Pro-Life Women vs Pro-Choice Men | Middle Ground 

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Getting a moderator was a great move

Shoutout to Jubilee for listening to the audience and getting a moderator. It’s essential for debates like this.

Personally, saying women shouldnt be shamed for having an abortion, but then calling those same women murderers doesnt make a lot of sense.

The moderator being able to say "you were pressing him about this earlier" was so nice because that's one of the BIGGEST gripes I had without moderators. One person would give others a hard time but would avoid or become defensive when it was directed back at them.

I would love to see Ex-Pro-Choicers vs Ex-Pro-Lifers in a future video

Adding a moderator really changed a lot, recent debates are much more polite and respectfull and it's refeshing to see this, wether you agree with participants or not

If I got sexually assaulted there’s no way I would be able to carry a baby of my assaulter for 9 months then go through a painful birth costing thousands just to give away the baby cuz I wouldn’t kee it cuz I wouldn’t be able to unsee the abuser in the child.

i really don't like how cat pressed ezequiel to answer her questions with straightforward answers so she could get a 'gotcha' on him and his stance would look weaker, and then when ezequiel asked _her_ a question looking for a straightforward answer she danced around her response exactly how she criticized ezequiel for doing. it pissed me off.

even though i didnt agree with every argument, everyone was surprisingly really well spoken

I’m not for abortion but I didn’t like when the woman said that the woman’s body isn’t getting hurt. There can be so much trauma and pain that comes with pregnancy. So I think we really need to have empathy for these woman. It’s a hard choice. We don’t need to tell woman that it’s no big deal to choose life. For some it’s a huge deal and it takes a lot of bravery and strength. 💕

I'd love to see a Middle Ground episode with people who are pro-euthanasia and against euthanasia. The abortion debate has brought up topics surrounding the morality of life and death. I feel like it would be an interesting topic to watch unfold.

Red jacket needed to be checked by the moderator. She kept cutting people off 🤣

It’s very refreshing to see two disagreeing sides have a respectful conversation. That’s very rare nowadays.

Would love to see actual medical professionals discussing both sides of the argument. They're the ones with the best and most accurate information, and are the actual ones involved with patients going thru these choices.

27:41 “You’re not answering the question” And YOU’RE NOT actively listening.

20:35 I really have an issue with pro-life people because of the woman in the blue shirt. The guy in the brown jacket said women should be allowed the OPPORTUNITY to determine if they wanna bring a child into the world and decide to terminate if the environment is not optimal for the child. Just because your babies had medical issues but came out fine and are doing well later in life, that’s not always the case for every family. Your anecdotal experience shouldn’t eliminate the option for everyone.

Thanks for watching! I really enjoyed hosting/moderating this episode. Would love to hear all your thoughts on this topic 👇🏽

I think overall everyone was pretty well informed and civil. But as a woman, I do need to acknowledge the women cutting off the guys pretty frequently. Let them get their point in there and then you can counter.

I don't think, "If Adele can have a baby and still win a Grammy, why can't you?" is a very fair argument. One thing that wasn't really talked about was economic circumstances. Yes, the quality of life for the child is important but the quality of the mother's life is also important, if not MORE important bc her quality of life directly impacts her child's. Abortion won't get a woman out of a DV situation or cure her depression but having A BABY certainly will undoubtedly make those situations much worse.

"it's not the woman's body that's being hurt in the situation" - meanwhile the woman's body LITERALLY is being hurt in the situation...

I think a key point or aspect that was not discussed/missed is tragically if a woman requires an abortion or to terminate their pregnancy late term(3rd trimester) often that baby or child was wanted. This conversation and unfortunately so many others neglect to discuss that there are documented cases where pregnancy complications can happen late in pregnancy that could jeopardize the mother's health and life. In high-risk situations, it is about medical intervention not just ending the pregnancy with no cause. Edit: I was thinking of late miscarriages and stillbirths. Again I am no expert and its a situation I hope no one has to go through.

I love how Jubilee has taken advice from viewers to adjust their platform. I’ve been watching since the beginning and I remembered making comments to put subtitles on the leading questions. Shortly after, you made that adjustment.

