Pyro's Melee Problem [TF2] 

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You actually missed a pretty important "stat" on the back scratcher: the crossbow isn't considered a medic healing source, so you still get full healing from it. It still makes you a worse pocket but a decent medic player should be aware of this and crossbow you when you need healing and don't just want to build uber. Edit: Since it's being brought up a lot in the replies, yes you build uber faster which is great, but you are not an ideal healing target during combat since that's where it's most important to keep your healing output as high and consistent as possible. Sorry if I was a bit unclear!

Im shocked that a spy main doesn't like the homewrecker

I too agree removing cloak drain penalty from your eternal reward would fix this issue with pyro

"Homewrecker is bad because Spy's biggest counter is teamwork"

Pyro's melee problem is pretty similar to the problem medic's primaries have, where you really shouldn't be using them for damage at all, so once toy add a non-combat use to one of them it becomes so much better then the other ones.

The homewrecker part just screams spy main

Pyro is my favorite class. Spy is also my favorite class. Everyone hates me equally and I hate myself just the same.

"Homewrecker sounds more like a middle finger to spies" Exactly! What's not to love?

"It feels less like a new way to play pyro and more like a middle finger to spies" Even better.

Finally, someone else who also likes the backscratcher

Axtinguisher Crits for days, those where the days...

You said pyro a nice 10 times in this video. Also, I like the Homewrecker just because it breaks my heart to see a dead or distracted engi’s buildings being sapped and not being able to do anything to stop it.

"The homewrecker is a big middle finger to spy" Yes. Spies dying mad = fun

"Feels more like a middle finger to spies." Good. That's the reason I equipped it to begin with. I main engi and medic So when I do choose pyro, I'm already not intending to let spies have fun while I'm protecting my team.

This man talking bout balance and I'm listening to the background hollow knight music

Not gonna lie, the Powerjack just feels like a giant middle finger to every other Pyro melee. It's like the Gru, except it costs absolutely nothing

The Home Wrecker probably exists because apparently, in the lore, the engineer is the only one who doesn't dislike pyro like the other characters (except maybe Ms. Pauling) Plus, if the spy is sapping, the engineer is probably already dead and can't remove the sapper himself, so doing that for him is a good deed.

As a pyro main, my favourite is the postal pummeler because you can do some cool tricks with it and its superior to the axtinguisher in every way

Yes, please, I hate having to use the l’etranger to make up for extra cloak drain

I just enjoy being a pybro for my engies.

"Gives me conniptions" fucking killed me and i dont even play dark souls

The neon annihilator is a weird weapon, where the usefulness depends on what map you're playing on. On maps with common water like pier, banana bay, and powerhouse, this thing is pretty viable, and det jumping at an enemy in water is one of my favorite things to do on those maps. I think that it's fine as is, we just need more maps with water

An engineer (who died in a fight) once told me "Pyro I love you" after I removed a sapper on his dispenser. Being a pybro was the only love I ever gotten online and I'll never unequip it

"completely invalidating any work you put into destroying a nest" meanwhile, engie mains: sappers are unfair because they completely invalidate any work you put into building a nest

"Da homewrecker is bad cuz it's a middle finger to spies" ... Why, Yes, that's why i love it

I think the homewreaker is meant to be a last resort, like when there is no engineers around a nest and the owner gets a stab and sap, it's meant to be when the engineer is dead and there is a sapper on the buildings

God I want to crit some kiddos again... Valve bring my baby back 💗

"Feels like a middle finger to spy"... I LOVE THAT

durrbil: "Pyro is a short range class" Sni-ros: **muffling in flames exploit**

durrbill: **Uses Hollow Knight OST in the video** Me: Ah, i see you're a man of culture as well

I appreciate the HK and Yume 2kki music

The Hollow Knight music is great!

I just want the neon annihilator to combo with the gas passer. That wouldn't even make either weapon truly viable, it'd just make them each more fun.

1:56 one of the most badass sequences I´ve seen

I can't lie arguing that the homewrecker annoys spy mains only made me want to use it more.

