This is a classic example of how a player's wrong play can induce you making a wrong move. Slowing down on turn with a middle set is as wrong as it gets. And the opponent was sure that H had no better than high pair. so, obviously, he was holding an A in his hand...idea of bluffing seemed reasonable. Except for one point: your opponent is not weak nor he is pretending to be weak. He is just scared. So: pinpointing scared players at the table is crucial for successful play.
Holy crap, 75 rake and sometimes more. Guess I shoul feel better about the 5 max at aria, when they accidentally (on purpose) drop 3 when the pot only has 45 in it.
Running this through PokerSnowie as best I could given the format it wanted him to keep barreling on turn but when checking it wanted to go for a small check raise on the turn at 89% of the time and call the rest but as played it goes for the check call on the river. As far as modeling this hand for overpairs on the river pokersnowie has you mixing up folding and calling with all of them. 99s always call (not an overpair anymore but top set) TT call 39% JJ call 52% QQ call 62% KK call 70% and AA call 76%.
the villain's line wasn't horrible either. Personally, when a loose passive player double flats I tend to put them on suited conncters so a 7 is very much in his range. Hero took the line of an overpair, to anyone he has QQ/KK 100% of the time so trying to bluff him off that board def works
So what's the deal in terms of etiquette as far as him saying Kings are good and folding? Regardless of whether or not he is the host isn't he obligated to show since the hero was the caller? Letting him not show robs you of valuable information that you paid for.
Yes the Mayfair played stud 8 and I would say mostly stud and hold’em plus other games on certain nights. All of the horse games were played there. I wouldn’t say I was a regular but I have been there many times as well as the Diamond club which were the top 2 places in NYC at that time (before play station opened). Bart if you want contact info or a hook up with known people from that time, let me know.
How are you playing with an endless bankroll though? If you plop somebody in the game with 10k and they lose it, and they re-buy and lose it again, they have to pay out that the 20k. Now, if you're suggesting theyre going to attempt to palm 20k in chips throughout the night in each pot to offset that, i suppose thats a different story. Thats wild if thats the case. I would imagine somebody would eventually pick up on a dealer palming chips. Shady casinos, Shady home games. Is it safe to play anywhere anymore?
Just realized $75 rake, that will definitely offset a majority of the 20k mixed with some chip palming lol. $75 a half, if they probably get 20 hands an hour and play for 8 hours do you freaking realize that is 12 thousand dollars in rake? Wtf is that? How is this allowed? Bro can run that game 10 times a year and that could literally be his job. He wouldn't have to do anything else the rest of the year and if his guys play 8 hours on 10 separate occasions, my dude walks away with 120 grand 😂😂😂😂 I have got to get in on this home game thing. I should start running one. Sht id be happy with the same rake casinos take. $10 per hand I'd take. You'd take over a grand a night home.
2 huge points I would like to make. 1. Never show ur hand 1st when u are the caller and not the raiser (data is valuable). Instead, ask to see and if u beat then show. 2. Never play in a game where the runner also plays. Since, he is collecting vig his implied odds are significantly better than you.
That seems like not a bad approach. It seems to me you can neither fold nor call all of your over pairs. You need some way to separate them, and your approach seems reasonable.
On the river I think im pretty much calling 100% of the time here. you lose to 77, 78s, Betting small on the flop though, means that he is going to float a tonne here imo. He can also have QJd, JTd, even KQs or h, and once you check turn, hes now repping a board that favours him rather than you. I would imagine he should be bluffing the river here at a very high frequency.
Let me make a distinction between true home games, private games, and true semi-open underground games. The underground games have the highest rakes and $50 and $75 is not unusual. I could go much deeper into how these games are set up and who runs them but some other time. It used to be that the best games were in Flushing Queens and the Chinese neighborhoods of Brooklyn. Games at social clubs are often best but you have to find them.
I don’t think you can fold all your over pairs on the river. I don’t think you can call with all of them either. There was a video where Bart talked about a different approach than randomizing, but I can remember what he said.
exactly. Pocket KK, QQ are not much different than 4th set in this hand context. The only difference is that high pair loses to two pairs which is out of question in this hand context. V cannot have 65/46...SO, if I'm calling with low set I supposed to call with high pair, too.