Being pregnant has only made me even more pro-choice. Forcing women to go through pregnancy and birth is cruel and if men did it, this wouldn't even be a conversation.

Women’s bodies go through a lot during and after having babies. Some of their bodies never recover. Some women don’t live through childbirth. To birth a baby or not is a very personal decision.

I love how Cat was attacking Ezequiel when she thought he wasn’t answering her question (Even though he clearly was) but when he was asking her a question, she wouldn’t clearly answer🤔

They keep bringing up late term abortions like doctors aren’t duty bound by the hippocratic oath, doctors aren’t just doing late term abortions because the mother wants it often times there are medical issues that come up that call for these types abortions including the fact that the baby maybe already turn deceased.

If the state mandates that it's illegal for a woman to have an abortion, the medical costs of prenatal care/birth should also be the financial responsibility of the state--along with state-mandated maternity leave, daycare, etc. I'm surprised no one brought up the cost of giving birth in America, let alone raising a child for 18+ years.

Imo It's incredibly two-faced to say someone shouldn't be shamed for something that you think should be illegal...

pro life people seem to forget that pro choice doesnt mean pro abortion, it means pro choice!!! as in you have the choice to abort or not!!!

Pro choice is not against pro life. Pro lifers are the ones against pro choice. Pro choice is the do what is best for you crew. You choose life we for it, you choose the alternative we empathize with you.

Protect men like this at all costs! It soothes my soul to hear men speak about this with such compassion and a willingness to put themselves in women’s shoes.

even with the moderator present we could still see alot of people getting interrupted

I consider myself to be pro-choice. That being said, I use birth control. I know my options. And I’m extremely picky about the partners I choose. I do everything I can to prevent unwanted pregnancies.

I like how calm and respectful they stayed throughout most of the episode! This is a very emotional topic and quite philosophical too. Props to them and especially to Gen for moderating this conversation well!

What we want is the ability to CHOOSE!

Red jacket wouldn’t let anyone finish their thoughts 😭

I’d really love to see pro life men vs pro choice women presented with the same questionnaire (if it hasn’t already been done on this channel) 🤔

29:35 “After that who’s helping” As soon as he agrees with her she says “well there is support”. Lmfao come on now.

We all agree we wouldn't shame... As one person calls them murderers...

Her saying having an abortion doesn’t get DV victims out of those relationships is wild. If someone has a child in that situation, 1) they’re putting the child at risk for being abused and witnessing abuse, neglect, etc. and 2) that’s creating a guarantee that it’ll be even HARDER for the victim to get the courage to leave. They are now bonded to this abuser by a child, they may not be able to support themselves and a child while on the run, the abuser might be even more keen on finding them if they leave because they want their child, etc.

I don't like the term "men can't tell women what to do with their bodies." Anyone can tell anyone else anything. It should be "men can't force women to do or not do what they will to their bodies" or some variation. Also, it shouldn't be 'men' it should be people, or can women force other women to do something with their bodies?

Regarding being a product of traumatic conception, it seems it hurts more when the person grows up and learns how and why they were conceived. From what Ive seen, that messes with people's minds, resulting in years of therapy. It's mind-boggling that some ppl truly believe termination is hurting the development's feelings

as a survivor of child abuse... i am 1000% pro-choice. i would rather have been aborted than endured over 10 years of physical and emotional child abuse. using a story of adoption of someone who grew up in abuse and then to turn around and say ''isn't that life worth something'' what kind of life is an abused life? no child deserves that. if my mom wasn't a selfish POS.... i wouldn't be here today in pain without a childhood and memories to happily look back on. forcing someone to give birth doesn't do that child any favors.

I had to have two abortions... one bc i was r*ped and one was with my ex who didnt want me to keep it.. If i could support myself and be a single mother, i would've kept it, but I knew I couldn't, so i went through with the abortion. It's something that's not just black and white, and circumstances are all different. Freedom of choice and pursuing your happiness are fundamental human rights

One important argument that I’m disappointed the men didn’t communicate, probably bc they don’t have to think about this, is the fact that some women just don’t want to go through pregnancy itself. That’s the major importance of having a choice to not be forced to have your body give birth. While being able to bear children is a literal superpower, and even removing the scenarios with societal/economic strains influencing the decision to have an abortion, if a woman doesn’t want to put her body through pregnancy, she shouldn’t be forced to!