I feel like it’s important to say how important the building damage on the homeWRECKER is. (I mean it’s in the name) it’s one of the only strong counters to a wrangled sentry gun and you’re able to two-shot a level 2, or burst through a tanked sentry as your team spams it. That’s not mentioning the ability to one-shot teleporters and quickly dispatch dispensers. Something that would require much more team coordination or time to do. I run Axtinguisher for any problematic players that you can quickly burst down but the SECOND a good Uncle Dane appears, the homeWRECKER is on, im running detonator and saddling up some sentries. It’s so strangely satisfying and consistent, it feels odd it was glossed over in a video about Pyro’s melee. Anyway, lovely video friend :D

Used to love the Axtinguisher back during the puff n sting days, tho i haven't tried it out much since then. Might give it another shot tho.

I think the homewrecker is supposed to be some kind of last ditch resort if a pyro cant kill a spy before they get a sapper on the sentry, or if a spy falls from an out of reach area from pyro and attaches a sapper, or if there are so many engineers and so many buildings being sapped at once that they can’t handle it all *which happens a lot,* and jag engineers are especially weaker against sappers, but if your team has no engineer or the enemy team has no spy, you’re better off using literally anything else

It’s SO NICE for someone to finally point out how borderline unfair the homewrecker is for spy. Successfully stab and sap the engie even when he has a pyro with him? Who cares that you just outsmarted two players, one of which is your direct counter, flamey boi has a sledgehammer!

Agree with most of what you said, except for the part about the Homewrecker. I think it's absolutely fine. (And please remove the YER's cloak drain rate penalty pls Vovo)

So in a nutshell: Sad spy main noises*

6:14 homewracker is not about you sitting with your engie, spychecking and destroying sappers, it's about those situations when engie is either dead, or not there and you are walking by his nest/teleporter/etc. You can both kill spy, and save his buildings until he returns from the grave/somewhere else.

I still think the neon annihilator is underrated. On maps that do have water it can be helpful, and being able to remove sappers make it still have some use if you can't get anyone in the right position. Also the volcano fragment isn't the worst weapon in the game, that award goes to the gas passer.

"2 things you don't want to rely on when using a weapon" I mean, spy relys almost entirely on the 2nd one. No I'm not saying that he isn't argubaly the weakest class in the entire game

I use the Nyan Cat Annihilator as a sort of bait-and-switch. "Oh you're extinguishing yourself with jarate/mad milk or running into water?" "it would be a shame if someone were to" "instant kill you." I also use it to take out sappers on the off chance the engineer can't get to his buildings.

"the homewreaker just feels like a middle finger to spies" yeah that's why its used

Let me be honest here,as a fellow engi main,almost all the complaints I get from my pybro using the homewrecker are from solo spies that never coordinate with his team. Sure,a pyro kills spies very fast,but a heavy mows down pyros even faster.

Backscratcher is underappreciated, IMO. When I'm playing on small maps, it is my go-to instead of the powerjack. If you can end up using the enemy's health packs instead of your team's, all the better. On something like KOTH harvest, I think it is the perfect companion for a backburner pyro who makes his home in the enemy building. Add in the panic attack and you are ready to murder scouts rounding blind corners and snipers looking the other way.

“The most useless weapon in the game” No, that’s Pyro’s OTHER worst weapon in the game, the gas passer.

lmao the yume 2kki music at the end. nice

Who are you? You got recommended to me. And I was somehow subscribed.

Quickly becoming one of my favorite tf2bers! Keep it up!

Love your videos! Regarding the homewrecker/maul, its useful if your engineer dies to snipers, spies, or caught vulnerable by other classes. It makes spies unable to do anything to the engie nest unless BOTH you and the engie die.

love how a solid 90% of the comments on this video are "I'm bad at engineer and keep dying to the weakest class in the game, so I need pyro to (Verbremoved) my (Nounremoved) even though this class is already weak as fuck and doesn't need so many counters"

This is fantastic in concept alone, tf2bers are constantly complaining about stock, but none of them will address why, so newer players won't be able to tell a bad weapon from a good one in the future. Wonderful job. Edit: it's like the saying "give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime". If you say that a weapon (say, the fire axe, for example) is bad or useless, then new players in particular will simply not use that stock because "I was told it was bad" and then play medic half an hour later and use the syringe gun and homes as. If you address why weapons are bad, new players will begin to look at stats on their own and be able to tell by themselves. (Did that make sense?)