@@pot_kivach160 It’s a bit different because low set beats two pair, if I’m remembering this hand correctly. So I think you can call all your sets but have to sometimes call/sometimes fold over pairs.
Me to a young vlogger (under 30) You've played all over Florida, do you know if FL has any rooms with prop players like Cali? "Yeah FL has got a bunch! They run bets for the 7-2 game all the time!" That's when I learned I fell into the generation gap.
10:07 even before we see the hand my guess is hero flops a set that managed to fall behind to their opponents range by the river because too many draws got there ...
I need some help understanding the logic Bart makes here. Could some people chime in for me. The villain flat flats the pre-flop action on a rather large 3 bet. So one might assume his holdings were not good, and at the very best might be a small pair...but calling the $375 3 bet would suggest that he has some kind of playable hand if the right flop comes down so its not going to be complete hot garbage but rather a disguised hand hoping to profit against a large holding by his opponent if he hits. Isn't he going to have a frequent amount of the time suited Ax, suited connectors or suited one-gappers trying to snap off the hero's presumed large holdings (overpair) if the flop comes down favorably. I supppose villain is going to sometimes have a suited Ax, KJ, K10, Q10, QJ, J10 and try to make a play at against a scary flop or turn, but isn't he just as often or even more likely going to have A7 suited, 87 suited, 97 suited, 76 suited along with the possible 66, 77, and occasional (but less likely) 88 or 99 than the suited face cards against such a large pre-flop 3 bet? I'm trying to understand why Bart thinks that calling the 55 is supposed to be such an easy call with the way that pre-flop action went down against the game-runner flat flat action. I think villain may actually hit that board really hard sometimes considering he only valued his hand at a $30 call in the original pre-flop pass before flatting against the $375 3-bet. Maybe you still make the call but is it really an easy call? Maybe I'm reading this all wrong?
After meeting a Card Mechanic in real life and seeing how many there are on Social Media just makes me to Paranoid to play a "Private Game" that was run by Criminals. or any private game for that matter.
Seems perfectly played by hero, if he's squeezing small and middling pairs from the SB. Don't know how we can fold river, as played. Doubt I'd be c-betting this flop with overpairs.
I don't usually 3 bet 55 from an OOP spot, but I don't see much to question after that. I do find it interesting when Bart includes the "nuts" in his MDF discussions though. I mean... if hero has a 7 there is no decision to make right? So it seems to me we should define our MDF range with hands that actually call for a decision. I think the top of hero's range here is 88. He could also have 66. If hero sometimes has 99, I could never fold that.
@@EllieBanks333 I wouldn't typically 3B over a raise from LJ and a call from CO with 55-99 in the SB. I'm mixing up my SB play between 3B or fold and some calls/over-calls. I think with most small and middling pairs, I'd just be calling, unless the original opener is splashy and the CO isn't the type to slow-play I'm mostly 3B'ing TT+, AK, AQs,, A5s, and KQs. It would suck to squeeze with a middling pair here, and get back-raised by the CO. I don't want to take the betting lead away with a hand like this when I'm OOP. I don't see how we could ever fold a 7 here, if we somehow got here with a 7. If V double-flatted pre with T7, he's just getting my money. But there again, hero shouldn't be here with 77, 87 or A7s any more than he should be here with 55, and V really shouldn't be here with T7. It's always a weird situation when we over-play some hand that shouldn't even be in our range, and we actually make a strong yet vulnerable hand with it. What's interesting here is how often the CO is double-flatting with 66 or 87s. Hero made a 5x 3B. I wouldn't think V would have much 66 or 87s in his range, so flopping any set here would seem like the nuts on the flop. But because hero really shouldn't have sets or straights here, I think I'd bet bigger, just to avoid giving 77-TT, 33 and A7s a good price to peel. It's hard to figure out what CO is double-flatting with that calls the flop and bets turn, especially if hero goes larger, like $500-$600. My pre-flop 3B range is going to mostly be hands that aren't strong here, so the theoretical top of my range is going to be TT+, which is why I'd have bet bigger on the flop, if I was way out of line pre and got lucky enough to flop a set. If I bet $500-$600 on this flop, get called, and then the turn is an 8, I think I'd just check, and hope V checks back. The fact that the turn brings in a BDFD would make it impossible for me to fold turn if V stabbed at it. On river, I'm probably just block-betting and praying V doesn't raise, or maybe just check-calling. As hero, I would just flat pre and look to set-mine. I'd check-raise flop huge, and probably just take it down right there. If LJ or CO calls my flop x/r, I probably barrel turn and check-call a reasonable sized river bet, though I'm not loving it with this run-out. The way hero played this, his hand is way under-repped, and way above what I'd think his range should be. Don't know how we fold river when we get here like hero did.