This has to be one of the BEST episodes of Middle Ground I have ever seen! Having a moderator also males a huge difference.

" Pro Choice Men vs Pro Life Women " would've been a much better title, come on guys!

It’s a choice! Allow ppl to make a decision for themselves without judgement or fear.

I hated that the ladies were interrupting the men and forcing them to answer questions while actively avoiding questions from the men

Moderator was needed....but needs to be stronger when it comes to interruptions. You also can't let someone railroad another with questions to trap them.

No child should be born into poverty. No child should be born into a circumstance they have to survive through. No child should be born through rape, if the mother doesn’t want to keep it. There are 391,098 children in foster care, some of these children will go unadopted and/or passed around to different homes. No child deserves to live like that. Until we have a system that actually takes care of the neglected children women should be allowed to do what they feel is best.

Fundamentally, it comes down to a difference is what we consider living. Pro-choice folks don’t (or at least, majority don’t) consider a fetus as a life, whereas pro-lifers do. Tbh idk how we are ever gonna reconcile that key difference🤷‍♂️

0:31: 💰 Financial impact of abortion vs child support on men's responsibility. 3:56: ⚖️ The weight of decision-making in abortion debates and the impact on women's lives. 8:22: ⚖️ Discussion on personal experiences with abortion and adoption, advocating for pro-choice while acknowledging individual circumstances. 11:43: ⚖️ Discussion on men's understanding of pregnancy, importance of social programs, and being a feminist while pro-life. 15:58: ⚖️ Debate on celebrating abortion within the women's movement and the importance of women's agency. 19:55: ⚖️ Discussion on societal obsession with perfection, challenging termination advice, and diverse views on abortion. 23:58: ⚖️ Debate on the beginning of life, prioritizing mother's life, and rarity of life-threatening abortions. 27:43: 💬 Discussion on moral stance and having a voice in abortion debates. 30:38: ⚖️ Debate on abortion laws: personal beliefs vs. statutory ban at six weeks or conception. 34:01: ⚖️ Debate on elective abortions and impact on families, emphasizing importance of support systems. 37:49: ⚖️ Discussion on abortion rights and personal stories of difficult decisions and redemption. Timestamps by Tammy AI

I genuinely feel like the amount of speaking from one side is not equal to the other. i appreciate a moderator but there were many many times where a specific person was unable to express their opinion and cut off when another had been speaking for a significant amount of time. I disagree that this video is well moderated, as I do feel one side got to speak their point while another did not in the same amount.

Ya'll agreed " women should never be shamed for having an abortion" But you shamed every woman whose had an abortion by calling them murderers.

This was genuinely one of the best Middle Ground episodes I’ve seen cuz despite a lot of opinions being shared, some of them they didn’t agree and even I didn’t agree either, everyone was extremely respectful and tried to see the point without geting heated or trying create conflict. A lot of these there’s always someone that’s there looking to fight and to shame the other side, whereas here everyone was informed, respectful and imo attempted to see and truly find middle ground with the other side on this topic

my body was not created to have a child. my body was created for me, and to give me the opportunity to have a child if that is what i wish to do. being a woman on this earth doesn't automatically sign you up for motherhood. we are not soil that seeds can be planted into whenever someone else pleases.

"The child shouldn't pay for the rapists deeds." But the mother should???? Can't wrap my head around it.

I hate the argument "oh, well, abortion mentally aversely affects women..." Ok, and? Forcing someone to keep a pregnancy they don't want affects them too, arguably more so, because they will experience the mental anguish of carrying a fetus they don't want for 9 months, the physical and mental pain of being forced to give birth, and then faced with the tremendously difficult decision of giving that child up or keeping it and having to raise a child they, once again, did not want to begin with. There is NO medical procedure that has a 0% regret rate. Every single pregnant person should be able to CHOOSE if they want to move forward with a pregnancy or end it, and there may be consequences and repercussions to bear no matter their choice, but it will have been their choice that they got to make without the government forcing their hand.

