It is a parasite." This is worse than cop out or sophistry. No medical professional worth a penny would classify a fetus that way. In fact, the person making that statement is more likely to actually be a parasite on society than the baby. 3. Religious arguments can only convince people who most likely already agree with you. 4. Rape and incest are statistically irrelevant. We do not use extreme cases to make policy for normal situations. Don't bring them up. 5. You can make a distinction between a moral and a pragmatic argument. For instance, what you think is right and moral, may not be what is pragmatic and should dictate the laws. 6. The criteria for when a life starts is not the same as the criteria for when a life ends. Becoming brain dead (when a person LOSES all their brain activity) is the common criteria for death, but in the case of birth, even a baby/fetus that has no brain activity yet will most likely gain brain activity as it grows if simply left to its natural process. 7. Conception, when the sperm meets the egg, is not the start of viability. If it does not attach to the womb there is no pregnancy.
I watched the video for the first 4 minutes. You gained a sub here. You're exactly what I stand for my man, and your content is very interesting to say the least
What I got between the pro life and pro choice Pro choice people: either they don’t speak uses underhanded words in a conversation uses hate speech if you don’t support them are close minded and sometimes they’re open minded and they speak properly. Pro life people: Open minded people that can speak from the heart and also are most of the time kind people in general.
appreciate you bro having the courage to have these conversations and go to the rallies and engage with people. can see youve done heaps of thinking and research on it. good stuff!
I love your distinction between what you want vs what is moral. That is very true and I think it would be great if more people realized that. You can even apply that idea to your exceptions as well. If my child has a terrible disability or medical condition would I WANT to save myself and my child the pain of living/dying with that (maybe) but is it moral to kill the disabled? Isn’t it better for that child to die in the loving arms of their mother and father instead of at the abortionist’s hands? There are many disabled people who speak out as adults and say that even though their lives may be difficult or even painful they are still very happy to be alive.
Very much appreciate your commitment to honest and rational dialogue. When conversation falls into slander it is most often a clear sign that your stance is not well supported and falling apart.
First of all, I appreciate the focus on having an open dialogue and listening to one another. Your gentle approach helped me to listen more open-mindedly than ever before. I truly appreciated how you honed in on the key issue of whether one life is more valuable than another. Here’s my thoughts on a few things from this video: You mentioned the concept of having limited resources and aborting a baby with special needs for that reason. This is never black and white, however. What if you can’t get pregnant again after this specific pregnancy? What if there are both free nom-profit and government-based resources available to help with insurance, food, medical bills, and baby supplies? (There are!) What if having a baby with a disability is exactly what you (or someone else in the family) needed to learn some invaluable lessons about life and love? What if you will fall in love with your baby despite any diagnosis? (You will!) What if your financial picture will improve over time to the point where you could afford more children? There are so many unknowns when having a child…. it is unrealistic to think that you can predict whether or not it would not “better” to have a neurotypical child. (P.S. Even neurotypical kids could have major struggles with addiction, academics, social situations, and more!) Secondly, here’s the deal: You simply cannot predict the figure with any real certainty. As time goes on, however, as we get better as a society at genetic testing, we will likely be able to predict more and more about our child before birth. If it is morally okay to abort for a disability, what about aborting for hair or eye color, the sex of the baby, or even a personality or temperament? This is a very slippery slope. Plus, how often do you realize years after something happens that you didn’t want that it was exactly what you needed for some reason? Lastly, you mentioned that the pro-choicers seemed entitled and arrogant. I think that there are some interesting pro-choice arguments, but at the core, putting your own career/college goals, financial situation, etc. above someone else’s right to life is entitled and arrogant. No offense intended, but I do find it interesting how obvious this was on these interviews.
Great job man. You really handled the hate as well as you could. Most people would flip their lid and start getting aggressive if people were shoving things in their face. That's the perfect attitude to have for your videos. You set a good example.
I would encourage you to look deeper into your exception of physical and mental disability. I am someone with a disability and although I have had tough challenges in my life. I have been able to overcome and adapt to those challenges and live a life of purpose and contribution.
