Proline Racing's 5200HP Hemi V8 | Secrets Revealed [TECH TALK] 

Thanks Jack, appreciate the kind words! - Taz.

There’s a reason there’s “the Dillard tax” lmao

@@hpa101 how to contact Eric?& this engine also available for lsr?kindly reply

Yes, he always keeps the viewers in mind. Even if he understands the difficult stuff himself.

He's very good at it

100% Always interesting to hear a bit about the process people have been through to find out what works too. Glad you enjoyed the interview :) - Taz.

That is a high quality educational comment that we come to expect from you guys. Love your work and the nip shields.

Just interested why does top fueler make 8-10000hp on these boost levels but this only makes 5200hp? Cheers

alanjrkaminski would you be able to run these engines on nitromethane thanks for reply

AJPE = Alan Johnson?

@@turbochard7355 First, they ASSUME it's 10,000 for a top fuel. Theres not even a hub dyno that can handle an instant 10,000HP hit so they don't even know. It's a scientific formula that takes all the variables and spits out a number of 10,000-12,000HP. Why is it so powerful? Nitromethane has like an 8:1 advantage over 116 race gas in explosive potential. It takes a really hot engine to make it burn which is why they start their engines with Methanol (alcohol) that burns very easily yet still makes the power they need to keep the engine healthy. They NEED that nitromethane after the start...not just for its power but because it cools the engine. Short of oil passages to moving parts, there's nothing cooling that engine other than the blower when they launch and that air ain't cool for very long nor does it cool anything other than an intake valve and a cylinder. The result? On the starting line right when they hit the gas, there is INSTANT 10,000 HP if they hold the tires down. (that 5,000HP engine would NEVER be able to generate 5,000HP off the hit without exploding/busting the tires loose...even if they put a top fuel blower on top of it.). A TF/FC engine NEEDS to idle at about 1000HP to keep the nitromethane burning which is why they sit idling and spitting unburned nitromethane on the start line at a high rate. (they burn about 17 gallons of 90% nitro meth/10% Methanol in a single run(burnout etc which is damn near a full gas tank worth of gas on a regular car.). I believe just the roots blower they use needs 500hp just to spin it as I recall. They can't use a traditional clutch. They use about 9 plates that over a run get so hot that they physically weld themselves together. That's a new set of clutch plates every single run taken out of the car by a guy with a very thick set of gloves. So that's 1000HP to 10,000HP in a split second. The end result of that is they use a block about once every 15 runs TOPS, any cracks or not, they just pull it out and sell them down the line to less aggressive Hemi users or send them to be reforged into new blocks of aluminum so they can mill another block. Not rods or other high energy parts...some of them get 6-10 runs tops. With that 5,000HP Hemi (which only shares the name with a top fuel Hemi because the TF needs a whole lot of extra reinforcement on to keep it from blowing up the aluminum Hemi block needs to have). It idles at a next to no HP. It just sits there gurgling with enough idle and hp to keep a type of gas(116 octane) that would probably burn if you looked at it wrong to keep burning or there's a Methanol(alcohol) version for a lot of cars too but it depends on the race rules. The end result of that you need cooling(not as much for the Methanol) and a bunch of other systems that suck HP out of that engine. On the line, every power adder, nitrous, turbo, procharger or screws(the guys with the huge hats on top of their engines with the butterflies) has to try to replicate those NHRA beasts that suck a room full of air into the engine in literally seconds. They obviously can't due to regulations and physical limits of parts. Even a 5000HP car could NEVER accept a portion of the power a TF/FC engine blips in their power supressed burnouts let alone a starting line race launch. And now the point of this post. That 5000HP Hemi is WAY different than a top fuel/funny car Hemi in every way other than the hemispherical heads. Most of all, when someone pushes the button, not only would that head explode if they tried 5000HP through it from almost zero but they'd bust the tires loose every single time. They start off with as much power as they think they can put down and not spin and then it slowly works its way up to 5000 down the run as you can add more and more power without spinning the tires (if you can even make that car do 5000 up to 1000ft or even 1320 feet). What the 5000 does do is it gives you the POTENTIAL for 5000 and with a regular car without a $50,000 carbon fiber body of a funny car with all the other things built to allow the car to do as much of 10,000HP as possible off the line. It should be mentioned that with turbos that engine might start at 1500HP but it would take the slow build up of exhaust going down a run for it to build to 5000HP(if they could make that much with the amount of time they need to build boost safely before the race ends). It's why you see a turbo car chase a blower or nitrous car down at the end. Nitrous/Blower car has all the power the engine can do for a good part of the run, the turbo cars slowly build and surpass the power of the blowers/nitrous as the turbos spin faster/generate more boost which means they can add more gas. That's really the point of the power adders. More air means more gas means more explosion means faster car. I chance to bet that the Proline Hemi can't do 5k HP with a blower or nitrous or it would explode with the instant power application. Turbos nicely caress an engine faster and faster as the exhaust of the engine gets higher and higher so the faster you go, the faster you can go. And yes I'm a turbo guy...unlike Prochargers and screw blowers(which can steal 150HP from an engine just to spin them because the engine itself has to power them), turbos are run from the exhaust. It's like having your cake and eating it too. Burn your fuel and THEN you use the exhaust from that burned fuel to spin the turbos faster and faster to push more air into your engine so you can burn even more fuel and make even more exhaust. It uses next to no HP from your engine and by the end of a race, as the man said, you could be putting 80 pounds of boost in your engine with a turbo. 80 pounds of boost from a Blower? The first three lines of seating at a race event would be catching hot pieces of aluminum and trying to juggle them until they cooled down when the engine blew up. Enough nitrous into an engine to general 80 pounds of oxygen(nitrous breaks down mostly into pure oxygen when you heat it. They spray as much as an engine will allow into the engine and hope it doesn't burn something or burst a burst plate or just plain blow the intake off the top of the car. If they did 80 pounds worth of boost off the hit and it would both heat the cylinders/plugs to like 1500 degrees AND THEN it would explode parts into the first three rows of seating. Maybe people could play "try not to get burned by the spark plugs now sitting in their hands". WHEW sorry for the book. There's probably some inaccuracies or outright lies in there but it's most of the science for you.