I feel like, conceptually, the Neon Annihilator is the broader "teamwork" melee, given not just its sapper removal, but its ability to combo with Jarate and Mad Milk, meaning it also pairs well with Scouts and Snipers using those. I feel like they should lean into that idea to improve it

Literally took 4 seconds of the video for me to be like "he's using Hollow Knight music"

Pyro mains watching this video just PepeLaugh-ing while the "crying about homewrecker" segment goes on

"The homewrecker feels more like a middle finger to spies" yes, thats why i use it

As a medic main, I must say that the backscratcher is my favorite

The way you weaved around the enemy and then a pyro just spun around a bit and set you on fire truly breaks the heart

1:58 There's no way in the world the soldier didn't shit himself

5:38 look mom I got a killstreak

I keep the homewrecker in my back pocket for one reason, I kill the spy but somehow the spy killed the engineer. Sure the other melees are grand and wonderful but honestly I find myself near engineers when I play so I always keep it on hand if the need arises

I like how pyro has a melee that counters a class he already hard counters which also happens to be the weakest class in the entire game

The best thing is pocketing a hot hand pyro, and ubering them into a sentry gun

Random crit'ing soldiers who would otherwise survive with the back scratcher and instantaneously sending them to the shadow realm is so fucking fun

maybe when you do video like this in the future, you could show a weapons stat card. it would clarify a lot more about the weapons. otherwise a good video!

4:59 Be careful durrbill your spy main is showing.

5:22 ngl that sound gave me dopamine

3:45 well the gas passer is an even worse version of this weapon

Thank you for addressing my suffering that is the homewrecker. (Spy main)

Thanks for recommending the Powerjack, didn’t know Spy Mains hated that weapon ;)

The neon gets really annoying when THOSE DAMN PYRO SHARKS gets a hold of the weapon

0:28 Holy shit guys that's me! I'm that heavy! that's so cool!

In regards to the homewrecker, it's pretty effective at taking out wrangled sentries or sentries that are currently being repaired due to the extra dmg to buildings. Often times the flamethrower wouldn't be able to destroy a sentry fast enough and since by that point you are basically at melee range, the homewrecker can easily eliminate the amount of time needed to focus on one thing.

hey i was in that pier game i didn't really do anything except ask if you had yt and even then that was just bc your name sounded familiar lol. good stuff as always

1:35 Soldier grabs full health pack, gets his crocket reflected back the frame it comes out, and dies *I'm crying, this is such a beautiful sight*

I find the homewrecker is more of a way to deal with spy that pulls off a stab and sap. Spray the spy with flames and try to save buildings.

Another great video man, hope you keep growing and growing.

Honestly I think all of them are pretty fine for once, pyro really only had 1 bad melee weapon

Sometimes I find that the term stock upgrade, actually doesn’t describe a situation good enough, because now that so many things have been added, I believe that truly, the more accurate term would be something like: an upgrade above the average melee for [whichever class]. This is because in some ways, stock has become outdated, and even if not outdated, redundant at least. I think we’ve reached a point where “stock upgrade” shouldn’t immediately mean over powered. That being said, it’s a useful bar for comparison. Sorry if this tangent wasn’t really related to the video, I hope it’s a bit relevant tho.

I love any weapon that gives the spies a middle finger, and also hammer time

Cool vid but the part where you were talking about the “home wrecker” you said something along the lines of “the home wrecker is really annoying to enemy spies” and that’s a bad thing, well the hole point of spy is to be annoying to the enemy team, so the home wrecker is like a taste of spies own medicine aka being annoying to an already annoying class. Plus, engis do so much to help you that the only right thing is to help them. That’s all I have to say, I’m not trying to be mean but that’s just what I wanted to say.