One day, in 7th grade. Our social studies teacher made us learn about the dialogue and what conversation is, she said it’s really important now for us in society to understand what a dialogue is since nowadays society is really messed up and can’t have a simple respectful conversation, now I get what she means. Till this day I remember this lesson, and stay really disappointed in those who still can’t have a simple respectful conversation with someone as it’s super important in society to have respectful conversations. Nobody’s here to argue, they’re just here to give out opinions and respect the other person’s opinions politely and respectfully, I love my social studies teacher for this. She also made me learn about how cruel society can get to, and how stupid they are. Now I’m in 8th grade, and this teacher still teaches me till this day and makes me and my classmates learn more and even practice how a respectful conversation is or a respectful dialogue is. A dialogue also has simple rules to be followed by,, 1 - respecting the others opinion about the topic. 2 - to have one topic to speak about,, 3 - no interruptions at all. 4 - don’t let hatred or anger get to you,, it’s better to realize that you’re wrong and say “I’m sorry, I just realized I was wrong. Thank you for making me realize that now and giving me more knowledge on this topic” please do not be a narcissist (narcissist usually never admit they’re wrong no matter what.) 5 - do not walk away from the conversation/dialogue until it’s finished and don’t ignore at all. For the younger viewers who are reading my comment, I hope you all also focus on what a true dialogue or a true conversation means. It’s never too late to realize you’re wrong in a topic nor is it too late to admit you’re wrong, since admitting you’re wrong won’t make things worse it would just be a polite way and to show that ur brain is more mature then adults themselves. I’m pretty sure the person who is having a conversation or a dialogue with you will understand that you thought of a certain topic in a wrong way, and that’s not a problem every human makes a mistake not everybody has to be right about everything, correct, hm? Also when you have a disrespectful person not following these rules of a dialogue, then it’s best to ignore them or keep on the conversation in a polite way cause it can make them seem like they’re dumb for being disrespectful while the other person is more mature and is respectful. I really hope many people see my comment to be educated about this topic and I might help many people to have more knowledge on the world. Overall, thanks to my social studies teacher. A huge thanks for making me think in a mature mindset. Also, it’s really childish to say “haha, I knew you were wrong stupid!!” In a dialogue that turns out that your opinion was correct in, not everybody has to be right about their opinion. Instead say “yes, I understand. I’m glad I gave you more education and knowledge on this topic, you also gave me more education and knowledge about the topic. Thank you, I hope you have a great day.” Not too hard to say! Right? Dialogue and respectful conversations is really important in society here. Especially to gain knowledge, so I hope more people see or get themselves educated on the topic of a respectful conversation or dialogue. Practice more for the better knowledge! ❤
This is a bit cheesy, but the fictional character of Captain America changed my mind about utilitarianism when he refused to kill a friend to save the universe. "We don't trade lives." I hated that--seemed naive and foolish. Later, that friend ended up saving Captain America's life, repeating "We don't trade lives, Captain." I believe there is something good and noble about facing the impossible rather than doing evil. Keep the baby even if you can't afford to take care of it. Find a way.