Agreed that guy really knows his stuff

Eric has brought on and opened up the industry to RVW and this kind of power from an engine. He came from racing junk small blocks to this. Truly an amazing story of where him and Steve petty started.

Thanks Omar! Couldn't do it without people like Eric jumping in and sharing their knowledge and experience too :) - Taz.

@@hpa101 can't wait for more in depth video's keep em coming bro 🤙🏼🤙🏼🤙🏼

Thanks Kaisuhina! The team enjoys creating them too. You can pretty much learn at least one new piece of knowledge from anyone, but I think I'm up to about 15 from Eric haha Keep an eye out for the next release and feel free to share this one here for now if you feel like it 😎- Taz 👨🏻

Andre is the chap in front of the camera, but we'll take the compliment! Glad you enjoyed the video :) - Taz.

try closer to 11-12,000 hp 1 car last year had a theoretical hp of closer to 15k. No dyno ive seen can take that so its basically just calculations at that point

The issues always gonna be putting it down

I remember in Pomana a record was broken, inofficial, of 314mph.....crowd went Nuts..... Now the tracks are 300 feet shorter.... 340 mph!??!?!? Insane....

In 94 that was... Forgot to mention

@Mr. Morningstar i think you missed the part about them doing that speed with a 300ft shorter track.

It's all about the short block

He has an impressive wealth of knowledge - Taz.

kyleshady21 incorrect sir . They use billet AJE block and heads ( which they suggested and R&D’d the inadequacies)

Ha your funny

AJPE is in the cylinder head not the valve cover you engine genius.

Alan Johnson.... Isn't that the guy way down yonder by the Chattahoochee?

@@ablejohnson738 lol ! I'll bite...... It's Allen Jackson! Lol!

Glad it was helpful!

Cheers for watching! Still have a bunch to come from PRI so keep an ear our ;) - Taz.

Thanks Wayne =) - Taz.

@Malcolm Reynolds motorsport has never been cheap - Taz.

Steve morris is just about right there with pro line competition makes for some better products that's for sure.

@@JCA-Z more creates more! People forget that sometimes - Taz.

@@JCA-Z I 💯 percent agree with SM motors they are definitely just as good or even better!

@Malcolm Reynolds What game? They aren't racing for free. You can always bracket race doesn't take as much power. There is also Factory Stock, Coyote Stock, LS Stock, Hemi Stock, etc, etc. In the V8 world you have choices. Nobody is holding a gun to your head saying you must run Pro Mod/Top Sportsman.

That Hemi with a twin turbo alcohol efi setup.starts at 106K.