Keep up with the middle grounds. It’s the best series on your channel

If you think a child is being murdered, there is no convincing pro choice argument.

really loved this episode how everybody was respectful and giving each other a hug at the end. also props to the moderator

My biggest issue with the pro-life side is their ANSWERS to many questions are anecdotes. Whereas the pro-choice side shares anecdotes but not as the sole answer.

so i actually went with a girl to get an abortion and it's not actually the way these women think it is. i remember the doctor being very concerned and reminding her that getting an abortion is very serious and even 1 abortion could mess up her reproductive chances later on in life. there were other facts that he told her that even i was thinking "wow this is actually something pretty heavy to decide about your body and the chances of being able to have a baby later in life" so i think when the pro life group think women are being coerced into abortions by medical professionals that is a huge misrepresentaion of what is really happening when they are giving medical advice about abortions. also i would like to point out that i think most people agree that abortions should not be banned, but they should be regulated. everyone i think agrees that in certain circumstances it can be a viable option, because a flat out ban on abortions would be a very bad situation that none of us would ever want to put someone through. so where we are stuck debating is up to when do we want to allow a woman to have an abortion. and i think that is what the talking point needs to be, maybe every trimester has different qualifiers for an abortion?

HYPOCRISY! How they all step up for not shaming women who abort but everything they say is shaming! People literally stand outside clients and shame women!💀

Actually, you CAN and SHOULD make an argument against the extreme WHEN the extreme is ACCEPTED/tolerated by the main.

The people saying, "It's a separate being/body." Okay, then separate it from me. If it can't survive being surgically separated from me, then it's not truly a separate being/body from my own..

As a male, I would happily take a pill if it prevented my spouse from getting pregnant. Totally 100% onboard. Where is it?

It’s weird that people think life is always a gift and it’s not. Also I don’t want to be a mom even if I can be a mom.

So glad that this isn’t a debate in my country... Every women where I’m from is entitled to make decisions pertaining to their bodies. Point blank.

I am so happy that Gen started coming to mediate these episodes. Love his videos he's the perfect person to help these conversations go more evenly

@29:56 “I think we all agree, we would never shame someone who has an abortion,” 5 min after trying to tell the dude, “don’t you want a voice to tell people it’s immoral to have an abortion after 20 weeks?” 🤡

A very fascinating video, this brings back painful memories which i have been enduring. My relationship of 5 years ended 3 months ago. The love of my life decided to leave me, I really love her so much I can’t stop thinking about her, I’ve tried my very best to get her back in my life, but to no avail, I’m frustrated, I don’t see my life with anyone else. I’ve done my best to get rid of the thoughts of her, but I can’t, I don’t know why I’m saying this here, I really miss her and just can’t stop thinking about her.

I like this seating arrangement. It's much more open and not huddled up where everyone is in everyone's faces.

Oh I cant listen. You dont get to decide someone elses life. Too many kids of born to parents who dont want them. NO one should have to go throught that. Neglect and emotional abuse are silent traumas. And dont tell men they cant say whatever. They can say what they want and its pathetic to manipulate then into not saying what they need to.

My mom was in the same spot as Cat when she was pregnant with my twin sister and me. While I think it was badass of her to stand up to her doctor, she could only do that because she was immensely privileged (married, family support, could afford to keep us in the NICU for weeks or care for us if we had complications later on). Even though I benefited from her being prolife, I still think that there should be choice for people who are not as privileged as my mom

I find it ironic that the pro-lifers were saying the women should never be shamed for having an abortion, yet they just said the mothers would be murderers if they did

Just because we can point to certain people and situations where people make it, that doesn’t justify forcing a person to gestate and give birth.