I saw the intro and heres my go on why I am pro-choice and how it think it works out: - I specifically support legal, safe, and free access to abortion during the 1st, 2nd trimester. During this time women can get abortions because of rape, incest, or some elective reason. During 3rd trimester its illegal for elective abortions, unless the life of the mother is at risk. - The subjective and usually arbitrary line of personhood is a hard one to pin down. I think a fetus becomes a person when their nervous system and brain is fully developed(for a fetus) and they can start to feel pain. The problem with that is there is no definite timeline on when that happens. Scientist say sometime during the 2nd trimester (16- 21 weeks). So it would be hard to enforce and prone to issues if we make the line at brain and nervous system development. So instead I think a fair an easy line to regulate and enforce is the 3rd trimester. Before the 3rd you can have an abortion for any reason. After 3rd trimester starts, only can have an abortion if the life of the mother is at risk. - This position is also informed by the precedent of Roe v Wade. That is what set up a trimester system in the first place and had similar rules (1st tri legal, 2nd tri can be regulated, 3rd tri illegal). My argument for this system: - Its gives more people freedom (i dont think a fetus is a person). If you don't want to get an abortion or think its bad cool, dont get one. But it is very authoritarian to tell people they don't have a choice in the matter especially if they were to get r***d. - Having a kid is a huge monetary investment one most American can't afford. In a country (usa) without free healthcare, no mandated paid maternity/paternity leave (meaning a lot of poor/middle class people would lose their job if they had a kid), no free childcare/daycare, and an overall poor social safety net for people. Add to the fact over 60% of American live paycheck to paycheck (meaning they are barely scrapping by to begin with). Makes abortion an obvious choice then to throw a whole family into deeper poverty and probably forcing that child into a bad up bringing by parents that were not prepared and did not want them. (which does not lead to good outcomes for the child in their future). - Now the counter point to ^ is, "put them in foster care/ adoption. The problem is those systems in the united states is not very good, and usually has even worse outcomes for people that go through it. Also the 9 month process of a women going through a birth isn't something to sneeze at. Its a body altering process that have life long ramifications. Its unfair and unrealistic to expect women to go through that just to then put the kid down a bad path in life through the foster system. - Women will get abortions anyway. Abortion has mostly been illegal throughout this countries history. And women have been using hangers, poisons, and other painful acts to get out of having to go through the pregnancy process. This has led to many unnecessary deaths. So making it illegal will only force women to go back to this, unnecessary death and misery. - (You don't make this argument, just throwing in a bonus point)Also I have seen the argument, "women need to take accountability for their actions. They had sex that means a baby could happen". I get the point but what you miss is, those women had sex when abortion and morning after pills and contraceptive were available. So if they took all the responsible precautions when having sex and they accidentally get pregnant. You can't take away abortion and then tell women they need to take accountability for their actions. They are taking accountability for the mistake, they were going to get an abortion before right wingers took that option out from under her. Where I can change: - I can imagine a world where I become more anti-abortion. If tech changes and science can unintrusivly take a embryo out of a women and put it into some machine incubator that took care of the fetus for 9 months. Then I could see an argument for lowering the window of abortion to maybe even not allowing it at all. Final thoughts: - I don't condone my fellow compatriots on the pro choice side attitude and unwillingness to debate. Its a shame. - It is also a shame you are pro-life. Which is encompassed in the pro-choice side (you can "choose" to not have an abortion). Choose being a very important word. - Are you also against the morning after pill(plan b pill)? and birth control pills?
I’m really glad you were able to update your views. I also converted to a pro-life stance after reviewing all of the logic and arguments, and it just seems so impossible to ever change my mind again. Still, i hope i would if i was ever exposed to new arguments.
Just found your videos and woow! I truly admire not only what you´re doing, but how you´re doing it. It challenged me to ask myself how grounded my position is and also how I would share my position with an opposing view. Keep up the great content!! Love from Mexico❤
Calling you a fascist just proves they dont know what it means. in every definition you find a fascist suppresses the voices and media of the opposing political aisles. You're doing the complete opposite. You're giving them voices on a huge platform. Love this channel and their content
It's a woman's choice, only women give birth. - Majority of fathers are male, I believe. "It's not a being, it's a clump of cells." - The very fact it's a clump of cells tells you it's a living being. "My body, my choice." - Baby's body, your choice. What about rapes, threats to mother's or baby's life and ectopic pregnancies ? - Statistically, very small numbers. Abortion is indeed needed in the latter two, the first one not so black and white. "Abort babies because of climate change." - Find a good doctor.