Our pleasure Bill, glad you enjoyed it =D - Taz.

Hopefully you've got a full tube chassis and bulletproof drivetrain, otherworldly you're gonna have a bad time. Or, you can just do 400 mph wheelspeed burnouts

Bill Welter but crap at drag week. Try doing 10miles let alone 1000miles. Just crap. There are 5000hp cars doing drag week.

Nor Dic Crap! That’s bullshit! Proline have dominated the competition, shit your lazy uneducated mouth.

and stevie fast sometimes after only 15 passes

No only up to 4400hp at the moment. But more control and reliability means faster runs.

The basic architecture is still 426 HEMI. From the bore spacing, to the intake/exhaust spacing, the dual shaft rockertrain, plug location, chamber shape, pan rail, distributor location, cross-bolted mains, etc., etc. The ONLY engine that plays in this league that still maintains that many similarities to the original design. The 481X, that's commonly referred to as the "chevy" style engine, is a FAR cry from the BBC platform in every respect.

Not a single part of ANY race engine is from the original manufacturer, but the HEMI architecture is FAR closer to it's original design than ANY of the other makes, including the 481X.

Man that's a huge compliment mate! Thanks! I miss it too - Taz

No it's billet, Nitro Burner technology funny guy.

Someone has made carbon rods but I think it was for the Coyote platform and I don't think it's for this power level. I wonder if there's carbon rods that can handle this power level out there yet

@@02honeydew heres the article about the LS carbon fiber rods: www.lsxmag.com/tech-stories/engine/naimo-composites-developing-ls-carbon-fiber-connecting-rods/

02honeydew will the heat fatigue the carbon rod?

@@cantho11 I'm sure it will depending upon temp but I'm not expert for sure. That's why I'm thinking maybe for this level of racing it may be good because from what little I understand about race fuels, they tend to burn at much lower temp so it should reduce over all engine temp during the combustion cycle at lease (I think) and keep the rods safer running ridiculous power levels like he was saying. I'm definitely not an expert but hopefully we start seeing more carbon rods in the near future and see what they can do.

@@von... Not the original rods I had seen before but I really like that someone is taking the initiative to start the technology for a targeted market that doesn't feel like wasting money buying a Lamborghini just to experience this stuff. Really exciting.

I like the potential with this idea. I dont see why not unless the vibrations will crack the carbon fiber.

Or melt the shit out of it when the sleeve heats up.

Believe that was a SBC thing

@@zuestoots5176 I've done it on my 638" turbo'd Keith Black, it's really a HP versus torque decision.

Lmao

emdec55 Good. At least Aussies respect the language 🇬🇧🇦🇺

@@hoonaticbloggs5402 Americans don't need to have "respect" for "the language", they have their own way of saying things, just like Aussies. In fact, "aluminium" came after "aluminum", and both came before "alumium". If you wanted to be strict about things, you're pronouncing it wrong. Australians are actually using the most deviated version of it because they've followed the English.

@@hoonaticbloggs5402 "Roi-spect 'nd spoike proi-Phah Oing-glish, yah facking Americore! Oi Oi Oi Oi Oi Oi Oi Oi! 'STRAYA, 'STRAYA, 'STARYA, M8TY!!!!"

Felix as an Ozzie I can understand most of the American language.

The tunes will be constantly changed or adapted to the car/track variables. Check out the 11,000hp TF pro mods that people like Scotty Palmer are playing around with now. I think I have yet to see a full solid pass happen in one of those cars. With race engine technology getter better, and higher and higher HP these days.... like your question implies, how are these guys going to solve the power to ground issues?... Good question, and most relevant. Tom Bailey seems to have a good handle on that with his cars @ 4000-5000 hp, but as HP increases so will traction issues. It'll boil down to IF ever or WHEN and under what conditions you tune it to allow full power to hit the wheels during a run.

Not from us in one single video sorry. We probably have that across multiple videos although they won't all be exactly the same when it comes to different cars in different classes. Sorry I couldn't help you on that one - Taz.

@@hpa101 thank you

Ok yeah, I’m drinking beer and meant to say near...you got me!