Caller starts off by saying game runner is loose pre calling station and post flop tightens up. Now on turn hero is saying game runner has a lot of bluffs. Someone has a bad memory. lol
Lots of 7x. 87s/76/A7s/77. If he's really playing a lot of hands, then he has some offsuit combos, as well, but I doubt he has many. He also has some higher sets.
The villain should definitely be doing this with 44, 66 and probably 88 and 99 if he doesn't always 3 bet them which most people don't. The hero doesn't have that many 7s and really shouldn't have the smaller sets.
@@1vailchris sometimes, maybe, but there's not a lot of reason to. If you flop a set here against a normal 3 bet range, they're so often drawing dead or to two outs.
@@Jermo484 As CO, I don't think I'd be double-flatting with 44, and probably not 66, so if I did happen to double-flat, and then flopped a set, I'd be raising with it, especially on this board texture. A lot of hero's 3B range is going to be happy to get money in on the flop, whereas hero's not going to be as enthusiastic on a lot of run-outs. For example, this one. Hero's not going to love the turn or river if he's got JJ+. CO could have some bluffs in his range when he raises flop after double-flatting, but I'd think they'd almost all have a 7 in them, or be 88. Maybe 33. Other than 33, all CO's flop bluffs get there on the turn. It's weird for CO to double-flat, and it's hard to think what CO's range looks like, but if it includes middling pairs and middling suited connectors, this board would seem to smash it. So raising to punish hero's c-bet with over-pairs, because the board is more favorable for CO, seems at least somewhat theoretically correct.
@@Jermo484 Just to simplify - I think you're saying there's no reason to raise 66/44 for value. I think there's reason to raise those hands for value, but also for CO to raise flop with some bluffs, simply because I agree with you that hero really shouldn't have any sets or straights here after 3B'ing pre from the SB.
I hate in underground games when house men or the hosts play in the game unless it’s to fill a seat and the play like an OMC. I NEVER liked it. It’s not bad enough that you’re raking (usually over raking) but you want to try to play and make moves to take people’s money too? Play somewhere else if you want to play other than your game. It leaves a bad taste in your mouth as a player if you get stacked by the owner. It’s a good way to ruin your game. That or owners playing in the game and backing one or two players at the same table are my biggest pet peeves (in addition to over raking or BS prop bets where they keep the money when it doesn’t hit).
I played a game exactly like this. 2 hoyse players in every pot with any 2 cards to tey and run you down. I got on a hot streak and ended up breaking the table in 2 5 hrs. Made a lot of monet that day
Playing red/black flops have always been a big thing in these game. 2/3 on the flop wins. Some play all 5. All red or black usually pays double. There will also be additional side bets if a specific card comes out. Fking gamblers. Lol
It would be odd enuff to double flat QQ pre, but then to turn it into a bluff on river for pot size bet? I'd be shocked if villain turned over QQ here.
More likely he had some AX of diamonds that bricked out, probably AdTd, blocking the nuts (T7). If he double-flatted pre with QQ, and decided to turn his hand into a bluff on the river, he's beyond terrible.
Or you could just not watch the video and move on with your life. You think Bart is making these videos to please YOU specifically? This may come as a shock to you, but the world doesn't revolve around you.
Bart, your repetition of the action over and over again is pretty annoying. If people are serious about this content (at least i am) we should be able to remember the action on all streets. Moreover , you can always keep a full hand summary running on the top left so that it caters to ppl that may not remember earlier streets
