Pull High or Get Under Fast? Snatch & Clean Timing

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Pull High or Get Under Fast? This common question is a problem because it implies those are the only two options.
First, we’re always trying to get under the bar as quickly as possible-that’s never been a debate. The pull under the bar should always be maximal effort and speed, even with the lightest weights.
The issue is with this idea of “pulling the bar high”-the way this is typically phrased is unclear, and how it’s interpreted is all over the place.
Bottom line: we need to accelerate the bar upward maximally, to achieve at least the minimum elevation and upward momentum that allows us the time and space to move under the bar. Regardless of how fast you’re able to pull under, there must be a certain amount of acceleration and elevation when you begin to be successful-if that’s confusing, just consider how much you can tall snatch or clean.
Accelerating the bar up maximally is NOT the same thing as pulling or elevating the bar as high as possible.
We need to hit maximal productive extension-the extension that produces maximal upward acceleration on the bar, which is what will give us the elevation and momentum needed to get under it. After this degree of extension, even though we would gain more elevation on the bar if we continued to pull up, we lose the speed necessary to take advantage of it and it becomes less effective.
Like the drive of a jerk, where exactly this maximal speed is reached varies among athletes, but it will always be close to straight knees and the hips extended enough to bring the shoulder at least slightly behind the hip, except in rare cases in the snatch, and more commonly in cleans, in which it’s possible for some athletes to get adequate acceleration earlier because of the comparatively small demand for elevation.
Finishing the pull doesn’t mean doing a high-pull; it means completing productive extension rather than cutting the pull off short and trying to sneak under the bar before you’ve achieved the necessary acceleration-it means you’re pulling the bar correctly for maximal effectiveness.
So the answer is simple: finish productive extension for maximal upward acceleration, and use that acceleration to change directions and pull under as fast as possible.
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Опубликовано:

16 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 24

@rosska99 4 месяца назад

For me, this is one of your most helpful videos. I'm pretty old(58) to be learning Olympic lifting and very tall with a long torso. Seeing the examples with your narration is so beneficial. My coach and I use them and we will for sure look at this one together. Thanks!

@deolax1 4 месяца назад

Finally some logic and coherent rhetoric to this non-issue that only chaotic chorus by "experts" has turned into a nightmare: first pull, second pull, high pull, first acceleration, second acceleration, full extension, etc. It never ends. Now, we have something simple -- maximal productive acceleration. Accelerate the bar and get under it quickly.

@gm1799 4 месяца назад

You always seem to drop the video i need. My training is stagnating right now because I've been using the pull high or get under fast cues. When I focus on pulling high, i have no time to get under the bar really and end up power clean or snatch. When i try to get under fast, i end up under pulling, more noticeably on my clean. The more successful lifts I've had were when i focused more on aggression as an active cue. Typically, for me, it leads to a better extension as well as better pressure against the bar in the bottom position, putting me into a better position to stand up the lift. Once i get my training schedule consistent again, i think i could make some good progress.

@CatalystAthletics 4 месяца назад

This one may help too - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-YNukHfSPox8.html

@lactran2979 4 месяца назад

My coach always tells me, "Don’t try to squat down after finishing the extension. When you start to execute a snatch, just think about doing a power snatch." It works but a full triple extension and closed bar are required.😅

@Gusativo 4 месяца назад

Would you say there's a rule of thumb to how much height you need to produce to potentially make the lift? I don't know, something like "if you can pull the bar at least to belly-button height, you may be able to make a clean, if your technique is on point"?

@pistolpete7777 4 месяца назад

Charniga has written, "navel for clean and bottom of sternum for snatch"...obviously, top class lifters find the minimal bar height needed, as soon as possible

@CatalystAthletics 4 месяца назад

You can find actual heights in various literature, but that's virtually useless for a couple reasons: first, because your particular proportions will influence that number, along with factors like how much speed you're able to generate, how quickly you can change directions, and how quickly you can move under. Moreover... are you going to measure while lifting? You can get a bar far higher than needed to actually snatch or clean it during a pull even with weights considerably beyond what you can snatch/clean, so even though you can "measure" more easily in that situation, it doesn't mean a lot.