Of course billet heads.... Big Block

Anthony Thomas sounds more than I can handle. I'll smack up a single cam 6

@@dj4monie nothing that you said makes any sense. I think the real difference in ability between the LS and Hemi architecture comes down to chamber shapes. If the Hemi does in fact flow more c.f.m. per liter, it would surely be due to this. Both engine types have machined billet heads

The hemi Mopar head is of a cross flow design...the LS head is an inline, or what is commonly a "reverse flow" design, that is, the intake/exhaust charge has to change direction as it moves across the piston in the chamber. With the Mopar hemi type or a cross flow type head, the charge goes straight thru. The result here, is that the hemi yields a much higher level of volumetric efficiency, hence the hemi design will also be able to create far higher levels of horsepower. The LS is OK, but is not in the same league as the hemi..

Alcohol I believe.

Never read anything about "shitty" reputation. Just over priced, that company being NRE. Which I would assume is the only reason why most people don't gravitate towards proprietary technology. But Garrett turbos just released a line of "reverse spin" turbines in the recent year or so, but haven't seen a lot of people use these in the public market place.

Garrett has mirror image turbos now I believe.

Nobody fast runs anything NRE products. Tina pierce is the only person I know that runs his turbos. NRE has a bad rep.

bad rep how? Unreliability or bad service? I haven't seen any actual customer make a notable post on forums or youtube claiming something horrible. I've heard critics say the same thing about bad rep on Steve Morris builds and other notable turbo tuners, yet, no major real world facts surrounding any notable problems. Did this Tina Pierce person claim any issues?

Themayseffect It was his customer service after the sale. People couldn’t get tech support from him. I saw a one or two complaints on yellow bullet. Honestly though just look at dragweek, any no prep, Donald longs radials races and tell me how many racers you see with NRE equipment. I haven’t come across any complaints on Steve Morris and his motors but he just rode with a customer in drag week and won first place in big tire or whatever the top category was at drag week.

I agree

I think he has a proline In The crow already I think it's the 481x 572 ci twin turbo set up. Dont think it's this 1 though.

It's based on the 1964 426ci HEMI engine with 4.800 bore spacing.

Not going to happen www.quora.com/What-are-the-benefits-and-disadvantages-of-using-an-automotive-engine-block-cast-of-Titanium

@@kalashnikovcortez1380 what about billet ?

Even a solid billet 6Al4v, called grade 5 titanium, would never be as hard as a steel block. Titanium has a yeild strength of 150kpsi heat treated and hardness of about Rockwell 39c. That's about as hard as stainless cutlery. A billet d2 tool steel block however has a yield strength of over 230kpsi and a surface hardness of up to Rockwell 62c when heat treated. Even annealed it is still nearly as hard and tough as titanium at its maximum. The problem with steel is the weight and with titanium is the tooling to cut it and the cost. Aluminum that they use for these blocks in nowhere near as strong, only 23kpsi yield, it is much more walkable, much easier to marching, has a density 60% that of titanium and 40% that of steel and takes shapes better.because it can be cut after.heat treatment. Both titanium and steel would have to be.heat treated after machining and would probably not survive the kiln. There as very few aluminum engine blocks that have iron or steel bedplates that are a main bearing girdle that the headstuds anchor into as well. There are several exotic aluminum alloys that really come close to 100kpsi yield but they suffer the same fate as titanium. Harder to marching, hard to weld, not as dimensionally stable at temperature. Even before the exotic materials ban, take a look at what f1 used for engine blocks and it will be some aerospace aluminum alloy billet block and maybe forged head but prob billet. It just works, and works well.

Surprisingly, Jeff Lutz jnr looks nothing like his Dad. He's twice the size

Heads to big

Peter Southern Boy nope. 4V beats 2V anyday of the week. Why do you reckon 2.5L 4cyl cars can have 3000hp ?

Nor Dic though the 4 valve chamber is typically a hemi design too.

@@nordic5490 boo 2v is the fastest. There no 4v that make 8,000hp

Not sure, but I think it's running alcohol instead of Nitro.

KsD Hobbies hardly. 2.5L 4 cylinder cars are running 140psi and 3000hp now. The 2 valve head is holding it back.

@@nordic5490 really weres the video? I dnt think so

@@nordic5490 hey, so throw 140 psi at this thing and see what she does! Lol also have to remember, it's 85 psi to make 5,200hp to the wheel, not the crank. Probably closer to 6,000 HP to the crank. So I'd say double the psi at 140 psi on a 4 cylinder to make half the power seems realistic lol.

this engine in a street car at about 2000hp would last a long fucking time. Good oil and no racing, i bet it would make 100k or better in a road driving car.

I'll rent one of the other cylinders off you if I can also take another as a garage space 😎 - Taz.