Pro choice here. Good video :) I really enjoyed it. I frame the abortion debate as a dichotomy between normative and empirical discourse, and the pursuit of ‘public value’. Normative discourse is an exploration of values - with normative questions starting with the word “should”. For example, should abortion be legal? Or, should abortion after the first trimester be considered moral? Etc Empirical discourse is an exploration of objective data and research, and making decisions based on such. An empirical question starts with “to what extent”. For example, to what extent would legalizing abortion reduce single motherhood? Or, to what extent do those who get post first trimester abortions regret their abortion? Normative discourse is perfectly legitimate, as personal values are worthwhile and worthy of being listened to. So is empirical discourse. However, when considering the legality of abortion, or policies to support it, I feel empirical discourse takes primacy over normative discourse. This is because policymakers need to understand the ‘public value’ of decisions, and empirical data is the most reliable means to ascertain public value. What criteria you determine to be ‘public value’ is equivocal, but in essence, it’s decisions that facilitate the most net positive outcomes for society-at-large. If society-at-large benefits from the social and economic outcomes derived from legalizing abortion, as determined by empirical research, then I think it should be legal. This is regardless of normative values certain individuals or societal segments might have. They have the right to these normative values, but I don’t think normative beliefs constitute ‘public value’. Furthermore, I emphasise the term ‘net positive’ - meaning what creates ‘public value’ doesn’t need to produce perfect outcomes, but the positives need to outweigh the negatives. This is especially from an empirical standpoint, but could be from a normative perspective as well. I recognise this is quite a utilitarian standpoint, but I personally think good public policy should be ascertained through a utilitarian perspective. Based on the empirical research I’ve read, from a social and economic perspective, legal abortion offers greater ‘public value’. My opinion is quite removed from normative discourse, as once again, I look at this from a public value and public policy perspective. Just my take. Happy to hear others’ opinions.
I'm pro life but something just doesn't sit right with me when it comes to rape, really young girls, the terrible foster system, the adoption system too. The baby is the innocent one and shouldn't be killed because of what happens on the outside but I want the system once they're born to look after them.
Thank you for your calm approach to opening the discussion. I am concerned about your definition of personhood. If we define personhood as being anything other than a member of the human race then we risk placing whole categories of living humans outside the definition of personhood and their dignity, value and worth are compromised. This has led to great crimes against humanity and atrocious evils. Be careful. Another person might decide on a definition of personhood which removes your right to life and liberty.
Aborting a child because of a disability is not moral. That child’s life isn’t less valuable because they are not “normal.” Half the time the doctor diagnoses a child wrong! Please rethink that!
What if the child was doomed to die within months of birth? Down syndrome is a bad comparison when there are many other debilitating conditions that prevent people even living past childhood, or simply leaving the person living a life with constant medical complications. Sure medical treatment is allowing people with such conditions to live longer lives, but if you don’t live in a county with tax paid medical treatment you will end up paying a ridiculous amount for the child’s care. Even if you can get sufficient treatment they won’t be living a particularly comfortable life. I would argue it’s more moral to terminate a pregnancy early than knowingly allow a child into the world that will be in pain from birth and die within a short time period or even force them to live a life of constant pain and debt (through forced medical bills).
@@bugz552 That doesn’t make the child’s life less valuable. Pain is part of life and although they could have a difficult life that is not for you to decide if the child should live or not. When you choose to have sex you should know that there is a possibility of getting pregnant. And if that happens you are responsible for the child no matter what, I am sick of the lack of responsibility in our society. So if you have a child and sometime in their life they have an accident or some kind of life altering event that make cause pain physically or mentally. Do you just end their life right then and there? Is their life no longer of value!
@@victorialopez6659 depends what you consider valuable, clearly you put life above everything so theres no changing your mind on the matter. Though when i say life im sure you have a bias for human life. So if your child went on life support with a next to 0% chance of ever recovering you would just keep them on it for perpetuity? The "what ifs" im proposing aren't simply a broken arm that somone can easily recover from. This is meant to be a thought exercise of morality which you clearly can't grasp and only have the response of "life is valuable". There are many conditions which i would say trump the "life is valuable" mantra where people are bed bound for their entire life and are in excruciating pain constantly. Ofcourse the conditions arent atall common, but they exist and i would say anyone who would let a loved one live through such constant pain from birth, is the highest of evil.
@@bugz552 Life is valuable. Babies that are diagnosed with those conditions and then aborted aren’t even given the chance to live. Experience pain and joy. No one’s life is less valuable because of disability or a rare condition. With the example you gave, well, I would hate to see my family member in pain and if it came to that rare extreme, actually I would take the person off life support. It makes sense. However, that person was able to live even if for a short amount of time or in pain. I would not take that chance away from somebody at the beginning of their life especially. And in some of these extreme cases, we the family member might be able to make the decision for themselves. Most abortions are not done because of conditions like these. They are done because the mother and father aren’t ready for kids. It’s an inconvenience in their life. That’s pretty sad! Not to mention all the women that have gone through and have so much emotional trauma from doing the abortion that is their life truly enjoyable afterword. Do you believe in the death penalty? Although, I believe life is valuable. I think rapists, murders, etc. I think they have given up their right to life and should be taken out of this world. So no, my answers wouldn’t always be life is valuable because sometimes it isn’t but when the person is innocent and had nothing to do with being created then I have a problem.