@TheTadeass 4 месяца назад

Hey Greg, I hope it's okay to ask this here. Your lifter snatching from high hang at 1:20 in the video shifts his weight towards the inside edges of his feet and then caves his knees (especially the right one) in slightly. Seems to me from the slow mo that this foot/knee/hip inward movement happens right as he initiates the second pull. The same thing has been a problem for me since I've started lifting - I can squat with my knees out all day long no problem, but in dynamic movements (the classic lifts and jumps) my body always shifts into the same position your lifter is in at 1:23. I've tried many things to fix this (slower pulls with focus on knee tracking, hip mobility, probably half a million banded clamshells) and while it got a lot better over the years, I can't seem to get rid of it completely. Do you have any advice here? Thanks a ton

@CatalystAthletics 4 месяца назад

He was a pro FB center, so he spent years being coached to have toes way out and knees in on the field... In your case, definitely add some adductor strength work 2-3 days/wk at least, and you can also try doing some depth drops and jumps focusing on stabilizing the hip. Keep doing the lateral hip work as well, and be sure to do unilateral leg/hip work like split squats, 1-leg RDL etc. Adductor exercises (select "Adductors" tag) - www.catalystathletics.com/exercises/section/13/Accessory-LowerWhole-Body/ Depth drop - www.catalystathletics.com/exercise/550/Depth-Drop/ Depth jump - www.catalystathletics.com/exercise/551/Depth-Jump/

@TheTadeass 4 месяца назад

@@CatalystAthletics Thanks Greg, I really appreciate you taking the time to respond. We've never tried the depth drop/jump approach to address this with my coach, I will try it coupled with the unilateral hip work and adductor work and see in a few months. I have no clue how to repay you if it works out, but I am gonna. Thanks again.

@Mikey__R 3 месяца назад

I'm new to all of this. I realised my problem is that I can't do a full clean with light weight, the bar comes up too high. If I try to to not lift the bar too high, I can't get hip contact. And so, every clean is a power clean, and I can't see any way to progress to a full clean without doing myself a mischief lifting weights I've no business attempting.

@Ivan_Tea. 4 месяца назад

Nice!

@denisbeaulieu5600 4 месяца назад

tnank you

@robtakano Месяц назад

Vertical bar speed becomes bar height.

@danielkopaee4447 4 месяца назад

how do you read my mind greg

@pistolpete7777 4 месяца назад

I believe there was an old Russian study, saying the bar height in a snatch was actually higher than in a snatch pull. Something along those lines

@CatalystAthletics 4 месяца назад

That would depend on a number of things... for example, whether or not you're doing a high-pull or intentionally preventing any arm bend. But that's also not the point here - the ultimate height of the bar in a snatch or clean is achieved while the lifter is moving down, ie not during the phase in which they're actively "lifting" or "pulling".

@pistolpete7777 4 месяца назад

@@CatalystAthletics right, thats what im saying. The very act of pulling under imparts more upwards height(bc of more acceleration like u said). U get more height out of pulling under than u do pulling up. Contrary to commom belief

@JD-et6yo 4 месяца назад

@@pistolpete7777 I think there's a misunderstanding here. Greg said "the ultimate height of the bar", which is NOT the same as "the maximum possible height of the bar". Regardless, the winner is the competitor who snatches most, so it ultimately doesn't matter whether the final bar height is higher in the snatch or the high pull, what matters is the kg on the bar on a successful lift.

@pistolpete7777 4 месяца назад

@@JD-et6yo top lifters find MINIMAL bar height ASAP. Simple as that. Limit sn/cl have to happen so fast, ANY thought of "lifting bar higher" is slow and a miss period. This has already been known for decades it is not complicated

@JD-et6yo 4 месяца назад

@@pistolpete7777 You have, once again, misinterpreted both what Greg said AND what I said. So this time, instead of trying to write authoritatively, drop your ego and actually stop, read properly and patiently, and use your brain. NOTHING I've written here suggests that I was unaware of efficient technique being a product of achieving minimum bar height required to successfully make the lift. This is obvious, every rookie lifter knows this. We've ALL read the old national Russian weightlifting manuals, they're all downloadable online for free. Every enthusiast and their mother has read them. You commented that a Russian study found that bar height in the snatch was higher than in the snatch pull. Greg said you're MISSING THE POINT of the vid. Instead of taking the time to reflect and think "hmm I wonder what I got wrong, i'll re-examine" you decided to try to correct him, looking like a buffoon. I'm experiencing second-hand embarrassment at your attempts to come off as knowledgeable in this topic. "Top lifters find MINIMAL bar height ASAP" Well fucking duh, we're all aware of that. It's also utterly besides the point. Which seems to be something you do as a habit.

@brianlizotte1216 4 месяца назад

no such thing as tonewoods lol

@a-s7623 4 месяца назад

Tian Tao 233 clean bar doesnt move from floor and smashes herself to floor, while Shi clean goes to the sky like a rocket and caught in a quarter position, we should learn the best for our anatomy or flexibility too?