Great video as always :D but Back scracher can actually Build uber AND downside can be delete with critheals but still this can hurt

didn't expect to find pyro in the fungal wastes

Third degree is not the only straight upgrade from stock in the game. Holiday punch exists

Pyro doesn't really need a good meele. The only meele people use is the powerjack and homewrecker, which they don't use for damaging people. The flamethrower is tactically a meele weapon. So it makes sense that pyro doesn't have as good meeles as scout with his fish.

Man if only there was a mod that had fixed all the issues you mentioned and was available to play right now... Balancemod.TF

I love the sharpened volcano fragment

that homewrecker segment is true, if you DONT have the dragons fury equipped. if you do, youre far less useful in spychecking. so, homewrecker panic button!

i like how tf2 content is barely making a living so ~10 minutes videos elaborating on very specific subjects in this game is what is left to do

I agree with most of this, except I think that the Annihalator is a bit better then you gave it credit for. At the very least its the most effective meme weapon in the game. (Fish is probably funnier but 33 damage go brrr you know)

I think every good weapon of pyro focuses into more specific playstyles. Powerjack? Good for pyros who like to go Fast Neon Ahnihilator? Boosts 2forts meme factor even more. Homewrecker? Boosts pyros ability to make spys ragequit. Axtinguisher? Boost combo Pyro. And funfact, the Volcano fragment can be incredibly funny if you have a scout friend with the Sun-on-a-Stick.

Loved the hollow knight music

I like how this is "power jack good other bad"

Hi :D

Another thing about the homewrecker is that it is useful for removing sappers from teleporters at spawn - often I quickswitch to pyro with the homewrecker if I happen to see a sapped tp right after respawning and remove the sapper, as there is a slight chance that the spy either sapped the tp and simply left it or didn't have a chance to finish the job.

Some changes I think would help out Pyro's melees: Fire Axe (Stock, so changes below are universal unless stated otherwise) - Added: +15% movement speed on wearer while active - Added: Returns 50% of active afterburn you deal as health while active (can't overheal) Gives the stock some utility as a hit-and-run tool, as well as helping to get to fights faster. Axtinguisher - Reworked: Deals crits vs burning enemies instead of minicrits - Reworked: Damage penalty increased from -33% to -55% - Reworked: Base damage vs afterburn duration now set to a minimum of +20, with +5 per extra tick - Added: No movement speed bonus while active - Added: No health returned from afterburn while active Cements its role as a finisher, with stronger damage (base 30 damage, minimum 150 crit, maximum 285 crit) for that nice crit dopamine rush. Homewrecker - Added: +50% damage and knockback resistance vs sentries while active I don't think the sapper bonus is bad, honestly, since you won't always immediately know where a Spy is and the Engineer might not be around to save their buildings. This would give the item some offensive use, though! Powerjack - Removed: +15% movement speed on wearer while active (stock change makes this redundant) - Removed: +25 health on kill - Removed: 20% damage vulnerability on wearer while active - Added: On kill, gain half the non-afterburn damage you dealt to your victim in the last 5 seconds as health - Added: +15 health on hit - Added: No health returned from afterburn while active The Powerjack now gets a new role as a finisher, pairing well with the minimal-afterburn Degreaser in its set. Back Scratcher - Added: No health returned from afterburn while active Already covered by the health pack bonus, but extra speed helps with roaming. Sharpened Volcano Fragment - Added: +100% health returned from afterburn while active Gives it an edge over other melees for the hit-and-run tactic and makes for stronger utility, guaranteeing +80 health on hit. Third Degree - Reworked: Damage vs players connected by medigun beams is guaranteed to crit - Added: On hit, steal overheal from your victims - Added: No health returned from afterburn while active - Added: -25 max health on wearer Gives it an edge in taking down pockets, while also having an actual downside Neon Annihilator - Reworked: Damage vs wet players includes gassed enemies - Added: Meters on wearer charge 50% faster - Added: Movement speed bonus only applies while wet Now pairs with the Gas Passer and helps build it faster for more consistent use. Hot Hand - Added: +10% movement speed while active (stacks with stock change) - Reworked: Speed boost on hit now lasts for two seconds The Hot Hand gets to be the new Powerjack, since it kinda sucks at everything else.