Susan B. was not anti-abortion, and in fact, the early suffragettes rarely discussed abortion OR birth control, because those procedures and options were not readily available during that time. The pill hadn't been invented and wouldn't be for another fifty years AFTER the death of these women AND wasn't legal in every state for even longer. Contraceptive methods weren't available over-the-counter, not even condoms. There wasn't an accessible and safe option for BC. Abortion falls under the same idea, and in the late 19th century to early 20th (when these women lived and were active in the movement) wasn't the refined and safe medical surgical procedure that it is today. They are basing Susan B. being anti-choice off of the signature of Marriage and Maternity, that might or might not have (most likely not) signed by Susan B. It was signed by a woman using "A" as her signature, and many anti-choicers run wild with that, claiming it MUST have been Susan B. Well, it probably wasn't. And to say that all early women's rights activists were anti-choice is not true either. Alice Paul, were fiercely pro-choice and helped grass roots efforts to start the early abortion clinics, along with Margret Sanger and Planned Parenthood. BUT say even IF they were anti-abortion, so what? That was a different time when abortion was literally a "back alley" procedure, performed by undertrained archaic male doctors without anesthesia, without sterilization, and without after care. Women bled out and died more often than not. Of course, in that case, one is going to be against it. However, abortion NOW one of the safest surgeries there are, and one of the most common. It is safer than being pregnant and giving birth. If Susan B. Cady Stanton, and so on were alive today, I highly doubt they'd be anti-choice by any stretch of the imagination.

GEN is such a great moderator. I hope he stays a regular in middle ground!

Watching this as a progressive european citizen is craaazy 🤣

19:42 I respect Nick for moving so that he could allow one of the women to take his place so they wouldn't have to walk around everyone for a free seat. I doubt anyone really noticed but it was nice to see. A real gentleman.

There is no way they are thanking his birth mom for birthing him and then abandoning him… they are simply thanking the mom for having a baby she didn’t want…

6:43 What do you mean women’s body don’t get hurt? It’s nine months of pregnancy your whole body’s gonna change forever after you give birth to a child. There’s also Postpartum depression and so many other mental issues woman have to go through.

I hate how everyone wants to say life begins at conception. First of all the pregnancy hasn’t even started at conception or fertilization so how did life start. Pregnancy begins at implantation but again it is not necessarily the same thing as life. So many people are so uninformed it makes me want to scream😖

I changed my stance to pro-life after getting pregnant and realizing the baby is not my body, it is a separate person and I respected their bodily autonomy.

pro choice also includes the choice to be a mother and working on having better things and programs in place for mothers because realistically there are mental health issues, physical illnesses to wear they cannot take certain birth controls, free healthcare is not nationwide, not everybody REALISTICALLY has the means and/or information to get involved in any of the things they are talking about

Middle ground is so much better with a moderator

Why not let people have a choice. This world does not have a shortage in population. If it becomes illegal you will have more women in prison for trying to do it themselves. People should make there own decisions especially when it doesn't effect complete strangers that they will never come into contact with

Not a single set of balls in sight...

At the end of the day, if you consider it a full person at fertilization and want to carry, by all means do it. The problem is, they are shoving their opinion about when a fetus is endowed w the rights of personhood onto the rest of us. Tbh I’d probably keep it because I have the resources to do so. But if it’s less than 20 weeks developed and has no brain, it is not yet a person and I cannot tell anyone else how to think about that or what to do. That’s authoritarian.

I do think men should have a say, but I think the woman should have the final decision.

red jacket can NOT let anyone finish their thoughts

35:27 "You're gonna bring this child to term no matter what? DO YOU! But don't force that on other women". This perfectly summarizes my opinion. What does me having an aborting is going to affect YOUR life? Having a baby will greatly affect mine! So much for the party of "freedom"...

i’m only a couple minutes in, and already it seems that the pro-choice men have a more open perspective regarding this topic. the pro-life women seem to have a very limited perspective and stick to typical talking points.

No person should govern what women want to do with their bodies period. I’m hearing a lot of anecdotal stories but that won’t be the experience for everyone. I’m glad that they chose to have their babies but don’t push it on other women, thank you.

There is no such thing as a pro life feminist. You cannot be a feminist while advocating for and supporting people being forced to gestate and give birth. Forcing people to gestate and give birth violates privacy rights, violates bodily autonomy/bodily integrity rights, and violates human rights. Cannot be feminist while supporting the violation of those rights.

If someone recognizes they can’t afford to financially support a child, so they decide with the other parent that not bringing a child into that situation is the best decision…I think that *is responsible*.

Saying womens bodies aren't the ones negatively affected by pregnancy diminishes women who's bodies have been negatively affected by pregnancy. Live in reality ❤