Hey man, just some feedback I think skipping the "tangent" isn't the best idea in terms of fully expressing someone's point of view. I think it's fine as long as maybe you upload a seperate video completely uncut. Tbh I don't mind it too much but maybe the interviewees might mind it
As a person that is more pro choice than pro life, it is concerning that the pro choice individuals (in this video, I’m sure not all act this way) aren’t willing to explain why they support this position, it seems as if they don’t understand the fundamentals behind the stance and blindly support it because they want to be seen as admirable.
Agreed. There are plenty of reasonable pro-choice people and positions, but the people at the rallies tend to do a really poor PR job for the pro-choice movement at large.
When I learned of this channel, I knew I’d like it because I like discussion and these topics, but I didn’t think it would be this special. I’m pro-life. Period. Even for the rape and mental disability arguments (see Jeff Durbin and Apologia Church), so I don’t agree 100% with your current position. But I agree 10,000% with your approach. You’re simply an intelliGENT. YOU get points right out the gate with your approach and disposition. Thank you for all you do. Your channel will be HUGE. The thing is, there is no “compromise” when coming from a moral perspective. Taking life is wrong. Regardless of the reason. Why I love Jeff Durbin, aside from his amazing approach and skill, is the fact that his church puts their money where their mouths are. They will adopt EACH & EVERY baby they can. They’ve got families ready to adopt any child. So when the rabid, leftist, proud baby killers and pro-choice people say undoubtedly say things like “are you going to help the mother who cannot afford her child”, or “will you take the babies you force women to have!?”…their answer is always “actually, yes. We will”. Their church is filled with babies that were almost killed. Check out Apologia Studios channel. Jeff is just amazingly calm, cool, and capable.
First: English isn’t my first language, so sorry for the mistake in the following sentences. The debate between "pro-life" and "pro-choice" is a debate with no wining situation imo. The fact is, if you give the same humans rights to the mother and the unborn baby, their rights will encroach on one another. That’s why I think it’s a good idea to put some limitation on abortion, but it would be unwise to ban it. In the end, for those of us who live in free countries, I think you should be able to make the choice for your self. You discuss with your partner and decide what’s the best way to go. Your neighbour do not have a thing to say in your decision.
@@omp199 btw I’m not talking about third trimester I’m referring to early stages of abortion, after a certain point I think it’s wrong because of the human qualities the fetus has accumulated
@@omp199 having something legal and accessible if needed doesn’t mean it’s laws free. But it let the women the choice to choose what she think is better for her self. Example: in my country, alcohol and marijuanas are legal. But there are some restrictions like been over 18. Still, past your 18th birthday, you can chose for your self if you want to consume those products. Personally, I would put abortion totally legal, no question ask before 23-25 week. After which point, the foetus is likely to survive outside the mother. Then, for the remaining of the pregnancy, abortion would be restricted. Like if the life of the mother is at risk or if the baby develops malformation / other chromosomic anomaly.
You have a great point on the 3rd exception for being pro-life. The collective should indeed feel morally responsible for these very delicate and destructive situations such as rape, and especially responsible for not allowing them to happen in the first place. In any case if it happens should we put on the victim the burden of carrying the rapists baby? I would rather agree that she should have the right to decide what's best for her. This might imply the loss of a life, and that might just be the price the collective will have to pay ("for not having done enough to avoid that rape", feeling responsible). The victim must be protected and cared for after rape, with the same respect than before when we're avoiding it. Given this, your exception makes total sense. I hope this makes sense to you brother! Thank you so much for posting these amazing vídeos, love your work! Send me a message if you ever feel like trading some ideas. Peace.
it literally makes no fucking sense.. you can think about what you could have done differently (which is fucked up) but nothing is gonna change that she was raped and is now pregnant.. its the same as saying shes asking to be raped because shes wearing something revealing.. which is not true at all.
